Open Thread – Tue 31 Jan 2023


The Surrender of Granada, Francisco Pradilla Ortiz, 1882


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H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 5:27 pm

Oh God.

Will he be reporting to Bosi?

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 5:28 pm

Noice pogria! And another thing…I bought some marvellous bread tins back at the dawn of time – the ones made from a single heavy gauge sheet and folded to make a rectangular tub. Good tins also make good bread.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 5:28 pm

Mother Lode:
I linked it because there is somethings that only the Professor can say. Goes up to about the 2:30 part, although the rest of the vid is interesting too.
I was distracted by the suit.
Is this another affectation like refusing to capitalise first letters of a sentence?
In which case it’s just bloody annoying and jarring, and takes away from the message.

hzhousewife
hzhousewife
February 2, 2023 5:30 pm

Love my breadmaker, Panasonic, makes a too tall loaf but I mostly use it to make the dough only, then bake it in oven using loaf tins. Also use it to compote fruit, make batches of pizza dough to freeze, and have baked the occasional cake. Saves heaps of time. You modify your recipe over time and learn how to vary flours and additives etc., a lot of fun.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:31 pm

The People’s Cube have an hilarious post on the recent Davos flog.
Scroll down for a trip through memory lane. There is a clip from both both V series of Diana eating a rat.
The memes are too funny.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:31 pm

The People’s Cube have an hilarious post on the recent Davos flog.
Scroll down for a trip through memory lane. There is a clip from both V series of Diana eating a rat.
The memes are too funny.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:32 pm

WOW! How did that happen?

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 5:34 pm

Roger,
I saw your comment earlier. I too, make my own passata and various sauces.

Just thought I’d skite a bit, Pogria…bad form, I know 😀

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 5:34 pm

Good thinking, it’s just that I’m a bit leery of food equipment that’s been through someone else’s hands that I can’t satisfactorily clean.

That would be every piece of commercial food prep equipment then. Just pocket the savings. If bread makers are anything like rice cookers all the important bits are spun aluminium and nonstick coated anyway. I just find a good baker, slice it myself and freeze it. I figure I am never going to come close to them regardless of how many loaves I make. Bread basically off the menu now anyway.

Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Govt Covid Stupidity

Sure VIK POL refused to pay costs for McLachlan’s criminal defence but he is pursuing them for it

Vicpol have have ignored one court order to pay Mr. McLaughlan. They can simply ignore a second order. Simple.

as he also filed against Shane Patten personally a few months ago for malicious prosecution etc.

Perhaps the court will order Patten to pay money to Mr. McLaughlan.
Then Patten can, just like Vicpol, announce he won’t be paying, nah nah naaaaaah.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 5:38 pm

Speaking of pizza…did I mention I made pizza sauce with my tomatoes?

Roger – have you seen those Gozney ovens? They look like a great toy.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:38 pm

Calli, I have a few of those. They are great. I have a decent collection of old Australian made Willow metal ware. Also Metters boilers. I use them all. Also have a copy of the Sixth Edition of the Willow Housewife’s Handbook of Cookery. Great recipes interspersed with advertisements of various Willow products. About eighty years old. Very precious.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
February 2, 2023 5:41 pm

The Albanese government has ruled out increasing the GST and abandoned Labor’s 2019 election policy to wind back capital gains tax breaks for investment properties and shares.

That “reparations” package, for the “First Nations” after the treaty is signed, isn’t going to fund itself…

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 5:41 pm

Duncanm:

Cast iron pot with lid. Pop it in the oven.
Look up ‘no knead bread’

Bin there/Dun that.
Electric oven – either they’re on or they’re off.
I want to turf the bloody thing out but can’t get anyone to install gas stovetop and oven.
I don’t understand rural Australia. I’ve put up for quotes for new roofing twice, a freestanding fireplace twice, the gas oven conversion once, a new concrete/reo driveway – for which I got a quote essentially a 20 meter x 4 meter slab 5 years ago for $26K!
No one wants the little jobs, just the bigger guvvie ones. And they exhort people to buy local!
Rant over.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:42 pm

Roger, it isn’t skiting, it’s a skill! Always great to chat with a fellow preserver. At first I thought hmmm, going off topic a bit but, this is an Economics blog and what better way to economise than to make your own product. That’s my excuse.

Fair Shake
Fair Shake
February 2, 2023 5:44 pm

Fingerbun.

Oh Im sorry I must have walked into the wrong blog. Thats ok, ill see myself out…

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 5:44 pm

Court orders can be used in Petitions for Bankruptcy. Ignore them at your peril. Or just wait till they try and get a mortgage down the track. They are usually much more conciliatory.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 5:45 pm

I have an electric oven, Winston. Maybe you just need to upgrade, or maybe the thermostat has gone buggerap.

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 5:50 pm

…so its curious why the child in utero is deserving of the protection of the law from the world except where its denial is the intent of the mother.

Feminism.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
February 2, 2023 5:52 pm

So the IMF is 100% on board with destroying wealth creating cheap, reliable energy sources that underpin modern nations provided we tax houses and everyday goods more?

Was this the spokesman?

cohenite
February 2, 2023 5:52 pm

Perhaps the court will order Patten to pay money to Mr. McLaughlan.
Then Patten can, just like Vicpol, announce he won’t be paying, nah nah naaaaaah.

Lawsuits against wallopers are usually for misconduct not pursuing criminal charges based on complaints from citizens. McLaughlan discontinued claims against the sheilas which is where the primary cause of action lies. Any claim against the cops will be more difficult because he has to prove they knowingly pursued criminal charges which they knew or should have known had no basis.

Has any court actually made orders against the wallopers?

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 5:53 pm

…this is an Economics blog and what better way to economise than to make your own product.

Surely sound economics begins with the household?

As to preserving I’m a late bloomer, Pogria, but I’m quite proud of myself.

There’s a lot of satisfaction to be had in the simple things of life.

Frank
Frank
February 2, 2023 5:55 pm

Fingerbun

Raise you a finger monkey.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 5:55 pm

Robert, how far out of town are you? I am forty minutes out of town and you would think I lived on Mars. Last week I thought I was going to need an emergency pump replacement. The local guy who does all the pump and irrigation work is booked out for nine weeks. He told me he used to have four guys working for him but they all buggered off to easier jobs. He’s on his own, can’t find any replacements.
You’re right, everyone wants the big money/easy jobs.
Fortunately, the pump only had a minor problem, thank God. The fella delivering my gas was able to fix it.

Big_Nambas
Big_Nambas
February 2, 2023 5:56 pm

We have had a Panasonic bread maker for 25 years it was reasonably cheap and still works perfectly.
It’s been around Australia and Perth to Darwin 11 times in the motor home.
Hard to beat.

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 5:56 pm

Roger – have you seen those Gozney ovens? They look like a great toy.

Next on the wife’s wish list I believe, Bear.

caveman
caveman
February 2, 2023 5:56 pm

Six figure sum. More taxpayer money thrown at something that should never have happened in the first place.

Could have got more if it was in the ministers office naked after 12am in Parliament House.
Ahh the old adage,
location! location! location!

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 5:57 pm

That would be every piece of commercial food prep equipment then

Exactly Bear.
And think of the sort of vermin that are invariably attracted to food preparation premises.
I used to do a lot of food preserving in my youth, along with other family members.
Not going to bother trying to fend off possums, fruit bats, parrots, rats etc from home grown any more.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 5:57 pm

Pogriasays:
February 2, 2023 at 5:42 pm
Roger, it isn’t skiting, it’s a skill! Always great to chat with a fellow preserver. At first I thought hmmm, going off topic a bit

Pogria this is the open thread anything can be discussed, perfume, stiletto shoes, pizza ovens, pickling – it adds to knowledge and to the spice of life – thank you for your contributions

Speedbox
February 2, 2023 5:58 pm

dover0beach says:
February 2, 2023 at 5:39 pm
Dad often tells me when he was a little kid, he and his brother would head off to the bakery for bread for Sunday lunch but occasionally arrive home empty handed as the bread was so good they’d eaten it all on the walk back unintentionally.

Oh yes. As a family we used to holiday at Pt Elliot, a small coastal township about 70kms south of Adelaide. We kids would dutifully walk to the local bakery each morning and on walking back we would gouge out some of the centre of the loaf and also eat part of the crust. Always made sure that we left at least half a loaf and certainly enough for mum and dad to slice off 2-3 (thick) pieces of bread to have with fresh strawberry jam and a cup of tea.

It was so long ago but jeez they were good days.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
February 2, 2023 6:00 pm

Warming means more cold.

I’ve always been confused about this.
If global warming causes cooling what does global cooling cause?
And if global cooling causes cooling like global warming does how can you tell if the cooling is caused by global warming or global cooling?

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 6:06 pm

In the middle of doing some research and I’m looking at the Vic abortion law. It’s effectively up to birth

Dover it’s the same in New South Wales after the 2019 election it was first piece of legislation promoted by that grotesquerie Gladys Berajiklian, never ever advised the electorate that that was the plan. I hope there is a 10th circle of hell for politicians like her – mendacious and evil

Farmer Gez
Farmer Gez
February 2, 2023 6:07 pm

Get down the pub Rob and buy a few beers for any tradies you run across.
Local work is about relationships.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 6:09 pm

Pogria:

Duncanm,
if you want to make a sandwich loaf with your no-knead dough, just bake it in the usual way in a loaf tin. You won’t have that awesome crackly crust, but it is still delicious.

Noted.
Stolen.
Ta.

Barry
Barry
February 2, 2023 6:09 pm

Dickhead Dan of course chooses today, the day of Pell’s funeral, to announce the details of Olivia Newton John’s memorial service.

Just to remind everyone that there will be no Victorian memorial for Pell, and that Dan has the power to decree it.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
February 2, 2023 6:09 pm

Albo to fold like a $5 China beach chair?

Childcare workers push for 25 per cent pay rise as fees set to reduce

Childcare workers want the federal government to give them a 25 per cent pay rise in the upcoming budget to stem the flow of workers leaving early childhood education just as cheaper childcare subsidies are introduced.

In its budget submission, the United Workers Union said action on better pay for early childhood educators was long-overdue amid fears an understaffed sector will not be able to cope with increased demand come July 1 when subsidies expand.

So much demand that they NEED the government to legislate the payrise?

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 6:09 pm

We lived in a small country town and the carrier would bring the bread fresh and still warm wrapped in brown paper and tied with string. My after-school snack was to cut a thick slice and smother it with olive oil and salt – what a delight.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:11 pm

Thanks Tinta.
Can’t wear stilettos anymore but perfume! aaaahhhhh
Perfume is for everyday NOT just special occasions.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:14 pm

Tinta,
Gladys and the Kiwi horse face will rightly rot in hell for their Abortion Laws. I only wish it were sooner.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 6:16 pm

Just to remind everyone that there will be no Victorian memorial for Pell, and that Dan has the power to decree it.

George Cardinal Pell’s memory is/would be sullied by the very utterance of his name by the deformed knob known as Daniel Andrews. Today George Cardinal Pell was farewelled and interred in the crypt of St Mary’s glorious cathedral. The people who came to his magnificent requiem mass did so because they knew him to be a good and holy man who served his God and his Church with determination, grace and dignity. May he rest in peace.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
February 2, 2023 6:18 pm

Bon an expert in climate change would know, trouble is there are none.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 6:19 pm

Gladys and the Kiwi horse face will rightly rot in hell for their Abortion Laws. I only wish it were sooner.

. Retribution is for the long and short term. Their ignominy and ignobility is sufficient in the short term and I know God will take care of the long term.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:21 pm

Robert, you are most welcome. No-knead bread lends itself to all sorts of flavouring also. Add dried fruit, no need to soak it as it absorbs moisture from the long rise time. Add a little Rye flour. Fruit loves Rye. I also add Rye flour to fruit cakes.
One of my favourite breads is made by adding a little polenta, a can of creamed corn and some stinky Pecorino and chilli flakes to the mixture. The slow rise really draws out the flavour. When stale, excellent for fried bread.
Before I forget, an old, very old when I met him, Swiss baker, told me to add a tablespoon of vinegar to my dough. It stops the bread from going mouldy for a lot longer than usual. I swear by it and have done so ever since.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 6:23 pm

dover0beach says:
February 2, 2023 at 5:33 pm

In the middle of doing some research and I’m looking at the Vic abortion law. It’s effectively up to birth. It distinguishes between 1st/2nd trimester and 3rd trimester. Abortion in the former is at will, the latter needs the agreement of two medical practitioners, where they both ‘reasonably believe that it is justified in all the circumstances’, where the circumstances can include the medical condition of the child, or the physical, psychological or social condition of the mother. Nothing is said about the seriousness required for any of these conditions/ circumstances, or even how these decisions can consistently be made across different medical practitioners. Another interesting tidbit is that though serious injury against the child in utero is still a crime, they amended the Crimes Act to exclude serious injury via ‘medical procedure’, so its curious why the child in utero is deserving of the protection of the law from the world except where its denial is the intent of the mother.

Okay

To keep on this topic I brought up a few days ago, is an artificial womb a better alternative to abortion, say perhaps in what are considered legitimate exceptions early on in conservative US states?

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 6:24 pm

Can’t wear stilettos anymore but perfume! aaaahhhhh
Perfume is for everyday NOT just special occasions.

Pogria stilettos – love ’em – I shouldn’t wear ’em but I do – and my dear Sunbather gave me a perfume called My Way for Christmas — I feel young/er when I wear it, so I’ll need a new bottle sooner rather than later, because I want to get back to about 35. 😉

Anchor What
Anchor What
February 2, 2023 6:27 pm

Tinta, come and see me when you get to 45.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
February 2, 2023 6:29 pm

Tinta you can’t beat wog food. They know how a few simple ingredients make the best taste. I saw Rick Stein recently with a young grik lady doing a lamb dish. He said best ever and people would pay a fortune in a flash restaurant for it. Cooks have got away from taste to flash presentation of mediocre food. Got some lamb shanks from Nowra Fresh. Expensive but the best I’ve made. It wasn’t that long ago they were $3.50 kg.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 6:29 pm

Pogria:

Robert, how far out of town are you?

I live in town.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 6:32 pm

Always made sure that we left at least half a loaf and certainly enough for mum and dad to slice off 2-3 (thick) pieces of bread to have with fresh strawberry jam and a cup of tea.

It was so long ago but jeez they were good days.

After school, starving and the bread man had just delivered. Memories of sneaking a bit off the half-loaf of high-baked white to nibble, and then being allowed a slice with butter and tinned jam from the Balgay cannery up the road and a cup of tea with milk from the cow I’d milked that morning. No French pastries back then.

And now, today, as we strolled around near the ice-rink full of memories of skating with our kids (for we skated as a family back then) at Macquarie Centre in Sydney and at Rockefeller Centre in New York one Christmas-time, I spied an old man. He was sweeping in this main square surrounded by modern high rise buildings, fancy hotels and streams of the latest cars in the nearby streets – and he was sweeping with a a twig switch tied to a broomstick, the kind that features as a witches’ whisk and which hasn’t changed in composition for thousands of years – ever since humans settled down and had to get the litter out of their dwellings. Some things, I reflected, still do stay the same.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 6:35 pm

“grotesquerie Gladys Berajiklian,”

Love you Tinta…..and it was a joy to be with you today at St Mary’s Cathedral to farewell a great man.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:36 pm

Oh Tinta,
if I wore stilettos now I would topple over like the giant cookie in Shrek! I live in work boots and sandals. The closest I would get to a high heel is a Cuban heel. I can’t even pull on a pair of elastic-sided boots anymore. I looked up My Way. It sounds delicious. Must have a sniff when next I am in town.
35 is a great age to be. You’ve been there, done that a few times. Generally have experience, been around the block, had a child or two, and still able to dance the night away and have a killer bod. Yes, a wonderful age.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
February 2, 2023 6:36 pm

bonssays:

February 2, 2023 at 4:14 pm

Sancho. When he put up the proposal that an impost levy of 1.5% be imposed on listed companies to pay for parental leave. Companies would not be allowed to claim the levy as a tax payment, just a cost.
The impact on franking credits was estimated at 50%.

Can you do the maths on that?
What was the 1.5% levied on and how did it translate to a 50% reduction in franking credits.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 6:37 pm

Bruce of Newcastle:

And if global cooling causes cooling like global warming does how can you tell if the cooling is caused by global warming or global cooling?

Trust you to stuff it up Bruce.
Global warming causes global cooling depending on whether it’s in the first three days of the week, especially during Summer.
The reverse is also a viable theory if Jupiter aligns with Mars.
Or that used to be correct until Pluto lost its way and got inside Neptunes orbit and was demoted to minor planet status.
And of course the latter days of the week are different – in the Northern hemisphere.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 6:37 pm

Cooks have got away from taste to flash presentation of mediocre food.

Definitely so. And the food hasn’t been improved by the tendency of a lot of mid-range ‘gastro’ places to cut corners and work from pre-prepared foods or ingredients. We’ve had more unimpressive meals than impressive ones in all of the eating out we’ve done during travels over the past year.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 6:39 pm

Do you like float tanks, feelthebern?

Personally I find the whole “healing modalities” angle a little too hokey & cliche and prone to a high frequency of fly-by-night businesses, but the technology has really come into its own, for PTSD and anxiety.

The whole float tank industry is a really fascinating mix of maverick physicians and new agers that really combines synergystically to give those with stress and other catchall maladies a real boost. It is comparable to a lower cost and less intense therapy session, but you could say it is the ultimate in self talk and gestalt therapy.

In 2021, there were over 15 million “floats” or treatments administered in the US, which is pretty high considering the COVID restrictions we had. I think the undisputed masterpiece of float tank use is the application of the therapy to the US Navy Seals for post combat mental illness and to accelerate physical healing which makes recovery for veterans an absolute ironic joy given their acronym and the bizarre research the float tank progenitor Dr John C Lily got up to later on with dolphins and consciousness. The concept of inter special telepathy is a concept so risible as most people probably don’t consider Lily’s underlying intentions. But they should, because it’s not just about astral travel, talking to animals or studying the physiological reactions of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system with minimal stimuli, it is also a critique of our wonderful psychiatrists who get trapped in a cycle of only ever prescribing medications instead of doing CBT work.

Hey Pfizer!

Delta A
Delta A
February 2, 2023 6:43 pm

Speedboxsays:
February 2, 2023 at 5:58 pm

Oh my goodness, Speedbox! Best Man has been relating your story almost word for word for the past 60 years*. He even lived in Port Elliot!

He tells it much as you do: Mum sending him off to buy a half of those double hump high tops, the ones with the warm, fragrant bread flakes in the middle. Then allowing himself just one little morsel. And maybe another.

Eventually, like you, he had to trim the crust back to the level of the remaining bread. And he got away with it for ages until his mother, newly arrived from Germany, ventured herself to the bakery. “Ooh! Zees loaves are bigger today,” she exclaimed.

*60 years is as long as I’ve known Best Man. And they said it wouldn’t last.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 6:44 pm

Pogria:

a can of creamed corn

My favourite scrambled egg recipe consists of a dozen eggs, 1.5 liters of milk, one can 350g creamed corn + salt pepper etc.
Cook and divide x 5.
Brekky for a week.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
February 2, 2023 6:45 pm

OK.
So I get the franking credit thing.
The levy would be like, say, a workcover levy or payroll tax, not treated as an income tax, increasing the credit from 30% to 31.5%.
So the argument against it is that it is an impost on business, not that it is “taking away” franking credits.
I think whoever came up with a “50% impact” on franking credits was putting a bucket of mayo on it.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 6:47 pm

1.5 liters of milk

In god’s name how on earth you cook this monstrosity?

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:47 pm

Robert Sewellsays:
February 2, 2023 at 6:29 pm
Pogria:

Robert, how far out of town are you?

I live in town.”

Wow Robert,
things are bad for you. Although, as Farmer Gez noted, the pub is a great place air any requirements you may have. I also found my local rural store to be great for finding a local who could use a few quid in exchange for some work. It’s only the skilled worker that is harder to find.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 6:48 pm

Mincing Marr gets a spot in this weeks Media Watchdog. As usual.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 6:48 pm

Here’s to the ladies who still wear stilettos! I’m definitely not one of them, being rather shambolic and clumsy.

I can do a kitten heel pump though. 😀

Just.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 6:49 pm

Ahahah! Mincing Marr and kitten heel pumps.

I love the most excellent flow of comments.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 6:49 pm

My favourite scrambled egg recipe consists of a dozen eggs, 1.5 liters of milk, one can 350g creamed corn + salt pepper etc.
Cook and divide x 5.
Brekky for a week.

mmmmmmmm, topped with hot sauce!

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
February 2, 2023 6:50 pm

In its budget submission, the United Workers Union said action on better pay for early childhood educators was long-overdue amid fears an understaffed sector will not be able to cope with increased demand come July 1 when subsidies expand.

So much demand that they NEED the government to legislate the payrise?

Well, yes.
The extra demand is going to come from Mother Government’s generosity in increasing the subsidy paid to childcare providers. It’s called Cheaper Childcare.

So obviously someone has to find the extra childcarers required to meet the legal ratios. But not to worry, I’m sure Top Men will have thought all this through.

Top Ender
Top Ender
February 2, 2023 6:51 pm

Well argued:

Why we shouln’t give voice to ‘crackpots of history’CHRIS MERRITT

The real issue at this year’s indigenous voice referendum is a question of principle: Will we abandon the egalitarian nature of Australian democracy?

Will we, in other words, join the crackpots of history by introducing into our Constitution the concept of racial preference that lies at the core of this referendum?

Or will we defend the ideals of liberal democracy that emerged in revolutionary America and France?

We are being asked to give one racial group – and their descendants for all time – constitutionally guaranteed additional influence over all areas of public policy. If you tick the right race box you would gain political influence exceeding that enjoyed by everyone else.

The proponents of the yes case see things differently.

Some have argued that the voice would be merely symbolic; a benign way of showing solidarity with Indigenous people by giving them a say on matters that affect them. Others have described it as a path to empowerment.

But that’s not the real story. This referendum is not about reconciliation. Nor is it about symbolism and being nice. It is about establishing a new institution of state that would permanently change our system of government.

It would require us to abandon equality of citizenship by giving constitutional standing to a race-based entity that could go beyond indigenous affairs and involve itself in all policy debates.

The proponents of the voice say it is the solution to years of policy failures on Indigenous affairs. They say it is justified because parliament can already make special laws on indigenous matters and this will merely allow Indigenous people to have a say on those laws.

But if closing the gap on disadvantage and making better laws on Indigenous affairs were the true goal, why has the constitutional provision been drafted in a way that would permit this entity to dissipate its efforts across the entire range of federal public policy?

Why did the proponents of this change decline to confine the voice to matters that only affect Indigenous people, or even primarily affect Indigenous people?

Without such limits, this looks like an attempt to establish a shadow government that would be free to develop policies on everything. Those policies would be framed as advice but, according to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, it would be a brave government that ignored its advice.

Governments would find themselves making trade-offs, not just with the Opposition and various groupings in the Senate, but with members of the voice.

Because it would have an unlimited jurisdiction and a narrow, race-based constituency, it is entirely foreseeable that government policy on key issues could be skewed away from the broader national interest in order to appease the voice or gain its support.

All groups in society, including Indigenous communities, have interests that need to be balanced. Giving constitutional standing and public funding to any community group would rig the process of balancing conflicting interests and allocating resources, which is the core business of government.

This debate has become confused, mainly because of the lack of community-wide consultation. The blame rests with the government which has not provided detailed and independent legal analysis on the proposed change.

It also chose to break with tradition by failing to prepare pamphlets with official arguments for and against the voice.

That is bad enough. But it has even tried to stifle debate by implying that those with concerns about this proposal are racists.

On November 25 last year, just before the abandonment of the traditional information pamphlet became official, Pat Dodson, the government’s special envoy on reconciliation, told a panel discussion on the voice in Melbourne: “The government is not interested in supporting any racist campaigns, which will have an impact on the question of the pamphlet.”

Voting no is not racist. We are being asked to abandon the great principle of equality of citizenship – the same principle that was forcefully expressed by American revolutionaries Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin who considered it self-evident that we are all created equal.

Revolutionary France, under Jefferson’s influence, embraced this idea in its Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen. It is also present in the first sentence of the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

If the referendum succeeds, everyone would still have the same right to vote and to seek to influence public policy. But Indigenous citizens would have something extra. They would be represented not only by their members of parliament but by a lobby group with constitutional standing, public funding and its own bureaucracy.

Those who quibble about whether this would create an extra right for Indigenous people have missed the point. The reality, regardless of how it is termed, would be that Indigenous citizens would have greater constitutional standing than others.

This would put an end to the idea that all Australians have an equal say on how this nation is governed. It would kill reconciliation by fostering resentment against the beneficiaries of such an unfair and unprincipled system.

Australian democracy might not be perfect. But it is the result of a great multicultural project, drawing on the doctrine of equal treatment and the experience of all peoples represented in parliament.

This referendum should be rejected – primarily because it is wrong in principle but also because the proponents have failed to provide the community with enough information to make a fully informed decision.

They have forgotten that the Constitution draws its legitimacy from the entire community – not from politicians and insiders.

Chris Merritt is vice-president of the Rule of Law Institute of Australia

Oz

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 6:53 pm

Dot:

To keep on this topic I brought up a few days ago, is an artificial womb a better alternative to abortion, say perhaps in what are considered legitimate exceptions early on in conservative US states?

The two aims are – to my understanding – opposite.
Abortion destroys the foetus.
An artificial uterus succours it.
(Unless I’ve got it all arse about.)

Miltonf
Miltonf
February 2, 2023 6:54 pm

Great comments from Cassie and Tinteralla about the funeral today. I also agree it’s best to leave places like Bellevue Hill and Mosman and Killara to the teals or whatever

Delta A
Delta A
February 2, 2023 6:55 pm

Here’s to the ladies who still wear stilettos!

That would be me, calli. I can wear the highest,slinkiest stilettos all day and half way through the night. Easy peasy when you’re sitting on your butt all day in a wheelchair.

JC
JC
February 2, 2023 6:55 pm

I also agree it’s best to leave places like Bellevue Hill and Mosman and Killara to the teals or whatever

Where does the support come from then?

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 6:56 pm

I’m saying there is a technology which makes abortion redundant. It weakens a lot of the arguments for abortion.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 6:58 pm

We could live a world where the progressive Cathedral and big C conservatives both want artificial wombs banned. That’s fascinating.

Miltonf
Miltonf
February 2, 2023 6:58 pm

Where does the support come from then?

from the outer suburbs, ex urbs and the regions

cohenite
February 2, 2023 7:00 pm

Bon an expert in climate change would know, trouble is there are none.

I am. Years of surfing has given me a nonpareil expertise.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:01 pm

1.5 liters of milk

In god’s name how on earth you cook this monstrosity?

Seriously, this seems like an utter nightmare!

JC
JC
February 2, 2023 7:02 pm

Anyone hear Camel Harris at Tye Nichols funeral giving a eulogy?

……. a young man who should be here today….

The dude should be at his own funeral? Lordie.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1620875086176653330

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:04 pm

Lizzie:

We’ve had more unimpressive meals than impressive ones in all of the eating out we’ve done during travels over the past year.

I last ate out about three years ago. Unimpressive food, I’m over it.
I can cook unimpressive food at home a lot cheaper than another chef.
But then I’m still locked into the mince and snag + mashed potato routine I had as a kid and was damned grateful for. Comfort food.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 7:04 pm

Tinta you can’t beat wog food.

You’re telling me – being one myself I love Italian food, slow cooked ragu, melanzane alla parmigiana, polenta with chicken alla cacciatora, Middle Eastern food has great sappore too — I make a lamb shank tagine which is very very nice a recipe by Annabel Langbein, a little spicy but by gingo it’s tasty — oh dear this is making me hungry better stop.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 7:05 pm

A reflection on my day, and perhaps one on saying goodbye to Cardinal Pell too…

I visited my friend who’s in aged care today, mentioned in dispatches this morning. She won’t be returning home, this will be her final place to live. She’s an old Christian warrior, full of zeal and love for her maker, a faithful servant to her church and her community. I had the privilege of being her Bible study leader for a few years, but truth be told, she led me.

And now, here we are, at the tail end of life, reduced to a room with a pleasant view and a bathroom attached. And here’s the thing…the words that were so many over the years – opinions, interpretations, greetings, comfortings – are all reduced too. Just two words, said over and over with a smile and a twinkle in her eye.

Thank you.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 7:07 pm

Anchor Whatsays:
February 2, 2023 at 6:27 pm

If it’s for a faster acting reverse-ageing perfume, will do. 🙂

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 7:08 pm

(or an antecedent?), of Chronus (the Greek god of time, to whom Pytheus the Geographer likened the main god of the Britons). Same root word I think, referring to time, just as dyus (Greek for a generic god) stems from a PIE word for day (or daylight). The ancient PIE father god was a shining celestial time lord – a god of the stars – which it seems was recalled (via Arthur) in the name of Coelestius, aka Old King Cole.

Too much etymology and various linguistic overlaps in the PIE period to go into now, on holidays, but it is fascinating stuff.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 7:09 pm

keep on this topic I brought up a few days ago, is an artificial womb a better alternative to abortion

I can’t see how one solves the other.
Third trimester abortion is often mostly about children with disabilities.
You think children with disabilities won’t be flushed from artificial wombs, or even if mum and or dad change their mind?
If abortion of a child within you is of little account for so many, imagine how easy to abandon one in a baby factory.
And personally I think you discount, far too much, the importance of the relationship forged between mother and child as the child grows in the womb.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:09 pm

Did you see the studies I linked to (yesterday) lizzie?

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:11 pm

What I am saying is that this technology weakens the pro abortion arguments.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 7:11 pm

Will we, in other words, join the crackpots of history by introducing into our Constitution the concept of racial preference that lies at the core of this referendum?

Huh?
The Proposal is for a Body that will advise Parliament.
Should Parliament fail to act on the Advice, the High Court may give them a hurry on.
That’s the issue.

Or will we defend the ideals of liberal democracy that emerged in revolutionary America and France?

Gimme a break.
The British Parliament betrayed it’s Armies in America and the French Revolution was a byword for slaughter and bloodlust for 150 years.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 7:13 pm

CHRIS MERRITT

Always worth reading.

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
February 2, 2023 7:13 pm

Cassie of Sydney says: February 2, 2023 at 3:54 pm

Firstly, there was no speculation on my part, I witnessed the crowd size

Cassie, you indulged in speculation about when the photo was taken by your use of “probably” and when I called you on it, you avoided and deflected and pretended I was talking about whether you were there and saw the crowds or not, which was never in question because I believed you were there.

Secondly, it was you who made the facetious and nasty comment

Still waiting for the quote you were challenged to produce earlier and which you have dodged and deflected about so far.

Here is the link to the comment I made which has been so hated upon by precisely one person. https://newcatallaxy.blog/2023/01/31/open-thead-tue-31-jan-2023/comment-page-7/#comment-448714

This is an open invitation to any other reader who can take the simplest interpretation of that comment and find any “facetious and nasty comment” in that comment.

in which you compared the pictures of the protesters to a picture of the cathedral probably taken early in the morning

Two lists with headings is not a comparison. Happy for any other reader to read the linked comment above and find where *I* compared the pictures of the two groups. Remember if you do a comparison of the photos, that’s in your head, not because I wrote down any comparison of my own. I simply relayed the descriptions and photos of another Reddit user who was there.

and your comment was also an attack on Dover’s comment.

That was not the intention and there is nothing in the comment which could possibly be misunderstood as being so, you’ve simply made that up. My comment could just as easily be interpreted as providing supporting evidence for Dover’s interpretation. After all, if in fact the mourners outnumbered the protestors at their peak, there is no straightforward interpretation of any genuine photo that could contradict this, right?

I called you out on it. The thing is Crispy, you like to dish it out, so be prepared for it to be dished right back.

That is absolutely the pot calling the kettle black.
No I actually don’t like to dish it out. Open invitation to all the cyberstalkers who inhabit this forum, tell me how far back in time before today you have to go to find the most recent instance of Colonel Crispin Berka making a nasty comment towards any other user of this forum? If you go back far enough you may find one probably, but it must be so long ago I can’t remember. So how long ago was it, and how does that compare to the frequently-nasty users of this forum who clearly do like to “dish it out” to each other in their now famous recurring stoushes? Happy for anyone to do the comparison and decide whether I have any track record whatsoever on verballing or stoushing or generally liking “to dish it out”. I know what the answer is.

Mate, I don’t even hassle m0nty about his weight in a forum where doing so is apparently considered cool and normalised amongst the regulars, and you want to claim I like dishing it out? Absolutely couldn’t be further from the truth.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:13 pm

Dot:

In god’s name how on earth you cook this monstrosity?

Moderate heat in an 8l spaghetti cooking pot. How do you do it?
It’s a good size for browning a kilo of chopped bacon and onion in as well, just to kick it off.

Pogria
Pogria
February 2, 2023 7:13 pm

Calli=Legend.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 7:13 pm

One of the good things about staying in Palermo’s historical centre is that other on Via Roma vehicle traffic appears to be limited to local residents and deliveries, major streets like Via Maqueda and Via Victor Emmanuel II are more or less walking streets.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:14 pm

LIZZIE

Dot says:
February 1, 2023 at 6:45 am

Surrounded by swamps, and once where the Roman fleet sailed in.

Begging your pardon ma’am, which one?

Have you seen the recent (2021 ?) research papers based on DNA analysis showing an explanation for Q and P Celtic is that there was a very early wave of migration into Britain and Ireland and then followed up by a more recent one which only went into what is more or less England and Wales (& Pictland IIRC)? So you got a newer culture speaking Brythonic with a PIE based religion closer to the Nordics whereas Goidelic being the basic for Scots Gaelic, Irish & Manx and the Irish religion of the shining ones being similar (like the good god being a lot like Odin) but overall a little different in a lot of ways.

The point is the Irish are an exceptional version of Celtic culture because arguably they broke off as proto Celts and they’re not generally representative of all Celtry.

???

and this will make the crazy anti English “Celtic Britains” of modern day go crazy.

Based purely on linguistic arguments, the simplest scenario would be that Old English and Old Irish share a prehistoric common phonetic basis because Old English developed on a substratum of a form of Primitive Irish Celtic (not British Celtic or British Spoken Latin).

Celtic influence on Old English: phonological and phonetic evidence

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 01 July 2009

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/english-language-and-linguistics/article/abs/celtic-influence-on-old-english-phonological-and-phonetic-evidence/031D934EFDAC66296D2E26E4A8D946E9

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
February 2, 2023 7:19 pm

Top Ender says:
February 2, 2023 at 6:51 pm
Well argued:

Why we shouln’t give voice to ‘crackpots of history’CHRIS MERRITT

Well argued indeed.
For me, the core concern is captured in three paragraphs:

…this looks like an attempt to establish a shadow government that would be free to develop policies on everything. Those policies would be framed as advice but, according to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, it would be a brave government that ignored its advice.

Governments would find themselves making trade-offs, not just with the Opposition and various groupings in the Senate, but with members of the voice.

Because it would have an unlimited jurisdiction and a narrow, race-based constituency, it is entirely foreseeable that government policy on key issues could be skewed away from the broader national interest in order to appease the voice or gain its support.

The legal argument that The Voice is not a Third Chamber is a crispy Straw Man.
Clearly it’s not.
Nobody sensible suggests it is.

But it is conceived to connect straight into the weak points that lead to corruption of the existing process of government – self interest, incompetence, and flabby political accomodation of the shoddy and second rate.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 7:20 pm

“Where does the support come from then?”

It’ll come from the suburbs, if I’m looking at Sydney (where I live and a city I know), it will be seats like Lindsay, Werriwa and yes, even Fowler (won by Dai Le).

For example, the electorate of Lindsay, which is in Sydney outer west, was until recently a bell weather seat. It flipped at almost every election. However, despite the fall in the Liberal vote last May, the Liberals won Lindsay comfortably. The Liberals have greatly increased their votes in seats like Werriwa (Gough’s former seat) and I believe that one day soon they’ll win Werriwa. And look at what Dai Le accomplished as an independent in Fowler….Keneally crashed and burned. Then there are other seats like Reid and Bennelong which will be returned to the Liberals.

JC, I reckon that at least half the Teal electorates will be returned to the Liberal fold in 2025, if not all of them. The Teals have already exposed themselves for being the hypocrites, empty suits and vacuous lowlifes they truly are, just look at Daniel and Lard Arse Ryan who’s becoming a caricature. However, let me say this, the Liberals must cease relying on winning these seats to win government. They need to move on.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:20 pm

I’ve seen fairly good linguistic arguments lately that King Arthur meant something to do with being seen as having bear like qualities or being an overreaching father – like Odin, Woden or Dagdah (Ollithair).

Is this an etymology of Oliver/Olaf as well?

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 7:21 pm

Innes Willox & Jennifer Westacott reportedly promising to “work together with government in good faith” as Jim Chalmers institutes his command economy.

Corporate capitalists clearly believe they’ll do well out of this.

.

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 7:21 pm

it was a joy to be with you today at St Mary’s Cathedral to farewell a great man.

Cassie likewise and thank you for coming with me to respectfully share the occasion and honour George Cardinal Pell.

And wasn’t it a comfort to see the multicultural mourners from all parts of the world. People from the Philippines, Vietnam, China, many parts of South East Asia, Africa and the Middle East

I saw among the mourners a few men from an interesting group called Knights of the Precious Blood a movement of Roman Catholic men who pray the rosary once month in the forecourt of St Mary’s Cathedral — The next date is 4th February 1-2pm there is confession at 11;30am for Midday mass in the Cathedral. I think there are many Catholic Croatians involved judging by the wording on the T-shirts of the men I saw.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:22 pm

Pogria:

Although, as Farmer Gez noted, the pub is a great place air any requirements you may have. I also found my local rural store to be great for finding a local who could use a few quid in exchange for some work.

I’ve been uncomfortable going to my local hotel since I was ordered out for being unvaccinated a couple of years ago. Not their fault, they’d been dragooned into being a part of the law enforcement of the COVID hysteria. So I only go once or twice a month now.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 7:23 pm

Winston’s monstrosity sounds like something we’d cook for the multitude of kids at sailing camp. With sliced tomatoes and cheese on top.

Nothing left of course. They were like the marabunta in The Naked Jungle.

Miltonf
Miltonf
February 2, 2023 7:23 pm

Lard Arse Ryan

Team Mon yuk. Reaks of narcissism. Would like her to be my doctor that’s for sure.

Miltonf
Miltonf
February 2, 2023 7:24 pm

***Correction***Wouldn’t like her to be my doctor that’s for sure.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 7:26 pm

DOT – above was part of my reply to you, but the hotel or Cat internet went crazy and chopped the first part off. I did see your comment.

Alerted you to the fact that Richborough, a comment made as I was dashing for the plane at Heathrow, was not about genetics but about how the Isle of Thanet had become infilled since Roman times, when it was a landing place for Roman invasions (which had little genetic impact).

On the genetic-linguistic material, I’ve briefly looked at the links. Barry Cunliffe is a professor in this field and is a proponent of the earlier up the Atlantic coast migration theory, which I agree with, and which seems to have introduced the Goidelic strain of the older Q-Celtic into Britain and Ireland, then followed by the P-Celtic Brythonic type. Goidelic came into northern Britain via the Irish linkages. It mingled early on with Brythonnic, finally superceding it in Scotland. Then various Nordic elements were also introduced (quite early I suspect). It’s a mixture now in language and the important point often made is that language and culture doesn’t have to be genetic to transfer.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 7:28 pm

“No I actually don’t like to dish it out. “

LOL, yes you do. You delight in making snide comments against certain commentators such as myself. I have posted comments and threads and lo and behold, you come on and make nasty and belittling comments. You’re entitled to make those comments, and I’m entitled to respond.

And no, I try and avoid stoushes. I simply like to post comments on current issues, one of which was the funeral I attended today of a great man where I witnessed the protest first hand.

bons
bons
February 2, 2023 7:31 pm

Canavan attended the funeral. What a good man.
Come on Matt exert your skills and go for leadership.

Top Ender
Top Ender
February 2, 2023 7:34 pm

Ed, isn’t Merritt’s article saying that over a millennium now, and through many struggles in various countries, we have arrived at a concept which we have embraced?

One adult human being is equal to one vote.

And now a group of Australians want to alter that.

Do you disagree with that concept?

Miltonf
Miltonf
February 2, 2023 7:34 pm

The whole Pell persecution has a strong Alinsky stench about it.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:35 pm

Dot:

I’m saying there is a technology which makes abortion redundant. It weakens a lot of the arguments for abortion.

OK, I’m late to this argument.
I cannot see how artificial wombs make abortion redundant.
Unless you’re postulating the abortion process includes the implantation of the aborted foetus into an artificial womb?
Is that your premise?

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:36 pm

One net taxpayer has one vote.

I propose…”responsibilitism”.

Veterans vote for the executive, they know how bad war actually is.
Taxpayers vote for a lower house and the states appoint Senators.

Bar Beach Swimmer
February 2, 2023 7:36 pm

Once upon a time in hollywood is on tonight at 8:30 on 7mate, if anyone’s interested

caveman
caveman
February 2, 2023 7:36 pm

First taste of the voice , RBA talk in to the digiknees as to what they would like on the $5 note.

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 7:36 pm

Winston’s monstrosity sounds like something we’d cook for the multitude of kids at sailing camp. With sliced tomatoes and cheese on top.

Yum!

Throw in some diced Spam too.

There’s a You Tube site called Hillbilly Kitchen or similar that rehashes (sic) Depression era dishes that stretched the budget for large families at the time.

Frugality is the daughter of necessity.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:37 pm

Unless you’re postulating the abortion process includes the implantation of the aborted foetus into an artificial womb?

Why not…”oh no I really want to kill this baby”?

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
February 2, 2023 7:38 pm

Still waiting for that nasty quote from this morning, and still waiting for an actual nasty comment to be found prior to today instead of being alluded to by vague assertions.
Until then … how can I say this in politest way because I actually don’t like dishing it out… Casssie’s interpretation is unique.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:38 pm

How on earth do you make scrambled eggs with such a ridiculous volume of milk? Bloody insanity.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 7:40 pm

Is this an etymology of Oliver/Olaf as well?

I believe it to be one. Just as Alfathir (Alfoor) is an etymology for Arthur. The general term is All-Father. It has many variants in what some call a ‘name scatter’. Ulifer is still a man’s name in Norway. Alador on this name scatter is well attested as the name of a Frankish deity, turned folklorically into a lineage elder. Other proxies for the All-Father abound – e.g. Coel (Old King Cole) relating to the Sky-Father celestial elements (e.g. the Bear Constellations of Ursa Major and Minor), and Arturius – for similar celestial signs relating to the Basque PIE word for father, which is Atar, which in itself relates to Ator (still a man’s name in Spanish Basque), which relates to the PIE word Tor, which signifies a bull, or bull-cult things, such as godlike heights (Taurus mountains), or torrents of water, the ‘tor’ element signifying forceful and loud etc.

My paper in Quadrant in 2018 has had some fairly widespread appreciation in the Arthurian field especially in the UK where I have been in correspondence with some academics and enthusiasts about its contents, it is being cited in the literature, and is no doubt having an impact on how people are now thinking about the Arthurian corpus and the origin of the name.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 7:43 pm

How on earth do you make scrambled eggs with such a ridiculous volume of milk? Bloody insanity.

Quite. Scrambled eggs at volume when you’re not in charge is a risk not worth running.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 7:43 pm

And now a group of Australians want to alter that.

What group would that be, Top?

Indolent
Indolent
February 2, 2023 7:44 pm
hzhousewife
hzhousewife
February 2, 2023 7:44 pm

What to put on the $5 note that represents the long and deep history of our beloved aboriginal natives.
I vote for the nulla-nulla.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 7:45 pm

Yesterday I made a comment where I wrote “I think the wheels are beginning to fall of the Albo train“, given what’s ensued in Alice and the fallout from his fly in, fly out to Alice. But how what does Crispy write in return…


Colonel Crispin Berkasays:
February 1, 2023 at 4:27 pm
I think the wheels are beginning to fall of the Albo train.

The last time I heard this hyped-up talking point that went nowhere, it started with “The walls are closing in…”

Reason does not seem to prevail in auspol, so all reasonable talk of an Albo derailing are premature.

A sneer insinuating that I lack “reason”.

For the record, I don’t lack reason.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 7:45 pm

A pan bake, Dot. Like a savoury custard. It barely holds up, but is delicious on toast. You can make it betterer with some cream instead of milk.

The one we used to make for camp had powdered milk on account of a fridge the size of a small Esky. For sixty hungry mouths.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:46 pm

rosie:

And personally I think you discount, far too much, the importance of the relationship forged between mother and child as the child grows in the womb.

+ a gazillion.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
February 2, 2023 7:46 pm

Miltonfsays:

February 2, 2023 at 6:54 pm

Great comments from Cassie and Tinteralla about the funeral today. I also agree it’s best to leave places like Bellevue Hill and Mosman and Killara to the teals or whatever

I don’t quite agree with that. I don’t believe Libs should compromise to chase “Teal” votes (as they have done). But they should compete on a traditional Liberal platform. Sure, they may take a hit in the short term, but the Teals will be a passing fad. We’ve already seen Monique Ryan having a bun-fight with her Chief-of-Staff and one of the Sydney Teals caught feigning attendance at some event or other whilst skiing overseas.
They swept in on “the feels” with zero scrutiny. In fact, any scrutiny was attacked as my-sog-a-neeeee!
The party is over and the exposure will not be kind.

flyingduk
flyingduk
February 2, 2023 7:46 pm

Corporate capitalists clearly believe they’ll do well out of this.

I believe the correct term is ‘fascists’

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 7:46 pm

I will concede Bills scrambled eggs would have to go in the Sydney pro column.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 7:47 pm

“Once upon a time in hollywood is on tonight at 8:30 on 7mate, if anyone’s interested”

A good film.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 7:47 pm

Thanks for the link on the substratum base, Dot. Probably basically the way it happened.

Linguists like to aim for perfection. Not achievable though, language is too fluid.

flyingduk
flyingduk
February 2, 2023 7:48 pm

I’ve been uncomfortable going to my local hotel since I was ordered out for being unvaccinated a couple of years ago. Not their fault, they’d been dragooned into being a part of the law enforcement of the COVID hysteria.

No problems, they were just ‘following orders’

cohenite
February 2, 2023 7:48 pm

Business as normal in latest Geller:

Trump Was Impeached For A Phone Call -To Prevent Him From Finding Out What Biden Was Actually Doing In Ukraine (Bio-Labs etc)

Zelensky Ordered Destruction of All State Docs Associated with Hunter Biden’s METABIOTA Labs

Hunter Biden’s MetaBIOta Labs Received Tens of Millions of Dollars in DOD Contracts, Experimented with Bat Viruses

bons
bons
February 2, 2023 7:51 pm

Sancho. Trying to remenber the details, but from memory, on top of the imposition was a 50% reduction in franking credits that would also be directed towards parental leave.
It was pure idiocy that Abbott should have understood.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 7:51 pm

“The party is over and the exposure will not be kind”

Agree but there’s someone here who might regard that as a ” hyped-up talking point”

Indolent
Indolent
February 2, 2023 7:53 pm
bons
bons
February 2, 2023 7:53 pm

The question being, was it treasury or the RBA who wrote the IMF Report?

sfw
sfw
February 2, 2023 7:56 pm

Never use milk in scrambled eggs, if you must add liquid add cream, you should be able to make them without other liquids.

Heston and Ramsay say that the first thing they get a new applicant to is eggs, poached, scrambled, omelettes etc. If they can’t poach an egg they can’t do anything.

Indolent
Indolent
February 2, 2023 7:56 pm
Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 7:56 pm

Corporate capitalists clearly believe they’ll do well out of this.

I believe the correct term is ‘fascists’

As they say, one man’s corporate capitalist is another man’s Fascist.

The writing has been on the corporate walls (& doors) for some years now.

Every bank on the bank row at the shopping centre I frequent, bar the two community owned ones, has a sign or two on the front door proclaiming their virtues according to the new model morality.

flyingduk
flyingduk
February 2, 2023 7:57 pm

One adult human being is equal to one vote.

And now a group of Australians want to alter that.

Do you disagree with that concept?

I disagree with the concept of ‘one person one vote’ UNLESS there are strict limits to exactly *what* said person can vote for. The problem with combining welfare states and democracy is the ease with which the masses can ‘vote themselves largesse from the public treasury*’. This always, always, always leads to the breakdown and bankruptcy of the country. One vote for all is only sustainable if backed by a strong constitution which severely limits government and prevents the majority voting to take my stuff. In time, however, even if such constitution exists, it gets progressively bypassed until the whole enterprise collapses anyway. Exhibit A – The US Constitution.

* Actually, not from the public treasury, but from the ever shrinking proportion of the citizens who are ‘net positive’ producers.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 7:57 pm

As primary elections are rather brutal mini civil wars, I don’t get why the Democrats generally would protect Biden before he was the candidate, unless:

1. Obama controls the party.
2. The generic (R) and (D) vote from swing voters is massively important.

How can you prove Zelensky ordered documents destroyed?

Ukrainian document released to Russian media outlet, @izvestia

So it is unconfirmed so far. Why not release it to American dissidents? I’d trust Assange or Snowden over either US or RUS spooks.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 7:58 pm

calli:

Winston’s monstrosity sounds like something we’d cook for the multitude of kids at sailing camp. With sliced tomatoes and cheese on top.
Nothing left of course. They were like the marabunta in The Naked Jungle.

Calli, how do you think they cook meals for a company in the army? Or the navy?
They just do damn near the same thing with scrambled eggs without the bacon and stuff and pour the liquid onto a flat griddle and flip with a paint scraper (it looks like). Just keep turning until voila! scrambled eggs!
We had a dirty great wood stove in the Home and that’s how cook did it for 36 kids. And an 8 slice toaster. I swear the lights would dim when that sucker got loaded up!

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
February 2, 2023 8:00 pm

Cassie to her credit makes the effort and quotes me from yesterday:

Reason does not seem to prevail in auspol, so all reasonable talk of an Albo derailing are premature.

A sneer insinuating that I lack “reason”.
For the record, I don’t lack reason.

🙂
You just made a mistake in reasoning.
I told you that talk of an Albo derailing was reasonable, implying the wheels should fall of the Albo train, but then I said they are not beginning to fall off because what is reasonable routinely doesn’t happen. That’s not saying you are unreasonable.

I said you were falling for hype the same as the USA Dems fell for their own “walls are closing in” hype about Orange Man. On that point it is really an issue of how soon Albo has to be given the flick for your opinion to be borne out by events. Like all PMs he will depart eventually. In truth I cannot disprove your opinion about the Albo train because you did not nominate an end date for Albo.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 8:02 pm

The wheels aren’t falling off the Albo Train yet.

Turns out the AFP were briefing Peter Dutton on the Higgins Case, which brought down the Morrison Government.

Should the Sofronoff Inquiry into the conduct of Criminal Justice Agencies involved in the Case find any problems from Dutton’s end, then the Liberals will be looking for a new leader

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 8:03 pm

A new page in the Book of Feuds (h/t Roy & HG) opens up.

Indolent
Indolent
February 2, 2023 8:03 pm
calli
calli
February 2, 2023 8:04 pm

Calli, how do you think they cook meals for a company in the army? Or the navy?

I have a pretty good idea. 😀

Hungry teenagers who’ve been out on the water all day aren’t interested in the niceties of fancy food. But that was long ago – these days they’d want sushi.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 8:05 pm

Dot:

Why not…”oh no I really want to kill this baby”?

Not trying to be a smartarse, but I don’t understand your reply.
Can you elaborate?

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 8:05 pm

“You just made a mistake in reasoning.
I told you that talk of an Albo derailing was reasonable, implying the wheels should fall of the Albo train, but then I said they are not beginning to fall off because what is reasonable routinely doesn’t happen. That’s not saying you are unreasonable.

I said you were falling for hype the same as the USA Dems fell for their own “walls are closing in” hype about Orange Man. On that point it is really an issue of how soon Albo has to be given the flick for your opinion to be borne out by events. Like all PMs he will depart eventually. In truth I cannot disprove your opinion about the Albo train because you did not nominate an end date for Albo.”

Enough with the pontificating, Crispy.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 8:07 pm

Dot:

How on earth do you make scrambled eggs with such a ridiculous volume of milk? Bloody insanity.

Dot, there’s a dozen 800g eggs in it.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 8:07 pm

Oh and I’ll reiterate what I wrote yesterday, “the wheels are falling off the Albo train”.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 8:07 pm

Which might explain yesterday’s man but opportunist Tony Abbott’s interest in returning to Canberra?

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
February 2, 2023 8:08 pm

Dotsays:

February 2, 2023 at 7:38 pm

How on earth do you make scrambled eggs with such a ridiculous volume of milk? Bloody insanity.

Milk is a trace element in scrambled eggs.
A mere splash.
Not 50:50.
That is Pommy cooking.
And I never buy scrambled eggs in a cafe. They are inevitably cooked in bulk and kept warm for hours until they achieve the consistency of partially cured silicone sealant.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 8:11 pm

A woman wants to have abortion. She is given the choice between just doing it or having the fetus transferred to an artificial womb and being put up for adoption later on.

“Oh no, I really want to kill this kid”

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 8:11 pm

umm, Crispy, if I may call you such. In a nice way, of course.

Picking someone up on small matters of possibly debatable accuracy can turn into what can seem like an attack when the picker-up keeps on going on about it. This is a blog and somehow, in spite of our different ways of doing things, we all have to manage to get along for the greater cause, which is that of not agreeing with lefties. I know Cassie and she is a most rational and entertaining companion and like many people of strong opinions (I should talk) she can get very hurt sometimes (again, I should talk). Note that I said ‘people’ of strong opinions, not women, because this cuts across both male and female (and as we all know, there aren’t any others we have to worry about).

So maybe, Crispy, you could let this drop now and appreciate the things Cassie says that you can heartily agree with. There must certainly be lots of those if you don’t like leftism. Agree where you can, and if you have to disagree, think of a good way to do it without harping on and on or scroll and let silence be your friend.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 8:14 pm

And I never buy scrambled eggs in a cafe.

Def rolling the dice. OK if it’s your regular Saturday morning haunt. Apparently my old Melbournibad one burnt down, which wasn’t a reflection on their cooking.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 8:17 pm

Flying duk:

No problems, they were just ‘following orders’

I was just being polite, FD. 🙂

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 8:18 pm

And I never buy scrambled eggs in a cafe. They are inevitably cooked in bulk and kept warm for hours until they achieve the consistency of partially cured silicone sealant.

I strongly suspect that there is a sort of scrambled eggs powder that comes in tins and which is used by hotels worldwide to make the bright yellow sludge that at their breakfasts they call scrambled eggs.

My only evidence for this supposition is personal and ideosyncratic and without solid foundation.
I consider the eggs themselves to be solid enough to stand on their own merits there.

H B Bear
H B Bear
February 2, 2023 8:19 pm

And I never buy scrambled eggs in a cafe.

A sound policy in a UK caff. Likewise not getting the coffee.

Roger
Roger
February 2, 2023 8:20 pm

One vote for all is only sustainable if backed by a strong constitution which severely limits government… however, even if such constitution exists, it gets progressively bypassed until the whole enterprise collapses anyway. Exhibit A – The US Constitution.

The American Founding Fathers were under no illusions as to how fragile and subject to corruption by majoritarianism their republic was. Yet they still considered it a better model than monarchy, but only if the citizenry remained virtuous (in the classical sense). They -and we – have long since passed that point. Yet even in decline our system remains preferable to the alternatives of Communism or Fascism in their contemporary iterations.

Cassie of Sydney
February 2, 2023 8:21 pm

Oh and Sarah Dingle’s book “Brave New Humans: The Dirty Truth Behind the Fertility Industry” was mockingly dismissed by Crispy as a “tearjerker”. Actually, Dingle was donor-conceived from anonymous donor sperm and she only found out when she was in her late 20s. Naturally, Sarah found that quite disturbing and upsetting and who wouldn’t?

Anyway, I’ll leave it there. There are other examples, oh Crispy, do you wear red shoes?

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
February 2, 2023 8:23 pm

Enough with the pontificating, Crispy.

Explaining precisely how you are mistaken is pontificating?
Geez, I’m kinda insulted. (not really)
Pontiffs need to appeal to higher powers, ancient apparitions, texts of unknown providence, and their own socially appointed authority.
I needed only logic and English.
Does this make me the pontiff of the Albo Train? Chuggah chuggah chuggah. Do I need to wear a big hat? Must I mix ice-cream with beer, because I draw the line at that. Ruins the ice-cream.

But I agree with the general gist of your instruction and shall let this feud rest here.
If you optionally choose to make one more comment in reply to this I will treat that as your last word on the subject and not as an attempt to prolong or restart the feud.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 8:24 pm

Just saw the young man who pestered me yesterday, with his sister, three younger siblings and cigarette smoking mama.
Suspicions confirmed.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
February 2, 2023 8:27 pm

bonssays:

February 2, 2023 at 7:51 pm

Sancho. Trying to remenber the details, but from memory, on top of the imposition was a 50% reduction in franking credits 

Yeah, I can’t remember the full details either.
Look, it wasn’t a shining exemplar of A-grade policy.
I just think the 50% cut in franking credits might have been mathematically possible in a really low margin business.
But this is what pisses me off about some of these advocacy groups. I ditched one of those tax advocate’s newsletters for that very reason. They were always giving doomsday examples which were designed to gee-up the troops, rather than give a real world likely outcome.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 8:27 pm

Gypsies?

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 8:28 pm

Depends on the café. But yes, some of them are hideous. Like poachies, they can be done ahead of time.

We are talking about two different things though with our pan made to order and stuff done in the oven. I’ll leave it to the old fashioned cooks to work it out.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 8:30 pm

Dot.
You might be surprised.
How many people with frozen embryos excess to requirements offer to donate them to infertile couples.
Anyhow your artificial womb technology, if it ever eventuals will be so expensive, so wasteful it will be used only by the very very few.
Womb renting will continue to be much cheaper.

calli
calli
February 2, 2023 8:30 pm

It’s times like this I miss the old Cat chef Pauly.

He was fun…and knowledgeable.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
February 2, 2023 8:33 pm

“Daily Mail.”

Incredible moment a woman bends over and gives birth at a PUB – as a burly security guard does his best to catch the newborn

Mum gave birth in a Cairns pub with the baby dropping on the floor
Footage showed the woman stooping over in labour
Baby seen sliding out before a security guard picked up the infant

flyingduk
flyingduk
February 2, 2023 8:35 pm

Yet even in decline our system remains preferable to the alternatives of Communism or Fascism in their contemporary iterations.

The decline in our system *is* Fascism in its contemporary iteration.

flyingduk
flyingduk
February 2, 2023 8:38 pm

The American Founding Fathers were under no illusions as to how fragile and subject to corruption by majoritarianism their republic was.

*If* you can keep it…

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 8:40 pm

You might be surprised.

Probably not.

How many people with frozen embryos excess to requirements offer to donate them to infertile couples.

Are they offered that option themselves? Artificial wombs could enable that.

Anyhow your artificial womb technology, if it ever eventuals will be so expensive, so wasteful it will be used only by the very very few.

No they already exist and they’re not “wasteful”.

Womb renting will continue to be much cheaper.

Probably not.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
February 2, 2023 8:41 pm

What should Lizzie do? Look out of the window from her 28th floor eyrie.

Seoul now glitters with thousands of lights. A slow dusk gently falls into Seoul’s mountain-ridged basin.
It’s an LED city, light that brightens but does not warm. Minus 6 degrees tonight.

We’re staying in.

Boambee John
Boambee John
February 2, 2023 8:45 pm

Ed Casesays:
February 2, 2023 at 7:11 pm
Will we, in other words, join the crackpots of history by introducing into our Constitution the concept of racial preference that lies at the core of this referendum?

Huh?
The Proposal is for a Body that will advise Parliament.
Should Parliament fail to act on the Advice, the High Court may give them a hurry on.

You see nothing wrong in principle about a race-based body with special access to government? Where were you in 1970?

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 8:45 pm

I’m cooking brekky for the next week.
1 dozen eggs,
1.5 liters milk,
big pinch of black pepper,
a bit of salt.
stir on lowish heat…
I’ll be back.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 8:49 pm

1 dozen eggs,
1.5 liters milk

You’re awful.

Shy Ted
Shy Ted
February 2, 2023 8:52 pm

Taxpayers get the bill for-
the cops, their salaries, the lawyers and admin behind them and the police hierarchy. They should be sacked.
The politicians who allow this to be so. They should be sacked.
The lawyers who only profit from such cases and will profit further if non=payment is pursued. They should be sacked.
The judges and court staff who benefit from the work. They should be sacked.
Everyone attending meetings who talk about the case. They should be sacked.
The ABC and SBS who can spin it. They should be sacked.
And on it goes.
If any of them had to pay their own costs such bastardry would be very rare.

Boambee John
Boambee John
February 2, 2023 8:54 pm

Ed Casesays:
February 2, 2023 at 7:43 pm
And now a group of Australians want to alter that.

What group would that be, Top?

You, for a start.

Then there are the potential beneficiaries politically – the Liars and the Slime.

Then there are the potential beneficiaries financially – the grifters of the aboriginal “industry”.

Dot
Dot
February 2, 2023 8:55 pm

Good Ted, good.

You’re almost at my “split Victoria in two territories and sack everyone in their courts, justice and police organisations and start again” level of disdain.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 8:58 pm

You see nothing wrong in principle about a race-based body with special access to government?

Well, FECCA [Federation of Ethnic Community Councils of Australia] sounds like a non White – based body with special access to Government while being funded by Government.
They told new PM Tony Abbott not to repeal S 18[c] and he didn’t.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were thousands of these publicly funded, based on non White racial grounds, groups lobbying Parliament 7 days a week.
You’ve never written anything about that, so why would anyone take your point seriously?
Where were you in 1970?

Mind your own business.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 8:59 pm

Scientists in the Netherlands say they are within 10 years of developing an artificial womb that could save the lives of premature babies.

From 2019
no they don’t

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
February 2, 2023 8:59 pm

35 is a great age to be. You’ve been there, done that a few times. Generally have experience, been around the block, had a child or two, and still able to dance the night away and have a killer bod. Yes, a wonderful age.

. Yes Pogria that was it! at that age only one child the second came along the following year and aged significantly – about 20 years in 10 – which is why by 45 wreck of the Hesperus just about covers it – but the stilettos are still a must – the last grasp on fun times – that’s it the final mention from me about stilettos.

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 9:01 pm

Then there are the potential beneficiaries financially – the grifters of the aboriginal “industry”.

The Voice won’t have Program Delivery functions, so there goes 98% of the grifting opportunities.

You sound like a vicious Racist.

Boambee John
Boambee John
February 2, 2023 9:02 pm

Ed Casesays:
February 2, 2023 at 8:02 pm
The wheels aren’t falling off the Albo Train yet.

Turns out the AFP were briefing Peter Dutton on the Higgins Case, which brought down the Morrison Government.

Evidence please. Not just your usual bland, unsupported assertion.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 9:02 pm

And yes many places around the world including Australia offer the option to donate frozen embryos.
Donation.ivf.com.au

Shy Ted
Shy Ted
February 2, 2023 9:03 pm

Nor are there any consequences. Witness Dr Duk’ recent escapades. The “cops” are out there and doing it again.

Top Ender
Top Ender
February 2, 2023 9:03 pm

Anyone who’s advocating for “the Voice”, Ed.

Robert Sewell
February 2, 2023 9:04 pm

Forgot the butter:
A lump of butter – about a small tablespoon full.
Stir.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
February 2, 2023 9:06 pm

Aboriginal activist Nareen Young claims Alice Springs meeting to ‘Mississippi Burning’

An activist has told the ABC that the Alice Springs meeting of residents concerned about an ongoing crime wave in their town showed vitriol and racism akin to the movie Mississippi Burning.
James Morrow
James Morrow
@pwafork
February 2, 2023 – 6:53PM

An Aboriginal activist who has described herself as a good friend of Anthony Albanese has told the ABC that an Alice Springs town hall meeting of residents concerned about an ongoing alcohol-fuelled crime wave was like something out of “Mississippi Burning.”

“If you saw that room in Mississippi Burning, for example, Australians would say how terrible that happens there,” UTS professor Nareen Young said, referencing the 1988 thriller about the disappearance of civil rights workers in the American South in the 1960s.

“The vitriol and racism and lack of regard and respect for those people on their land while those people were living off the bounty of it were appalling, and it seems to me the racism question … is the impact of that land being stolen, that is a racist act in and of itself.

“The racism and infantilisation of First Nations people in that town and the racism that they deal with day in day out is not being talked about and we need to talk about that,” she said.

The comments came barely a day after the ABC found itself under fire for a news radio report on the same town hall meeting that featured a number of voices claiming the event promoted white supremacy without speaking to others or providing any evidence of racist statements or behaviour.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 9:07 pm

On the rare occasion I make scrambled eggs I use the Rick Stein method, super easy for a non cook like me.
Why would you made them a week in advance?

Top Ender
Top Ender
February 2, 2023 9:10 pm

Although it may be flawed Ed, the concept of “one adult = one vote” is something embraced by many countries.

I personally wouldn’t mind some variations on it, but I’m not a member of a group screaming from the rooftops for it to be changed. Churchill said “‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”

I don’t know much of other countries that have moved to a new system where some people get two votes because they’re special, and how well it works there. Can you enlighten us?

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 9:10 pm

Do Australians have an equivalent of ‘allora’?
People here say it all the time, like the French saying ‘et voila’.

P
P
February 2, 2023 9:10 pm

The best scrambled eggs I ever had was when I was 9yrs.
It was Oct/Nov ’49.
I had just commenced at a school in the St George area of Sydney when the Salvation Army set up at two entrances of the school breakfast for the kids if they brought an enamel mug and spoon. Scrambled eggs were cooked on the spot in an old laundry copper.
The miners had been out on strike for approx three months by then and most fathers were out of work. My father was employed during this time but I begged my mum to let me take a mug for my breakfast so I could fit in with the other kids. No plastics those days and I can’t remember any having Nally ware mugs at that time.
Best memory ever for me of scrambled eggs – delicious.

Boambee John
Boambee John
February 2, 2023 9:12 pm

Richard Cranium

What makes you think that I support FECCA and other such bodies?

But the key point, which you deliberately avoid, is that none of those organisations are written into the Constitution. They don’t have, as you so colourfully write, the High Court to “give them a hurry on”.

rosie
rosie
February 2, 2023 9:12 pm

Mississippi burning.
Isn’t that about the disappearance of one black and two white civil rights activists?

Ed Case
Ed Case
February 2, 2023 9:13 pm

Samantha Maiden, today’s Courier Mail; p 53.
As well, Brittany Higgins told the Trial that

she was scared to hand over her phone to the AFP during the investigation because of rules that required the AFP to brief then Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton on “sensitive investigations”.

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