New Catallaxy

EVs RIP

Look out for cheap second hand EVs

From Rafe

You were warned, look at Briefing Note 21.11

The list of problems is so long that you need to read the note to appreciate them. Consider the social injustice of subsidies for well-off people who can afford evs, the human rights of workers in the supply chain, the danger of fast-moving and soundless missiles on the road, the fire hazard, the volume of minerals and mining required, the extra demand for power (which will be more expensive, thus undermining the economy of driving evs), the need to drive almost 100,000km to balance the extra CO2 generated in building the ev, the charging infrastructure required, the limited life of the battery compared with conventional vehicles, the limitations of evs during emergencies – fires, floods, power blackouts.

The complete list of notes with summaries to for quick consumption.

Peter Smith wrote a piece to indicate that the target for EV penetration is wildly unrealistic due to the shortage of electricians and the complications that arise as soon as you start connecting new charging statins to the power supply.

Rafe Champion

26 responses to “EVs RIP”

  1. The Beer Whisperer Avatar
    The Beer Whisperer

    I weep for the doctors virtue signalling their way around expensive suburbs.

    Nah, just kidding.

    8
  2. pete of perth Avatar
    pete of perth

    Yesterday, I was in Freo at The Esplanade Hotel for lunch. Outside 2 teslas charging next to the outdoor dining area. Plenty of exits in case one went exothermic though the Hotel would probably suffer some damage. Charging is “free” though you still have to pay for parking. https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/freos-esplanade-ev-charging-stations-ready-goEV stations.

    2
  3. pete of perth Avatar
    pete of perth

    Plenty in underground shopping carparks. One flash and you’re ash comes to mind.

    7
  4. 2dogs Avatar
    2dogs

    EVs do seem to be holding their value quite well in the used car market.

    This is not usually the case with problematic vehicles.

    Anyone know what is happening on this point?

    3
  5. Fair Shake Avatar
    Fair Shake

    EV technicians. You do not need to be an electrician to work on EVs. OEMs are running specific technician training for high voltage vehicles. Techs are keen to be trained in this area at it is seen as the future for their careers. Most work is unplug remove old part, install and plug in new part. I am still astonished at the lack of moving parts in EVs and how small the motors are.

    Do I want one? No thanks, but plenty do. …well heres hoping they do else next year dealers will have a lot of EV stock hanging around.

    A bigger question is will the electricity grid hold with so many vehicles being plugged in?

    8
  6. Enyaw Avatar
    Enyaw

    Fair Shake, I read recently , Ford Motor co has 90 Billion worth of EV’s in storage yards and dealerships , waiting for buyers ? , if true, there must be some smart people left in this bullshit World we are existibg in .

    12
  7. Enyaw Avatar
    Enyaw

    2dogs, I do know what happens when a particular vehicle gets the LEMON labe.l Re EV’s , the Fad is still currently in vogue .

    2
  8. Enyaw Avatar
    Enyaw

    correction ..existing

  9. flyingduk Avatar
    flyingduk

    They know it wont work, that’s the point, as Neil Oliver said ‘its not about going green, its about going without…’

    15
  10. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    EVs do seem to be holding their value quite well in the used car market.

    Just wait until they’re uninsurable and see what they’re suddenly worth(less).

    7
    1
  11. Gabor Avatar
    Gabor

    Fair Shake
    Nov 16, 2023 6:06 AM

    Do I want one? No thanks, but plenty do. …well heres hoping they do else next year dealers will have a lot of EV stock hanging around.

    A bigger question is will the electricity grid hold with so many vehicles being plugged in?

    My sentiments exactly, I’m not against them, if you want one, get it.
    The problem is the elephant in the room than no one seems to mention or care about, which is where is the electricity is going to come from?

    All other problems can be fixed in time with new battery technology I suppose?

    4
  12. another ian Avatar
    another ian

    And then GM –

    “HUGE NEWS! GM CEO Just SHUT DOWN EV Production!”

    https://t.co/L1RW4gehl8

    https://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2023/11/14/we-dont-need-no-flaming-sparky-cars-139/

    6
  13. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    Not a good idea to launch your tinny using your expensive Tesla.

    Watch: Tesla Model X burns underwater after sliding down boat ramp (13 Nov)

    Although in this case he was trying to launch his jet ski, which figures. Interesting that a Tesla can burn underwater. Which says a great deal about the difficulty of putting EV fires out.

    7
  14. Entropy Avatar
    Entropy

    Second hand EVs are probably scarce, as the bulk of EVs currently on the road would still be under lease, so supply/demand. And I expect will just be swapped with Tesla at the end of the lease, and Tesla will control second hand availability, because it can. The lease deals are pretty amazing too, as they are subsidised and also given tax breaks.

    It is fun to rail on about their practicality, but current users are city drivers, almost never drive long distance, and they are nice to drive. Their other car of course, being a Mercedes e class or a prado if slumming it. If they do do a long trip, the owner will wax lyrical about how good it is to have a long lunch and a then wander about while it recharges.

    And it doesn’t matter. They are legislated to be all that is allowed to be sold within a decade. But it pays to be late adopters I reckon. A Chinese firm has a lithium battery that is claimed to recharge in 10 mins (no risk there kiddies), or more safely Toyota reckons it has a solid state battery that can charge it n ten minutes, which should be in cars about 2028 or so. Toyota seems to be doing it right, hybrids first then BEV.

    3
  15. New Chum Avatar
    New Chum

    There would be companies researching better battery performance and Altech Batteries is one of those companies. I have no financial interest in this company.
    Search ATC at https://www.marketindex.com.au/ scroll down to Announcements.

  16. Ceres Avatar
    Ceres

    I never knowingly park next to one even in an open air shopping centre car park let alone an underground one. Moved the other day, as one came and parked next to me.

    4
  17. Rohan Avatar
    Rohan

    According to my mechanic, many car dealers are now refusing to take EV’s as a trade in. Especially if it’s a Tesla. They’re difficult to move, possibly as a result of Tesla’s software licensing, which is user based and can’t be transferred via the sale. If he’s right, then I’m not sure why they’re holding their value.

    5
  18. mem Avatar
    mem

    There have already been at least two major ship disasters involving large container ships traced to EV’s. The shipping and insurance costs must now be affecting costs. This is one of the ones I know about. shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxp62LfYVb4hip The interview with the fire safety guy is salutary.

    2
  19. Kingsley Avatar
    Kingsley

    The EV market seems to be crashing in the rest of the Western World. Seems to be a recognition now that all the poseurs have bought a Tesla and now they have to try and flog them to Mums and Dads and they just aren’t interested, given price and all the issues others have mentioned. I was of view that EVs would ultimately win out but now I think they may be some thing bigger than a niche market but not much more. I even wonder in Australia if we might end up with no EVs if they burn down even one more Car Carrier ship and the insurance companies refuse to insure or charge prohibitive premiums. Aikido Toyoda is looking like a very smart man.

    5
  20. mem Avatar
    mem

    The interview with the fire safety guy is salutary.

    I typed and meant salutory. There is a difference and salutory was what was meant. But apparently not recognized on line. Grrr..

  21. HT Avatar
    HT

    I recently bought a new “city” car, expecting delivery in a few weeks time, in fact. I went through the whole rigour of the purchase like I once did when I was employed to buy expensive stuff for my then employer, things like required capability, through life costs, trade-off study’s etc. Only a committed Green idealist/evangelist could get past even the first pass of a rational analysis and conclude that an EV represented either value for money, was dependable for anything other a few hundred kilometres between charges (rules out Mrs HT and I even driving to and from the big-smoke for a shopping trip without significant risk of being stranded), or that even purchasing an EV is an environmentally friendly buy. Not. Even. Close. Long story short, pay two to three times as much for 1/3 the life expectancy and with significant capability limitations.
    On any rational accounting, EV’s and the supporting infrastructure are at least a generation away from making any sense (If they ever do, car manufacturers seem to be crab-walking away from making EV’s).

    6
  22. Damon Avatar
    Damon

    “All other problems can be fixed in time with new battery technology I suppose?”

    Another car salesman ‘don’t worry. Someone will find oil somewhere’.

    4
  23. The Beer whisperer Avatar
    The Beer whisperer

    They know it wont work, that’s the point, as Neil Oliver said ‘its not about going green, its about going without…’

    And if it doesn’t stop working, a remote flick of the switch can solve that.

    3
  24. Entropy Avatar
    Entropy

    EV sales certainly aren’t crashing in my suburb. Teslas have replaced BMW 3 series as the second car. Both neighbours have a Tesla 3. It is a corporate manager/SES suburb.

  25. HT Avatar
    HT

    Entropy
    Nov 17, 2023 1:11 PM
    EV sales certainly aren’t crashing in my suburb. Teslas have replaced BMW 3 series as the second car. Both neighbours have a Tesla 3. It is a corporate manager/SES suburb.

    Know the type, very, very well. They aren’t using their own money, simply topping off their “package”. They don’t even have to deal with the depreciation/resale values.

  26. Youngster Avatar
    Youngster

    I’ve not seen much research or forecasts about the long-term impact of EVs on the used car market. Older ICE cars have been the transport of choice for young drivers and low income families. They might not look pretty, but if you can do some basic mechanical work yourself, you can keep a Corolla or Commodore going for a long time for little cost using hand tools and parts from the wreckers. That’s not the case for EV’s. Eventually the battery has almost no range, and thus the car is useless. It cannot be tweaked a bit to keep it going for a while longer. Battery health is almost impossible to guarantee too. Plus the insurance is insane, because almost accident turns an EV into a write-off.

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