Open Thread – Mon 31 Jan 2022


Landscape with the Fall of Icarus, Pieter Bruegel the Elder, 1558

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Timothy Neilson
Timothy Neilson
February 4, 2022 11:21 pm

dover0beachsays:
February 4, 2022 at 10:58 pm
I notice you weren’t at all anxious to discuss the exercise of Papal infallibility by Pius XII in 1950.

Presumably you’d defend that to the death as absolute truth?

God, yes.

dover I don’t doubt for a second that God had power to do it if He wanted to. That is, it may be true. But as a subject matter for an exercise of supposed Papal infallibility it was idiotic.
As a question of fact it’s either true or false. I would have thought that the Catholic Church would have learned from the Galileo fiasco not to make dogmatic pronouncements about matters of pure fact not addressed and attested to in the Scriptures.
And if the dogma is meant to require people to believe it whether or not it’s true, that’s totally contrary to Christianity. Yes, we’re meant to live in part by faith, but that doesn’t mean that the Church should just make pronouncements on matters unattested in the Scriptures and then say there’s a moral obligation to believe it just because someone in 1950 wants you to.
Of all the things a Pope could have chosen as a subject matter for an exercise of supposed infallibility, that would have to be about the stupidest one that could have been selected.

Timothy Neilson
Timothy Neilson
February 4, 2022 11:25 pm

That’s okay Tim but my long personal experience is that Catholics spend virtually zero time on what protestants believe, whereas protestants seem to spend an inordinate amount of time critiquing Catholicism.

Take a look at this thread. Was it me or Dot who started the sniping? I regret having been sucked into it.

rosie
rosie
February 4, 2022 11:28 pm

We are each responsible for our own posts.
Also good old Galileo.
What’s next?
Crusades?

rosie
rosie
February 4, 2022 11:40 pm

I haven’t consumed a single glass of wine since I’ve arrived in Europe but I’m going to lash out and buy a half bottle today.
Or maybe one of 99c tetra packs at the supermarche.

Franx
Franx
February 4, 2022 11:41 pm

With Galileo, it was more the manner than the content.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
February 4, 2022 11:42 pm

not surprisingly after producing an extraordinary percentage of the world’s wine before 1962, the remaining Algieran vineyards mostly produce table grapes

Most interesting link, thank you.

rosie
rosie
February 4, 2022 11:45 pm

Exactly Franx
Little to do with science and much to do with rudeness.

areff
areff
February 4, 2022 11:50 pm

Sancho, spot on about conductors. Nasty on the trams, worse on the buses — especially if you were on the way to a private school and the connie was a lank-haired, malodorous labor-voting class warrior who really, really resented you.

The first time I ever heard the word ‘poofters’ was on a bus descending Studley Park Road into Collingwood — ‘youse poofters’ being the connie’s greeting to a couple of 10-year-olds.

jupes
jupes
February 4, 2022 11:54 pm

Born in the year of Custer’s Last Stand, came to Australia by sailing ship, and watched Neil Armstrong walk on the moon..

Lucky lady. She witnessed western civilization take rapid steps to its peak in 1969. Electricity, radio, tv, film, cars, planes and rockets all invented within her lifetime. The future would have seemed so full of potential.

But no. Didn’t quite happen that way.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
February 4, 2022 11:57 pm

Lucky lady. She witnessed western civilization take rapid steps to its peak in 1969

Pay that one, jupes.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
February 4, 2022 11:57 pm

Demographer Ed, on lifespans:

A fair bit past 95

They meant years, Ed. Not fahrenheit degrees. Keep her cool or the insects will get at her.

Rabz
February 5, 2022 12:02 am

New Gold Dream … 🙂

Gabor
Gabor
February 5, 2022 12:06 am

social media

Can only speak of FB, depends on what you want out of it.
I have family connections and lots of interesting building and hobby sites.
No banning on these, and I’m yet see anything posted that is political.

Plenty on the family site but LOL.

Miss Anthropist
Miss Anthropist
February 5, 2022 12:10 am

I am staying up to watch Father Ted to see if it gives me any great insight in to matters raised on here..

Miss Anthropist
Miss Anthropist
February 5, 2022 12:24 am

Zulu,
Cameron Highlanders (aka The Poison Dwarves) used to be armed in Church.
They were disbanded, not amalgamated.
Not saying the two were related.

John H.
John H.
February 5, 2022 12:28 am

Rabzsays:
February 4, 2022 at 10:33 pm
The benefits of longevity may be overestimated

Agreed, but is there a perfect age at which to bow out?

75?
80?
xx?

Two French doctors were at a party smoking and were chided for doing so. One replied that longevity is over rated. There may be something to that. In Aus men over 80 commit suicide at the highest rate of any demographic. We are living longer, and longer with disability, with pain, with failing sensory and cognitive faculties.
People wonder why I have gone back to the gym. They haven’t seen the data. Even a study released this week highlighted that to prevent musculoskeletal pain old coots must be at least once a week do some type of moderate to intense exercise. I read that yesterday but couldn’t think of a physiological reason until this morning. I hope to write that up on my blog.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
February 5, 2022 12:33 am

Two French doctors were at a party smoking and were chided for doing so. One replied that longevity is over rated. There may be something to that. In Aus men over 80 commit suicide at the highest rate of any demographic. We are living longer, and longer with disability, with pain, with failing sensory and cognitive faculties.
People wonder why I have gone back to the gym. They haven’t seen the data. Even a study released this week highlighted that to prevent musculoskeletal pain old coots must be at least once a week do some type of moderate to intense exercise. I read that yesterday but couldn’t think of a physiological reason until this morning. I hope to write that up on my blog.

Historically, we were not meant to live beyond 50-60 years of age as life was hard on the body and mind. Also we didn’t have remedies for many basic illnesses.

Life is worth living as long as you can find a purpose for your life.
Once you lose purpose, life becomes intolerable 🙁

Timothy Neilson
Timothy Neilson
February 5, 2022 12:48 am

There was another absolute cracker of longevity I saw.
On American television in 1956 a 96 year old man was interviewed.
He described how, as a 5 year old, he was taken to the theatre by an aunt and saw John Wilkes Booth shoot Abraham Lincoln.
It’s accessible on the internet.

Fat Tony
Fat Tony
February 5, 2022 12:52 am

Franx says:
February 4, 2022 at 11:41 pm
With Galileo, it was more the manner than the content.

Read a book many years ago (packed away somewhere) that stated Galileo was possibly the most abrasive prick who ever lived.

Most of his troubles were due to this fact and not the doctrine of the Church.

Dot
Dot
February 5, 2022 12:59 am

but that doesn’t mean that the Church should just make pronouncements on matters unattested in the Scriptures

This is the whole point I am making.

The Catholic Church does this the least and usually with good reason.

“The King of England is the Head of the Church”

“Communion is poison”

“It is totally legitimate to give a sermon like a Tony Robbins seminar”

“We can can change what is in the Bible, we need those dinner parties”

John H.
John H.
February 5, 2022 1:09 am

Timothy Neilsonsays:
February 5, 2022 at 12:48 am
There was another absolute cracker of longevity I saw.
On American television in 1956 a 96 year old man was interviewed.
He described how, as a 5 year old, he was taken to the theatre by an aunt and saw John Wilkes Booth shoot Abraham Lincoln.
It’s accessible on the internet.

I hope this is clear enough. Honestly I tried to make it so!

OK I’ll break the bad news now. Longevity has a very pronounced genetic component. There is even a biological clock(Horvath’s clock) that can measure our biological age with reasonable accuracy by the rate of DNA methylation(epigenetics). Methylation is the latest you beaut craze in genetics. Methyl groups attach to specific portions of the DNA changing the rate of gene expression. A few weeks ago I read a study which demonstrated that demethylating T cells DNA could be very important in enhancing tumour destruction.

I mentioned upthread I’m back at the gym … . Another news item from this week I want to follow up
Late-life exercise shows rejuvenating effects on cellular level

When the mice were studied after two months of progressive weighted wheel running, it was determined that they were the epigenetic age of mice eight weeks younger than sedentary mice of the same age—24 months. Murach noted that while the specific strain of mice and their housing conditions can impact lifespans, “historically, they start dropping off after 24 months at a significant rate.” Needless to say, when your lifespan is measured in months, an extra eight weeks—roughly 10 percent of that lifespan—is a noteworthy gain.

The good news. It is only since 2000 that research into longevity has been a serious undertaking. We’ve learned a great deal. So while to date longevity is very much genetically driven there is no reason to think that will always be the case. The basics are obvious but there are other possibilities like NMN, fasting, restricted eating time, and add your favourite remedy here XXXX.

John H.
John H.
February 5, 2022 1:22 am

Fat Tonysays:
February 5, 2022 at 12:52 am
Franx says:
February 4, 2022 at 11:41 pm
With Galileo, it was more the manner than the content.

Read a book many years ago (packed away somewhere) that stated Galileo was possibly the most abrasive prick who ever lived.

Most of his troubles were due to this fact and not the doctrine of the Church.

Ya really think he was justified in being threatened because he was abrasive? I didn’t realise the Catholic Church was so woke back then.

Fat Tony
Fat Tony
February 5, 2022 1:29 am

John H.says:
February 5, 2022 at 1:22 am
Ya really think he was justified in being threatened because he was abrasive? I didn’t realise the Catholic Church was so woke back then.

Dunno – I’m not that old. The author made the point that he was a rather abrasive fellow who made pronouncements but couldn’t back them up. The Church authorities asked him to give some proof of what he was claiming and his reponse was aloing the lines of Fuck you.

Unforrtunately, the book in question is packed away with about 5 cartons of other books – a legacy of moving around the last few years for work.

Fat Tony
Fat Tony
February 5, 2022 1:30 am

Guess I’m being a bit of a looser tonight – I didn’t poof reed that last post to wel

Timothy Neilson
Timothy Neilson
February 5, 2022 1:51 am

Dotsays:
February 5, 2022 at 12:59 am
but that doesn’t mean that the Church should just make pronouncements on matters unattested in the Scriptures

This is the whole point I am making.

The Catholic Church does this the least and usually with good reason.

“The King of England is the Head of the Church”

“Communion is poison”

“It is totally legitimate to give a sermon like a Tony Robbins seminar”

“We can can change what is in the Bible, we need those dinner parties”

The first is Anglican doctrine, admittedly. I won’t try to defend it.

The other three are just your febrile masturbatory delusions.

JC
JC
February 5, 2022 3:09 am

I’ve always marvelled at that kind of consequence of longevity.

CL reported that the US formally closed down the Civil War pension system only last year with the death of the last person entitled to the pension. It was the daughter of a Civil War soldier who was conceived much later in his life.

sfw
sfw
February 5, 2022 7:02 am

High summer in NE Vic and at 7am it’s 5.5 degrees.

Eyrie
Eyrie
February 5, 2022 8:15 am

The benefits of longevity may be overestimated.

There’s not much peer group pressure.

Eyrie
Eyrie
February 5, 2022 8:16 am

Maybe Galileo was abrasive because he was sick of being surrounded by stupid people.

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