Are they  hypnotized?

This vid appeared on my Youtube feed.

30% indoctrinated, 40% just going along, and us, 25 to 30% unindoctrinated who must unite if the delusion is to be defeated.

Also explains why highly intelligent and well educated people are falling for it.

Interesting thesis: Is the madness we are seeing a result of people trying to treat themselves for meaninglessness, anxiety and lack of connection to others? Are all the ritualistic stupidities, mask wearing outside, enforcing vaccines upon people for whom there is zero or less than zero benefit, the karening, the excessive lockdowns, are they a psychological phenomenon of people looking to create a social group?

Mass formation:

The relationship between the phenomenon of ‘mass formation’ (Massenbildung) and the production and circulation of ideologies is examined. The explanation of the said relationship must take into account both the social dimension as well as the intrapsychic structure of the ideological. To achieve this a brief review of Freud’s ideas on group psychology and of some definitions of ideology, namely those proposed by Ricoeur, Althusser and Habermas is expounded. In the same way as the understanding of the vicissitudes of identification is crucial to gain insight into ‘mass formation’, the investigation of the processes of idealization is vital to the understanding of the ideological.

M Hernandez

If this is correct, what does it mean for getting out of this insanity? If these mandates are satisfying some psychological need in a mass of the people, how in the name of Satan’s two pronged todger can we escape?

62 thoughts on “Are they  hypnotized?”

  1. Rabzsays:
    October 2, 2021 at 5:42 pm Edit

    ..
    The percentages are interesting. The hypnotised are a minority. But the 40% who go along to get along are a problem. To defeat this, we, the 30% minority who in one way or another see through it, have to unite on this one issue in order to begin chipping away at the increasingly absurd illusions.
    We can have all the trucks vs trains and “How dare you demand I go to the cenotaph” ding dongs we want, but we must find a way to unify on the important point: THIS INSANITY MUST STOP.


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  2. Just now read this story, which fits your thesis perfectly Arky, at least regarding the Left. And all the ritual stupidities are coming from the Left.

    Most Trump Supporters Agree It’s ‘Time To Split The Country’: Poll (1 Oct)

    Two notable poll questions with % agreeing by party:

    I have come to view elected officials from the [OPP_PARTY] as presenting a clear and present danger to American democracy.
    Dems: 80%
    Repubs: 84%

    There is no real difference between [Republicans and Fascists/Democrats and Socialists].
    Dems: 56%
    Repubs: 76%

    Which perfectly shows the collective insanity of the Left since the Dems just stole an election, and fascists are clearly leftwing, as any modest examination of history shows. Indeed the current Democrat Party is behaving exactly like fascists, since they have co-opted big business and are going the full totalitarian on vax mandates and etc. I would say the modern Left is a perfect clinical example of Massenbildung, particularly when you add things like mythical thermageddon.


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  3. THIS INSANITY MUST STOP.

    Indeed. We’ve been existing through it for too long.

    It should have never happened in the first place. “Public Education” has a lot to answer for – and yes, I appreciate you did your best within that system, if it could be dignified with such a term.

    I hated the brothers and the monstrous lay weirdos inflicted on my peers in the seventies. But at least they imparted some very important skills upon us. Maths tables, chemistry, Latin, Shakespeare, the histories of the great conflicts across Europe up to and including the soviets. The warning about li’l loud men with preposterous moustaches and their ability to sweet talk a crowd.

    All while St Gough was busy wreaking his own unique brand of havoc.


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  4. The corollary of this is it won’t end.
    For this mass which has formed around this set of delusions, they want this to continue. It’s feeding some need in them.
    We aren’t getting out of it by relying on them fulfilling their stated aims. Their stated aims are an excuse.


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  5. The corollary of this is it won’t end.

    Yep.

    “Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

    ? Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

    I should add that it’s quite biblical too.


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  6. Try doing it for three and a half months and get back to us, Pol.

    I was overjoyed when a female friend of mine said last night that she’s going to head over to my place (regardless of fines and bullying, etc) so I can finally be with another human being, in this li’l cottage in an “LGA of Obsession”. I will cook her dinner and we will enjoy each other’s company. It will be a unique experience, given recent events.

    Taking the little victories where we can find them. 🙂


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  7. I just want to be left alone.

    My sentiment exactly, Dot.
    Unfortunately, here in Victoria it looks as though in future I don’t get any say what goes into my body, unless I want to be a social pariah or hermit.
    So much for the pro-abortionists’ old line, “my body, my choice.”


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  8. Yes, sadly it’s easier for most to take comfort in the hypnotic madness of crowds, than it is to risk the terror of becoming an ‘outcast’ for snapping out of it.

    I recently touched on this in the open thread; how many confuse that terror of being ‘unpersoned’ for base hypocrisy –

    “The thing to take note of is when the regular friends & associates who frequently banter like English Football fans, turn as one against outsiders who dare agree with anything ‘the regulars’ have said.

    It’s never what the outsiders say that enrages the insiders, it’s that the outsiders are an independent, unknown entity who can’t be known or trusted to take a topic in the ultimate direction it’s intended to go.”

    Acknowledging independent thinkers while not knowing where their ideas may take you, means risking being taken ‘outside’ the acceptable thinking of the dominant crowd.


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  9. You’re in Victoria, Arks, which is a separate state of mind in itself.

    Where I am most people I talk to – from the barber to Bunnings – are well and truly over it all.

    Purely anecdotal, but there it is, fwiw..


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  10. I can personally attest to this hypnosis .. I have 4 adult children .. all vaxxed & (were) devotees of GLADYS/DAN .. doing it for the greater good con ..! I’ve now found out that my eldest grandee (14) is already vaxxed ….. & another, who turns, 12 on Monday is booked in for Wednesday .. two different daughters .. my youngest daughter & son also bring it up every, bloody, time I speak to them .. get vaxxed, Dad .. I’m reaching the point off not answering the phone when i see who’s calling!
    73 & fitter & healthier than all 4 but …… it’s for my own good … apparently!


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  11. I do think there’s something in the idea that ppl with particularly vacuous lives are prone to being caught up in mass psychoses. Yes, it gives purpose and meaning to their otherwise dreary lives, but it turns them into religious nutters, in effect. It’s a particularly twisted religion.

    I seem to be immune to all religions, I’m not sure why. Being an antisocial bastard who likes his own company may have something to do with it.

    Watching the Western world go off its chump isn’t new, it’s been doing it for fifty years, it’s currently coming to a predictable climax. There’s not much I can do about it. Trying to convert people to sanity and rationality is a waste of time and energy. Sanity and rationality have never been popular. It’s not particularly popular on the Çat.


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  12. I do think there’s something in the idea that ppl with particularly vacuous lives are prone to being caught up in mass psychoses. Yes, it gives purpose and meaning to their otherwise dreary lives, but it turns them into religious nutters, in effect. It’s a particularly twisted religion.

    I’d suggest it’s an ersatz religion.

    The vacuum left as the West has lost its religion has been filled by the ideology of leftism – a false god – which is where covid totalitarianism derives its followers from.

    It’s also, I think, a very urban phenomenon – the madness of crowds.


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  13. I’d suggest it’s an ersatz religion. The vacuum left as the West has lost its religion has been filled by the ideology of leftism – a false god

    When men stop believing in God they don’t believe in nothing; they believe in anything.

    Chesterton, which I first heard via Mark Steyn.


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  14. I am very grateful for a Catholic education. Quite apart from it being very good, being exposed to indoctrination early makes it easy to recognise later in life.
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  15. Doc
    I’m not nearly as pessimistic about the West as you seem to be. I think we could be entering a golden age in science/technology. If there’s one thing Hiden has done, it’s to support nuclear energy. Opposition to nuclear energy from the left has basically melted away. The UK is progressing with a bunch of smaller, Gen 4 reactors. The medical field, in my opinion, is about to embark of the equivalent of introduction of the internet to the masses we saw in the 90s. thereby causing huge dislocation in a good way.

    Importantly and perhaps something that won’t be reported except in economic history books is the way the large central banks are now conducting monetary policy by them targeting nominal GDP and perhaps seeing very shallow recessions for a long, long time.

    The work week is getting shorter for most people and incomes will continue to rise over the long term.

    Australia though needs to get over this morass of stupidity if we’re going to participate.


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  16. I’d suggest it’s an ersatz religion. The vacuum left as the West has lost its religion has been filled by the ideology of leftism – a false god

    Hmm. Religions tend to improve with age. Early Christianity was full of zealots not too different from the woke mob; see the Hypatia incident.

    I don’t look forward to waiting for leftism to get the rough bits worn off though. Having Jesus Christ instead of Karl Marx as a founder helped a lot.


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  17. zealots

    Tiresome obnoxious shouty bores. See also “Woke” Greenfilth” “Collectivists”.

    Just go and throw yourselves into a volcano and be done with it, FFS. You’ll be flat out trying to find a virgin, given how hopeless you are.


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  18. DrBeauGansays:
    October 2, 2021 at 7:27 pm
    I do think there’s something in the idea that ppl with particularly vacuous lives are prone to being caught up in mass psychoses. Yes, it gives purpose and meaning to their otherwise dreary lives, but it turns them into religious nutters, in effect. It’s a particularly twisted religion.

    I seem to be immune to all religions, I’m not sure why. Being an antisocial bastard who likes his own company may have something to do with it.

    Being comfortable with your own company certainly helps because a major psychological component of religion is the comfort of group identification and submission to authority figures.

    I’m currently reading a book that highlights some differences between the WEIRD(Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, Democratic) and other cultures. WEIRD people are less inclined to bow to authority, to blindly follow beliefs, and are much more individualistic than in other cultures. The decline of religion is partly related to our culture and how it shapes some aspects of our cognition. Religion is declining in the West and the search for substitutes is a search for new guiding stars. Established religions have a rich and long history and the new substitutes cannot possibly match that so for the most part these to be transient until the next thing comes along. People are searching for something else to replace religion. They may find it, they may not, eventually they may realise it is a fool’s errand and learn to enjoy life rather than look for some grand unifying vision, a final theory of everything.

    I’m not sure if anti-social is the right description but certainly with age I feel much less need for company. Perhaps indifference is a better description.


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  19. Thanks for posting this Arky. Very thought provoking.

    If it’s really 30%, then I couldn’t be happier. I thought I was part of 5% max. So, like me, keep yapping away. If it’s reduced to a numbers game, you only have to convince 21% of go-alongerers to speak up too.

    It saddens me that we may have to accept a short term Totalitarianism state as we get there. As the speaker said, it will have to be different to C20th because that model is old and busted and all to easily recognised. It has to be T-ism by stealth. No wonder the teaching of modern history has taken such a hit. It had to in order to produce the place where we are now.

    We saw one aspect played out this week – the political demise of Gulag Glad. Not as firmly entrenched as the Labor leaders which was her great, glaring weakness. The others may not be so lucky.


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  20. The observation about what people post on FB about the ‘non-believers’ is so spot-on.

    Dripping with evil. Many will not age well and I can envisage that there’ll be some serious social media cleansing after people wake up.


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  21. It saddens me that we may have to accept a short term Totalitarianism state as we get there.

    It saddens me that we have to use propaganda in an attempt to snap them out of it.
    Rational discussion should be enough. It doesn’t bode well for the future, as this is not an isolated incident.


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  22. Being comfortable with your own company certainly helps because a major psychological component of religion is the comfort of group identification and submission to authority figures.

    It’s possible to be both. There’s a lot of misconceptions out there about Christianity.

    Corporate worship of God doesn’t mean a predilection to worship everything. Right now we appear to have mass worship of a chemical concoction. Some Christians are being tempted to worship it too. Just like everyone else.

    The interviewee was much less certain about categorising everyone neatly. A very intelligent, thoughtful man.


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  23. Yes, I noticed that. He didn’t flinch from it either.

    English is clearly not his first language. I’ll forgive him for not understanding the nuances and negatives connotations which go with the word. I assumed he meant a barrage of truth bombs.


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  24. I reckon the only thing that will return us to the sanity of competence and freedom will be some really, really bad crisis. Perhaps a proper shooting war, I think the west is already in a soft war with China. I don’t want a war, it will be terrible but it may take something like that to force us back to sanity, when your very existence is under real threat. What a truly terrible position to be in, but climate change, transgenderism, wuflu and all the other bullshit or imaginary things will suddenly become irrelevant.


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  25. Don’t know why so many of you lot insist on having to believe in something. I’m too busy. I know little to nothing of the bible hopefully I will keep it this way. Though I have seen some things I cannot even reasonably explain but thats goes for everyone. Interesting but not something I don’t need to explore. Maybe one day. I live my life pretty much live and let live but don’t go along to get along. I refuse to turn the other cheek. If I’m going to get a flogging I’ll make sure it costs them and maybe they’ll think its not worth it. I don’t belittle your religion if it helps you live your life. Don’t belittle me cause I don’t believe. Just answer me, why do I need to believe?


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  26. I assumed he meant a barrage of truth bombs.

    Yes, Mater.

    And he’s given us a nice, non-partisan one. The term “mass formation”, and the requirement to define it once uttered, is a powerful one.

    I’m going to use it and see what happens.


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  27. Roger says:
    October 2, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    You’re in Victoria, Arks, which is a separate state of mind in itself.

    Where I am most people I talk to – from the barber to Bunnings – are well and truly over it all.

    Purely anecdotal, but there it is, fwiw..

    I find that too, Roger.

    However, 95% of these people who are “well and truly over it” will not fight against it in any way.

    That’s my appraisal. I can count on one hand the number of people (ex this place) who are overtly vocal and not afraid to take on the sanctimony of the mob and sidestep the “rules”.


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  28. Dot says:
    October 2, 2021 at 6:02 pm

    I don’t care. I have contempt for most people now. They get what they #@&*ing deserve…etc.

    I just want to be left alone.

    Dot and shatterzzz

    Same,

    I have 3 Adult Children and their Spouses and Grandkids over 12 are being vaccintaed – I will probaly go with Novavax which is a protein subunit vaccines

    Other subunit vaccines are already in widespread use. Examples include the hepatitis B and acellular pertussis vaccines (protein subunit), the pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine (polysaccharide)

    I have had 3 pneumococcal vaccines, so would feel comfortable with Novavax, and have also been on Anti-Virals for over a year now and have HCQ if I ever get crook (as Thugs Goons Admin have banned Doctors in Australia prescribing Ivermectin) – Living in 3 generation house with 4 adults and Grandkids 7/8/9 – 4/7/9 years, I am the only one who has never had a Covid Test – I am at Hospital every 3 weeks for Bloods with Cancer Immunotherapy the next day – next round 27 and feel totally healthy

    I have had non stop harrassment from all members of my family, with the latest from 16 year old Grandson who has had Pfzier, yesterday by sms converstaion and I ended with “Give up, it gets repetitive saying I will go with Novavax – to each his own – please respect mine”

    I feel I should post this link on Family Facebook, but do not want to upset family

    https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/09/exclusive-summary-covid-19-vaccine-concerns/


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  29. I have had non stop harrassment from all members of my family, with the latest from 16 year old Grandson who has had Pfzier, yesterday by sms converstaion and I ended with “Give up, it gets repetitive saying I will go with Novavax – to each his own – please respect mine”

    You’re clearly too old to know everything.


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  30. Psychologists. Decades of failing to change people’ behaviour and thinking but still thought of as experts. More grants and research needed. Was there ever more failed discipline.


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  31. Adding in to Arky’s analysis (very good by the way), there is a terrible pyramid of interlinked reputations, activist agendas, trusting governments, robber-baron Pharma Companies and more money than any of us can imagine tied up in the LockDown/Jabs Forevah!/Passport/Damn the Generic Meds paradigm, that has been built up by all these parties and their desperate believers. And there is a desperate need on the part of everyone for it to continue.

    It is a fatally flawed structure all of their own making, and when it finishes collapsing (because it is already falling over. And accelerating), there will be a terrible and sorry mess for the rest of us to clean up.

    As far as trains v. trucks go, these things merely add spice to life and keep our claws sharp. Struth may be a little prone to hyperbole and berko, but he is our Struth who may be a little prone to hyperbole and berko…


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  32. Psychologists. Decades of failing to change people’ behaviour and thinking but still thought of as experts. More grants and research needed. Was there ever more failed discipline.

    Not exactly. Many did psych in order to try and understand themselves. In the process they learned (so they thought) how to manipulate people.

    A devious and skilful manipulator in a position of power is an awful thing to encounter.

    But I contend that an incompetent and weak individual trying the same tactics from a position of power is even worse. Because not only can you see them coming, you know you can’t stop their idiocy because they have the power structure at their backs.

    It is like being beheaded by a blind man with a blunt axe- by the end, you want to damn well get up and do the job yourself…


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  33. I can count on one hand the number of people (ex this place) who are overtly vocal and not afraid to take on the sanctimony of the mob and sidestep the “rules”.

    Behind the rabbit-proof wall of Sandgroperstan, most people have even stopped checking in to their QR codes. Let alone social distancing. Masking is about as uncommon as it was pre-Coof. And the dreaded Nosferaflu itself really only features as a topic on certain TV channels rather than in general conversation. Good old Australian laissez-faire quietly reasserting itself.

    Sneakers better do a good job of panicking everyone over Delta if he wants his voteherds to comply…


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  34. 30% indoctrinated

    the thing is, a large proportion of this bloc are zealous nutbags who infest all social media. They will shout down the opposing 30% en masse.


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  35. the thing is, a large proportion of this bloc are zealous nutbags who infest all social media.

    Including the owners and chief beneficiaries.

    You also forgot to add the words ‘shut’ and ‘down’ to go with ‘shout down…’


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  36. “…a major psychological component of religion is the comfort of group identification and submission to authority figures”.
    *****
    You’ve clearly had no experience of Presbyterianism.


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  37. Cats, regarding regenerative/dynamic braking-

    An electric motor certainly does work at a generator to convert kinetic into electrical energy when the poles are reversed.

    However, it also generates excess energy in the form of heat.

    A battery can only absorb so much charge and on top of that, it generates a lot of heat.

    On my locomotives, this heat is dissipated by transferring it into a honking great resistor grid on the roof, with some equally big fans blowing air over it to clear the heat out. Use it for long periods of time at very high rates of retardation (Laugh on- I too was shocked to find this is actuslly the correct technical term) and it will shut down or explode. Here is what a tired loco looks like when its dynamic grid lets go, and launches its dyno fan away like a big, lethal frisbee:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mCk21G2LR-M

    Now, Roy Hill has just taken delivery of several GE Flex locos- Rolling battery stores that are designed to recharge themselves taking loaded trains down the Chichesters with 38,000t of ore, and expend themselves to help lift the empty trains going up. However, they are being bought to supplement the GE EVO diesel electric locos Roy Hill uses on its trains- Replacing one of the three 4500+ HP units in each. And primarily as a fuel-saving measure.

    Good luck trying to incorporate suitably beefy dynamic braking and heat dissipation/sinking into the average car or truck, where the available cubic space and mass is always at a premium and payload is king…


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  38. Religion by definition requires that one puts aside one’s rational / critical thought and instead relies on ‘faith’.

    There is a rather obvious dichotomy among ‘conservatives’ on this, where having faith in state ‘authorities’, climate change, WuFlu scares or collectivist philosophies is viewed as crazy ‘new age religions’, yet believing in all-knowing, all-caring ‘organised’ God, just because it’s been around longer, is instead seen as desirable.

    Some of you may be surprised to learn that there are many types of ‘atheism’; some of those can be quite spiritual. They just disagree with the notion that the Bible / Koran etc are an actual word of God, or that there is an omnipotent being who actually gives a f**k.

    Just like there are libertarian/conservative atheists, believe it or not. And no, not believing in an organised religion does NOT imply that one must have no moral principles.

    And Tim, Pascal’s wager has a very obvious answer. I’m sure you’ve heard of it.

    Regarding ‘being left alone’, it has not been true in practice for many years. Sadly, the majority will happily trade freedom for illusory ‘safety net’.

    A little while ago I came across a comparison of things that one could do in the UK 100 years ago without any need to deal with the government. Like set up a hair dressing salon without a licence, or travel to Australia without a passport. It was a rather long list, and I’m sure many things had been missed, too.

    None of that is now possible. If you’ve run a business, you’ll know just how massively the state imposts, regulations and taxation, have increased just in the 21st century.

    The current crisis is simply the obvious culmination of these trends. Just like the fact that the current young generation is apparently likely to be the first one in a long time that will have experienced a decline in living standards.

    Well I’m sure they are happy though, because they will be ‘safe’.


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  39. Religion by definition requires that one puts aside one’s rational / critical thought and instead relies on ‘faith’.

    I must, naturally, apply ratiocinative powers and seek evidence for this strange assertion; how, exactly, does religion,by definition, rely on faith?
    St. Augustine, for example, though he insisted that faith was indeed necessary to know God intimately, did not deny reason but maintained that reason, “the soul’s gaze” could determine eternal realities and God’s presence; St. Thomas Aquinas considered that human reason, without supernatural aid, could establish the existence of God and the immortality of the soul; Benedict VVI wrote many papers on the subject of reason and faith, suggesting that “faith and reason, far from being opposed to each other, can cooperate together for a greater knowledge of God and a deeper understanding of man”. None of those Christian writers advocated anything like the putting aside of critical or rational thought.
    Christianity, of course, is not the only religion.
    In Cicero’s day the most important aspect of the official Roman state religion was orthopraxy, the correct performance of religious acts, rather than orthodoxy, correct beliefs. Cicero thought the word religio derived not from religare, “to bind”, but from relegere, “to re-read” or “to go through again”. According to Cicero religion—which included private and domestic devotions as well as official, public rituals—was by definition reliant neither on reason nor on faith but on repeated practice; in his On the Nature of the Gods, Cicero is not so much concerned with asking, by rational argument and studious examination of Stoic, Epicurean and Academic philosopher’s judgements, not whether gods exist but whether they care for us.
    Cicero’s contempory Lucretius, on the other hand, reckoned religious beliefs had wrought many ills:

    tantum religio potuit suadere malorum (De Rerum Natura, I, 101)
    (“so many evils has religion incited”).

    Lucretius thought men could be persuaded by the honeyed words of poetry to accept the Epicurean tetrapharmakos, believing it is easy to find true peace of mind, for all can be sure in the four-fold cure:

    ?????? ? ????, ?????????? ? ???????, ??? ??????? ??? ????????, ?? ?? ?????? ??????????????.
    [Not to be feared is god, not to be felt is death, and what is good is easily done; whilst what is dire is easily borne. (from Philodemus, Herculaneum Papyrus, 1005, 4.9-14)]

    Nonetheless, Lucretius had no problem dedicating his rational hexameters to Venus and seeking her divine aid.
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  40. the fact that the current young generation is apparently likely to be the first one in a long time that will have experienced a decline in living standards.

    The inter-generational blaming won’t be pretty. It has started already. The ‘everything is getting worse’ syndrome will lead to more socialism and more apocalyptic thinking. This is Gen-X, that depressed generation now in their forties and seeing the political mess ahead.

    I like JC’s approach, that of stressing the positive things. I think the latest generation out of school (my 18 year old grandson) are ripe for some positive thinking, and a renewed patriotism seems one thing that might emerge, especially if there is some perceived external threat like China. Anomie may be sent packing by a religion that consolidates their ‘spiritual’ searching into something more organised, in small groups meeting in people’s homes that link into a network of others, with some central nodes to hold it together. It is the sense of ‘church’ and ‘community’ that is missing for most, especially as work life becomes more atomised and less stable. Christianity may yet rise again in the West to offer its hope by example, by self-sacrifice and kindliness. It is doing it in China for similarly disenchanted people.


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  41. It saddens me that we have to use propaganda in an attempt to snap them out of it.
    Yes, I noticed that. He didn’t flinch from it either.
    English (as she is spoke) is clearly not his first language. I’ll forgive him for not understanding the nuances and negatives connotations which go with the word (propaganda). I assumed he meant a barrage of truth bombs.

    An unrelenting barrage of truth bombs:

    “Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

    When you live in a society of appalling ahistorical smugnoramuses, this is what you have foisted on you. Blissfully easy to herd sheep, almost impossible to feel any affinity with – and goodness knows, of late, I have been trying (evidently unsuccessfully, again). 🙁

    I just wanted to be left alone. But not in the maximum security impeasantment you’ve thought you could get away with foisting on us.

    Thanks, you totalitarian knobheads. Now you’ve forced me to invoke HOP Time, a profound mighty event, which none of you will live to regret. 🙂


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  42. “Religion by definition requires that one puts aside one’s rational / critical thought and instead relies on ‘faith’.”
    ******
    Utterly false. For example, although the Christian scriptures tell us that we have to live at least in part by faith, we’re not required to “put aside” rational/critical thought at all. We’re just expected to apply our rational/critical thought to come to the realisation that there’s no a priori ground for believing that humans are inherently capable of omniscience, and therefore that there will inevitably be certain areas of our existence where we have to act on the basis of our best judgment – “faith” is not expected to exist contrary to reason, but alongside it.

    “There is a rather obvious dichotomy among ‘conservatives’ on this, where having faith in state ‘authorities’, climate change, WuFlu scares or collectivist philosophies is viewed as crazy ‘new age religions’, yet believing in all-knowing, all-caring ‘organised’ God, just because it’s been around longer, is instead seen as desirable.”
    ********
    The grounds for rejecting “faith” in the state, climate change etc., are the evidence against them. If there were no evidence against those things, then a ‘conservative’ would suspend judgment about them or their adherents.
    I’ve yet to meet a Christian who believes in God “just because it’s been around longer”. Perhaps you could introduce me to some.

    “And Tim, Pascal’s wager has a very obvious answer. I’m sure you’ve heard of it.”
    *******
    I’ve heard lots of them and haven’t been impressed by any of them.


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  43. Deadman, good to see you here again.

    You are right to point to Cicero as an examplar of the Roman approach (no-one who knows would doubt your obvious authority on this anyway). With Roman religion the practice was the issue that brought down Boudicca’s rebellion upon early Roman Britain. The Romans cared not what was believed but who had the right of first sacrifice. This also brought them into conflict with the Jewish State. It was primacy of ritual that was the issue. In both instances, Roman governors did their utmost to persuade the locals that it wouldn’t hurt to just put in a first sacrifice to Imperial Cult of the Roman State, represented by the power of the Emperor and that would avoid a lot of trouble. Jupiter was part of that. But both the old religion of Britain and that of the Hebrews had a notion of the primacy of The Father, their own father god, and so it was no go and lots of trouble.


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