Open Thread – Mon 4 Sept 2023


The Pont Neuf Rainy Afternoon, Camille Pissaro, 1901

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Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 9:46 am

It is beyond a double standard at this point. It is a regime hostile to the general public.

Jorge
Jorge
September 6, 2023 9:48 am

Some discussion the other day about Christians and rebellion against government.
Cassie’s post above about Christians in Syria and their desertion by the US and the help they received from Russia contributes to a picture developing everywhere in English speaking countries.

At a local level it’s Gillard’s RC, Dan Andrews subsidising the Gay Pride Centre in St Kilda and the Pell case.

The money from the Vatican sent to Australia where has that gone and how used ?

Those Maronites and others outside the cathedral in Sydney for the Pell funeral are needed now. Being Christian doesn’t mean submission to evil. That is for others. Of course this is going to escalate but defending the good against the bad is necessary.

We may doubt any of the sides are good but can there be any doubt about which is bad ? It’s us. And China. But I give Putin a pass because he has made many speeches calling out the anti Christian West. Way to go, Vlad.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 6, 2023 9:50 am

H B Bear

Sep 6, 2023 9:27 AM

If QAN knew of any possible investigation. Arguably it was uncertain until the ACCC decided to go ahead and did its own media.

The ACCC are in on the scam.
As far as I can see they are talking about yuuuuge fines, but little talk of customer compo.
They hit Qantas with a $250 meg fine, then try to hit up Treasury for a cut as a budget increase to more similar investigations.
Which, BTW, they didn’t do until Joe Aston belled the cat.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 9:53 am

But I give Putin a pass because he has made many speeches calling out the anti Christian West. Way to go, Vlad.

Must be tough grandstanding whilst using slaves to rebuild the Russian Empire.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 9:53 am

Qaintarse board went along with anything the irish pouve wanted. They were lazy. Now the midget is gone won’t be able to call it quaintarse. Then again for male cabin staff it seems mandatory.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 9:55 am

As far as I can see they are talking about yuuuuge fines, but little talk of customer compo.

Using the banking RC as precedent you expect that will follow. Early days yet.

bons
bons
September 6, 2023 9:55 am

Good heavens, they are determined.
I’m staying at my daughter’s place on the Downs.
The road gate is a fair distance from the house, but the Yessers drove the distance.
They employed the Jehovah’s technique of having little kids with them. Abuse defence I imagine. Creeps.
Of course Abbottesque submission and ‘walk politely away’ politesse ruled the conversation.
The final exchange being “and shut the f*kin gate”.
Their extraordinary ignorance revealed itself when they asked if they could “talk to our workers”.
Daughter claims that they were not locals but were from the Uni in Toowoomba.
They really lit her fuse. “These people hold rural people in contempt and genuinely believe that their superior intellect will make us see the light”.
Second visit not recommended.

Gabor
Gabor
September 6, 2023 9:55 am

Interesting, I never thought about who or what group was the best selling.

link may or may not work.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 9:58 am

“he was just a run of the mill dictator,”

Who Britain, France, and the USA made a deal with and then reneged on it.

And Libya today would be better off with Gaddafi and the harem than what they have now.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 9:59 am

But I give Putin a pass because he has made many speeches calling out the anti Christian West. Way to go, Vlad.

You give an adulterer, a thief and a likely murderer a pass because he said some things.

OK.

Jorge
Jorge
September 6, 2023 10:00 am

Must be tough grandstanding whilst using slaves to rebuild the Russian Empire

To make an omelette, dot.

Of course, none of can know what’s really going on on the other side of the world. We only read about it. And none of us is without guilt.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 10:01 am

Joyce did some good stuff on IR. Quoting aggregate bonuses over a 10+ year career isn’t really fair. What was the QAN market cap when he arrived v when he leaves? I don’t doubt he has done some damage to goodwill recently.

Jorge
Jorge
September 6, 2023 10:02 am

I think he voiced a view I agree with, Roger. What do you think of that view ?

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 10:04 am

“Must be tough grandstanding whilst using slaves to rebuild the Russian Empire.”

What rubbish. This is exactly what I meant when I said earlier how some engage in simplistic adolescent commentary about Putin.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 10:04 am

“You give an adulterer, a thief and a likely murderer a pass because he said some things.”

The current POTUS of the USA.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 6, 2023 10:04 am

Dentist to patient: OK now, open wiiiide.

Dentist to Nurse: Nurse, suction.

Dentist to patient: OK, you can close you wallet now. So, lets have a look at those teeth.

Gabor
Gabor
September 6, 2023 10:07 am

Jorge
Sep 6, 2023 10:00 AM

Of course, none of can know what’s really going on on the other side of the world. We only read about it. And none of us is without guilt.

Jorge, it’s just ideology, works the same here on this blog as out in real life.
You never convince the other party, facts and reasoned argument never work against faith, or dogma.
For fun, sure, offer them, but do not expect to win.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:07 am

I think he voiced a view I agree with, Roger. What do you think of that view ?

If you’re going to side with the good, Jorge, you can’t give evil a pass.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:08 am

You have to call it for what it is, no matter who it is.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 10:10 am

“If you’re going to side with the good, Jorge, you can’t give evil a pass.”

Well they did in World War II, Britain and the USA allied with an evil, the Soviet Union.

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 10:17 am

Joyce being cut loose has some parallels with Holgate. Union payback being one of them.

Unlike Morrison, Luigi has slithered out of the country rather than mouth off in parliament. A handy distraction as superannuation gazillions are once more up for grabs in an SE Asian adventure.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 6, 2023 10:19 am

Most companies have a trading window after announcing full and half year results. I’m sure it is fine. Perhaps a question mark against whether a possible ACCC investigation should have been announced to the market ahead of any trade.

The ASX Dealing Policy is pretty clear on this. If you are in possession of price sensitive information you must not deal.

Other than that, as an employee, you can deal in a trading window – defined as 5 weeks after release of annual, or half yearly accounts, or an AGM, or at any time during the currency of a prospectus – or another period approved by the Board.

So presumably someone on the QANTAS Board thought that impending action by the ACCC was no biggie.

No doubt there will be someone in ASIC, who is not a member of the Chairman’s Lounge, who might ask the question.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 6, 2023 10:21 am

A cheery dentist tune for your pre visit perusal

https://youtu.be/YoWom0CCRKM?si=gTiE8wixjk6vg6V3

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:22 am

Well they did in World War II, Britain and the USA allied with an evil…

Who said Britain and the USA were ‘good’?

They were ‘good’ only relative to the evil they were fighting. I.e., their cause was just.

That didn’t make them morally good in the sense of being unalloyed with evil themselves.

To paraphrase Solzhenitsyn, the dividing line between good and evil doesn’t run between peoples or countries, it’s found in each & every human heart or soul.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 6, 2023 10:22 am

I thought Roger was talking about the old thief too. The US has thrown away moral authority it may have once had after what’s gone down since 2016.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 10:26 am

GWGB.

Bank to Stop Giving Loans to Fossil Fuel Cars (5 Sep)

From 2025, customers of Bank Australia will no longer get funding to buy new cars that run on fossil fuels.

”By ceasing car loans for new fossil fuel vehicles, we are sending a signal to the Australian market about the rapid acceleration in the transition from internal combustion to electric vehicles we expect to see in the next few years” said Sasha Courville, chief impact officer at the bank.

Sounds like an excellent reason to transition from their bank to another bank by 2025. I don’t think they’re getting quite the level of virtue signalling out of this than they believe though – the article is on a US blog courtesy of a independent journo from Sweden. Stop the presses!

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 10:26 am

“Who said Britain and the USA were ‘good’?”

I do.

And if I was living in either the USA or Britain between 1939 and 1945 I wasn’t about to be transported to either a death camp or a gulag.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 6, 2023 10:27 am

I thought the Syrian/Egyptian/Lybian overthrows/ attempts were the bottom of the barrel for US policy.
All caused and are still causing more misery than appeared to be in those areas pre-freedumb revolutions.

Egypt delivered to the Muslim Brotherhood as a gift was particularly mongoloid.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:29 am

I do.

And if I was living in either the USA or Britain between 1939 and 1945 I wasn’t about to be transported to either a death camp or a gulag.

Please read what I wrote again, Cassie.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:30 am

And none of us is without guilt.

Since when did I vote for neocons, Nuland, Biden, Hillary, Putin, Zelensky, Bandera…

I didn’t even get to vote for the anti-war candidates like Ron Paul or Trump, let alone Bernie or Marianne Williamson.

???

That’s a huge call Jorge; you’re saying there is not only no right take in all of this but even disinterested people are wrong. How can they be wrong if no matter of reasoning or information makes their answer any better?

What guilt should I have?

“Australia should keep out of this conflict and not even supply weapons even though I think Putin is in the wrong”

It doesn’t mean I lose a right to be wary of a hare-brained scheme to rebuild the Russian Empire (more so when the peripheral States all voted overwhelmingly to leave the USSR and Russian dominance for good).

…and no being hysterical about Putin/Hitler is silly. He’s not. He needs an incentive to agree to a ceasefire and peace treaty, as does Zelensky.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:34 am

Egypt delivered to the Muslim Brotherhood as a gift was particularly mongoloid.

I’m not saying they’re not clever enough to play a long game, but the NAC (“New Cairo”) had a Cathedral/Basilica built as a sign of solidarity with Christians after a Muslim terrorist attack (as well as two Mosques). Pompeo was there in 2019 when it was opened by al Sisi and the Pope of Alexandria. Sisi is still the President.

Then again, Mubarak may have done the same…

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 10:35 am

So presumably someone on the QANTAS Board thought that impending action by the ACCC was no biggie.

As I indicated, until the ACCC decided to proceed it was too uncertain. At any given time a company, particularly one the size and profile of QAN, may be facing a number of such issues. ASX announcements often provoke differences of opinion.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:39 am

I thought Roger was talking about the old thief too.

Nefarious activity in high places is nothing new but there’s certainly plenty of it to go around at the moment.

In light of that, in regard to placing one’s hope in earthly leaders, the psalmist warns, “Put not your trust in princes…”

And he (King David) ought to have known!

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:42 am

Electricity, electric cars and electric car charging will all get much more expensive soon.

Scotty Kilmer showed an example recently of a 4WD owner who compared a similar model, diesel ICE to EV and the ICE was cheaper to fill up.

Batteries need to be the right temp. If you warm your battery up for 20 minutes and recharge for 10 and are charged for TIME and not Ah/kWh, then what are you really paying for?

Bank Australia is an “Industry” (Union) Super Fund “bank” (started off as the CSIRO Credit Union and owns Member’s Equity, which has ties to UniSuper etc.) so they’re just going to be woke and shill for highly paid, high wage bill, low productivity renewables gravy trains.

I really do like the PoleStar 2. It simply isn’t a 63k – 91k car, it doesn’t have the range, reliability or quick refuelling times of a conventional ICE car and what’s the cost to repair?

Electric cars have so many problems that mass adoption will only occur if it is forced on us. They might improve. Probably not, in a short time.

We already used electric cars pre WWI and they were obsolete by the time the conflict was joined.

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 10:46 am

Oh, look who’s yapping today.

Please, please let it be well reported! I want more tantrums and threats – you can never have enough. And please…more accusations of systemic racism. That’s a winner.

lotocoti
lotocoti
September 6, 2023 10:47 am

Down the road, there’s a bran nue Gunyah of Wellness.
It’s been empty for a couple of months now.
I’m beginning to suspect someone from the NCACCH
at the other end of the block has been engaged
in a spot of bone pointing.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:47 am

Good, very nice, but too expensive and not good enough.

https://www.polestar.com/au/polestar-2/specifications/

Megan
Megan
September 6, 2023 10:48 am

. At the end they wanted a group photo as a keepsake.

Such a Japanese thing. It’s such a lovely, friendly gesture to strangers. My youngest worked in Nagasaki and Tokyo for 3 years and said he must have posed for thousands of group photos in that time.

I told him that somewhere in Japan, stuck in the photo album of two 50+ Japanese women would be a photo of 13 month old him in a stroller with the Acropolis in the background, surrounded by two giggly Japanese teenagers.

I understand why though, he was exceedingly cute back then.

The bathroom references from rosie and calli made me laugh! Once experienced, a Japanese bathroom is never forgotten.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 10:49 am

“Please read what I wrote again, Cassie.”

I did. Now please read what I wrote again, Roger.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 10:49 am

Electric cars are like the Covid vaccine and grid level electricity storage. The problem has been known for decades. We are no closer to solving it than 20 or 30 years ago. People will look back at current electric cars like we do with the 3 wheel Benz.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 10:53 am

Oh, look who’s yapping today.

No wonder Albanese’s out of the country.

(But seriously…these trips were booked long ago, which is why he had to call the referendum when he did. But I reckon he’s breathing a sigh of relief anyway: “Please, I’m not here to talk about domestic issues but exciting prospects for your super in SE Asia…”

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 10:53 am

ME Bank was brought by Bank of Queensland.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:55 am

If that’s the case Bear then PoleStar should be the rebranded Volvo and then they all come with TDI/hybrid engines. Their performance and mileage would be terrific, just be more reliable than Audis and VWs…

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 10:58 am

Ah

Bank MECU was not ME Bank.

My bad.

JMH
JMH
September 6, 2023 10:58 am

Request, please. Could someone with a subscription to the OZ bring over the article “The top 10 companies backing the Yes campaign” in the Business section. I would like to see exactly which wokesters want to lose business.

Gabor
Gabor
September 6, 2023 10:59 am

H B Bear
Sep 6, 2023 10:49 AM

Electric cars are like the Covid vaccine and grid level electricity storage. The problem has been known for decades. We are no closer to solving it than 20 or 30 years ago. People will look back at current electric cars like we do with the 3 wheel Benz.

We had electric cars in the early days of motor vehicles, actually some milk delivery vans into the late 50s if I recall.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 10:59 am

When my kids were 2 and 5 Japanese tourists were lining up to have photos taken with platinum blond kids.

Peter Greagg
Peter Greagg
September 6, 2023 11:00 am

Cambell Newman in the Oz, making sense on the InVoice.

Voice is little more than an elite grab for money and power
MAURICE NEWMAN

Whichever way the voice referendum goes, division and acrimony will surely follow. Like so many government policy initiatives these days, this one is about “the vibe”, consequences be damned. Should the voice be rejected, the people’s verdict is unlikely to be respected. Public protests and unrelenting demands for a treaty, self-determination and reparations will follow. At home and abroad, Australians will be portrayed as racists.

If the proposal is carried, a small racial minority will have constitutional privileges denied the majority of Australians. It will permanently define our system of government as one country, two systems. It will establish a platform for the politics of envy. The very expectation of race-based benefits is no doubt reflected in the latest census, which recorded a 25 per cent jump in those identifying as Indigenous.

The Uluru Statement from the Heart may be well-intended, but its authors are open to the charge that it’s really about more power and money for elites. After all, Indigenous people are anything but voiceless now. Indeed, in the past 15 years, thousands of Indigenous voices have been heard and tens of billions of taxpayer dollars, together with royalties and service payments, invested where the collective voices recommended. It is not clear how an additional voice will improve Indigenous lives.

We are told the voice is about respect. But surely Indigenous people are paid respect daily? Senior Indigenous voices have permanent positions on peak Indigenous bodies, agencies and summits. Land rights have been extended to 55 per cent of the continent. Every day, non-Indigenous Australians demonstrate respect in rituals, acknowledging Indigenous elders past and present, and the traditional custodians of the land on which they stand. Letterheads are adorned with respectful acknowledgments and places are being given Indigenous names. Indigenous flags have become more ubiquitous than the national flag. Most importantly, there are 25 Indigenous members in federal, state and territory parliaments, which, based on population, is an overweight representation. This is surely the ultimate sign of respect.

Former PM Kevin Rudd’s apology in federal parliament for the “Stolen Generation” was hailed at the time as of immense significance in Australia’s journey towards reconciliation and healing. Fifteen years on, it has done little to generate reciprocal respect and goodwill from Indigenous leaders.

Dispassionate analysis of Indigenous conditions points to the greatest concentration of misery being where Indigenous voices are loudest. While reliable statistics are limited, it seems on important metrics such as life expectancy Indigenous people in remote communities die seven to eight years earlier than their peers in the cities.

These communities are also where child neglect and sexual abuse are reaching epidemic proportions. The rate at which Indigenous children were removed from their families increased by 80 per cent between 2008 and 2017, the years following Rudd’s apology. Of the $4.1bn spent on community support and welfare services, the largest proportion (29 per cent) is spent on child protection and out-of-home care (compared with 6.5 per cent for non-Indigenous people). In years to come will they be characterised as another “stolen generation”?

It’s no good blaming British colonialism or endemic racism for these conditions. After decades of widespread community goodwill and tangible support from governments, it’s time for the Indigenous industry to recognise it too is not blameless. It could have addressed these issues through the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission back in 1990. ATSIC had a legislative mandate that gave it an increasingly independent voice on policy to government. But ATSIC was beset by incompetence, mismanagement and, allegedly, serious criminal behaviour by its leadership. It was disbanded in 2005. Had it been enshrined in the Constitution, it would still be there.

Handouts and low expectations remain the hallmark of the Indigenous industry. It leaves Indigenous people stranded in remote communities, victims of a system that continues to shore up those great impediments to economic development – legally protected Aboriginal land councils.

These are where the greatest misery exists. Jobs and property rights are non-existent. There can be one store for a thousand people. Tradespeople are flown in and out to fix what vocationally trained locals could do. But blind eyes are turned to education and chronic school truancy, and local languages are preferred to English. Here crime flourishes, and it’s where extortionate demands deter mining and other developments that could generate employment and individual mobility.

The voice won’t fix that. Indeed voice advocates want guarantees of self-determination and independence from government. If achieved, unaccountable elites will wield even more control over the powerless people held captive by custom and victimhood in remote communities.

This very realisation should cause voters in the referendum to vote with their heads, not their hearts. It is a lose-lose proposition, especially for Indigenous people.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 11:01 am

Dot – a couple of articles on EVs today.

Trump Courts United Auto Workers: Biden’s Electric Car Agenda Will Kill Michigan Auto Industry, Boost China (5 Sep)

“The Great State of Michigan will not have an auto industry anymore if Crooked Joe Biden’s crazed concept of ‘all Electric Cars’ goes into effect,” Trump said in a Monday Labor Day post on Truth Social, warning that such a move would hurt Americans and boost China.

BMW Warns Gasoline Car Ban Poses “Imminent Risk” To European Automakers (5 Sep)

The EU’s pledge to ban the sale of new gasoline and diesel cars and vans from 2035 poses an “imminent risk” to Europe’s car manufacturers, which are unlikely to win a looming EV price war with their Chinese competitors, BMW chairman Oliver Zipse has told the Financial Times.

“I want to send a message: I see that as an imminent risk,” Zipse said.

The landmark deal was made possible after Germany – the biggest economy, the biggest car market, and the biggest car manufacturer – sought and won an exemption for e-fuels. Germany wanted sales of new cars with internal combustion engines if they run on e-fuels to continue beyond 2035, and it got that exemption.

That latter was Porsche/VW who pushed for the use of green methanol. So it’s fun that both they and now BMW are fessing that German industry will die horribly if forced to go electric. And even more fun that BMW accidentally supported Donald Trump in what he said to the UAW…

Jorge
Jorge
September 6, 2023 11:03 am

Aren’t we told somewhere God will judge the nations ?

As part of the West we will be brought up from the cells and arrayed.

In that sense, dot, we are guilty. Abortion, trans, gays. I disagree with it all but so what ? Signing petitions, arguing with family and friends, but still paying taxes so I provide support. Which of us does enough ?

That’s why I like what those young Maronite men did outside the Pell funeral. There’s got to be a lot more of it and it should come from the churches.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 11:03 am

JMH

I’ll help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum

A whole list of people, entities and businesses to sneer at and avoid with your hard-earned, after-tax income.

ANZ[68]
BHP[68]
Coles[68]
Commonwealth Bank[68]
National Australia Bank[68]
Rio Tinto[68]
Wesfarmers[68]
Woolworths[68]
Atlassian[69][70]
Qantas[71][72]
Global Creatures[68] “GLOBAL CREATURES SAYS YES” (Press release). 16 August 2023. Archived from the original on 1 September 2023. Retrieved 1 September 2023.
Telstra [73]
Transurban [73]

The Office for Justice, Ecology and Peace (an agency of the Australian Catholic Bishops’ Conference)[75]

Ugh…my church needs both a King Charles and an Oliver Cromwell.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 11:05 am

H B Bear
Sep 6, 2023 10:49 AM
Electric cars are like the Covid vaccine and grid level electricity storage. The problem has been known for decades. We are no closer to solving it than 20 or 30 years ago. People will look back at current electric cars like we do with the 3 wheel Benz.

More likely the Messerschmidt, the Goggomobile or the Reliant Robin.

Peter Greagg
Peter Greagg
September 6, 2023 11:06 am

JMH
Sep 6, 2023 10:58 AM
Request, please. Could someone with a subscription to the OZ bring over the article “The top 10 companies backing the Yes campaign” in the Business section. I would like to see exactly which wokesters want to lose business.

It’s a bit of a Word-Wall, but some may be interested in the detail.

The nation’s largest listed companies have overwhelmingly thrown their weight, and millions of dollars in support, behind the Yes campaign supporting an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament, with no publicly-listed companies appearing to be on the record in opposition to the proposed constitutional changes.

To date, 13 of the top 20 ASX-listed companies have come out in support of the Voice, with BHP, Rio Tinto and Wesfarmers all kicking in $2m each to back the Yes campaign.

Visy Industries executive chairman Anthony Pratt also donated $1m to the yes campaign while Qantas is providing free travel to members of the Yes23 campaign group, and tech firm Atlassian has pledged to match donations by its employees.

And in April a group of philanthropic entities, individuals and family offices announced they had poured $17m into the Yes campaign, led by a $5m contribution from the Paul Ramsay Foundation, which pledged the money to the non-profit Australians for Indigenous Constitutional Recognition.

That body – the registered charity collecting funds to be funnelled into the Yes campaign – has a high-powered board including globally influential lobbyist Mark Textor, Wesfarmers chairman Michael Chaney and prominent indigenous campaigner Noel Pearson.

It’s not all one-way traffic however with executives from companies including Gina Rinehart’s Hancock Agriculture expressing the view that companies should steer clear of getting involved in the debate.
Adam Giles, the Northern Territory’s former chief minister and now chief executive of the mining magnate’s agriculture assets, told The Australian last month the company preferred to “stay in our lane’’.

“We grow cattle. We grow beef. We talk to the consumer. None of our business happens in the political world, and I don’t think we should,’’ he said.

Mr Giles also suggested that spending shareholder money advocating on political matters could pose a risk to companies.

“I see a little bit of commentary about whether shareholders might have some sort of class action against companies, and I think they have every right to,” he said.

“It’d be interesting to see that tested. But if you’re spending two or three million dollars of shareholders’ money and profits on a political campaign which is only one side of a story, I don’t think that’s the best use of shareholders’ funds.”

Sam Kennard, chief executive at Kennards Self Storage – who is also a director of the conservative think tank the Centre for Independent Studies – has also been a vocal critic of the Voice.

Vitamin mogul Marcus Blackmore came out early in opposition to the Voice, backing Northern Territory senator Jacinta Price and saying he had failed to be convinced by arguments put forward by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and others.

The listed company Blackmores pointed out at the time that Mr Blackmore had not worked at or been a director at the company for more than two years, and the company’s position which it currently holds is that the referendum vote is a matter for individual employees to make up their minds on.

Among the large companies that have not expressed a view ­either way, CSL and Santos are also encouraging their employees to vote as they see fit.

The Business Council of Australia, whose members include the top listed firms as well as large private and international companies such as Boeing, Cisco and the big four accounting firms, has come out in support of the Voice, as has the Minerals Council of Australia.

TOP ASX YES SUPPORTERS
Qantas

The national carrier on August 14 confirmed their support for the Yes campaign ahead of the upcoming referendum and unveiled special livery on three Qantas Group aircraft.

The livery features the Yes23 campaign logo on a Qantas Boeing 737, a QantasLink Dash 8 Turboprop and a Jetstar Airbus A320.

Chief executive Alan Joyce said in the statement support for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament continued Qantas’ long commitment to reconciliation and, more broadly, the notion of a ‘fair go’.

“We’re supporting the Yes23 campaign because we believe a formal voice to the government will help close the gap for First Nations people in important areas like health, education and employment,” he said.

“Like our Flying Art livery aircraft showcasing First Nations culture to a global audience, these aircraft will send a message of support for a Yes vote as they travel the country”.
BHP

Mining giant BHP revealed their support for the Yes campaign after donating $2m to the referendum in June.

The donation came after releasing the latest update to its reconciliation action plan, which reiterates BHP’s ongoing support for a yes vote at the referendum and promises to “connect our workforce to information about a Voice and the matters it is seeking to address.”

BHP President Minerals Australia Geraldine Slattery said the decision to back the Yes campaign with cash was aligned with their support for broader efforts towards reconciliation between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians.

“BHP’s relationships with Indigenous Australians are fundamentally important to our company,” she said.

“We operate on traditional lands and we engage and partner widely with Indigenous communities and traditional owners. We are the largest resources sector employer of Indigenous Australians and we are a rapidly growing partner to Indigenous-owned businesses,” she said.

Rio Tinto

Along with BHP, Rio Tinto also donated $2m in support of the Yes as the company also stated they were moving to a model of co-management to ensure Indigenous voices are heard in their decision making.

In a statement published on their website, the company noted the relationships with the Indigenous peoples, including the agreements with traditional owners of the lands on which they operate, are a priority.

“We support the principle of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples having a greater say in matters that affect them, and we advocate for the rights and heritage of Indigenous peoples on whose land we live and work

In this spirit, we welcome the additional lens that a Voice would bring to Government decision makers as they consider all important matters before them,” the statement said.
Woodside Energy

This oil and gas major was one of only three Australian resource companies to commit to support the ‘VoteYes’ campaign at the time of their announcement in April.

Woodside chief executive and managing director Meg O’Neill said in the April press conference that the company is on a journey in their relations with First Nations peoples and that “we haven’t always got it right.”

“Woodside supports the Yes Campaign,” she said.

“In my view, this would be an important step forward in reconciliation, an opportunity to bring Australians together”.

NAB

One of Australia’s leading banks NAB showed their support for the referendum early in July and called on businesses to back the Voice.

The NAB Foundation also donated $200,000 to the campaign, stating it “is leading the call to the Australian public to come together and vote in favour of the change to the constitution.”

In a statement by NAB, chief executive Ross McEwan said that business has a role to play in supporting the financial, career and business aspirations of First Nations people.

“It is time to recognise the rightful place of Indigenous Australians as the First People of this country, and enable and empower them to participate in shared decision making that impact their communities through the Voice,” he said.

ANZ

ANZ shared their support of the Voice in 2022 after backing The Uluru Statement which invited the nation to walk with the Indigenous people in a movement for a better future.

In a statement by group general counsel Ken Adams, the company asserted that “one should not lose sight of the achievement that after extensive consultation, widespread but not perfect consensus … and years of planning, we are being asked to walk with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community for a better Australia.”

“A referendum presents a rare opportunity for Australians to actively participate in fair, practical and unifying reform, and to shape the laws of the country”.
Commonwealth Bank

Another of the big banking names, Commonwealth Bank announced their support for the Voice in October 2022 after announcing their new Reconciliation Action Plan.

Chief executive Matt Comyn said in a statement that the company’s purpose is to build a bright future for all and seek to deliver on this commitment for Indigenous people every day.

“As the nation begins an important public discussion about constitutional recognition and an Indigenous Voice to Parliament, Commonwealth Bank is supportive of the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

Taking the advice of our Indigenous Advisory Council, we are supporting conversations across the bank to understand what is proposed and how it might contribute to better outcomes for First Nations peoples,” Mr Comyn said.

Westpac

Following the lead of the other major Australian Banks, Westpac has stated they will “mark [their] ongoing commitment to reconciliation with the Indigenous community by supporting this year’s Voice to Parliament referendum.”

Chief executive Peter King made the announcement at an event to celebrate the bank’s partnership with the Jawun Indigenous engagement program in March this year.

“It’s an important year for reconciliation and I’m proud to let you know that Westpac will be supporting the Voice,” King said at the event.

“We’ll be helping our employees to understand what the Voice is, and what it’s not.”

Woolworths

As one of Australia’s largest retailers, the Woolworths Group reaffirmed their support for the Yes vote.

The company has long stated their commitment to “actively contributing to Australia’s reconciliation journey through listening and learning, empowering more diverse voices and working together for a better tomorrow.”

“Woolworths Group reaffirms our support for the Uluru Statement from the Heart, and its calls for a First Nations Voice to Parliament enshrined in the Constitution,” the company said.

“Representing the communities we serve, we see opportunities driving tangible and meaningful changes.

“Of these opportunities is our commitment to Reconciliation”.
Coles

Supermarket giant Coles have shown their support for the Voice to parliament and in August the company placed an Acknowledgement of Country on their receipts, joining the public discussion around the referendum.

The addition reflects the push by the Labor Party for the Yes vote.

A Coles spokesman said in a statement the supermarket was proud to include the Acknowledgement of Country as one of Australia’s largest employers of Indigenous Peoples.

“We work hard to create opportunities for Indigenous peoples, organisations, communities and customers to engage with our business and continue to increase understanding, value and recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures, histories, knowledge and rights,” a spokesman told Sky News.

Wesfarmers

Retail and industrial giant Wesfarmers donated $2m to the Yes campaign in June and was one of the only top listed WA companies to donate to the campaign at the time.

“We employ 100,000 people of whom 4000 approximately are Indigenous people,” he said.

“We have suppliers who are Indigenous suppliers. Many of our customers are Indigenous people, whether it’s in Bunnings or Kmart and Target and so on”.

“If you think of all of those things, not supporting this referendum would be betrayal of all of those people I’ve mentioned … and I think betrayal of the Australian people because we think this is a very important move, a uniting move in Australia, and it should be supported.”

Telstra

Technology giant Telstra have pledged their support for the Voice to parliament largely due to its strong ties to Indigenous communities and employees.

In their most recent reconciliation plan, Telstra chief executive Vicki Brady said it is vital to deliver the right outcomes that First Nations customers want and need, that the company lends its voice to important reconciliation initiatives.

“I am committed to supporting the Uluru Statement from the Heart, walking alongside First Nations communities to secure a better future for us all,” she said.

This was furthered by subsidiary TelstraSuper in a statement saying “the Voice will give independent advice to the parliament and government, building relationships that are collaborative, inclusive, and culturally appropriate.”

Xero

Software giant Xero announced its commitment and support of the Indigenous Voice to Parliament in Australia in July.

In a statement from the business, they said supporting the referendum drives better diversity and inclusion outcomes and can help amplify their positive impact on the world.

“Listening and understanding is the first step to enabling meaningful change and positive community outcomes,” the statement said.

“Xero supports the establishment of a Voice to Parliament in Australia to enable First Nations peoples to have a say in policies and decisions that affect them and their communities, and to help close the gap”.

Transurban Group

Major road operator company Transurban announced their support of the ‘Yes Vote’ earlier this year.

In a statement from their reconciliation plan, the company said they will work to raise internal awareness and provide ongoing updates and information on the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

“As an Australian-born ASX top 20 company that owns and operates toll roads and infrastructure on lands that are traditionally owned by Aboriginal people, we are committed to progressing reconciliation across our business and sector,” the company stated.

“We know that education will be critical to gaining public support for a successful referendum to take place, enshrining a First Nations Voice in the Australian Constitution”.

Lendlease

Lendlease’s global chief executive Tony Lombardo said the building giant was encouraging staff to think about the constitutional changes required for an Indigenous voice, and was “right behind” the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

In their reconciliation plan, the company stated they have a long and proud history of supporting First Nations’ recognition and reconciliation.

“For the past eight years, Lendlease has publicly supported constitutional reform and in 2019 was one of 14 companies who came together to support the Uluru Statement from the Heart,” the statement said.

“We hope that most Australians will support this recognition and the constitutionally enshrined Voice – this is essential for genuine reconciliation”.

STAYING NEUTRAL (Top 20 companies)
1. Aristocrat Leisure

2. CSL

3. Fortescue Metals

4. Goodman Group

5. Macquarie Group

6. Santos

7. WiseTech Global

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 11:07 am

Gabor

We had electric cars in the early days of motor vehicles, actually some milk delivery vans into the late 50s if I recall.

Electric milk delivery vehicles in London in the mid-1980s.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
September 6, 2023 11:09 am

Here’s the names only from The Australian “top 10”

Qantas
BHP
Rio Tinto
Woodside Energy
NAB
ANZ
Commonwealth Bank
Westpac
Woolworths
Coles
Wesfarmers
Telstra
Xero
Transurban Group
Lendlease

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 11:11 am

The Office for Justice, Ecology and Peace (an agency of the Australian Catholic Bishops’ Conference)

Now there’s a Fifth Column entity if ever there was one.

Do the bishops actively support this or do they think they can control it by keeping it under their noses?

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 11:15 am

That’s why I like what those young Maronite men did outside the Pell funeral. There’s got to be a lot more of it and it should come from the churches.”

I was there, I saw it. And not just at Pell’s funeral, recall those Maronite men who rushed to the church in Sydney’s West in March.

It’s also notable that two months ago, in a suburb in Los Angeles, Armenian Christian parents were protesting the LGBTQI+ gunk in a school. They were targeted by Antifa and other scum of the left. The Armenians fought back.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 11:16 am

Yes23 campaign group, and tech firm Atlassian has pledged to match donations by its employees.

Hmmm. Shorter Cannon-Brookes “No pressure staff, just let us know how much you gave so we can match it. Honest, there will be no repercussion s against those who give under $1000.00. Really! Cross my heart.”

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 11:17 am

In that sense, dot, we are guilty. Abortion, trans, gays. I disagree with it all but so what ?

It means you have a clear conscience.

I’m going to be blunt. Your ideas are probably stupid but at best begging for self-harm.

If you think we should bring back the death penalty, then (“logically”) you’d gladly take a lethal injection for the collective guilt you share with the worst murderers we have currently locked up.

Hopefully, you understand now collective guilt is evil. Noah didn’t get wiped out for a reason.

I don’t feel a lick of guilt for the Myall Creek massacre, the nefarious actions to steal East Timorese continental shelf oil, the witch hunt against Pell, the movement to (ironically, after the last matter) legalise and hide child sex change surgery from parents & normalising child sex abuse. I don’t feel guilty about Ivan Milat or Daniel Morcombe’s killer. I don’t feel guilty that the West allied with Stalin after Stalin and Hitler BOTH invaded Poland, starting WWII because it truly was an existential war of survival. Sure the West might have made a better call sacrificing the USSR to bleed the Axis…but that would have been a massive and irresponsible gamble.

What if it didn’t work out though? We would have lost the whole war and Japan and Germany would be the dominant world powers to this day. Capturing that industrial base would have put the Axis on par or better than the US with an incredible amount of slaves, land, resources and millions freed up to fight the US and Commonwealth.

Likewise, I don’t feel guilty about the mess left behind in Iraq, Libya or the Ukraine.

Even if I partially agreed with some of the reasons, I don’t agree to fuel a war, ally with scum (there’s nothing stopping you from changing alliances if you find out your allies are compromised) or not listening to military advisers let alone disagree with most deployments can hardly damn me for supporting those wars.

There’s no real basis for collective guilt other than to scare people. It’s trash.

Nations will be judged but so will Popes, Kings, Lords, Knights, freemen, peasants and bondsmen & prisoners.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 11:17 am

There is a litany of Western leaders in the recent past that have born false witness, engaged in extrajudicial killings, falsely imprisoned, and so on., and more aggressively and with less excuse than Putin in the circumstances.

Evil is not graded on a curve, dover.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 11:19 am

Okay Dover, the alleged plans to annex Belarus after Ukraine are just made up?

Salvatore, Iron Publican
September 6, 2023 11:19 am

Mosman Council (Sydney) homepage:

Mosman Council acknowledges the Borogegal and Cammeraigal people as the traditional custodians of this land.
Council accepts the invitation of the Uluru Statement from the Heart and the call for a First Nations Voice to Parliament protected by the Constitution.

2GB (apparently a local radio station) 12 hrs ago:

Mosman Council votes against Aboriginal land claim

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 11:21 am

Aren’t we told somewhere God will judge the nations ?

As part of the West we will be brought up from the cells and arrayed.

We will be judged as individuals, not as members of ethnic groups or political states or broad cultural alliances, viz. “the West”.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 11:23 am

Albo’s jet setting will come back and haunt him at the next election. If he makes it that far (I suspect in is 50:50 at best).

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 11:32 am

CSL and Santos are also encouraging their employees to vote as they see fit.

This is where we are in 2023. That companies feel the need to even state this fundamental right of individuals.

Another excellent reason to vote “No” and put these corrosive corporate posturers back in their box.

I’m glad the Ainsworths have decided to remain neutral. Now watch as their corporation comes under scrutiny. Forget the millions poured into philanthropic causes.

Johnny Rotten
September 6, 2023 11:33 am

Now the midget is gone won’t be able to call it quaintarse.

I disagree. If you have ever watched those old QANTAS advertisements where Alf Garnet (Warren Mitchell) did them, his cockney accent sounded just like he had said ‘quaintarse’ for qantas. LOL.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 11:35 am

It doesn’t mean I lose a right to be wary of a hare-brained scheme to rebuild the Russian Empire

Neo-cons literally invented this talking point.

LOL. Putin wants to be Peter the Great v2.0. He said it himself. And Shoigu said he wants to re-establish the Soviet Empire.

I was amused by this one today:

Putin at it again: West put ethnic Jew in charge of covering up glorification of Nazism (Arutz Sheva, 5 Sep)

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday claimed that Western powers had installed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who is Jewish, as President of Ukraine in an attempt “to cover up the glorification of Nazism”.

And here I thought Zelensky’s main claim to fame was being able to play the piano with his manhood. If Putin wants to denazify some place I suggest he starts with his own country. I’m not saying Ukraine is a squeaky clean nation, they ain’t.

I like Putin’s approach to the Orthodox Church as a stabilizing influence on Russia. But if you don’t think he’s an imperialistic old man in a hurry you are naive.

P
P
September 6, 2023 11:42 am
JMH
JMH
September 6, 2023 11:44 am

Many thanks Dot, Peter Greagg and Salvatore. I’m pleased to say I have a very small exposure with regard to the Yes companies. Unfortunately, due to my location, a couple are unavoidable. Woolworths and Telsta. Big 4 Banks – none of them have my money. Will print the list and pass it around.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 11:45 am

“Putin wants to be Peter the Great v2.0. He said it himself.”

Where has he said that? He’s on record as saying he admires Peter the Great. Big difference.

MatrixTransform
September 6, 2023 11:45 am

11 kW AC charging time (3-phase 16A AC) – 0-100% in 7 hrs

all good getting 3 phase from the street, prolly only cost $10-20k

DC charging time – 10-80% in 34 min

where does one find the 150kW charger … the Woolworths carpark ??

especially loving the way they call the different rates different names:
levels 1,2 3
trickle, fast and turbo
DC charging or AC charging

what a wank.

using great force to make those ions dance presents all manner of issues.
and how many time can you stress a battery bank like that?
and what about the compounding risks of aging EVs that have already been pumped full of juice at high rates?

dendrites’R’us

IMO, only a matter of time before they start burning randomly

Gabor
Gabor
September 6, 2023 11:51 am

Cassie of Sydney
Sep 6, 2023 11:45 AM

“Putin wants to be Peter the Great v2.0. He said it himself.”

Where has he said that? He’s on record as saying he admires Peter the Great. Big difference.

Dover, please, bring back That button!!
Badly needed, both would be better but if it saves sensitive souls from fainting then just the uptick, please?

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 11:57 am

Where has he said that? He’s on record as saying he admires Peter the Great.

Probably quoted in that venerable publication of record- The Express.

Bruce’s go-to for all things Russian.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 11:57 am

It took like five seconds on a search engine.

Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands (Jun 2022)

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 6, 2023 12:00 pm

Dot.
Just to be clear, all the rulers of those countries were turds.
But given the failure of Afghanistan and Iraq as ” people will choose democracy/ tolerance/ freedom if we get rid of oppressive regimes” just blindly supporting overthrows was seriously bad.
I’d go so far as to state the only winner has been Iran.

In an area full of governments which have spent decades deforming their own societies, expecting good outcomes from violent overthrow rather than ( horrible as it is) long grinding incremental change is a fools game.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 12:01 pm

Makka – I link the Express because they are at least a bit righty, and that’s where I tend to see articles that I remember. The last link was to the Grauniad, just to be even handed about things. I expect Cats have sufficient brain cells to do their own research and investigation, but lately I am not encouraged.

The guy is a spook not a statesman. He’s lived his whole life in the shadows, and unfortunately he made the mistake of believing his advisors. Yes men are not to be trusted.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 12:02 pm

“Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands (Jun 2022)”

LOL…poor old Brucie. Links, links, links, and to The Malchurian Guardian no less.

I repeat, Putin has never said that ‘he wants to be Peter the Great v2.0’.

Brucie, the expert on everything and nothing, our very own Samwell Tarly, who at least read books, Brucie reads links.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 12:04 pm

Where has he said that? He’s on record as saying he admires Peter the Great. Big difference.

In context, he said he admires Peter because he “reclaimed” putative Russian territory rather than seized it, which neighbouring countries once in imperial Russia’s orbit took as a threat.

Anyone familiar with Peter’s biography will find not a few ironies in the comparison.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 12:04 pm

“He’s lived his whole life in the shadows”

Brucie describing himself.

I should pity Brucie, he spends his life in a basement scrolling and posting links.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 6, 2023 12:09 pm

Council accepts the invitation of the Uluru Statement from the Heart and the call for a First Nations Voice to Parliament protected by the Constitution.

Like Albanese, it’s as if these people read the Uluru Statement one pager, ignored the 90% requesting constitutional sovereignty and self-government, the 8% requesting treaty and reparations – and focussed solely on the single brief sentence asking for a First Nations Voice.

Reciprocal humbuggery.

In a properly ordered Australia, Dutton would have long since stood up in Parliament and asked:

Prime Minister, you have clearly stated:

“On behalf of the Australian Labor Party, I commit to the Uluru Statement from the Heart in full.”

Will you now explain to the Nation exactly how the ALP you lead intends to deliver self determination to First Nations people and what Makarrata and Treaty involves.

But not properly ordered.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 6, 2023 12:10 pm

Yes a great reason not to retire

lotocoti
lotocoti
September 6, 2023 12:12 pm

Perhaps those ASX companies have remembered their Yes Minister.
In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge.
Win or lose, backing Yes protects them from the Black Spot.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 12:22 pm

Reciprocal humbuggery.

I don’t know that there’d be much reciprocity about it.

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 12:23 pm

The last link was to the Grauniad, just to be even handed about things.

Oh, well there you have it. Quite even handed. A totally unbiased leftist/globalist/woke bull horn. Any more respectable sources , Bruce?

Seriously, if the Guardian was true to it’s dominant leftist readership, it would be advocating for a cease fire to this slaughter and starting peace negotiations. Instead, like ALL MSM news outlets it is towing the woke/US agenda of demonizing the evil devil satanic Vlad and glorifying the saintliness of Zelenskiy and the knights in shining armour of NATO/ Biden and the Euro parasites.

Lysander
Lysander
September 6, 2023 12:27 pm

Essential Poll out today:

The poll records the no lead on the Indigenous Voice out from 47-43 to 48-42, which is at least a slower rate of decline for yes than other polls of late. Yes includes 30% for hard yes and 12% for soft, with no respectively at 41% and 7%. Small-sample state breakdowns have yes leading 45-44 in New South Wales, and trailing 44-43 in Victoria, 58-35 in Queensland, 58-34 in Western Australia and 45-37 in South Australia. The poll was conducted Wednesday to Sunday from a sample of 1151.

No word from Tassie?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 12:28 pm

Speaking of things Russian this is amusing in a very black comedic sort of way.

‘Threat to global security’: Russia’s Wagner mercenary group declared a terrorist organisation by UK government (Sky News, 6 Sep)

The United Kingdom will officially declare Russia’s Wagner group a terrorist organisation, making it illegal to join or support the group in Britain.

Home Secretary Suella Braverman said the mercenary group, formerly led by Yevgeny Prigozhin, was a “threat to global security,” pointing to their activities in Ukraine and Africa as evidence of the danger they posed to peace and stability.

Following the death of Prigohzin, Ms Braverman added Wagner was now a “violent and destructive” tool under the direct control of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Prigozhin and his pet nazi Utkin were fine upstanding heroes or something. Now that Wagner has fallen into the clutches of Vlad they’re a bunch of terrorists. Go figure.

It’s turtles all the way down with this stuff. Nothing is believable.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 6, 2023 12:32 pm

Win or lose, backing Yes protects them from the Black Spot.

This is true enough.
But more than that, each of the corporations on the list has an intimate and functional relationship with governments that have their arses on the line supporting Yes.

A bit of reciprocating never goes astray when you’re in the special pleading business.

Lysander
Lysander
September 6, 2023 12:34 pm

https://twitter.com/_/status/1699150370088366537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Biden walks out mid-ceremony for war hero without realising the ceremony is not yet over.

duncanm
duncanm
September 6, 2023 12:35 pm

The feds are inventing nazis again the the US

https://twitter.com/Stephen19718352/status/1698174744728576039

KevinM
KevinM
September 6, 2023 12:36 pm

Makka Avatar
Makka
Sep 6, 2023 12:23 PM

The last link was to the Grauniad, just to be even handed about things.

Oh, well there you have it. Quite even handed. A totally unbiased leftist/globalist/woke bull horn. Any more respectable sources , Bruce?

Sadly it’s getting to the stage where BoN’s posts have to scrolled unless it’s about scientific matters. Why do people think that because they are expert in one field they are automatically experts in all?

Same as celebrities, fortunately, some like Anthony Hopkins had the grace and wisdom to say he was an actor repeating what someone else wrote and not an expert.

Roger
Roger
September 6, 2023 12:38 pm

I don’t know that there’d be much reciprocity about it.

If it came to pass, that is.

Councils would be obliged to refer (defer?) to local elders on virtually all matters.

“Oh…but we thought it was all, you know, symbolic.”

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 12:40 pm

Instead, like ALL MSM news outlets it is towing the woke/US agenda of demonizing the evil devil satanic Vlad and glorifying the saintliness of Zelenskiy and the knights in shining armour of NATO/ Biden and the Euro parasites.

Baddies vs baddies, Makka, as someone once said. Embrace the concept.

I am sad that Putin was conned into invading Ukraine. Russia had potential to be the best country on the planet, but to do that they had to go for growth, science, engineering, peace and rejecting green rubbish. Pretty much had that full set sorted, but then faceplanted on the peace bit.

A better approach would have been to become so prosperous that the ex-Soviet statelets would clamour to join – like countries did with the EU up to about 10 years ago. As it is now the top talent is getting out of Russia.

FALLOUT: Russia’s massive brain drain is ravaging the economy – these stunning figures show why it will soon be smaller than Indonesia’s (4 Sep)

A very bright Russian STEM friend and their family that I know did so last year.

Dunny Brush
Dunny Brush
September 6, 2023 12:41 pm

Google got to google. A search for “voice to parliament no campaign” returns page after page of sbs/ abc/ guardian articles criticising it. These tech companies need to be broken up

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 6, 2023 12:45 pm

I don’t know that there’d be much reciprocity about it.

Roger: I’m seeing First Nations humbugging up to government – and government humbugging back down in return.

The mutual dishonesty and mealy-mouthing would choke a brown dog.

John H.
John H.
September 6, 2023 12:51 pm

Hailing Peter the Great, Putin draws parallel with mission to ‘return’ Russian lands

In July 2021, the Kremlin published a long essay by Putin in which he argued that Russia and Ukraine were one nation, artificially divided. It laid the groundwork for his deployment of troops to Ukraine.

Thank heavens Russia’s conventional military forces are in such a sad state because that prevents him going all in on restoring Russian lands. If you want a good laugh watch “Combat Approved“, a Russian propaganda documentary on their military.

Lysander
Lysander
September 6, 2023 12:51 pm

Shoebridge, from Australia’s Military Industrial Complex, made a funny joke on Steve Price last night… he said…

“While Kim Jon Un’s trips were closely guarded State secrets, we know more about them that what Marles has been doing” 😛

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 12:52 pm

“Why do people think that because they are expert in one field they are automatically experts in all?”

Why indeed.

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 12:52 pm

I am sad that Putin was conned into invading Ukraine. Russia had potential to be the best country on the planet, but to do that they had to go for growth, science, engineering, peace and rejecting green rubbish. Pretty much had that full set sorted, but then faceplanted on the peace bit.

At least, we agree on this.

It was a terribly costly error. But I can’t see them giving up the territory won in Ukraine so a ceasefire is needed asap to prevent more slaughter and remove the risks of a nuke exchange. That I think is all that matters now.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 12:53 pm

Why do people think that because they are expert in one field they are automatically experts in all?

Kevin – I can’t help it if you are indoctrinated and wrong. Sorry mate, but I have read a lot of history and I do know the species when I see it in the wild.

As I said I admire Putin for his embrace of the Orthodox Church, it was very Constantinian. But he’s managed to piss off all his geographical neighbours in the most pissed-off way imaginable. That isn’t statesmanlike. He also isn’t a good stategy guy, certainly no Fredrick the Great. Elizabeth of Russia was much better. Even Nicholas II was better.

The confusing aspect these days is that pretty much all the world’s governments have degraded into pseudo-fascist authoritarian ones, who spout propaganda like a firehose. It is therefore hard to pick through the rubbish for what is really happening. There are a few countries which are still not too bad like Hungary and Poland. But the EU, US, Russia and Ukraine are all either classically fascist or pseudo-fascist, and there’s a multitude of kiddie Leni Riefenstahl’s at work on all sides.

On the other hand the ultimate in statescraft is to win. Putin therefore is a loser, since he immolating his own country after getting his dick caught in a vise. Ukraine can’t win of course, they lost day one. But both sides can be losers. I’ve seen it many times: Ethiopia/Eritrea, Iran/Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Yemen. And that’s only in the last half century.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 6, 2023 12:54 pm

Reading lots of history doesn’t make you right.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 12:58 pm

I should say as a coda that Hungary and Poland, despite being level headed as countries, have a diametrically opposite view of Russia…

Neither much like Ukraine though. 😀

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 12:59 pm

“Kevin – I can’t help it if you are indoctrinated and wrong. Sorry mate, but I have read a lot of history and I do know the species when I see it in the wild.”

Oh dear, note the the passive aggression.

Oh and you’re not the only one here who’s read a lot of history……..mate.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:00 pm

Reading lots of history doesn’t make you right.

So not reading lots of history makes you right?

Baddies vs baddies. It’s a liberating concept to embrace.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 1:05 pm

(Forgive me)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/5/2191502/-Ukraine-Update-Ukraine-breaches-Russia-s-2nd-Surovikin-Line-west-of-Verbove

https://ustimespost.com/how-ukraine-is-storming-russian-frontline-with-tsunami-squads-british-tanks-smashing-through-putins-best-troops/

Some high-level copium but progress for the Ukrainians no less.

However, it’s (I’m a civilian) basically trench warfare. Any continuation of the war will be slow, very bloody and for little gain.

Putin and Zelensky can both save face so a peace treaty is possible.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 6, 2023 1:05 pm

I never said that

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:08 pm

Oh dear, note the the passive aggression.

Yes. Yes, I have noticed it. Quite often in fact.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 1:11 pm

“Yes. Yes, I have noticed it. Quite often in fact.”

Well you need to be mindful of it, plus the complete inability to accept when you’re wrong. I note the other night you scuttled off when you were completely demolished.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:15 pm

Putin and Zelensky can both save face so a peace treaty is possible.

Dot – Nothing much is happening on the front line apart from a bit here and their. Russia sensibly fortified everything within 80 km of the frontline.

A peace treaty isn’t possible, since Putin can’t do what is required and survive (nor probably his family). And Zelenksy will never get a referendum up, which is constitutionally required. Which means this wretched farce will go on and on and on, like the Iran/Iraq War. Worse probably.

And the neocons will win because their war aim was always to knobble Russia.

Viva
Viva
September 6, 2023 1:18 pm

Dentist to patient: OK now, open wiiiide.

My dentist always said “open bigger”

I was never in a position to correct his grammar

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:18 pm

Good reporting on the Sydney Metro scam (or scam adjacent) by the smh.
Now they can go through the billion dollar scams that the big four run.

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 1:19 pm

but progress for the Ukrainians no less.

Can’t see it, myself.

BBC:

Ukraine’s defence minister Oleksii Reznikov dismissed

And just when victory was in sight?

Big Serge ??????
@witte_sergei
Looks like we have our first challenger kill.

(Burning Challenger tank)

The only progress being made in Ukraine is in the remittances to corruptocrats bank accounts and chewing through the lives of combatants and civilians alike.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:19 pm

Well you need to be mindful of it, plus the complete inability to accept when you’re wrong.

Well, Cassie, you need to be mindful of it too, plus your complete inability to accept when you’re wrong also. Fair’s fair.

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 1:21 pm
feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:22 pm

The report that “Australia needs to invest in SE Asia” is quite ridiculous.
Many of Australia’s richest families have been for at least the last decade.
Some for a lot longer.
As have some of the smartest Australian based investors.
It doesn’t need a government granted licence or some kind of tax payer underwritten moat.
Smart money will always find innovative places & assets to allocate their funds.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 1:24 pm

“Well, Cassie, you need to be mindful of it too, plus your complete inability to accept when you’re wrong also. Fair’s fair”

I do, you don’t. You really are pathetic.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 1:24 pm

The report that “Australia needs to invest in SE Asia” is quite ridiculous.

No, we need to invest your money.

Barry
Barry
September 6, 2023 1:25 pm

How come the new Qntarse CEO is not a boorie?

Not really walking the walk, are they.

Perhaps they just follow the discrimination hierarchy: poof, chick, cripple, abo, tranny. A long way to go yet.

Johnny Rotten
September 6, 2023 1:27 pm

Viva
Sep 6, 2023 1:18 PM
Dentist to patient: OK now, open wiiiide.

My dentist always said “open bigger”

I was never in a position to correct his grammar

It’s when the dentist says – ‘Now, this is not going to hurt’ which is a bit like – ‘I’m from the Guv’ment and I’m here to help you………………..

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:28 pm

No, we need to invest your money.

Well they didn’t become the millionaires factory by investing their own money.
Get investors & shareholders to underwrite the downside.
Get a disproportionate cut of the upside.
Easy money.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:30 pm

Burning Challenger tank

The unarmoured fuel tanks that sit on the back likely caused the fire. Looked like diesel going up. Turret and armour appear to be intact. The most plausible observation I’ve seen so far is that it was halted by a mine then came under either artillery or AA rocket fire. The tank is stuffed but the crew quite possibly survived.

First British Challenger tank ever lost in war in flames in Ukraine (5 Sep)

I usually avoid anything Lt Col Crawford opines on strategically, but this area is his direct experience and I thought his observations were interesting. Not necessarily correct.

Challenger 2 (wiki)

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:30 pm

The new Qantas CEO has been on the ExCo for the last 5 years but didn’t know the extent of the issues that Joyce is now being blamed for?

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 1:31 pm

A peace treaty isn’t possible, since Putin can’t do what is required and survive (nor probably his family). And Zelenksy will never get a referendum up, which is constitutionally required.

How do you know that? You’re just making an assumption here and there.

Why you are possibly wrong:

1. Russia has already made significant territorial gains.
2. Ukrainians are likely very sick of the war and retain most of the territorial integrity they had pre-invasion

The only progress being made in Ukraine is in the remittances to corruptocrats bank accounts and chewing through the lives of combatants and civilians alike.

How do you cash in a burnt-out Challenger tank? Defence is a big ticket item but so many industries have been shut down or cruelled. If there are collections to be made, I would hazard the mafia prefers peacetime.

Gas, wheat, sunflower…exported at significant volumes, but not so much now.

Rabz
September 6, 2023 1:33 pm

Oh, look who’s yapping today.

Thanks calli, that list of guest upcoming NPCs speaking at the NPC is unintentionally hilarious.

“Greg Zombet, Chair of the Year Zero Economy Agency”

Aaaaand (drum roll):

“The Waffleroach and Dame Edna Turnbuckle” The latter’s picture appears to have been subject to some “retouching”, shall we say.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 1:34 pm

I see we now have our very own Henry Kissinger.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:36 pm

2. Ukrainians are likely very sick of the war and retain most of the territorial integrity they had pre-invasion

This.
Time for a DMZ.
Russia keeps Crimea.
And if Obama hadn’t wrecked the Red Line doctrine, it would be ideal to say if Russia moves one inch into the DMZ, half a dozen oil fields get nuked.

What’s better?
A piece deal & a DMZ backed by the nuclear threat.
Or a proxy war forever with a non stop nuclear threat.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 6, 2023 1:38 pm

Zelensky really can’t hold a referendum while he’s banned opposition parties & shut down all opposition media.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 1:39 pm

“You’re just making an assumption here and there.”

Now that he is an expert at.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 1:43 pm

The referendum thing is bit of a joke.

Was Crimea or Minsk I or II ever put to a referendum?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:46 pm

I do, you don’t. You really are pathetic.

Erudite!

John H.
John H.
September 6, 2023 1:49 pm

Putin and Zelensky can both save face so a peace treaty is possible.

Because of his territorial gains Putin might save face but Zelensky will be humiliated for the same reason. If Russia demonstrated much better military capability Zelensky could use that as an excuse but as things now stand he probably believes Putin can forced into stalemate. The Moskva, a first class naval vessel was taken out by some very mediocre missiles(the back story to that is funny), Russia still hasn’t defeated the Ukrainian air force, has been relying on mercenary groups, and is now dug in hoping to wear down an offensive. In short, militarily, Russia sucks so Zelensky continues to fight.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 1:55 pm

Zelensky continues to fight because the West continues to provide him with weapons.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 1:59 pm

Dot – It is well known that a peace deal would have to go to a Ukrainian referendum. Do you really think ordinary Ukrainians would say yes to that? Really? They hate Russians worse than anything. Which is fairly mutual.

I doubt Zelensky would last long if he tried to call a referendum either. Like in Russia he has his own ultranationalists to deal with. His security is unlikely to be as tight as Vlad’s, since he’s more like an advertising frontman that the guy in actual power.

All I can see is a 2014-2022 style low grade war in prospect. I can’t see peace occurring. Grudges in that part of the world die only after geologic aeons.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 2:01 pm

It is well known that a peace deal would have to go to a Ukrainian referendum

I just gave you three examples of that not happening in the last ten years.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 2:05 pm

Wondering out loud here. Was Trump ever told about the American biolabs in Ukeland, or were they a deepstate secret?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 2:07 pm

The Moskva, a first class naval vessel was taken out by some very mediocre missiles

They very nearly sank naval landing ship RNS Olenegorsky Gornyak last month using a tinny. And that was clear over the Black Sea in Novorossiysk.

Doesn’t bode well for the RAN in the future.

Jorge
Jorge
September 6, 2023 2:10 pm

Dot, stick to the point. You’re fond of rants that go off on tangents.

And stop basking in your own implied brilliance by calling others stupid. You’re not some kind of eternal undergraduate are you ?

Johnny Rotten
September 6, 2023 2:11 pm

Was Crimea or Minsk I or II ever put to a referendum?

The Minsk Agreement was never honoured.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 2:12 pm

I got to the point in about three sentences and then explained in detail why I was correct.

Collective guilt is utter bullshit.

I’m not guilty of what anyone else has done.

The end.

Davey Boy
Davey Boy
September 6, 2023 2:15 pm

pineapples on pizza. No nono nono nooooo.

JC
JC
September 6, 2023 2:21 pm

Can someone explain this. The breakup of the old Soviet Union was achieved peacefully, so why does Russia want parts of Ukraine? Russian speakers living in the disputed zone were there all along.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 2:22 pm

I just gave you three examples of that not happening in the last ten years.

No you didn’t. You cited some poorly kept ceasefire agreements. Different fish entirely. Ukraine has never constitutionally accepted the secession of Crimea, LNR nor DNR. No referendums have been held (except by Russia, hoho). The Ukrainian government has consistently claimed that all three areas remain part of Ukraine. And their peace terms have all required the return of them.

Realpolitik is different of course, but so far I’ve not seen signs of it occurring. Of course that may change if Slow Joe and the eurocrats lose interest. There’s been some signs that, might happen but so far nothing much significant. Indeed Biden is still pouring money into the place. The opportunities for graft are enormous, after all.

It’d be interesting to see what Trump would do if he won in 2024. Unfortunately he won’t win since the fix is in.

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 2:26 pm

From Sky News:

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition government on a referendum for constitutional recognition of First Nations people should the Voice vote fail.

“Not in the least,” Ms Langton told the National Press Club of Australia on Wednesday.

“There’s no point in a second referendum because it’s not what we want.

Perfect. Marcia and I finally agree on something. I don’t want a second referendum either.

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 2:29 pm

Shorter Langton

Constitutional recognition only is not what we want.

There was always a great list of demands hiding behind the cute ickle wickle “recognition” word.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 2:31 pm

Dame Edna Turnbuckle

Yes, quite unfortunate. Although not unexpected, possibly Sydney’s 2nd most appalling couple?

P
P
September 6, 2023 2:33 pm

Her lips quivered when she spoke of the suffering of Adam Goodes and Stan Grant!

lotocoti
lotocoti
September 6, 2023 2:38 pm

The Moskva, a first class naval vessel was taken out by some very mediocre missiles

FFS
Moskva was a first class naval vessel back when I were young.
With forty years of paint, a careless smoker could’ve sent her to the bottom.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 6, 2023 2:39 pm

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition…

Words that make Uncle Luigi’s loins stir.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 2:39 pm

No you didn’t. You cited some poorly kept ceasefire agreements. Different fish entirely.

One wasn’t even a ceasefire agreement, just an acknowledgment of reality.

A ceasefire held long enough is effectively a peace treaty. Sometimes better.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 2:43 pm

Rabz

“The Waffleroach and Dame Edna Turnbuckle” The latter’s picture appears to have been subject to some “retouching”, shall we say.

“Some” is the understatement of the year. But the hounds of the media will not comment on the obvious (except perhaps to say how young she looks).

Buccaneer
Buccaneer
September 6, 2023 2:47 pm

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition government on a referendum for constitutional recognition of First Nations people should the Voice vote fail.

“Not in the least,” Ms Langton told the National Press Club of Australia on Wednesday.

“There’s no point in a second referendum because it’s not what we want.

Marcia Langton unintentionally admitted here that the architects of the Voice wouldn’t work with their non-preferred political masters, regardless of the topic.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 2:48 pm

“Not in the least,” Ms Langton told the National Press Club of Australia on Wednesday.

“There’s no point in a second referendum because it’s not what we want.

And unless she gets what she wants, she will stamp her little feet and hold her breath until her face turns black?

calli
calli
September 6, 2023 2:50 pm

Poor Adam Goodes. This would be the same Adam Goodes who called a 13 year old child the “face of racism in Australia”. The child separated from her accompanying adult and questioned by police for over an hour?

Yes, yes. He certainly has had some poor treatment.

Poor Stan Grant. This would be the same Stan Grant who loudly berated an ABC colleague in the foyer a few months ago? No reason, just feeling “fragile”.

More poor treatment.

JC
JC
September 6, 2023 2:51 pm

And stop basking in your own implied brilliance by calling others stupid.

I don’t it was Dot who said he grandpa was BFF with Harry Oppenheimer.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 2:51 pm

Does this mean we will hear nothing from marcia langton should a coalition government occur? I can’t wait for the shrill cries when the No vote gets announced. Sex and travel come to mind.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 6, 2023 2:52 pm

I think it was Bon, JC.

JMH
JMH
September 6, 2023 2:53 pm

Langton:

“There’s no point in a second referendum because it’s not what we want.”

Dutton has his stupid 2nd Referendum escape clause right there.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 2:53 pm

A ceasefire held long enough is effectively a peace treaty. Sometimes better.

Dot – Yes, there’ve been a few comments around and about that a DMZ and a situation like the Korean Peninsula might be an option. That’s not a peace treaty though. Technically the Korean War is still going after 70 years.

It’s fun that S Korea never signed the Armistice Agreement. China and S Korea signed a peace treaty in 1992, but the situation between N Korea and S Korea is just a ceasefire.

If the Chinese decide to get excitably excitable I suspect that might change.

Kneel
Kneel
September 6, 2023 2:53 pm

” Which means this wretched farce will go on and on and on, like the Iran/Iraq War. Worse probably. “

It would end instantly if the West pulled all support for Ukraine – far from optimal, I agree, but you have to admit that without that support, it wouldn’t have lasted as long as it already has.

JC
JC
September 6, 2023 2:53 pm

Whoops don’t think

Makka
Makka
September 6, 2023 2:59 pm

If there are collections to be made, I would hazard the mafia prefers peacetime.

The “mafia” in this case are the hundreds of contractors, middle men, enablers, contact makers and other grubby official and semi-official actors pocketing windfalls from their wares, positions, time and influence. The many three letter Agencies involved, where hundreds of millions of $’s changing hands buying and supplying material- not just weapons- into the massive money generating Russia/Ukraine war. This is the graft and corrupt machine that the neocons are feeding and no doubt benefiting from.

Just an example- the US DoD has failed it’s audit 5 times.. Where do you think the money goes?

One burning tank proves this isn’t happening , of course. More of your naivete shining through.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 6, 2023 3:00 pm

Sorry mate, but I have read a lot of history and I do know the species when I see it in the wild

‘Blamey rode a tyrannosaurus’

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 3:02 pm

‘Blamey rode a tyrannosaurus’

Called MacArthur. Shit job, but someone had to do it.

shatterzzz
September 6, 2023 3:02 pm

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition government on a referendum for constitutional recognition of First Nations people should the Voice vote fail.

Is this the same Marcia Langton who said we’d never hear from her again when the VOICE fails? …

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:05 pm

Just an example- the US DoD has failed it’s audit 5 times.. Where do you think the money goes?

Apparently they have a 35 to 50 trillion USD “accounting discrepancy” they want to hand-wave away and the American public do not seem interested in.

Real Deal
Real Deal
September 6, 2023 3:05 pm

Yes, quite unfortunate. Although not unexpected, possibly Sydney’s 2nd most appalling couple?

I guessing, Bear, that the most appalling couple have an annual shindig on the day next to January 26th at their Harbourside pad. And one of them is a bald-headed flog.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:07 pm

Just an example- the US DoD has failed it’s audit 5 times.. Where do you think the money goes?

One burning tank proves this isn’t happening , of course.

Correct. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT WAS A BRITISH TANK, LOL!

Lee
Lee
September 6, 2023 3:07 pm

And unless she [Marcia Langton] gets what she wants, she will stamp her little feet and hold her breath until her face turns black?

One can live in hope.

P
P
September 6, 2023 3:08 pm
Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 3:13 pm

So reviving the 90s ‘Union State’ proposal put together by both the Belarusian and the Russian governments is a plan of annexation?

Dover – Dot is referring to the leaked plan to annex Belarus by 2030.

Leaked Russian document shows how Putin plans to annex ally Belarus by 2030 (22 Feb)

Not going to happen now that Lukashenko talked Vlad into giving him nukes.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 6, 2023 3:13 pm

Courier-Mail poll:

Will John Farnham giving his song to the Voice campaign make you change your vote?
Yes 4 %
No 96 %
4510 votes

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:14 pm

Those horrible westerners more or less openly trying to get rid of a dictator in power since 1994.

If only like Vlad they had a secret plan to stab Lukashenko in the back.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 6, 2023 3:16 pm

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition government on a referendum for constitutional recognition of First Nations people should the Voice vote fail.

They are not your friends Lieborals.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:17 pm

As much as I never believed Prigozhin was going to be “redeployed” in Belarus, I don’t believe Putin gave Lukashenko nukes.

Why would he, after he wasn’t greeted as a liberator in Ukraine?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 3:18 pm

Speaking of the knocked out British tank.

First Batch of American Abrams Tanks Set to Arrive in Ukraine This Month (1 Sep)

It will be very interesting to see how they go against Russian anti-armour weapons. One of those things tank guys on both sides of the fence have been speculating on for about 70 years.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:22 pm

How did

Bush I
Clinton
Trump

Stymie a prosperous Russia? Were any of their actions unfair?

The EU can’t even abide by their own sanctions they put on Russia after Ukraine was invaded.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 6, 2023 3:23 pm

Might need the parasol in Kyoto, Rosie.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 3:24 pm

I don’t believe Putin gave Lukashenko nukes.

He gave him nukes.

Ukraine war: the implications of Moscow moving tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus (31 Aug)

They’re in the middle of Belarus, surrounded by the Belarussian Army. They’re his, in effect. Ok there might be issues with codes and software and whatnot, but it wouldn’t take much to bypass all that. The important stuff is the plutonium and the warhead mechanism. Would not take a great deal of work to remove the control electronics and replace them with a bootleg circuit board.

Lee
Lee
September 6, 2023 3:26 pm

Voice Co-Design Report author Professor Marcia Langton has made it clear she will not work with a future Coalition government on a referendum for constitutional recognition of First Nations people should the Voice vote fail.

They are not your friends Lieborals.

The main reason that Labor is so keen on the Voice is because it will make it almost impossible for any future conservative or right-wing party to actually govern.

Liberal pollies and their supporters who are in favour of the Voice make the fatal mistake of assuming that the left is sincere about its objectives; it never is.

Cassie of Sydney
September 6, 2023 3:30 pm

“He gave him nukes.”

Always the expert, on nothing. Earlier Linky Boy linked to The Guardian, now Linky Boy links to The Conversation.

I think Linky Boy needs to get out and get some sunshine.

Dot
Dot
September 6, 2023 3:31 pm

Ok there might be issues with codes and software and whatnot, but it wouldn’t take much to bypass all that. The important stuff is the plutonium and the warhead mechanism. Would not take a great deal of work to remove the control electronics and replace them with a bootleg circuit board.

No, this would be extremely difficult.

Siltstone
Siltstone
September 6, 2023 3:33 pm

Lee @ 3:36
+1
Yes, constant taxpayer funded litigation against the Government and federal departments

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 3:33 pm

JMH
Sep 6, 2023 2:53 PM
Langton:

“There’s no point in a second referendum because it’s not what we want.”

Dutton has his stupid 2nd Referendum escape clause right there.

He seems to have read the activists quite well. Make a promise that could sway some dubious YES voters towards NO, then have Langton throwing a hissy fit, making it clear that they want much, much, more than “recognition”., confirming the change of voting intention.

P
P
September 6, 2023 3:36 pm
Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 3:37 pm

Top Ender
Sep 6, 2023 3:13 PM
Courier-Mail poll:

Will John Farnham giving his song to the Voice campaign make you change your vote?
Yes 4 %
No 96 %
4510 votes

Anyone under the age of fifty who was asked: “John Who?”

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 6, 2023 3:37 pm

Called MacArthur. Shit job, but someone had to do it.

Blamey. A shit bloke who did it shitfully.

This was discussed at length some time back. Cherrypicking does not a historian make.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 6, 2023 3:38 pm

Because the US (and the Europeans) would never have sought to contain an reinvigorated and prosperous Russia. Does anyone really believe this?

Dover – Exhibit A: Deng Xiaoping.

If Xi had continued with Deng’s open economy policies for say 20 more years China would be unbeatable. Taiwan might even have voluntarily sought a merger.

Recall when the US sought to work with China and encouraged investment? Very hard, though, to overcome geopolitical considerations – the Great Game has been continuing for at least four centuries so far. And before that there was the Thucydidies Trap.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 6, 2023 3:39 pm

They’re in the middle of Belarus, surrounded by the Belarussian Army. They’re his, in effect. Ok there might be issues with codes and software and whatnot, but it wouldn’t take much to bypass all that.

Good luck trying that.

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