Guest Post: Muddy – Coerce and Comply

I recently stumbled upon an intriguing historical document (source and link at provided at the end of post) that I believe has a loose parallel with the social and economic situation we now find ourselves trapped within. It consists of notes for a lecture on Communist Interrogation Methods by Royal Australian Air Force Intelligence, and is dated circa 1953.

It may be familiar to some Cats, as I posted extracts from it on a recent open thread, but I believe it bears repeating.  

I make no claims that the conditions we are presently living under are in any way comparable with being a prisoner of war. Aside from the obvious physical and psychological differences, the interrogation of a prisoner of war is focused on the individual, whereas with Covid-19, the coercive techniques enacted to produce compliance are aimed at a very large population.  

Neither am I suggesting that our restraining authorities have had the present outcomes meticulously planned in a long-term sense. I would guess, in fact, that initially they were as shocked as anyone at the levels of compliance the population demonstrated. 

The document itself is lengthy, so I have been selective with the extracts, and have resisted the temptation to add my usual dribble, in order to allow readers to make their own interpretation.

The Eight Classifications of Coercive Interrogation are:-

(a) Isolation,

the purposes of which are to develop an intense concern with oneself, to make the victim dependent on the interrogator, and to eliminate outside support of the victim’s resistance, including mutual encouragement, praise, and blame from his fellows in terms of the moral standards of his own group.

… Frequently harsh punishments are inflicted for “violation of rules”, which are not only expected to induce co-operation but are also calculated to alienate the members of the group from one another and to provoke fear of informers.

(b) Monopolization of attention.

(c) Induced debilitation and exhaustion.

(d) Cultivation of anxiety and despair.

… Threats of punishment as a “War Criminal” – Prisoners are told that they will be considered “war criminals” until they comply; that they will be tried as “war criminals”; that they will be turned over to the civilian population for punishment.

…Threats of endless isolation – Prisoners are told that the interrogators are not in a hurry; that they will be held continuously in isolation and constantly interrogated until they capitulate.

(e) Alternating punishments and rewards,

the purposes of which are to … hinder adjustment to privation; to indicate possibilities of a “happy future” in captivity…

Special promises – [Prisoners of War] may be promised special jobs or privileged status as rewards for co-operation.

(f) Demonstrating omniscience and omnipotence of captor.

(g) Degradation,

the purposes of which are to make capitulation appear less damaging to self-pride than the indignities and debasement inflicted because of resistance; to reduce the prisoner to simple, “animal level” concerns …

Insults and taunts – Interrogators verbally abuse the prisoner. An insult which appears to have affect on the prisoner will be repeated …

Denial of privacy – Prisoners may be subject to constant surveillance; if vulnerable to embarrassment they may be forced to perform private functions in public.

(h) Enforcing trivial and absurd demands.

The purpose of which is to develop the habit of compliance. (a) Forced writing – Post [Prisoners of War] are required to write and rewrite answers to numerous questions – frequently, exceedingly trivial questions. They are given only very general instructions and forced to rewrite the answers over and over again until “an acceptable” version is completed. In this way, the tendency to seek to understand and satisfy the interrogator’s wishes is fostered.

Source: Communist Interrogation Methods, Directorate of Air Force Intelligence, Melbourne, circa 1953, p.315 – 339.

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Mark M
Mark M
September 15, 2021 12:10 pm

The wheels on the vaccination bus go thump, thump, thump …

The Australian Values Statement

September 15, 2021 12:19 pm

This can be found in Bidermans Chart of Coercion and have posted about here before.

Our “Governments” are following the script.

September 15, 2021 1:19 pm

Thanks for the link. Yes, it appears a very close copy. The interesting part is how such techniques are transferred to larger populations. What type of adaptations are required?

It is ironic that less than one hour after I emailed this piece to Dover, I was informed by a line manager (I’m presently at home on annual leave, which WAS relaxing) that the VictoryVax had been made mandatory by my employer, and that I had until the 30th of this month to comply, after which I would be ‘contacted by H.R.’ if I wasn’t VictoryVaxxed(TM). I haven’t checked my work emails yet to ascertain if there are specific consequences for non-compliance, or if the stick part of the equation has been left vague. (I’m aware I’m not the only one here at D’over Cat in this predicament). Out of roughly 60 staff, I’m aware of only perhaps two handsful of hold-outs, and I suspect that almost of them will either comply or retire from the job. The isolation aspect has been certainly working, for several of the early-adapter staff members have been repeatedly pressuring me over the past weeks, and I’m aware they are using ridicule behind my back also. These were staff members with whom I had previously had been a positive working and personal relationship, too. (To make another historical reference, I believe that the Viet Cong, when first handling new recruits, isolated those recruits (physically and otherwise) from their previous support network (family, friends, fellow villagers); to build new bonds, first the old ones must be broken.

September 15, 2021 1:23 pm

My apologies for the missing words above. I’m still a little shocked by the ultimatum. Up until now, as I’ve expressed here previously, I’ve been very lucky in terms of how I’ve fared in this zombie apocalypse.

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 15, 2021 2:28 pm

If I recall correctly, this has formed the basis of all Resistance to Interrogation courses run by Western militaries and Intelligence agencies since.

And informed their own interrogation techniques in return, albeit with an ever-increasing emphasis on maintaining the shock and disorientation of the captive from point-of-capture onwards…

Miss Anthropist
Miss Anthropist
September 15, 2021 2:50 pm

Those brainwashing techniques were and still aren’t effective on me.
But, as I have said on here before, if anyone actually and physically started to torture me they would have to punch me in the mouth to make me shut up.
Is this the new world order?
They can kiss my arse.

Bar Beach Swimmer
September 15, 2021 3:30 pm

Ask for a copy of your employer’s COVID-19 vaccination policy including details of the workers compensation benefits – medical treatment & wages – for adverse reactions etc.

Also see Mark Latham’s information for further detail on this. Best of luck.

Bar Beach Swimmer
September 15, 2021 3:49 pm

Muddy, I’ve found Latham’s press release. While the response is in relation to NSW Law, maybe there are correlations with QLD legislation. (Sorry, I’m presuming that’s where you are).

(Please see the Disclaimer at the end of this document)

One of the most important principles of our society is that people are in control of their own bodies and their own health care.
Adults need to give informed consent to vaccinations, dealing with Covid or anything else. No government or employer can directly force a medical procedure like this upon its workers and consumers. Legally, consent cannot be valid in an environment of coercion and duress.

Unfortunately in the Covid era, governments are intoxicated with the power to lock people in their homes and control their lives. There has been a rise in authoritarianism across the political spectrum, especially with some politicians and media blowhards yelling at people to get vaccinated.

This campaign has been counter-productive. Australia is not an anti-vaxxer nation. Just look at our high rates of child immunisation. Many people legitimately want more information about the Covid vaccines before making up their minds. They are not anti-vaxxers but vax-laters.

So far (as at August 2021) AstraZeneca has led to seven deaths in Australia, plus over 100 blood clots episodes and 30,000 reports of adverse reactions (official TGA data). People need to talk to their doctor about this and get the best advice in their individual health circumstances.

The doctor-patient relationship in Australia used to be sacred. Now governments and the media are trying to get in the middle of it, hectoring people with health instructions that should only ever come from doctors. This has raised suspicions about the process and if anything, has made people more hesitant.

Realistically, there are few good reasons to trust government. Just look at the disaster of the Sydney lockdown (which started with an unregulated airport limo driver) and the mishandling of the national vaccination roll-out. If governments knew what they were doing, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

Because the lockdown has failed, there is a push inside the NSW Government to give people no choice but to be vaccinated. Overseas, this is known as a Vaccine Passport, meaning that people can’t work, shop, visit cafes and restaurants or lead any part of a normal life without showing their vaccine records to strangers.

In France, the introduction of Vaccine Passports has created huge protest marches and riots. The police are going through shops and cafes checking people’s papers. Patients have even been turned away from hospitals. The French people are asking: Didn’t we defeat the Nazis to avoid this kind of thing?

Already the NSW Government has introduced a Public Health Order making construction workers in Western Sydney show their vaccination papers just to go to work. The only other way they are allowed onto building sites is if they have had a negative Covid test or have a medical certificate pointing to reasons what they can’t be vaccinated (such as allergies, past bad reactions etc).

Workers, sole traders and subcontractors are having to choose between their jobs and Covid vaccinations.

This may only be the start. A number of businesspeople have called for the compulsory vaccination of all workers and customers in their industry – that is, to make us like France.

One would have thought Australia’s trade unions would be fighting against this loss of basic workers’ rights, that no one should lose control of their health choices, handing them over to bosses. We are at risk of going back to the master/servant relationship of serfdom, where workers either do what their employees say in their personal healthcare or lose their job.

But the unions are weak. The ACTU has said it is happy to hand this power to State Health Orders and live with the consequences.

Many people are confused and scared of what is happening to Australia with mandatory vaccination.

NSW One Nation has taken up this fight on behalf of the people of our State. We are opposed to Vaccine Passports. We are looking at ways of introducing legislation in the NSW upper house to limit the power of government to impose mandatory workplace vaccinations.

We have also produced this document to help people understand their rights.

There are ways of defending yourself against mandatory vaccinations. People have rights under existing laws and they should use them if this suits their personal health circumstances and choices.

If State Health Orders do not apply to a workplace, yet employers want to make Covid vaccinations mandatory, the following rules apply. There are clear limitations on what employers can do.

Please read this document carefully and know your rights:

Work Health and Safety (WHS)

Existing WHS laws, Federal and State, set out clear processes companies need to follow in protecting the safety of their workers. Workplace safety is an important legal obligation. This includes minimising the risks of diseases, including Covid.

It does not follow, however, that mandatory vaccinations are required in every workplace. Nor can workers’ rights be wiped by employers sacking unvaccinated workers on-the-spot. Businesses wanting to impose vaccinations need to slow down and follow established processes of research and consultation under the WHS laws.
They need to consult their staff, talk to the unions (in unionised workplaces) and undertake Covid risk-assessment studies to see what might be necessary. Workers have a right to insist on these processes.

The current advice from Safe Work Australia (which has uniform legislation in place with the six States) reads: “It is unlikely that a requirement for workers to be vaccinated will be reasonably practicable … There is currently insufficient evidence about the impact of Covid-19 vaccines on transmission of the virus which means that a worker could get Covid-19 even if they are vaccinated.”

Safe Work Australia has also said, “Most employers will not need to make vaccinations mandatory to comply with the model WHS laws”. They have emphasised the importance of physical distancing, hygiene and other measures in the workplace. Workplace risk assessments should also consider masks and PPE as an alternative to compulsory vaccinations.

The evidence over the past 18 months is crucial: In NSW, there have been no confirmed Covid transmissions outdoors or on NSW public transport. It would be surprising, therefore, if gardeners, landscapers, tradies, construction workers and also hospitality staff working outdoors (such as picking up glasses in a beer-garden), plus public transport workers, would be deemed appropriate for employer-imposed vaccinations.

A specific provision in the NSW Work Health Safety Act is also relevant. Section 84 states that, “A worker may cease to refuse to carry out work if the worker has a reasonable concern that to carry out the work would expose the worker to a serious risk to the worker’s health or safety, emanating from an immediate or imminent exposure to a hazard.”

It would be reasonable to regard a directive from an employer to get vaccinated as part of one’s work. Therefore, if the worker has a medical certificate stating that a Covid vaccination would pose a serious risk to the worker’s physical or mental health, this could be sufficient grounds for ignoring the directive. Safe Work NSW is available to assist employees with further advice.

Industrial Relations Laws

If a worker is sacked unlawfully or unreasonably for not being Covid vaccinated, they can take unfair dismissal action at the Commonwealth’s Fair Work Commission. To clarify the rules governing such cases, on 12 August 2021 the Fair Work Ombudsman (FWO) issued a statement of ‘Workplace Rights and Obligations’.

This is a crucial document that gives some hope for workers’ rights. It rules out an employer free-for-all, where bosses can sack their unvaccinated staff at the drop of a hat. As the statement says, “The coronavirus pandemic doesn’t automatically make it reasonable for employers to direct employees to be vaccinated against the virus.”

The FWO has done a good job in giving workers hope that if they are sacked, an unfair dismissal case may be viable. Here are the main provisions protecting workers:

1. There needs to be a legal basis for forced workplace vaccinations. Employers cannot simply pursue this practice without foundations in the law. This means either a State Public Health order; a specific Covid vaccination clause in an employment agreement; or “It would be lawful and reasonable for an employer to give their employees a direction to be vaccinated, which is assessed on a case-by-case basis”. Inevitably, some of these cases will be unfair dismissal claims at the Fair Work Commission.

2. “For a direction to be lawful it needs to comply with any employment contract, award or agreement, and any Commonwealth, State or Territory law that applies (for example, an anti-discrimination law).”

3. The reasonableness of an employer directive will be determined by a range of factors: the amount of face-to-face worker/customer contact; whether the business provides an essential service; whether Covid is prevalent in the local community; vaccine availability and medical exemptions for staff.

4. If there has been no Covid in the community for some time, an employer directive for worker vaccination is “less likely to be reasonable”. If Covid is spreading locally and the business needs to stay open during a lockdown period, a vaccination directive is “more likely to be reasonable”.

5. Generally, staff working from home would not be required to be vaccinated, whereas workers in the frontline of Covid control would be – such as health, aged care, quarantine and border control workers.

6. All awards and enterprise agreements have consultation clauses with workers, so there’s an expectation this will cover any attempt by employers to introduce mandatory vaccines. The views of Health and Safety Representatives must be taken into account.

7. “Vaccination isn’t mandatory for all employees and many workplaces won’t be able to require their employees to be vaccinated.” Some workers will have legitimate reasons not to be vaccinated, such as a medical reason.

8. If an employee refuses to be vaccinated, as a first step the employer should ask for their reasons. If the employee has a valid reason (such as a medical certificate), alternatives to vaccination should be explored, such as alternative work arrangements.

9. Whether an employer can take disciplinary action depends on the circumstances and the legality of such action, as set out in awards and other employment agreements. Importantly, “Employers don’t otherwise have the power to suspend employees without pay unless an enterprise or other registered agreement, award or employment contract allows them to. Employees have various protections against being dismissed or treated adversely in their employment. Employers should make sure that they follow a fair process and have a valid reason for termination, or they may breach unfair dismissal or adverse action laws under the Fair Work Act.”

Anti-Discrimination Laws

Commonwealth and State anti-discrimination laws provide important protections for certain people from unfair treatment in the workplace. For instance, if a pregnant woman said she did not want the vaccination for valid medical reasons, an employer would most likely be in breach of these laws if he sacked her.

Another key protection relates to disability. This is broadly defined in discrimination law. For instance, Section 49A(d) of the NSW Act covers a “disability that a person will have in the future”. Therefore, if a worker has a medical certificate stating that the prospect of a Covid vaccination gives them chronic anxiety and depression, it would be unlawful for an employer to take disciplinary action against that employee (given the nature of their future disability).

Workers discriminated against in this fashion should lodge complaints with Anti-Discrimination NSW (which is a cost-free jurisdiction).

Privacy Laws

Vaccination records are highly sensitive private health information. They are protected under the Commonwealth’s 1988 Privacy Act. Thankfully, the Federal Government has decided not to share any vaccination information with NSW Minister Victor Dominello, thwarting his plan for a Vaccine Passport displayed on the Service NSW app.

The Office of the Australian Information Commissioner has issued instructions about the privacy rights of workers with regard to their vaccination records. She has said that employers can only collect this information in “very limited circumstances”.
Employees can say No to an employer wanting to permanently record the information, such as on a computer database. No worker should be threatened with the sack for failing to hand over his or her records.

In wanting to examine a vaccination record, employers must advise their staff as to how the information will be handled and what privacy safeguards apply. The Commissioner says that, “An employee’s vaccination status is considered sensitive health information under the Privacy Act and higher privacy protections apply.”

Consumer Protection

The ex-Turnbull MP and wealthy pub baron Craig Laundy has said that all workers and customers will need to be Covid vaccinated to enter one of his 20 hotels. This means that a family wanting to enjoy a meal in a beer-garden will need to have each of its children vaccinated, no matter how young.

The situation with customers is different to that of workers. Businesses can refuse entry to certain customers, but not in a way that breaches discrimination laws. Laundy will probably find that young families will take their patronage elsewhere. If he imposes an age exemption for children, this would likely breach anti-discrimination laws on the basis of age.

There is also the question of privacy laws. As a matter of principle, some fully vaccinated customers will refuse to show their private health records to strangers. Their rights under privacy will probably end up being contested in the courts. Laundy has announced his policy without thinking through the consequences of this complex, unformed area of law.

In other industries, the stakes will be higher. If supermarkets insist on fully vaccinated customers, this will raise the (implied) constitutional right for people to exist and survive in Australia – in this instance, being able to buy food. Court cases will inevitably follow.

One Nation Respects All Vaccination Choices

Respect is the key. NSW One Nation respects the vaccine choices of all people. We don’t yell at anyone in this debate, on either side. We know that people talk to their doctors and study the evidence and make the choice that best suits their health needs.
Within our party, people have made different choices and this is respected under the principles of informed consent. Our Federal Leader, Senator Pauline Hanson, has said publicly that she will remain unvaccinated while our two NSW MPs, Mark Latham and Rod Roberts, have been vaccinated.

Our biggest concern is for what the public is going through. It’s a horrible situation for someone to have to choose between their job and a medical procedure they don’t want.

Similarly, people should not be forced into vaccination simply to access food and the other basics of life. This is not the Australia we want or have ever contemplated: a nation more like China or North Korea in removing the informed consent of its citizens.

One Nation is fighting for government laws and processes that respect all people and their freedoms, whether as citizens, workers or consumers. We will never back down.

Disclaimer: This is not an official government or legal document. It has been prepared by the NSW One Nation research team as a guide to assist people in knowing the type of rights available to them during this complex Covid period. Care has been taken to provide the most reliable information available. But for anyone wanting to take matters further, please consult your lawyer and/or doctor for more detailed professional advice.

September 15, 2021 4:30 pm

Thanks, BBS. Yes, I am in Qld. I am also classified as a ‘front line’ worker & to top that, my employer is Qld Health. Yikes.

I will follow your initial advice though & see what happens. If it comes to the crunch, I have information which does not paint QH in a good light, in regards to the tolerance of a long-term pattern of bullying & predatorial behaviour, which involves several levels of management. If not for the extortionate price of legal representation, I would have made this public years ago.

Miss Anthropist
Miss Anthropist
September 15, 2021 5:49 pm

Give the bastards up anyway.
They want us to give everyone else up.
Give them a dose of their own medicine.

September 15, 2021 7:07 pm

Thanks, Miss Anthropist. While the odds are not great, I’ll be looking for any opportunity to roll in a (metaphorical) grenade.

September 15, 2021 7:18 pm

Apologies to myself for derailing my own thread. The first few paragraphs are somewhat rambling, but I thought it was interesting how psychological techniques used 70 years ago in a wartime situation are still being utilised now against a civilian population, albeit with adaptations. What shocks me the most, however, is the willingness of some not just to acquiesce to indirect coercion, but seek to stand beside the coercive authority & become a co-abuser.

September 15, 2021 7:53 pm

Jesus, I really don’t know how we all get out and away from the “new woke arseholes who somehow got voted in to listen to overpaid, underworked public service bludgers. I know they are bludgers, I used to be one, God forgive me.

Short of revolution I don’t see how we, who hopefully are conservative gain some of our old freedoms back. The more insidiously powerful the msm become and people like Mark Latham et al are censored by the msm and public lefties rise, the harder it’s gonna be.

Just review what happened to Trump, Abbot, Hanson , Jordan Peterson .The only things made public by the lefties and msm are negative and derogatory.

Progressive eh? Change for changes’ sake is worth nothing.

What was wrong with Australian society 25-60 years ago? Crims and cockheads are always gonna be there, but why go all stupid on pc crap and cancelling history.
Why the fuck do people support BLM ? Why not ALM?

Cmon man, 80 million in the states voted for someone who couldn’t get a job as a bumper up in a brothel.


Shy Ted
Shy Ted
September 15, 2021 8:04 pm

What Muddy said at 4.30. I got out. You could see what was coming and my discipline had been taken over and redirected by the dumbest academics you’re ever likely to meet. All qualifications, no experience. It had ceased to be about the patient years ago.

Bar Beach Swimmer
September 15, 2021 8:57 pm

September 15, 2021 at 4:30 pm

Muddy, I re-read the Latham tweet. (I’ve been a bit psychologically under-par for the last week or so, so it’s cheered me up no end!)

Reading it shows that I forgot something (probably most of what he said). Under the privacy stuff he said that the Federal Govt has disallowed the NSW govt’s request to upload the immunisation certificates automatically to the Services NSW App. This means that people will have to do it manually. This alone will undermine a fair bit of the discrimination against the unvaxxed. There’s a lot of stuff in there that hopefully will assist you.

btw, no problems about derailing your post – worth reading on many levels, discussion, included.
good luck.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 15, 2021 8:59 pm

Shy Tedsays:
September 15, 2021 at 8:04 pm
What Muddy said at 4.30. I got out. You could see what was coming and my discipline had been taken over and redirected by the dumbest academics you’re ever likely to meet. All qualifications, no experience. It had ceased to be about the patient years ago.

A slight correction, for accuracy: “All credentials, no ability or experience …”

September 15, 2021 9:13 pm

Mark M says:
September 15, 2021 at 12:10 pm

“Respect for the freedom and dignity of the individual … a ‘fair go’ for all that embraces: mutual respect; tolerance; compassion… ”
Ah, yes. Of course. (As modeled by our leaders).

“I undertake to conduct myself in accordance with these values of Australian society …”

  1. Good rant from the Rev: Glastonbury baby, left wing hypocrite rant

  2. I gave it up aged 80 after a not very long or difficult trip on an Icelandic pony. They have…

  3. Appalling to see my old Alma Mater brought down to such a low. Mark Scott was a disastrous apoointment.

Oh, you think that, do you? Care to put it on record?x