New Catallaxy

Virus propaganda, or is it dimwittedness?

This morning’s editorial in the Australian: “vaccines remain Australia’s best weapon against infection. As chief medical officer Paul Kelly pointed out…two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated.”

There are two things amiss with this sloppy statement. First, vaccines do not prevent infection. These days most people who become infected have been vaccinated. It’s just a matter of fact, which even journalists could discover if they looked. As a weapon against infection, vaccines are therefore next to useless, if not totally useless.

Second, Kelly’s statistic on the status of those in NSW in ICU’s is meaningless as it stands. Among other things, we need to know how many of those in ICU’s have contributory health conditions and, vitally, whether those health conditions dissuaded, many or all, of the “two-thirds” from being vaccinated.

ICU’s may be dealing with the same cohort of people: those with serious underlying health conditions. A subset risked vaccination. While a larger subset didn’t. It might still be the case that those with serious underlying health conditions are better off being vaccinated. But the statistic, as it stands, doesn’t reveal that. It certainly, as it stands, says nothing about the benefits of vaccination for those without such underlying health conditions,

I don’t know the facts. Kelly maybe does. In any event, we are not being told.  What we have is yet more superficiality. I’d call it propaganda, but that’s maybe giving too much credit to the powers that be. Limited people quoting and requoting statistics that they don’t understand. A more intelligent and enquiring press would be handy.  

Peter Smith

40 responses to “Virus propaganda, or is it dimwittedness?”

  1. bemused Avatar
    bemused

    …two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated

    My guess is that he’s blatantly lying. If found out, his excuse will be: ‘That’s what the ‘experts’ told me’.

    16
  2. Justabloke Avatar
    Justabloke

    Frustratingly they all leave out the relevant supporting facts and have continued to do it. None of them have a proper gander at anything. Maths is hard but with so few in ICU you would think they might have a go. If this was all they did/didn’t do, I would go with dimwits. When you look at the weasel word definitions and timing of what is classified a Covid case/death and what is not a Covid vaxx death and everyone of them is pushing the vaxx/booster line at the same time, I say its propaganda.

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  3. Lee Avatar
    Lee

    As chief medical officer Paul Kelly pointed out…two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated.”

    How can we trust that all of the “two-thirds” even have Covid?

    19
  4. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    I wouldn’t trust that Kelly character as far as I could throw him — and neither, I’m guessing, would most Australians. Just another in our long line of shifty bushrangers in a government suit.

    19
  5. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated

    Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe that statement?

    The preposterous fascist mongrels have been lying incessantly since February 2020.

    Here, that mackeyesque dildo has been among the worst.

    Just sod off with your constant hysterical fear porn, you arrogant utterly discredited imbeciles.

    Enough.

    31
  6. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    I’ll just quote from today’s report, since it pretty much says everything.

    NSW records rise in hospitalisations, one death and 12,226 cases while Victoria’s reports 13 fatalities and 5,137 infections (Sky News, 30 Dec)

    Coronavirus case numbers continue to soar in the two most populous states in Australia.

    New South Wales recorded one death but there was a jump in hospitalisations over a 24-hour period.

    The number of patients in hospital sits at 746, up 121, and 63 are in the intensive care unit, up two on the previous day.

    So we’re having over twelve thousand infected people that we know of (ie. it’s probably three time that in reality) yet there are only two more people serious enough to have to go into ICU.

    The insanity is off scale right now. These attacks of the sniffles are turning the brains of the CHOs and pollies into Marty Feldman material.

    25
  7. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    Doctors and medical scientists should lose a some credibility after this.

    If the white coat cult didn’t have quasi-religious overtones they would, anyway.

    And what are the odds that the next time there is a pandemic, a genuinely serious one, vaccine hestitancy will be higher?

    20
  8. Bar Beach Swimmer Avatar
    Bar Beach Swimmer

    I’d call it propaganda, but that’s maybe giving too much credit to the powers that be

    You’re too generous, Peter. The government has all the resources in the world to determine the facts. On top of that it has had almost two years to know what’s going on and nine months of vaccine data to work it out.

    In NSW, our Dear Leader Chant, has on a number of occasions deliberately played fast and loose with the truth as to who’s in ICU and what their medical conditions really are.

    We’re at the stage that faith in the system is at an all time low and that is down purely to this crop of politicians and bureaucrats.

    26
  9. Chris M Avatar
    Chris M

    two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated

    Means they have not had a booster shot (which is currently shot #3).

    19
  10. Plasmamortar Avatar
    Plasmamortar

    I have a theory on the next step we take from here…

    We have the infrastructure now in place for population control: Vaccine passports, quarantine camps, constant monitoring of people.
    As covid dies away, we need a new way to scare everyone…
    What happens when we move to the next pandemic?
    I don’t mean a fake one either

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlx8WTKAgVY
    Around 1:45 in “germ games”

    fda.gov/drugs/news-events-human-drugs/fda-approves-drug-treat-smallpox
    Why do we need a new drug for an extinct virus?

    https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/smallpox
    Read under ‘Stores of smallpox and future vaccination’

    This would give them the excuse they need for more control

    8
  11. Crossie Avatar
    Crossie

    Doctors and medical scientists should lose a some credibility after this.

    Roger, they have. It will take a few generations for the trust and respect to return. I don’t think we will be seeing any new medical TV shows for some time.

    6
  12. Barry Avatar
    Barry

    Logical Fallacy writ large (intentionally)

    Cats are animals
    Dogs are animals
    Therefore cats are dogs.

    Most people in ICU are unvaccinated
    You are unvaccinated
    Therefore you will end up in ICU and die.

    It’s just a noble lie to keep pushing the vaxx.

    14
  13. Old bloke Avatar
    Old bloke

    …two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated

    What does “unvaccinated” mean or refer to?

    Had two jabs but hadn’t had his/her booster?
    Had taken 1st, 2nd or 3rd jab in the past two weeks (and was therefore unvaxxed?)
    Wasn’t in hospital for Covid-19 related issues?

    16
  14. Damon Avatar
    Damon

    The only ‘facts’ of interest are the number of people in hospital, and the number of deaths. Oh, and the autopsy results, that are never provided.

    19
  15. bemused Avatar
    bemused

    I should have kept the link, but one of the local online rags had a story about some bint who sat in her car for 26 hours to get tested, wouldn’t move in case she lost her place, while busting to go to the toilet.

    If you can sit in a car and hold your piss for 26 hours, there’s a good chance that you’re not going to keel over from the faux-virus, more likely from something serious.

    19
  16. Bruce Avatar
    Bruce

    Some timely work here:

    http://www.sondrakistan.com/2021/12/22/wednesday-ps-dump/

    MUCH more scorn and derision is in order from here on.

    3
  17. Angus Black Avatar
    Angus Black

    If the data supported the story they wanted us to believe, The raw data would be being pushed down our throats.

    11
  18. Doggy Avatar
    Doggy

    Peter, anyone over 65 has at least one health issue. A person over 75 would have a dozen or more.

    4
  19. ArthurB Avatar
    ArthurB

    A friend has just told me about his latest problem. He wanted to visit his grandchildren, and rang his daughter in law to arrange a time. To his surprise, she asked him if he had been vaccinated against whooping cough, he said he didn’t know, he thought that he had been vaccinated as a child. Whooping cough is definitely a nasty disease, but its incidence is very low, and if you were infected, you would be well aware of the symptoms. However, it seems that his daughter in law is adamant – no whooping cough jab, no visit. I look forward to hearing of the latest development.

    What next? Will our rulers insist that all Australians must be vaccinated against smallpox, just in case there is an outbreak? What about yellow fever, cholera etc? Truly, our rulers have become deranged tyrants.

    17
  20. Cool-Snoopy Avatar
    Cool-Snoopy

    WORD GAMES: “Fully vaccinated” in Australia has a VERY SPECIFIC definition by ATAGI.
    Note that this definition “may be updated over time based on emerging evidence”.
    Damn right this definition may be updated over time.
    Several countries have already changed the definition of “fully vaccinated” to include “plus booster”.

    10
  21. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    And what are the odds that the next time there is a pandemic, a genuinely serious one, vaccine hestitancy will be higher?

    When was the last Pandemic, Roger?

  22. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    Will our rulers insist that all Australians must be vaccinated against smallpox, just in case there is an outbreak?

    They did, about 60 years ago.
    Everyone complied.
    There wasn’t an outbreak though, never had been an outbreak.

  23. mizaris Avatar
    mizaris

    And what are the odds that the next time there is a pandemic, a genuinely serious one, vaccine hestitancy will be higher?

    That’s my main concern – all this wolf crying will harden hearts and minds, and when the manure really comes into contact with the air conditioning, it’s going to be extremely difficult to convince people that it really is serious.

    11
  24. a reader Avatar
    a reader

    ArthurBsays:
    December 30, 2021 at 8:45 pm

    I see posts like this all the time on instagram from 20-30 something women I know who are preggers are have just given birth. I find it absurd but sums up our neurotic age

    3
  25. Jannie Avatar
    Jannie

    The best defence against the vaccines is Omicron. Its mild and it gives your body the chance to build immunity at its own pace. Fortunately its so infectious everybody will have already had it by the time they mandate a new vaccine.

    12
  26. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    I see posts like this all the time on instagram from 20-30 something women I know who are preggers are have just given birth

    The obstetricians and midwives will have terrified them with horror stories about babies dying of whooping cough. And an awful disease it certainly is.

    But the pertussis vaccine is near universal for all folks, and more or less lifelong immunity is conferred.

    And the rarity of natal and toddler pertussis infections these days makes it almost exactly as neurotic as you claim, Jannie.

    7
  27. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    Sorry- A reader.

    +1 to Jannie’s comment above.

    1
  28. Perfidious Albino Avatar
    Perfidious Albino

    They always pick that 1 day in weeks when they can manipulate the data sufficiently to splash this kind of headline.

    I would almost bet my house most of the so called ‘unvaccinated’ are in ICU’s following adverse vaccination reactions within days of their 2nd or 3rd jabs and therefore not technically considered ‘fully’ vaccinated.

    11
  29. bemused Avatar
    bemused

    Peter, anyone over 65 has at least one health issue. A person over 75 would have a dozen or more.

    I doubt that lowered eyesight, or a dicky knee will have much impact on the virus.

    6
  30. Vicki Avatar
    Vicki

    Peter, the informed commentators overseas are really starting to intensify their concern for the extremities of the official advice and the explanation for it.

    The incongruities have always been there to see but have been becoming even more obvious. An example is the sudden reduction in lengths of quarantine required – a development happening OS as well as here. It is SO obvious now that there was never any real basis for rules such as theses. They were just numbers plucked out of the air with horrific consequences for the people involved. Most of the idiot rules are.

    Maybe, just maybe, this is the time that the plebs finally “see the light”.

    15
  31. Diogenes Avatar
    Diogenes

    But the pertussis vaccine is near universal for all folks, and more or less lifelong immunity is conferred.

    No only about 30 years. I caught whooping cough aged 50 10 years ago and it was a real bitch. I was off work for 2 weeks.

    Our DiL insisted on whooping cough Vax before we saw the first grandson. Having seen lots of bubs with whooping cough when NO2 son was in hospital, we had no problem complying

    6
  32. Damon Avatar
    Damon

    “There wasn’t an outbreak though, never had been an outbreak.” This is incorrect. Smallpox arrived in Australia shortly after the First Fleet, in 1789, and spread quickly through the Aboriginal population. The last smallpox case in Australia was identified during the First World War.

    2
  33. Angus Black Avatar
    Angus Black

    When was the last Pandemic, Roger?

    1918 influenza pandemic, I’d say…the mid-century pandemics were no worse than WuFlu.

    3
  34. Kneel Avatar
    Kneel

    “My guess is that he’s blatantly lying. If found out, his excuse will be: ‘That’s what the ‘experts’ told me’.”

    Probably true, too.
    Department heads etc select “appropriate” experts to get the answer they want and present that “expert” to the minister.

    This is a failing of politicians – with very few exceptions (eg Ron Desantis) they are unable to keep up with the sheer volume of crap they are required to know about. People like Desantis have trained themselves to trust their subconscious – by using some very specific but easily learnt (after practice) “tricks”, you can have plenty of facts that you know, but don’t know you know. You can spout cogent analysis as well as said facts when asked about them, but these have not “washed across” your conscious mind as they would when you normally read them, and your “first reaction” to questions about “what are we going to do” and similar will be pretty good. The trick is to be able to trust your subconscious – much in the same way as you you don’t really think about what words to say, you just talk and trust your subconscious to expound your view correctly, you can do the same for lots of other stuff.

    You can try this yourself, it’s very easy. Grab a newspaper. Sit somewhere nice and quiet, get yourself very relaxed and pay attention to the hair on your head in the spot where a skull cap would sit – “focus” on that spot. To help get relaxed, close your eyes, take a deep breath, hold it for 2 or 3 seconds, the “explosively” release through your mouth. Do this three times.
    Now do this while keeping that “relaxed and focused” state:
    For each article in the newspaper do this (in order): 1) read the headline; 2) read the last paragraph; 3) read the first paragraph. For each page, stare at the centre of the page and without shifting your eyes, mentally draw a cross between each corner of the page.
    Finished? Good. Now go do something else for at least 30 minutes – make and eat breakfast, watch TV, play with kids, go shopping, whatever – but don’t think about the newspaper at all.
    Now sit down again, regain the “relaxed and focused” state and page slowly through the paper, glancing at each headline. If one “takes your fancy”, run you eyes slowly down each column of the story – where you eyes stop by themselves, read a sentence or two, then continue as before. You will have gleaned the most important parts (to you) of the story.

    To test how well this actually works, get someone else to go through the paper and pick a story at random, then “remind” you of what it is about with a few lines from it. Have a conversation about that article. You’ll be surprised how much you “know” about the entire paper!

    The above works really, really well – the more you practice it, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. If you (or your [grand]kids) are doing any sort of schooling, teach them this technique – they will find they easily pass the tests and get better scores, even though they didn’t think they did any better than they “normally” would have. For this application (schooling), getting into the “relaxed and focused” state just prior to lectures is also very, very useful. and allows you to “soak up” much more of the lecture.

    Some people do this naturally (at least to some extent), others need to be told about it and practice a lot. Those who can do it naturally are those “brainiac” kids at school who knew lots about lots, seemingly without effort or very much study – this is how they did/do it.

    4
  35. Intractable Avatar
    Intractable

    propaganda…or…dimwittedness?

    The latter is a prerequisite for sucseptibility to the former.

    1
  36. Miss Anthropist Avatar
    Miss Anthropist

    Just had a chat with a nurse from a Covid ward. There appear to be people there through fear and panic who aren’t that sick. The sick ones are obviously asthmatics and others of that ilk.
    It was a quick chat and I wouldn’t take it as gospel. However reinforces what I have supposed.

    5
  37. John Brumble Avatar
    John Brumble

    Dover-
    Why do you continue to tolerate Googlery? I’m sure he’s promised to keep to one commenting account in return for you letting him continue to troll.

    This thread is a very clear indication that he not only won’t keep to that: he can’t. I count two at least-possibly three.

    1
  38. Old bloke Avatar
    Old bloke

    Damon says:
    December 31, 2021 at 8:42 am

    “There wasn’t an outbreak though, never had been an outbreak.” This is incorrect. Smallpox arrived in Australia shortly after the First Fleet, in 1789, and spread quickly through the Aboriginal population. The last smallpox case in Australia was identified during the First World War.

    Smallpox was in Australia well before the First Fleet arrived. It came from fishermen in the far north of Australia who passed it on to the local indigenous folk, and it spread across the nation prior to the First Fleet’s arrival.

    5
  39. Okef Avatar
    Okef

    ArthurB, this may be more complicated, but I think I remember reading “discredited”
    doc/scientist saying that (some) childhood vaxx ruin population immunity developed over years (decades, centuries) and when childhood vaccinated give birth they do not have immunity present in previous generations, hence mothers need to be whooping cough jabbed during pregnancy so the child was protected.

    1
  40. Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Border Closure Avatar
    Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Border Closure

    bemused says: December 30, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    …two-thirds of people in ICU in NSW are unvaccinated

    My guess is that he’s blatantly lying. If found out, his excuse will be: ‘That’s what the ‘experts’ told me’.

    Explained by several commenters upthread, however here it is in a manner we can use to explain to complete dickheads:

    A bit over a week ago Slomo & the premiers had another “National Cabinet” meeting, in which they changed the definition of “fully vaccinated” to; Three jabs, rendering everybody with both shots as not fully vaccinated.

    They immediately front press conferences & play a lawyer trick; put their hand over their heart & declare covid wards that are chockers with the double-jabbed as being full of mostly unvaccinated.

    They had to change the definition of “fully vaccinated” to pull this off.

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