1,053 thoughts on “Open Thread – Weekend 11 Dec 2021”

  1. Arky, Malian H2 trap is real, gas trapped in more porous sedimentary strata with a dolerite cap over the top. The area does have Archean Mafics so would support Bruces post above as a possible source. I did have a link but it keeps getting cancelled by the spaminator. Am unsure of how accurate the resource estimate is but a lot of those companies working on the drilling and geology are decades old in oil/gas. They would likely be somewhat reliable. The resource estimate seems very large at face value but that isn’t unusual and usually done to attract investment or a take over bid. IMO here investment.

    There is no large scale production wells that I can see and given the skewed nature of news on so called renewables I’d exercise a higher due diligence before taking the plunge. Mali also is very unstable, a land locked sub Saharan country, coup there last year. French Government prop the place up. That said obviously H2 is one area where UN & said subsidy mining firms are concentrating a lot of effort, just to find the right project.


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  2. rosiesays:
    December 12, 2021 at 1:02 pm
    More suspectible to what, getting covid?
    I don’t see any evidence to support getting any of the current vaccinations available makes you more likely to catch covid in the next couple of weeks.
    You would be in exactly the same state you were before you were vaccinated.
    If what you say is correct then we should have seen an increase in people getting covid once the Victorian lockdowns ended, instead the reproduction rate remains steady at around 1.

    Rosie it has been known since 1981 that transient declines in some immune cells occurs after flue vaccination so the issue is not unique to this vaccine. What I don’t know is whether this fall represents a shift in immune resource allocation that also occurs when infection occurs, although I suspect it does if that infection involves the adaptive immune response. I’m not worried about this fall post vaccination. It has probably been happening to gazillions of people when they get vaccines. That is certainly true of the flu vaccine. A transient fall is neither here nor there. Even my yearly blood tests show changes in neutrophils and lymphocyte counts without clear evidence of infection. If the decline from the vaccine is that serious we should be seeing increases in all types of infections not just COVID.

    PS. I checked. A number of infections have been found to reduce lymphocyte counts.

    Nothing to see here. Move on. Have a nice day.


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  3. cohenite,
    The other day I went down to Trinity Point for a burger. I couldn’t find a takeaway there, just a couple of restaurants with no takeaway service.

    In other news, I went to the Newcastle march today. The coppers estimated the crowd as 7000. A more lovely and respectful group of people you couldn’t hope to meet.


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  4. Nelson_Kidd-Players says:
    December 12, 2021 at 1:31 pm
    […]
    I’m just old enough to have lived through that time. Daily delivery of milk via autonomous self-driving vehicles. So primitive! ?

    And unlike trying to programme electronic driving aides today, just a click or a whoa and the horse knew which houses to go past or wait as orders changed.

    My old brumby was so good I could call him up at the paddock, get a bit of hay band around him for the ‘tying up’ at whichever destination I asked him to take me, by name, i.e. a friends place, the oval, the shops etc. and just kick back.

    Give a kid a horse to play with & it’s amazing what they can teach them by accident when there isn’t an expert around to tell then it can’t be done 🙂


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  5. Rockdoctor says:
    December 12, 2021 at 4:35 pm
    Arky, Malian H2 trap is real

    ..
    Something to watch for, I think.
    If you add exploring for the stuff to converting gas and using H2 as storage for excess wind and solar, plus the fact that you can run ICEs off H2, or use in fuel cells, plus maybe one day convert your classic V8 to run off it, well, it screws EVs, eh?


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  6. I would like to mention that SEN radio in Mongyang used to be a very passable sports network.

    This afternoon for two hours or more it was two dickheads, of which one (I think) was marketed as some old bloke in a pub, singing 80s songs at each other in between checking the miniscule amounts of texts in.

    I believe there may have been a racing flavour to it, as the most interesting bit was fifteen minutes discussing teaser ponies.

    Dear SEN. You used to be cool. Now – just fuck off.


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  7. The other day I went down to Trinity Point for a burger. I couldn’t find a takeaway there, just a couple of restaurants with no takeaway service.

    There’s only one restaurant; it’s a big one, great service and food. At the height of the chunk virus closedowns they were closed but were offering take-a-way. That’s now ended and its gone back to the usual restaurant service. Do yourself a favour, make a booking and enjoy a top meal. Reasonably priced too.


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  8. Exactly Dover it’s been at least six weeks since lockdown in Victoria ended and the covid reproduction rate remains steady at around 1. Infection rates are very stable.
    And there is zero reliable evidence that hospitals are being ‘overwhelmed by vax injuries’ .
    Hospital wait time statistics are published regularly and available to the hoi polloi.
    Seems to me some people are so desperate to be right about the decision they took, they are clutching at everything published, no matter how ludicrous, like claims about dangerously low white blood cell counts and microscopic razors.
    And Duncanm pointed out the other day neonatal death rates in the UK have been stable throughout 2020 and 2021.
    In the meantime the very real political issues around passports and mandates are being completely overshadowed because too many people on the freedom side are pursuing, in many cases, arrant nonsense.
    There has been so much utter rubbish about the wicked evil vaxx I now discount about all of it. I don’t deny some people have had bad reactions and a number have died. Just sorry nothing like the effort put in to opposing vaccines has never been expended on opposing abortion or the contraceptive pill by all these wonderful doctors and Nobel prize winners.
    And why despite their lack of public profile I much prefer ldp over the uap.
    Not to mention with approaching 95% of the adult population being vaxxed going on about death jabs isn’t going to win friends and influence people to take your political side.


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  9. Imagine how pissed off the likes of Greta would be if you could pump hydrogen out of the ground and let billions of people have the lifestyles these Marxist shits want to end for everyone but themselves.


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  10. Is your short response John H there is no evidence to support any of the covid vaccines cause people to be extremely susceptible to infection for a two three weeks period afterwards?
    This seems to be a variation on the vaccines kill your white blood cells.
    Looks like as each anti vaxx argument is repudiated, a shiny new one pops up to take it’s place.


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  11. @ Dot-

    I don’t know much about Nagash, the Ruinous powers or any of that stuff the pointy-ears get into.

    So long as I have slab, a charged and fully functional lasgun and nobody has defaced my Uplifting Primer, I am a cheerful Anger… 😉


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  12. Philosophy time, peoples.

    Everything I have self righteously whinged about for the last decade is inexcusable.

    Being born in the most fortunate time in human history will do that to you.

    The biggest problem at the moment is trying to find all those pairs of Gazelles for a photo which I’ll then send off to my friends while listening to Miss Ellie at top note – unashamed gloatage.

    While trying to work out where my brand new pair of Cherry Reds are. 😕


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  13. rosiesays:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:07 pm
    Is your short response John H there is no evidence to support any of the covid vaccines cause people to be extremely susceptible to infection for a two three weeks period afterwards?
    This seems to be a variation on the vaccines kill your white blood cells.
    Looks like as each anti vaxx argument is repudiated, a shiny new one pops up to take it’s place.

    Rosie I was rightly criticized here for being too technical but this and other examples here demonstrate the exact opposite is more dangerous: being simple is dumb and dangerous. Too many people are not bothering to learn immunology but feel free to interpret findings from one of the most complex areas in biomedicine. So I’m done with most of the discussion but on this occasion the claims are so sophomoric I could not restrain myself.


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  14. Some fuckwit on 2HD arguing it’ll be good for the libs and the country to vote them out and vote the liars in because that will force the libs to get back to their roots instead of being liar lite. I find this argument moronic. No doubt there are liars and greens in the libs but you work to get those bastards out not throw the whole thing under a bus and let the liars and the filth in to wreck the joint. Just look at biden: in 11 months the creep has fucked the US and the world. That would happen in Australia if the liars got in. The power would be off and 50000 muzzies would be sailing from indonesia. I’ve had my say so can’t get back on so why don’t one of the smarties here get on and refute the drongo’s view. I suspect he’s a liar plant anyway.


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  15. I’m sorry, but I don’t find this credible. Present the evidence to back up the claim and I’m not talking about Chauncey Garderner who owns a website and is a rogue doc from some shithole . I would like to see a uniform opinion that this vax behaves so differently from other vaxes in the way you assert.

    Look at the figures from NSW Health in my Shenanigans post two months ago. Also, look at the link above, in my reply to Rosie, where health care workers in a Danish study have a 100% increase in their risk profile during the first two weeks before their immune response rapidly improves.

    Aren’t you in the least suspicious that these reporting agencies dump the newly vaxxed into the unvaxxed side of ledger for the first three weeks post-first jab? Then do the same to first jab cohort, post-second jab for the first two weeks. They are contaminating both of these cohorts through this sleight of hand.


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  16. plus the fact that you can run ICEs off H2, or use in fuel cells, plus maybe one day convert your classic V8 to run off it, well, it screws EVs, eh?

    I believe Hyundai already developed a hydrogen vehicle a few years ago?

    Also, I heard about a prototype test done with a rotary engine for hydrogen.
    Apparently the rotary converts quite easily to run on hydrogen.


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  17. No I’m not even remotely suspicious Dover.
    I think ‘no effective dose’ is a perfectly logical explanation when apparently the vaccine is supposed to get your body to create antibodies that enhance your own capacity to fight this particular infection.
    Otherwise we are looking at yet another massive worldwide conspiracy to hide the truth.


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  18. Mark Hunter explaining the inspiration for that mighty track above:

    “I was desperately in love with this girl and I wrote whole albums of songs about her …”

    As one does. 🙂


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  19. cohenite:
    No doubt there are liars and greens in the libs but you work to get those bastards out

    cohenite, they keep preselecting more of them rather than getting rid of them. Hence why John Ruddick departed to the Lib-Dems.

    What about you? Otherwise they ain’t getting my vote.


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  20. So long as I have a slab

    AKA Betty’s worry …

    Not quite, Rabz. 🙂

    I was making an in-universe joke for Dot.

    This is what I mean by Slab.

    A humble Guardsman’s lot… 😉


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  21. From Canadian commenting on Eugyypius thread re lockdowns and over reach.

    Every boomer I encounter is in love with all this. They’ve lived their lives coasting on the stolen valour from their parents’ participation in the war, and have unlimited faith in the government.

    They squandered 70 years of peace and prosperity and now spend their retirement calling the cops on kids playing basketball.



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  22. In better news only two sleeps til my girls arrive.
    Have been discussing this with my 17 month old grandson who is very excited about little cousin x coming ‘in the sky’.

    He has an amazing vocab and repeats everything you say.
    eg ‘ship’.
    🙂


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  23. DrBeauGan says:
    December 12, 2021 at 2:26 pm
    . . . So I moved on to the theory that bureaucrats wanted to control us and were terrifying ppl to deliver us from evil at the price of our freedom. This currently looks the most credible explanation for the behaviour of the political class.

    I’d say there’s an element of that, and more. However, I think the underlying explanation is that after the initial period of understandable ignorance and alarm, government realised (as did all sensible people) that it had badly overreacted to the fear of threat and at the same time failed in its basic public health responsibilities. This left them with two options. They could apologise, lose the following election and face the legal consequences. Or they could double down, pretend this really was Black Death II, lie / deny / counter-accuse, and blame it all on the unconvinced and the uncooperative.

    Two years on, here we are.


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  24. Mind you Rabz, a parody edit of Throw Your Arms Around Me would be very easily done.

    Imagine (Euuurrgh) a Grigs-analogue with the creepy eyes and a plastic butterknife…

    #Cancel-Bait


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  25. Rosie it has been known since 1981 that transient declines in some immune cells occurs after flue vaccination so the issue is not unique to this vaccine. What I don’t know is whether this fall represents a shift in immune resource allocation that also occurs when infection occurs, although I suspect it does if that infection involves the adaptive immune response. I’m not worried about this fall post vaccination. It has probably been happening to gazillions of people when they get vaccines. That is certainly true of the flu vaccine.

    Which is why I believe you get vaxxed before the flu season begins, not in the middle of one.
    Let’s just recap the more susceptible to infection (COVID) in first 2-3 weeks post first jab.
    Danish study:

    in this STUDY the danes found dramatic increases in infection rates post vaccination. “adjusted VE” is the risk adjusted vaccine efficacy. it was -40% for nursing home residents and -104% for health care workers in those homes. it more than doubled their risk. (it’s to be expected that the younger, healthier HCW’s would see more drop vs the NH residents in the event of immuno-suppression as they had more effective immune systems to suppress. we see the same reflected in peak VE of 90% for HCW vs 64% in residents)

    note that this is all in the 14 days post dose 1. VE ramped up over time, but those first two weeks were a serious risk accelerant.

    Pfizer’s own study:

    Indeed, the original Pfizer trial demonstrated a statistically significant 40% increase in ‘suspected COVID’, with 409 cases in the vaccination arm in the first week of the trial, compared with 287 in the placebo arm.[2] Other publications have omitted mention of the period immediately after vaccination.[3] [4] There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.[5] Others have raised concerns about this.[6]”

    In other words, these studies didn’t look at white blood cells counts alone or at all, they looked at number of infections per each category and when it occurred.


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  26. cohenite says:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:17 pm
    Rosie I was rightly criticized here for being too technical

    Ignore them; they’re jealous. Be as technical as you want.

    Cohenite – I was the one who “criticised” John H – all he was doing at the time was cutting & pasting excerpts from medical journals – so unless one was prepared to spend a few years at Uni doing medical studies, it was rather pointless.

    What I asked for was a simplified version in addition to the cut & paste.
    I can do that for my engineering field & it is not difficult to someone who really knows their field.


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  27. government realised (as did all sensible people) that it had badly overreacted to the fear of threat and at the same time failed in its basic public health responsibilities. This left them with two options. They could apologise, lose the following election and face the legal consequences.

    This cost Sweden’s government far less at the time than the subsequent ‘normal’ political shenaniganry and scandals has.

    One would think that a spot of honesty would actually temporarily improve one’s poll-standings in the way that appearing to show strong leadership during a natural disaster (e.g. bushfire, flood, etc.) might.

    Or they could double down, pretend this really was Black Death II, lie / deny / counter-accuse, and blame it all on the unconvinced and the uncooperative.

    When you are contemptuous of the average plebe and they are equally contemptuous of you, this was probably inevitable.


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  28. Rex – a slab is a slab is a slab.

    Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle … 🙂

    If the in-universe descriptions are anything to go by, you’d need a remarkable constitution to be able to drink the stuff. 🙁

    #OyVey


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  29. Look at the figures from NSW Health in my Shenanigans post two months ago.

    I do recall, but there are several possibilities why that occurred as correlation doesn’t always speak to causation.

    Also, look at the link above, in my reply to Rosie, where health care workers in a Danish study have a 100% increase in their risk profile during the first two weeks before their immune response rapidly improves.

    First off, it doesn’t sound plausible and there would be more evidence needed than just Denmark, especially when a decent swag of the West has been immunized. Like above there could be other valid reasons. Other centres would be showing the same pattern as what you believe is occurring. Where is it?

    Aren’t you in the least suspicious that these reporting agencies dump the newly vaxxed into the unvaxxed side of ledger for the first three weeks post-first jab?

    I’m suspicious of all data, so yea, color me suspicious if indeed that is what’s been happening. Do you have not one, but several data points showing this to be true? I’d like to see several bits of data from unique sources confirming this.

    Then do the same to first jab cohort, post-second jab for the first two weeks. They are contaminating both of these cohorts through this sleight of hand.

    Perhaps they are, or perhaps it’s just sloppy data capture like we’ve seen throughout this abortion.


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  30. Plasmamortar, rotaries are very maintenance intensive and don’t like city driving much. Used to be a shed load of the round Bendigo when I was at Uni there, along with V8’s. The little Mazda’s would if tuned right belt the pants off a V8 initially. Seen it happen a few times round Pall Mall on McRae st between lights.

    The boys that drove them however loved them and were honest about what it took to keep the going. Computers would likely lessen the load but reckon there still would be a lot of visits to the garage.


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  31. Sickening.

    The Chinks don’t run horse-racing with the same fear of horse and jockey fatalities of the Australians. There’s the chance of both horse and jockey deaths in the $A4m Group 1 Hong Kong sprint just run at Sha Tin. Hoping for the best.


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  32. Fats

    Cohenite – I was the one who “criticised” John H – all he was doing at the time was cutting & pasting excerpts from medical journals – so unless one was prepared to spend a few years at Uni doing medical studies, it was rather pointless.

    Fats, with due respect, but we have people here liking to Karl Denninger and something called Team Tucker Carlson as evidence for scientific claims, yet you’re berating John H for linking to medical journals? Dude, come on.


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  33. No I’m not even remotely suspicious Dover.
    I think ‘no effective dose’ is a perfectly logical explanation when apparently the vaccine is supposed to get your body to create antibodies that enhance your own capacity to fight this particular infection.
    Otherwise we are looking at yet another massive worldwide conspiracy to hide the truth.

    Firstly, it’s not logical at all. If you catch COVID in those first 2-3 weeks post-first jab, let that be reflected in the figures. Don’t hide that risk in the unvaxxed category. Secondly, why must this determination to hide apparent failure require a worldwide conspiracy? Prior to mid-Sept, NSW Health included everyone post-jab in the partially vaxxed column; once that column was above the unvaxxed column in positive cases, they redefined the no vaxxed column as no effective dosage and included all first jab last 21 days or less into the bargain. That isn’t an innocent maneuver.


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  34. And Fats,

    What I asked for was a simplified version in addition to the cut & paste.
    I can do that for my engineering field & it is not difficult to someone who really knows their field.

    I do respect your claim to being an engineer.


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  35. JC says:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:59 pm
    Fats

    Cohenite – I was the one who “criticised” John H – all he was doing at the time was cutting & pasting excerpts from medical journals – so unless one was prepared to spend a few years at Uni doing medical studies, it was rather pointless.

    Fats, with due respect, but we have people here liking to Karl Denninger and something called Team Tucker Carlson as evidence for scientific claims, yet you’re berating John H for linking to medical journals? Dude, come on.

    Yeah JC – just cutting & pasting slabs of medical jargon without a simplified explanation really works.
    Your comments on financial thingies are easy to follow – is that too much to ask of other contributors here?


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  36. First off, it doesn’t sound plausible and there would be more evidence needed than just Denmark, especially when a decent swag of the West has been immunized. Like above there could be other valid reasons. Other centres would be showing the same pattern as what you believe is occurring. Where is it?

    We saw it outside of Denmark. Pfizer’s own study found a 40% increase in infection v unvaxxed in first two weeks. This is precisely why numerous reporting agencies across the world exclude people in first two or three weeks from first dose category. Even the Swedish large cohort study that indicates declining VE from the third month onwards truncate the first two weeks from their figures.


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  37. What about you? Otherwise they ain’t getting my vote.

    You mean run? After Anning got booted I invested time and money with the Latham branch of PHON. The SFF are evanescent. I spoke to one of their organisers at a Plimer talk (which like everything he does was excellent) and I couldn’t get a straight answer about alarmism, or guns. Kelly is good but big clive is a worry. And I don’t think the LDP has enough profile, unless head prefect dusts off his loafers and makes a swaddle for them.

    But this is dream talk. Because you don’t talk about parties but the punters. And right now, although disenfranchisement is growing with the liars and lnp, they still are the only base choice for the punters.


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  38. Never underestimate the rank opportunism of politicians and grifters. And that’s just a subset of the axis of greed and duplicity surrounding Covid.

    It has ousted a US President, installed a demented imbecile, funnelled vast sums of money into the pockets of the largest companies, and drawn back the curtain on what was once the behind-the-scenes shenanigans of unelected oligarchs and assorted @rseholic parasites.

    It has also ushered in a new level of propaganda and suppression not seen since the cold war.

    Even here we’ve had commenters fairly salivating over the future deaths of those who have, for their own private reasons (and they are legion), been jabbed. And still expecting to sway others to their thinking. Anyone voicing the mildest objection is anathema.

    My own view is that the pandemic was a Pandora’s Box just waiting to be opened, and out of it flew all the worst things that people can possibly be – rank hypocrisy, greed, opportunism, cruelty, lust for power to name a few. It still continues, fanned by the media and those with the most to gain from its prolongation.

    Rather than casting about for the tiddlers who may have strayed from the received wisdom of every mainstream and fringe internet site, it might be best to focus on the obvious – who benefits? The list is long.


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  39. calli says:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:14 pm

    Even here we’ve had commenters fairly salivating over the future deaths of those who have, for their own private reasons (and they are legion), been jabbed. And still expecting to sway others to their thinking. Anyone voicing the mildest objection is anathema.

    Ah, yes. That tendency also came up in this morning’s sermon, as posted above. Love first being the antidote. Is is we need reminding, ’cause we do. 🙂


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  40. Oh. And so you don’t think I’m altogether pessimistic in outlook, the last thing to fly out of the Box was Hope.

    My hope rests in something far more secure than a Greek legend, but there it is, shining and newly minted. It won’t fade or fail.

    If only Pandora had been like Penelope and kept her idle hands busy with some sewing…but that would be another story. 😀


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  41. rosie says:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:31 pm
    No I’m not even remotely suspicious Dover.
    I think ‘no effective dose’ is a perfectly logical explanation

    Sincere question: is this how the results for other injections are treated in health statistics (here or abroad)? If so, then perhaps the ‘no effective dose’ answer is correct. I’m open to that. On the other hand, if the Kung Flu injections are being treated differently in the stats, then my own existing suspicions would be even stronger.

    Someone here probably knows.

    Dover’s overlapping post, above, reminded me of the Australian experience. But I don’t know how other countries treat this. The national stats agencies all talk to each other, so I’d expect a consensus to emerge over time.

    (As a side note, one need only look at employment and inflation statistics to see an massive worldwide conspiracy to hide the truth. It’s a lot more common than you think.)


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  42. Yeah JC – just cutting & pasting slabs of medical jargon without a simplified explanation really works.
    Your comments on financial thingies are easy to follow – is that too much to ask of other contributors here?

    Fair enough. In my opinion he’s the best science contributor here as he doesn’t try to post crap that just aligns with bias.


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  43. Deplorable unclean scum of the Earth news.

    Thousands turn out in NSW, Victoria, Queensland and Tasmania to protest against vaccine mandates (Sky News, 12 Dec)

    Thousands of protestors have turned out in Sydney, Melbourne, Hobart and on the Gold Coast in defiance of the government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic and vaccine mandates.

    More than 1,000 carrying signs and flags gathered outside Melbourne’s state parliament before walking down Bourke Street to Carlton Gardens.

    Protesters were shouting “sack Dan Andrews”, “free Victoria” and “my body, my choice” as they walked in protest of the vaccine mandates.

    There was chaotic scenes in the Melbourne CBD as the protest clashed with the Melbourne marathon with both events causing road closures.

    I hope none of the Melbourne marathon participants died of sudden heart attacks.


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  44. calli says:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:22 pm
    Oh. And so you don’t think I’m altogether pessimistic in outlook, the last thing to fly out of the Box was Hope.

    My family has been vaxxed – and trying to have a rational discussion about it gets me the following question “Which University did you get your doctor’s degree from?” It goes downhill from there.

    I really hope things work out ok because if any of my family die from these “vaccines”, I’m not sure my Christian upbringing will hold out. Like others have said – I just want to be left alone.


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  45. Bluddee hell, Rex -“the stuff” being what exactly, I asks ya?

    Slab.

    Imagine, if you dare, a squarish lump of something that resembles silken tofu, with the consistency and taste of window sealant rubber, sufficient calories to keep the average human being powered for a considerable period of time and is all but impervious to the degradation and decay one might expect of any organic foodstuff.

    Now picture it as a standard staple foodstuff. Which, along with harsh, chemical-tasting water forms the only rations you are likely to reliably get during campaigns against foes the lowliest of which leave you and all the technological marvels you field as being woefully outclassed at best.

    Pity the Guardsman, Rabz. He’s only carved out and held a Galaxy-spanning empire from all comers for some 40,000 years…

    Heroes. Every. Last. Damned. One.


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  46. Rex Anger says:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:53 pm
    government realised (as did all sensible people) that it had badly overreacted to the fear of threat and at the same time failed in its basic public health responsibilities. This left them with two options. They could apologise, lose the following election and face the legal consequences.

    This cost Sweden’s government far less at the time than the subsequent ‘normal’ political shenaniganry and scandals has. One would think that a spot of honesty would actually temporarily improve one’s poll-standings in the way that appearing to show strong leadership during a natural disaster (e.g. bushfire, flood, etc.) might.

    Yep. Ordinary people who aren’t being pressured by a crowd are a lot more forgiving of an honest mistake than a deception. I reckon a chap would get a fair few votes if he simply said “I’ll end up making at least a few mistakes, but I’ll be honest when I do.”


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  47. Even here we’ve had commenters fairly salivating over the future deaths of those who have, for their own private reasons (and they are legion), been jabbed.

    Yeah, no.

    This monstrous hitlerist idiocy has messed with many peoples’ heads. No one wants to see or is advocating for this, calli – if that’s any consolation.

    If only we could get back to 2019. Except that we cannot.

    I want the vile quisling cockheads responsible administered lengthy public floggings, prior to being hanged from their necks until dead, followed by the very righteous implementation of HOP Time.

    Pour encourager les autres …

    Then, and only then, we can all get some sleep. 🙂


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  48. We saw it outside of Denmark. Pfizer’s own study found a 40% increase in infection v unvaxxed in first two weeks. This is precisely why numerous reporting agencies across the world exclude people in first two or three weeks from first dose category. Even the Swedish large cohort study that indicates declining VE from the third month onwards truncate the first two weeks from their figures.

    And what did Pfizer say? I don’t understand why you believe it’s out of bounds to think there are other factors at play. Take Victoria for instance. We had very little vaccination until covid infections began to climb. You’re arguing that the infection climb ( even with the small number in Victoria compared to the rest of the world) and the much increased immunization rate were related. They were related because some immunized people were prone to getting covid within the period you suggest they’re vulnerable. I’m just not buying it without much further evidence.

    Also

    Which is why I believe you get vaxxed before the flu season begins, not in the middle of one.

    I’ve had the flu shot as late as July and as early as January.


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  49. I can’t seem to shake the feeling that ”Rosie” is Steve from Brisbane.
    If not, then maybe his sister.

    Not a chance.

    Rosie is far too incisive, even-handed, open-minded and unafraid to stick to her guns.

    Stepford resorts to decrying everyone who disagrees with him as bigots and wingnuts as a tactic of first resort.

    Read from top to bottom this thread, if you have the stomach. He’s great fun to trigger, but the snarling arsehole underneath is not nice to witness…

    https://catallaxy.wpengine.com/2021/09/liberal-institutionalism/


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  50. Even here we’ve had commenters fairly salivating over the future deaths of those who have, for their own private reasons (and they are legion), been jabbed.

    Yeah, no.

    This monstrous hitlerist idiocy has messed with many peoples’ heads. No one wants to see or is advocating for this, calli – if that’s any consolation.

    It’s true actually. I had Hallward-the-aviator chortling that when I died from the shot the c..t would buy some avgas fly down and piss on my grave. Buying avagas… the last of the big spenders.. FMD.


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    2
  51. Rabz says:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:36 pm
    I want the vile quisling cockheads responsible administered lengthy public floggings, prior to being hanged from their necks until dead, followed by the very righteous implementation of HOP Time.

    Rabz – crucifixion is preferable to hanging. Even a botched hanging is over in 5/10 mins or so.
    Crucifixion takes days – and can be arranged so people can fling dog shit & other goodies at them over that period. And don’t forget the on-going ticket sales…


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    8
  52. Guys, you must know by now that I want nothing but good for all of you. Even the ones who give me the sh*ts. Probably them most of all. 😀

    I’m watching my friends start lining up for “boosters”, all full of trust for the government because they know best. My parents will be next. Watching the fear in the eyes of people who should know better but don’t. Even this morning I had a comment about “being in Sydney” as if it was a plague ravaged hellhole*.

    There are times I just don’t recognise my own country any more.

    *that may be true, particularly around glitter and sequins time


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  53. Rex Angersays:
    December 12, 2021 at 5:38 pm

    Sure beats that Darryl bloke and his horses, Rabz…

    That’s because it wasn’t his Horses, it was Rickie Lee Jones’ song of a mother to her child, and Braithwaite took it as a sex song and avoided every opportunity to give Ricki credit for ‘his’ awards for it.

    Rickie Lee Jones – Horses
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elmaK9MOuE0


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    2
  54. They were related because some immunized people were prone to getting covid within the period you suggest they’re vulnerable.

    JC, look at the Australian vaxxed versus infections charts side by side, two relatively small waves of infection, no vax present. These two waves would presumably represent the “natural” ebb and flow of a round of infections. Then vax’s start being administered. When vaxed numbers hit between 70 and 80%, infections take off, in a huge way that exceeds the previous waves by a factor of roughly 4.

    Something is terribly wrong.

    If you didn’t know a thing about the data or what it was associated with you would readily conclude that the chart representing vaccinations is causative to the chart representing infections.


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  55. My own view is that the pandemic was a Pandora’s Box just waiting to be opened, and out of it flew all the worst things that people can possibly be – rank hypocrisy, greed, opportunism, cruelty, lust for power to name a few.

    Yep.

    As someone said about Nazi collaborators –

    They were always among us; the Nazis just gave them the opportunity to show themselves.


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  56. Rick

    I accept this could be a problem, but one danish study or the tag team thing going on with higher vax rates and more covid may not be simple cause and effect. Look, I’m open to any decent interpretation though with decent evidence.


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  57. Crucifixion takes days – and can be arranged so people can fling dog shit & other goodies at them over that period. And don’t forget the on-going ticket sales…

    Not to mention the merchandising. Do I get the kids the Dickhead Dan Crucifixion Day 1 or Day 2 doll?! Heck I’ll get them both!!


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    4
  58. They were always among us; the Nazis just gave them the opportunity to show themselves.

    At least 20% of the Australian adult population would fall into that category. All 10% of the greens and perhaps 1/2 the liars party.


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  59. “Which University did you get your doctor’s degree from?”

    unless they’re MDs the answer would be, “same place as yours mate”

    if they are MD’s, my question to them would be, “What was your PhD thesis on?”


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    6
  60. JC says:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:43 pm
    Fats

    Cut John H a little slack. He’s good value on the whole. We all can’t be perfect creatures like you and me.. more me than you though ?

    Oi JC – I bet there’s more of me than you…. 🙂


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    2
  61. You know, trading the aussie over the past two or three weeks, it feels so freaking heavy that it would be scary to be long. Every rally has been met with truly vicious selling. If non-oil commods are also heavy, the Aussie could end up with the 20% clipping.

    Just thinking out loud.


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    2
  62. my Son’s father in law is a MD.

    waiting for the boy to pull the higher authority card from the Uno (fallacy edition) deck.

    I’ll get him to ask “the higher authority” how many covid patients he’s treated.

    reckon we all know exactly what that number will be


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    6
  63. miltonf says:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    “Which University did you get your doctor’s degree from?”

    well doctors aren’t biochemists or microbiologists either.

    My cardio has a phd in microbiology.


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    4
  64. There was a recent chunk cyber attack on some QLD coal power plants. This act addresses such issues. Timely, eh.

    Cyber security of plant control systems has been a hot topic for about 10 years. If the chunks could carry out a successful attack, a whole department needs firing.


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    5
  65. At least 20% of the Australian adult population would fall into that category. All 10% of the greens and perhaps 1/2 the liars party.

    If we were ever invaded by China we’d see some revelations.

    Thankfully it’s unlikely.

    But they’re still among us.


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  66. being in Sydney as if it was a plague ravaged hellhole

    Bluddee hell – this has inspired more philosophasising … 😕

    Sydneystan is not a place – it is ‘a way of being’. There are so many things I love about it:

    The big blue skys
    The harbour on a Saturday morning
    The bay run
    The endless traffic jams
    The stinky public transport
    The CBD
    That unique green on a Summer’s evening
    The cute, cuddly li’l inner city
    The pubs and their pool tables
    The goils, from all over this planet
    That it’s your birth right – there is no where else on this continent I would like to live.

    If that makes me a bad personage, then so be it.


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  67. And what did Pfizer say? I don’t understand why you believe it’s out of bounds to think there are other factors at play. Take Victoria for instance. We had very little vaccination until covid infections began to climb. You’re arguing that the infection climb ( even with the small number in Victoria compared to the rest of the world) and the much increased immunization rate were related. They were related because some immunized people were prone to getting covid within the period you suggest they’re vulnerable. I’m just not buying it without much further evidence.

    I quoted it. Pfizer study had 40% more infections in the vaxx group first week following jab v placebo. The Danish found a doubling of infection v unvaxxed. You can guarantee Pfizer tortured the data to get it down to 40%. I really don’t know what more I can do.


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  68. Just so as Cats know, I mean a real and very well known Cat: a denizen of this and previous editions of Catallaxy. He looks excellent as a protest sign, onna stick. In Coffs Harbour. Wow.


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  69. Milts – forgot about the Ferries – the only ones I’ve used recently were the Manly one (to get to my sister’s place) and an inner west one (to get to a certain Catette’s place). 🙂


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    1
  70. That’s because it wasn’t his Horses, it was Rickie Lee Jones’ song of a mother to her child, and Braithwaite took it as a sex song and avoided every opportunity to give Ricki credit for ‘his’ awards for it.

    Doesn’t matter.

    If I am going to suffer the spectacle of a bunch of people loudly and clumsily (drunkenly?) trying to sing along to something in a public place, far better it be Throw Your Arms Around Me, You’re The Voice or even Sadie the Cleaning Lady to any Daryls.

    I know you seem to think I am the Debbil-debbil incarnate because I laugh and poke fun at some of your more off-the-wall ambits, SRR, but I do have standards…


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    2
  71. Crispy fried meatballs.

    NSW train workers demand shorts on job (Sky News, 11 Dec)

    “Growing concerns about heat stress.” They’re striking Tuesday. When is Christmas again?

    Bollocks.

    Practically everything the Spark drivers in NSW operate is air-conditioned. Has been since the coming of the K-, C- and V-sets in the late 1970s.

    The last of the non-AC trainsets were retired in 2019.

    The RTBU has been up in arms over the newest Hyundai trains coming out, because they are allegedly too big for the loading gauge. And on top of that, it’s EBA time. So every Public Servant in NSW is clamouring for biggish pay rises.

    Extra uniform options is just a Distraction Squirrel showing a little extra ankle…


    Report comment

  72. callisays:
    December 12, 2021 at 6:15 pm
    Yikes! That was a big rant.

    Better get dinner going

    More please.

    —————————-

    Seriously, if COVID has been endemic since early 2019 (or before), this is the greatest hoax of all time.


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  73. Seriously, if COVID has been endemic since early 2019 (or before), this is the greatest hoax of all time.

    And all those poor bats and pangolins died for nothing. 🙁


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    2
  74. incoherent rambler says:
    December 12, 2021 at 10:36 am

    Come and get us!
    I would be happy with an US invasion and occupation.
    US imposed martial law for a few years and then adopting the Texas constitution.

    No.
    This is our problem and we have to solve it ourselves.
    Waiting for a big brother to fight for us is a strategy in which we learn only helplessness.


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    8
  75. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sars-cov-2s-spread-was-the-virus-circulating-in-europe-before-it-was-found-in-china

    It is referenced and linked so no “fact checking” or “citations needed” you spergy soy mouth tofu lovers.

    Summer 2019: Surveillance in Lombardy
    Italian researchers conducted measles and rubella surveillance in Lombardy, focusing on skin manifestations and measles-like symptomology.

    They took 435 samples from 156 people and analyzed them for the presence of SARS-CoV-2.

    They found genetic material belonging to the virus in 13 samples, 11 of which were from the pre-pandemic period. However, they found no clear evidence of infection in 281 samples collected between August 2018 and July 2019, ruling out much earlier circulation.

    The first case they detected dated back to September 12, 2019, which spurred them to believe that infections emerged between late June and August 2019.

    However, Dr. William Schaffner — a professor of medicine in the division of infectious disease at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, TN — said that a simple laboratory contamination of specimens could be ruled out, as several different laboratories were involved and the studies were conducted by different investigators in different institutions.

    Still looks like Espanol in March 2019 was the earliest known cases on Europe.

    Pandemics lasting 33 months, with vaccines available for the last seven of those.

    This is a bloody joke.


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  76. From Brazil – computer hackers have wiped all the vaccine records of every Brazilian …

    I cannot condone illegal behaviour.

    I do doubt that a jury would convict, however, but also consider that we should have “jury nullification” as a right.


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    3
  77. Watching Rogan clips now.

    I forgot Tim Kennedy declared that water boarding isn’t torture.

    “The rack wasn’t torture, otherwise it would have been called a torture machine.”

    That’s a highly polished argument, from a highly polished, very, very smooth brain.


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  78. Still looks like Espanol in March 2019 was the earliest known cases on Europe.

    No worries.
    So that’s the Wuhan Lab Origin Theory out the winda.
    So, what Bioweapon was engineered at Wuhan [on behalf of Fort Detrick, because U.S. Law forbids it]?
    Ans. The fucking Vaccine[s].


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    2
  79. Dover

    I quoted it. Pfizer study had 40% more infections in the vaxx group first week following jab v placebo. The Danish found a doubling of infection v unvaxxed. You can guarantee Pfizer tortured the data to get it down to 40%. I really don’t know what more I can do.

    What do you make of the last sentence, the one I highlighted for you that if correct invalidates your assertion?

    Indeed, the original Pfizer trial demonstrated a statistically significant 40% increase in ‘suspected COVID’, with 409 cases in the vaccination arm in the first week of the trial, compared with 287 in the placebo arm.[2] Other publications have omitted mention of the period immediately after vaccination.[3] [4] There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.[5] Others have raised concerns about this.[6]”

    And to repeat by paraphrasing:
    Your own linked excerpt says there is substantial anecdotal evidence that the people who tested positive after the shot was attributed to exposure prior to the vaccination.
    Also these were `400 people, which is a startling small number to form any conclusion.


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    1
  80. Seriously, if COVID has been endemic since early 2019 (or before), this is the greatest hoax of all time.

    I bet you Werribee are dumping their retained samples as we speak.

    Could be an interesting FOI request/ angle for LDP / UAP to take.

    If it was here in 2019, my guess it was, probably more so than Spain given proximity to Chunkland. Then it’s definitely retribution time.

    Every single fucker that lead this or went along with this gets to stand in front of a bullet marked brick wall for their turn.


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  81. From Brazil – computer hackers have wiped all the vaccine records of every Brazilian …

    Australian hackers, if you can’t turn a government built database inside out in 48 hours you’re shit.


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  82. If it was around in the west in 2019 why did people only start dying in numbers in 2020?
    Oh and wait and see re Brazil; the article I read the data was backed up, and the hackers were demanding a ransom.


    Report comment

  83. Seriously, if COVID has been endemic since early 2019 (or before), this is the greatest hoax of all time.

    It wouldn’t shock me. I had a bout of flu in early 2019 that I will never forget. It was multiples worse than anything I have had before. Curiously, tamiflu the home visit doc gave me didn’t work. It lasted almost 2 weeks. I’ll never forget that one and it came right over the flu vaccine.


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  84. So, what Bioweapon was engineered at Wuhan [on behalf of Fort Detrick, because U.S. Law forbids it]?
    Ans. The fucking Vaccine[s].

    Fuck off and suck on a pangolin’s needle, Grigory.


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    3
  85. Came back from Adelaide to Sydney left 330am .No one at border at Pinnaroo 630am best cheap petrol at Ouyen $1.33. And SA have the gaul to put everyone on from NSW , ACT and Vic on level 3. Because Moronic virus
    Everything I’ve been made to do fully vaxxed can be done by any unvaccinated person.
    And country folk I’ve met via service stations are all government compliant they won’t help you.


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  86. Sewage samples from Spain, dated 12 March 2019 – tested positive for COVID.

    Dot – I think the problem is that the PCR tests on sewage are wound up as high as is possible. The reports we get about Covid-in-sewage here seem fairly laughable.

    Add that omicron looks like a cold virus which is pinging the PCR test, rather than being a mutated Covid. It seems more like what the Chinks used to make Covid from. Which would explain why the “vaccines” have so little effect against it…and why it is so harmless in reality.


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    5
  87. JCsays:
    December 12, 2021 at 8:08 pm

    Interesting. So did I after flying to Townsville to check on my property after the floods. Diagnosed Influenza A after a swab and found out from the Doc it was rampant in the ‘ville after the flooding. Qld Health had apparently flagged it as a concern. Same result, I was bedridden for a week. I hadn’t been like that since I was a child from the flu.


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    4
  88. Observations of Mongyang.

    Went down to where the beautiful people were to get a kebab for dinner. Nelson Parade in Williamstown. Houso flats nearby but no housos.

    Cars promenading. Very late model Mercs, Audis, Mustangs, a Porsche or two, restored two door Chargers and a very early Fairmont, and one immaculate Cadillac driven (without power steering, I might add) by a young bloke with a tasty piece in the passenger seat – just as God intended.

    Talent as far as the eye could see, and it was a warm-for-Mongyang evening. Talent trying not to look stunning, but knowing they are. Talent that gives the impression it’s unreachable, but you know they’re merely a couple of espresso martinis away from a bit of at-venue delight.

    Masks. Worn by some staff in the restaurants and shops, but nowhere near all, and the ones that were with very few exceptions had them around the front of the chin and not over the gob.

    Human nature will prevail over this monstrous series of events.


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  89. Is there a reason we aren’t retaliating over this and other attacks?

    One of our suppliers got hit, they reported it through the Federal system and were blithely told that they were one of 500 for the day. This was 2 years ago.


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  90. Went down to where the beautiful people were to get a kebab for dinner. Nelson Parade in Williamstown. Houso flats nearby but no housos.

    Would have been perfect there today, did you go for a walk along the pier?


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    2
  91. Follow up tests found yuan contamination of the samples.

    Possible, but for a lab with known for being shit for years, only having one leak is highly unlikely.


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    2
  92. The reports we get about Covid-in-sewage here seem fairly laughable.

    The Mongs shut down an entire industrial area in Sunshine for a week over a positive PCR test in a pumping station.

    This is the danger of idiots with a testing regime. Testing should be used to confirm or disprove a theory, not used like a shotgun because fuck knows what you will find.


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  93. It wouldn’t shock me. I had a bout of flu in early 2019 that I will never forget.

    Ditto ..! I went down with, what i thought was, Flu, November 2019, worst I’ve ever had and I’m 73 and have had Flu at least twice a year for the previous dozen or so …. bedridden for 6 days & close on 10 days before I was back on my feet .. so sick I had to get my youngest to feed the dog & cats cos I couldn’t stay on my feet more than coupla minutes at a time …. Never, ever had it sooo bad so reckon that was the biginnings of BAT FLU .. since then the worst I’ve had is several bouts of the sniffles .. nuttin’ else .. !


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  94. Combat soldier, tennis aficionado and well known female impersonator.

    If I was forced to have sex with that Lambie thing, i’d amputate my dick.

    Well, hers at least.


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  95. I got a bit of a dirty look when I presented the tractor and bin log book to the Boss, apparently I ran too many hours and used too much fuel compared to his usual chasers

    Cockys would be struggling to find anything to complain about at the moment. Possibly their tax bill but there should be some carried forward losses to take care of that. And possibly a new Landcruiser to fully write down.


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  96. A conservationist could come to Australia, shoot up a storm, help the farmers and our endangered native animals;

    We’ve got Trophy Animals?
    Would you mount a Camel’s Head or use it as a novelty ashtray?


    Report comment

  97. Practically everything the Spark drivers in NSW operate is air-conditioned. Has been since the coming of the K-, C- and V-sets in the late 1970s.

    The Bradfields had natural ventilation. Driver sat on a stool with both doors open, broad brimmed shunters hat on, sweat rag around the neck, and a ciggie dangling from the lower lip.


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    2
  98. Authoritarian Australia? Why Has Australia Reacted So Severely to Covid?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d3QrH9soX4

    Premiere in progress. Started 41 minutes ago
    The New Culture Forum
    133K subscribers
    On this week’s #SWYSI, award-winning Australian writer and lawyer Helen Dale discusses all things Australia. Why does Australia appear so authoritarian these days? Is this a new phenomenon or is it rooted in Australia’s history and culture?


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    1
  99. Hey, Pol – the CL has posited that this continent could be filled (populated?) with hippos, lions, giraffes, rhinos, cheetahs, bison* and various other african creatures and we wouldn’t even know it.

    Not thinking it’s a bad idea. As the Infidel Tigger used to opine – “This is the world’s largest sheltered workshop for silly useless mammals”.

    *Not the ones in the Nothing Territorah.


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  100. What do you make of the last sentence, the one I highlighted for you that if correct invalidates your assertion?

    This one:

    I’ve had the flu shot as late as July and as early as January.

    Why would that invalidate the thesis that the vaxx makes you more susceptible in the first two weeks post 1 st dose?

    Your own linked excerpt says there is substantial anecdotal evidence that the people who tested positive after the shot was attributed to exposure prior to the vaccination.
    Also these were `400 people, which is a startling small number to form any conclusion.

    The claim re prior exposure would apply to the placebo group as well and yet the vaxxed group is 40% higher. Also, the sample isn’t 400, they are just the number of positive cases in the vaxxed group out of the thousands that are part of the trial.


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  101. Cockys would be struggling to find anything to complain about at the moment

    Those in the Eastern Wheatbelt, who were clobbered by the frost, might disagree. We were looking at the best harvest in twenty years, two nights of five degrees below zero scuppered that one..


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    5
  102. Diogenessays:
    December 12, 2021 at 9:10 pm

    Wow just went down a rabbit hole of my childhood and the red rattlers. Especially the noise through open windows, smell of asbestos brakes and flickering internal lights heading down into the tunnels from central to circular quay or town hall. As much as mum preferred the non smoking cars of the later trains I as a little boy found the rattlers more exciting.


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    3
  103. Cockys would be struggling to find anything to complain about at the moment

    Public servants would be struggling to find anything to complain about this year after sitting on their fat arses in their pyjamas getting paid to do fuck all.


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  104. Cockys would be struggling to find anything to complain about at the moment

    My (ex) Boss is ecstatic over the yield, the quality and the price of his wheat crop this year.
    Like most farmers, he coddles his machinery and is fanatical about maintenance and regular servicing, something I totally agree with, and is careful about operating costs. Oil and grease is cheap, engines and transmissions are expensive.

    Very profitable year and a very generous bonus for Pedro the clumsy chaser bin driver and his juvenile offsiders.

    I believe I may spend it all wisely on some flash city hotel stays, fine dining and expensive plonk.

    Oh the humanity.


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  105. Public servants would be struggling to find anything to complain about this year after sitting on their fat arses in their pyjamas getting paid to do fuck all.

    Pay that one!


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  106. dover0beach says:
    December 12, 2021 at 9:17 pm

    What do you make of the last sentence, the one I highlighted for you that if correct invalidates your assertion?

    This one:

    I’ve had the flu shot as late as July and as early as January.

    No. I explained to you that it was the one from your Pfizer excerpt, and I actually highlightrd and paraphrased it for you. It’s this one

    There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.[5]

    It was actually the penultimate sentence from your excerpt.

    The claim re prior exposure would apply to the placebo group as well and yet the vaxxed group is 40% higher.

    So what? Randomness wouldn’t put it out of kilter. 287 vs 409 is nothing out of the ordinary.

    Also, the sample isn’t 400, they are just the number of positive cases in the vaxxed group out of the thousands that are part of the trial.

    Okay.


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    1
  107. Hey, Pol – the CL has posited that this continent could be filled (populated?) with hippos, lions, giraffes, rhinos, cheetahs, bison* and various other african creatures and we wouldn’t even know it.

    I think that’s the intention when Australia is de-populated (apart from large mines & farms)


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    2
  108. Oil and grease is cheap, engines and transmissions are expensive.

    I’ve encountered the mentality that “well you guys can afford machinery like this, why are you getting so upset about maintenance?”

    Just over thirty thousand dollars, in repairs, because some fool hadn’t bothered to do the basic maintenance..


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    5
  109. Melbourne protest – would prefer no entertainment in a park – many left in dribs and drabs- my reasoning is that it’s best to march in the streets, let the dynamics convey the message – then leave off. Socialising, yes, but as a separate event, later, and not as something intrinsic to the protest.


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  110. Dan Murphy’s limits Champagne sales and allocates Dom Perignon to high-trading suburbs

    Eli Greenblat
    Senior Business Reporter
    55 minutes ago December 12, 2021
    No Comments

    Australians in some of the nation’s most exclusive suburbs are facing a Christmas tragedy – the prospect of rationing Dom Perignon as supplies of the luxury French champagne run low amid global shipping delays and more general shortages caused by the Covid-19 pandemic.

    Dan Murphy’s, the country’s biggest liquor retailer, has been forced to place some buying limits on particular champagnes heading into Christmas, and scarce supplies of Dom Perignon – which can retail for more than $300 a bottle – are being redirected to high-buying champagne suburbs within the company’s store network.

    In Sydney this includes stores in the eastern and northern suburbs such as Double Bay, Mosman and Willoughby, while in Melbourne, the south and southeast such as Brighton and Prahran are being prioritised with Dom Perignon to alleviate any panic over Dom supplies.

    It is believed that Endeavour Group, the company that owns Dan Murphy’s as well as liquor outlet BWS, has almost exhausted its supply of Dom Perignon and is also close to out of stock of Billecart-Salmon champagne as the pandemic causes massive upheaval across global supply chains.

    The champagne supply bottleneck is not unique to Dan Murphy’s, with local distributors of Dom Perignon in Australia desperately awaiting new shipments from France, and while other champagnes are plentiful – as well as Australian sparkling wine – for those lovers of Dom it could be a long and lonely summer.

    The shortage of champagne follows last week’s revelations that the country’s two biggest brewers, Carlton & United Breweries and Lion, had been forced to impose their own buying limits on bottle shops and liquor stores, while a lack of available pallets had caused Lion to temporarily halt the production of some beers to ensure it had enough pallets for other beer brands.



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  111. So what? Randomness wouldn’t put it out of kilter. 287 vs 409 is nothing out of the ordinary.

    What are the normal sample sizes and and margins of statistical significance for clinical trials of this type?


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  112. There was a recent chunk cyber attack on some QLD coal power plants

    You know, I work with computers that control buildings and processes. The machine(s) that we use to do the grunt-work are blindingly powerful.

    Up until about 5 years ago I could easily have hi-jacked the inner workings to build a destructive object that self replicates and distributes itself everywhere it finds another target.

    these days I’d have to hi-jack the ‘provisioning’ system and auto distribute to all end-points.
    be harder but not impossible

    even have an object I call the Insurance Bomb which gets deployed on jobs we do with unknown builders. Saved our skin before too.

    runs hidden.
    has a date of certain death and a killing-floor
    if the date passes, then everything on the killing floor is executed.
    normally I just get all the field communication connectors and turn them off
    but I could just as easily delete the station, delete myself and reboot.
    gone.for.evah

    the stuff we use is near universally deployed.
    its everywhere
    there’s even a badass search engine in dark-web-land that will hunt down internet connected systems.
    You’d be terrified to learn how many of those systems are completely open to remote access.
    I’ve personally been on sites all over the world and edited the home-page with a message that says change your fucking passwords you mongs

    youse may not realise it but the whole world is held together in a pretty flimsy way.
    all good-will and bullshit
    be nice to me

    actually, I’m not yr problem
    a black-hat that knows could easily fuck your universe up


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  113. On the old catallaxy I remember Tel getting an exceptionally bad flu near the end of 2019. Worst he’d ever had he said.
    It is a pity that he has not come on this present newcatallaxy.
    His comments were always good value.


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  114. What are the normal sample sizes and and margins of statistical significance for clinical trials of this type?

    Assuming a reasonable sample size, Neilson. Keep your panties on.


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  115. Story at Unz Review: Jury Nullification nullified.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/jury-nullification-nullified/
    Brutal Murder of a Grand Niece of the founder of Halliburton, black defendant, found guily of Manslaughter, lot of backslapping and shuckin and jivin goin down at the Bar Table, since a Guilty verdict meant Life imprisonment without Parole, at best.
    Anyway the Jury Forewoman declines to agree to the verdict and a Mistrial is declared.
    One of the commenters linked to a Florida Newspaper article which states that the cops initially suspected the son, then DNA at the scene was matched to a black burglar who sounds like a complete psychopath.
    https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/broward-escape-artist-dayonte-resiles-could-face-death-despite-questionable-evidence-8216057
    Here’s the interesting part:
    It turns out that when Forensic Experts tell the Courts that a particular DNA sample is “many millions of times more likely” to come from the Defendant than anyone else, that’s utter bullshit and it’s likely led to many innocent men being jailed here and overseas.


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  116. youse may not realise it but the whole world is held together in a pretty flimsy way.

    One good solar flare to blow out the world’s collection of servers and we’d be fighting for food in the streets in a matter of days.

    Never mind the toilet paper.


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  117. Why would the vaxxed group suffer significantly more from prior exposure in comparison to the placebo group?

    How about the reason given in the link you provided.

    This:

    There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.




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  118. JCsays:
    December 12, 2021 at 10:12 pm
    [What are the normal sample sizes and and margins of statistical significance for clinical trials of this type?]

    Assuming a reasonable sample size, Neilson. Keep your panties on.

    Ok, I’ll put it a different way.
    On what clinical grounds are you asserting that, in a test of this type, “Randomness wouldn’t put it out of kilter. 287 vs 409 is nothing out of the ordinary.”?
    You must have some idea about what the parameters of “ordinary” are for clinical tests of this type in order to say that 287 v 409 is “ordinary”. And you must have some grounds for your idea of those parameters.
    It’s a serious question. I actually want to know what the parameters are and why 287 v 409 is “ordinary” in the context of those parameters.


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  119. we’d be fighting for food in the streets in a matter of days

    Not if you’ve prepared. Not that I’m some sort of conspiracy hypothesist or anything.

    Seriously, peoples – you’re all about to starve to death any time soon?

    Decadent Western personages about 69 minutes after the EMP: “Gee, I’m feelin’ very ‘ungry right about now”.

    Worse than the Cartman, you are.


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  120. Jury Nullification is part of the process, in this instance the Forewoman refused to play along, see the title:

    Jury Nullification Nullified

    DNA Evidence isn’t the Lay Down Misere it’s claimed to be and no one should be convicted on DNA alone.


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  121. There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    The sentence seems to me to be saying that whenever Pfizer was faced with someone getting infected shortly after the jab, Pfizer carved it out of the post-jab infection category – i.e. the 409 excludes the “anecdotal” priors.
    That would be ok if they did exactly the same thing to the placebo group, which they may have, though the extract doesn’t say.
    If they didn’t then the adverse temporary effect of the jab may well be worse than the 287-409 suggests.


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  122. Ask Dover. He put forward the excerpt and I’d assume the population was reasonable.

    But you’re the one who said that 287-409 was “nothing out of the ordinary”, so why should I ask dover for an explanation of that?
    Do you actually have any basis for that statement or not?


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  123. There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    JC, what reason does this provide for the vaxxed group suffering disproportionately more than the placebo group?

    Tim, the number involved in the Pfizer trial was 43651, split almost evenly between trial and placebo group.


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  124. If they didn’t then the adverse temporary effect of the jab may well be worse than the 287-409 suggests.

    Myocarditis, Pericarditis and Cardiac Arrest ain’t “Adverse Temporary Effects”, Timothy.


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  125. Mark McGowan wants Bullsbrook quarantine facility built ‘as quickly as possible’
    Joe Spagnolo The West Australian
    Sun, 12 December 2021 2:00AM

    WA is still owed more than $30 million in unpaid hotel quarantine bills, with the McGowan Government urging the Commonwealth to build its quarantine facility in Bullsbrook “as quickly as possible”.

    With the current cap of 530 international arrivals into WA set to be scrapped in the New Year, WA is hoping unvaccinated arrivals will do quarantine in a yet-to-be completed Commonwealth-constructed quarantine centre at Bullsbrook — rather than Perth hotels.

    “International arrivals are a matter for the Commonwealth,” a WA Government spokesperson said on Saturday.

    “However, the McGowan Government continues to do the heavy lifting with the establishment and operation of its hotel quarantine system over the past two years.

    “It is imperative the Federal Government builds its quarantine facility in Bullsbrook as quickly as possible to reduce pressure on WA’s hotel quarantine system.”

    Currently, all international arrivals into Perth go into hotel quarantine for 14 days.

    Under the WA Government’s COVID-19 transition plan for 2022, double-vaccinated international arrivals into WA who return a negative PCR test 72 hours before departure and a negative test on arrival, will not need to quarantine.

    But the unvaccinated international arrivals into WA will still need to do 14 days quarantine “in a designated facility”.

    The cost of hotel quarantine to the WA taxpayer has been massive.

    More than 28,000 invoices were issued for the period July 17, 2020, to October 31, 2021, at a value of $87 million.

    As of October 31, 2021, a total of just $53 million had been received by the State Government, with 79 invoices referred to debt collection agencies valued at $212,230.

    In a statement to The Sunday Times, Finance Minister Simon Birmingham said the $300 million Bullsbrook quarantine facility would be completed “by the end of the first quarter of next year.”

    Although built by the Commonwealth, the Bullsbrook facility will be State-run.

    “Whilst quarantine requirements continue to evolve as vaccination rates surge and States progressively open their borders, this centre will support any ongoing quarantine requirements through the pandemic,” Mr Birmingham said.

    “The centre will also be there in the long run for Western Australians, boosting medium and long-term capabilities to respond to future pandemics or natural disasters.

    “We continue to work towards stage 1 being completed by the end of the first quarter of next year.

    “The centre is scalable and the designs reflect a capacity for 1000 beds.

    “We intend to review in early 2022 the capacity requirements of the centre, as we near completion of the first 500 beds



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  126. N-KP

    My understanding is that (my best buddy currently re-switching the Muja power station, told me this) that a solar flare mucks up the magnetic field and this in turn causes incorrect values to occur in the grid

    Happy to be corrected


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  127. Myocarditis, Pericarditis and Cardiac Arrest ain’t “Adverse Temporary Effects”, Timothy.

    The discussion is about whether in the two or three weeks after getting jabbed someone is at more rather than less risk of contracting the virus.
    That’s the “temporary” effect under discussion.
    The study wasn’t about those other things.


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  128. JC, that reason does this provide for the vaxxed group suffering disproportionately more than the placebo group?

    Actually it does, because the testing group must be of sufficient size where randomness would spit out the two results. If the test group wasn’t large enough there would be nothing to discuss.

    Tim, the number involved in the Pfizer trial was 43651, split almost evenly between trial and placebo group.

    Okay and you don’t think 287 vs 409 could be spat out from a group that size? Really?


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  129. Okay and you don’t think 287 vs 409 could be spat out from a group that size? Really?

    In other words you have absolutely no idea what the margins of statistical significance are in clinical tests of this type, and no basis whatsoever for assuming that 287-409 is “nothing out of the ordinary”.
    If you do have some actual clinical basis for saying that in a clinical trial of this type 287-409 is within the bounds of statistical significance say so. A reference will do.


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  130. But you’re the one who said that 287-409 was “nothing out of the ordinary”, so why should I ask dover for an explanation of that?
    Do you actually have any basis for that statement or not?

    FMD , you’re pedantic. You would need to ask him what the fucking sample size was as I assumed it would reasonable and he was the one who p0sted the study.

    Do you actually have any basis for that statement or not?

    Dover just confirmed the sample size was reasonable and therefore my assumption was correct.

    Look, stop talking to me as I find you far too pedantic to have a discussion with. Go pester other people.


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  131. The discussion is about whether in the two or three weeks after getting jabbed someone is at more rather than less risk of contracting the virus.

    That doesn’t make much sense.
    Back in Primary School, I was telt that Vaccination gives you a dose of the disease, the ol’ Immune Systyem goes to work, and, Voila, you’re immune.

    Now, that sounds like bullshit, because it is, but the bottom line remains:
    Everyone who is Vaccinated for any disease is gonna test positive 5 minutes later for that particular disease, that’s the General Idea of Vaccination, isn’t it?


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  132. Take Victoria for instance. We had very little vaccination until covid infections began to climb.

    Looking at the charts, Victoria reached 50% single dose and 30% double in early Sept.
    The ”third wave” started to occur around the same time and as jabs have increased so to have the number of infections.


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  133. In other words you have absolutely no idea what the margins of statistical significance are in clinical tests of this type, and no basis whatsoever for assuming that 287-409 is “nothing out of the ordinary”.
    If you do have some actual clinical basis for saying that in a clinical trial of this type 287-409 is within the bounds of statistical significance say so. A reference will do.

    Dover didn’t give us a reference, he gave us the sample size just now, you ridiculous clown. 43,651 was the number. I wouldn’t assume Dover would be posting a fraudulent or faulty study with a sample size that was too small. As I said, go pester other people you pedant.


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  134. Anyway, Sliante to all on the Cat – it’s the Memsahib’s birthday, and there has been a long and somewhat raucous lunch, with good friends, in the Swan Valley, in commemoration of the monumental event.


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  135. You’re the one who said that 287-409 was “nothing out of the ordinary”.

    You “assumed” that the sample size was reasonable.

    Now you say that about 43,000 split approximately evenly between test and control was “reasonable”. That is, presumably it’s in the ballpark of what you were assuming.

    So, in a clinical trial of this type, with 43,000 split approximately evenly between test and control, what clinical grounds do you have for your statement that 287-409 is “nothing out of the ordinary”?
    Maybe you have evidence that normally the infection rate in this kind of trial would be much higher? Or that in this kind of trial only a much larger divergence between the groups would be statistically significant?
    Or maybe you’ve got 0.00000 [recurring to infinity] evidence?
    I’m just genuinely curious about the explanation.


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  136. JCsays:
    December 12, 2021 at 11:05 pm

    So what? Randomness wouldn’t put it out of kilter. 287 vs 409 is nothing out of the ordinary.

    It’s YOUR statement.

    Justify.

    GO!!!


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  137. The ”third wave” started to occur around the same time and as jabs have increased so to have the number of infections.


    Okay, there are a couple of things.
    1. Delta was swirling around which supposedly made the vaccinations less effective.
    2. Aside from 1. why would it have to be the chicken vs the egg and not the egg before the chicken.

    Here’s the pertinent point from Dover’s very Pfizer link. It suggests strong anecdotal evidence that:

    There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    At best Dover’s own linked study is inconclusive for the argument he’s made, in that the vaccinations cause people to contract covid a short interval after the jab. At worst if the evidence was true, it invalidates everything he’s said. There is not a shred of even an atom in favor of the argument being made that the vax helps people get the virus very shortly after being jabbed.


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  138. Justify.

    GO!!!

    Okay

    Dover’s words, not mine

    Tim, the number involved in the Pfizer trial was 43651, split almost evenly between trial and placebo group.

    Now fuck off and stop wasting everyone’s time!

    Go!


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  139. Tim, the number involved in the Pfizer trial was 43651, split almost evenly between trial and placebo group.

    And how does that validate: So what? Randomness wouldn’t put it out of kilter. 287 vs 409 is nothing out of the ordinary.?

    Answer – it doesn’t, and JC has been caught bang to rights in a totally fact free evidence free piece of bloviation.

    Refutation?

    GO!!!


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  140. There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    Perhaps, but then that means the two weeks of isolation for a close contact even if you test negative is bullshit. Shouldn’t it then be at least three? Which means the protocol for vaccination is at the bare minimum of time that should pass between vaccinations. Not the optimal time, just the bare minimum in an ideal case.

    The problem people have with this JC isn’t one particular rule or assertion is incorrect, but the preponderance of rules that put together make no sense and were made by a prevaricating ruling class that thought we would not notice they are lying.

    They are lying because they cannot back down as they chose to be hysterical and they cannot lose face. They committed to the most overblown forecasts and thought dishonesty was best (for example, why masks were discouraged at first – because they thought hospitals would run out).

    Instead, “the science changed”, never “we were wrong”, “we gave misguided advice” or “we overreacted and we are sorry…(we materially hurt you through economic and social damage and the withering of your civil liberties and common law rights…)”.

    Another one: the PCR test is the gold standard – but PCR tests showing COVID has been around for a long time are incorrect – also, rapid antigen testing is good enough to go to a worksite, is now illegal in WA. Testing is anti-vaxx…

    I am sick of the lies and arrogance.


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  141. If you didn’t know a thing about the data or what it was associated with you would readily conclude that the chart representing vaccinations is causative to the chart representing infections.

    Something predicted by several highly qualified doctors.


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  142. Answer – it doesn’t, and JC has been caught bang to rights in a totally fact free evidence free piece of bloviation.

    Yep, sure has because the sample size was large enough for the difference to be meaningless.The difference is tiny. 409/21,825 = .0187 vs 287/21,825 =.0131. It’s not even a rounding error. Add in this point:

    There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    It makes the entire argument preposterous.

    Best you explain why you consider such low values having very meaningful attributes to the argument being made.

    Go!


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  143. Perhaps, but then that means the two weeks of isolation for a close contact even if you test negative is bullshit. Shouldn’t it then be at least three? Which means the protocol for vaccination is at the bare minimum of time that should pass between vaccinations. Not the optimal time, just the bare minimum in an ideal case.

    The problem people have with this JC isn’t one particular rule or assertion is incorrect, but the preponderance of rules that put together make no sense and were made by a prevaricating ruling class that thought we would not notice they are lying.

    They are lying because they cannot back down as they chose to be hysterical and they cannot lose face. They committed to the most overblown forecasts and thought dishonesty was best (for example, why masks were discouraged at first – because they thought hospitals would run out).

    Instead, “the science changed”, never “we were wrong”, “we gave misguided advice” or “we overreacted and we are sorry…(we materially hurt you through economic and social damage and the withering of your civil liberties and common law rights…)”.

    Another one: the PCR test is the gold standard – but PCR tests showing COVID has been around for a long time are incorrect – also, rapid antigen testing is good enough to go to a worksite, is now illegal in WA. Testing is anti-vaxx…

    I am sick of the lies and arrogance.

    Dot, we have absolutely no fucking idea about this virus and still don’t.


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  144. Best you explain why you consider such low values having very meaningful attributes to the argument being made.

    Poor old logic fail JC.

    I wasn’t the one making any statement – you were. I’ve just been asking you for your evidence.

    And you’ve totally failed to come up with any evidence at all as to what the expected infection rate would be in a clinical trial of this type and size, or what degree of difference in a trial of this type and size would normally be regarded as significant.
    In other words you’re admitting that you’ve got 0.0000 [recurring to infinity] evidence that in trials of this type and size 287-409 is “nothing out of the ordinary”.

    Please fell free, even at this late stage, to refer me to your authority for what levels of infection might be expected in trials of this size and type, and what the boundaries of statistical significance are in trials of this size and type.

    But you can’t. Because you don’t have any. You’ve got no idea. You’re just bloviating.


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  145. Dot, we have absolutely no fucking idea about this virus and still don’t.

    The government refuses to admit this and instead has decided to blow the economy and civil liberties.

    Closet to two years of government cock ups. The virus could have been around for three. Pandemics have never lasted this long, as a general rule.

    This is a textbook case of humanity defrauding itself. What a massive waste.

    Put together the realities of:

    1. A very elderly and comorbid cohort of the dead.
    2. Natural immunity was already largely prevalent.
    3. A draconian lockdown that blew up society, the economy and civil liberties – and some rules were just absurd nonsense.
    4. The virus could have been globally endemic since at least March 2019.
    5. Banning therapies that work, being spiteful about better vaccines that are more effective and more safe.

    Government is a joke and their reaction to COVID was just another gem of public mismanagement.


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  146. Poor old logic fail JC.

    No it isn’t . It’s a legitimate question that you refuse to answer.

    I wasn’t the one making any statement – you were. I’ve just been asking you for your evidence.

    Doesn’t matter who made the statement. Dover subsequently backed up what I said in that the sample was of reasonable size. That’s something you doubted at first and then ended up being whacked over the head with it.

    And you’ve totally failed to come up with any evidence at all as to what the expected infection rate would be in a clinical trial of this type and size, or what degree of difference in a trial of this type and size would normally be regarded as significant.

    You can’t. No one can you dummy. It would be like using either New York’s infection rate or NSW over the history of the bug. What we do know is that .0187 – .0131 = .0056 is statistically insignificant.

    In other words you’re admitting that you’ve got 0.0000 [recurring to infinity] evidence that in trials of this type and size 287-409 is “nothing out of the ordinary”.

    It’s correct. Over the sample size these numbers are tiny. You can tell use why the difference is significant. You won’t though because you can’t.

    Please fell free, even at this late stage, to refer me to your authority for what levels of infection might be expected in trials of this size and type, and what the boundaries of statistical significance are in trials of this size and type.

    See above.

    I’m still waiting for answers to questions I posed to you.

    Go!


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  147. Why would these numbers be any different from the other numbers produced?

    ..0056 is tiny. You’re still ignoring the elephant you yourself brought into the room which is from your own excerpt:

    There is substantial anecdotal evidence of people who had tested negative prior to vaccination, becoming infected shortly afterwards, invariably attributed to exposure just before vaccination.

    If there’s substantial anecdotal evidence of people who were exposed to covid before the vaccination (in the 409 group) how can you argue that vaxxes cause covid over the short term. There is absolutely no basis for your claim. None.


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  148. JC, just to help you out in proving that the differences in the study really are clinically “nothing out of the ordinary”.

    Here’s a reference to a study with about 30,000 subjects split between test and control.
    Note the statement that 151 cases would give 90% power to detect 60% difference.
    Compare that to 43,000 participants split evenly, and a total of 696 cases, with the result being 409/287=142.5%.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2035389

    For analysis of the primary end point, the trial was designed for the null hypothesis that the efficacy of the mRNA-1273 vaccine is 30% or less. A total of 151 cases of Covid-19 would provide 90% power to detect a 60% reduction in the hazard rate (i.e., 60% vaccine efficacy),

    Hmm, on second thoughts maybe that doesn’t help you much…

    But no matter, that’s just one study that emerged easily on an internet search. I’m sure you’ll have much more compelling evidence that 287/409 in the study in question can just be dismissed as random “nothing out of the ordinary”.


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    3
  149. To complete the estimate of a probability of an event in this population, a measure of uncertainty must be placed around this point estimate. In this case, the standard error (SE, not to be confused with the SEM described earlier) is calculated with the classic formula. This formula indicates that the square root of the function of the probability of event (p), times the probability of no event (1-p), divided by the sample size (n) is the standard error (SE) of the event rate. The SE multiplied by the Z score of the tolerance for Type I error is one-half of the range for a confidence interval of the same tolerance for Type I error (Note: for information regarding Type I error, see section on “Are the results of the study significant?”).

    For this example, the SE is calculated by:

    Sqrt(p(1-p)/n)
    So say half the group = n= 22000, P = 0.014, 1-p = 0.986.
    The answer is 300+/- 17
    ..
    Don’t quote me, because I avoided stats like the plague.
    Someone who actually knows how to do stats might like to do the actual relevant calculation.


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  150. Pedro
    Why do you need to work? You have half of Fort Knox’s gold equivalent stashed in a huge vault.

    from JC @ 9.55pm

    Don’t need to work JC. The farming gig was to help out the local community unable to get workers for the harvest last year.

    Same thing again this year, no backpackers, no interstate agricultural workers due to WA border closure, so I got volunteered to go farming again.

    I worked the gold mining and exploration game for 30+ years and it has been very kind to me. Retirement was a payoff for all those hard years of grubbing in the red dirt and a modest stash of physical gold pretty much inflation proofs my future. Hardly Fort Knox quantity, sadly.

    Mining is a tough business, often high risk and dependant on commodity prices for success or failure, but compared to the financial risks that farmers take every year it is about as risky as having a guaranteed unsackable PS government job.

    Feeling pretty good that I have once again contributed a bit to the nation’s wealth in a very minor way and have never stuck my hand out for .gov money.


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  151. Doc.

    You’ve never argued about stats and it’s supposed to be your forte. Perhaps you could come out of your ivory tower and impart your wisdom.

    Ironically, you remind of the dude who was supposedly a world rated chess player sitting at our trading desk. He never played anyone who challenged him because if he lost a game it would have been the end for him.


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  152. . Dover subsequently backed up what I said in that the sample was of reasonable size. That’s something you doubted at first and then ended up being whacked over the head with it.

    That’s a straight out lie. I never “doubted” that the sample dover was talking about was of a reasonable size – I just asked you to give your grounds for saying that 287/409 was “nothing out of the ordinary”.


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