47 thoughts on “Meme of the Day #13”

  1. The pot banging episodes in Argentina also worked for a while, but the Left just pulled their head in for a year or two and the public forgot. Then they resumed their agenda when next they got power.

    In Canada 60% of the vote last year went to leftist parties despite the horrible job Trudeau has been doing. Canada is following Argentina down the plughole.

    .


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  2. I have to admit, the more the Left demonises Putin, the more I like him. Seriously, is he worse than what we have here? Is he worse than what the US, UK and EU have?


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  3. bemusedsays:
    February 6, 2022 at 9:39 am
    I have to admit, the more the Left demonises Putin, the more I like him. Seriously, is he worse than what we have here? Is he worse than what the US, UK and EU have?

    there’s something to be said for a benevolent dictator type. They may be funnelling wealth to a choice few oligarchs, but at least they’re generating wealth, too.

    The left does nothing but destroy.


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  4. there’s something to be said for a benevolent dictator type. They may be funnelling wealth to a choice few oligarchs, but at least they’re generating wealth, too.

    Not much different to funnelling wealth to Green oligarchs, as do our benevolent dictator types.

    The left does nothing but destroy.

    Ours, including the Libs, have been good at doing that for the last two years at the very least.


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  5. Is he worse than what the US, UK and EU have?

    The EU and Russia is just 1938 in reverse. We’ve just had Sudetenland/Donbass-Crimea and the rest of Czechoslovakia/Ukraine is up next. The difference is both blocs now have nukes, which makes things slower and trickier.


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  6. The EU and Russia is just 1938 in reverse.

    My understanding is that Russia wanted to avoid getting involved in the European conflict, but Germany had other ideas. In all of those intervening years, Russia hasn’t really appeared to have had any expansionist intentions, as far as I’m aware, just concerns about EU and US intentions.

    The EU is rapidly becoming a basket case with increasing numbers of ‘refugees’ being foisted on all and sundry EU countries, with some exceptions. Then there is the increasing loss of ‘values’ foisted on all and sundry by the woke Left who seems to rule most of the EU. Then there is the ongoing climate ’emergency’ that if it continues, may destabilise the EU at some point.

    These are all likely to be of concern for Putin who is against all of this. Putin has often voiced his concerns about the decline in western values and I suspect that he is increasingly concerned about the future.


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  7. No, but he may be smarter.

    I would say that he’s a lot smarter, especially as there’s no competition in the west. Hungary being at least one exception (I consider Hungary to be of the west), whose prime minister is also hated by the Left. There seems to be a pattern here.


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  8. My understanding is that Russia wanted to avoid getting involved in the European conflict, but Germany had other ideas.

    @bemused

    I don’t think so. Stalin saw an opportunity to annex a substantial portion of Poland at essentially no cost. Stalin was absolutely gobsmacked when Hitler turned his back on their non-aggression pact in 1941.


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  9. Angus Black says:
    February 6, 2022 at 2:41 pm

    That was reason for the pact, so that Russia didn’t get involved in the European war. That said, I don’t think Putin is a latter day Stalin.


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  10. bemused says:
    February 6, 2022 at 11:54 am

    My understanding is that Russia wanted to avoid getting involved in the European conflict, but Germany had other idea

    You might want to ask the Poles about that….

    The reality is that Maxist ideology is inevitably authoritarian, inevitably bloody – because what do you do when you define anyone who doesn’t comply as an enemy of the people – and views its domination of the world as a historic inevitability.

    Stalin was not ready for WW2, partly because he had recently engaged in a very bloody purge of his own army, but he shows every sign of regarding conflict with Germany as inevitable, as Hitler did conflict with Russia.

    It is blind to ignore the degree to which they – and the people that they lead – regarded Great Power rivalry and military conflict as normal.

    The same error is often made by Australian historians who show a marked lack of understanding regarding Australia’s interests in the “European” First and Second World Wars. Australia was acutely aware that it existed in a world of militarily-competitive Empires. We built fortifications at the entrances to Sydney Harbour and Port Philip because of a succession of felt threats from the French and Russians. In 1914 the Germans had possessions in the Pacific and part of their pre-war planning was to interdict our lines of trade and support with Britain. We were not outside of world events.


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  11. As far as Putin is concerned…. he acts very much like someone who would like to lead an Empire. He appears to be pragmatically ruthless, while aware of the limitations of his nation and political system. So smart and without the paranoia that leads so many dictators into error.

    Keep in mind that Russia’s GDP is not in the top ten, which puts a severe limit on Russia’s ability to project power.

    It’s also interesting to reflect that Australia’s GDP is not far behind that of Russia. We “could” be far better positioned to defend ourselves if we spent less of our resources on relative luxuries.


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  12. You might want to ask the Poles about that….

    Again, Putin is not Stalin and there are now two confirmations that, at the time, Russia did not want to get into the European conflict. And what happened post-WWII is not to be confused with what is happening now.

    As an aside, after WWII, Poland was given a ‘large’ portion of Germany. Also, following the collapse of the Soviet union, the countries that were annexed post-WWII now have independence.


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  13. As far as the EU and US are concerned…. they act very much like ones who would like to lead an Empire. They appear to be pragmatically ruthless, while aware of the limitations of their nation and political system. Not so smart and with the paranoia that leads so many dictators into error.

    Fixed!


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  14. Malbec is not native to Argentina. It is French and is even now still used for blending in some Left Bank Bordeaux.

    The rules about what grapes they can use in French wines are very precisely defined and enforced. And centuries old.

    BUT Malbec is well and truly AT home in Sth America with big jammy flavours that go well with barbecued and roast meat.

    So I suppose you can say that you are rice, and Argentina is home of Malbec


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  15. Fixed

    Only in the sense of “match-fixing” and “race-fixing”.

    Nothing honest about it.

    If you cannot honestly discuss WW2, what else will you misrepresent?

    Again, Putin is not Stalin

    Well this, obviously. That claim is not being made. Strawman.

    there are now two confirmations that, at the time, Russia did not want to get into the European conflict.

    …..and this. Just on their own terms. And if you do not count the invasion of Poland as “the European War”, despite the fact that the invasion of Poland was the trigger for declaration of War by Britain and France.

    As an aside, after WWII, Poland was given a ‘large’ portion of Germany.

    As both Poland and East-Germany were occupied states, reduced to vassalage under the Soviet Empire – so benign, those Soviets – it’s hardly a beneficence. That’s ignoring the historical reality that the territory in question was disputed – a dispute going back to a another period when Poland was occupied by the Russians and Germans.

    It seems to have been a bit of a habit.
    Not to mention the Russian invasion of Poland in 1919-21.

    Nice, easygoing neighbours, those Russians. Now they have a Leader who is on record as desiring to restore Russian “Greatness”. The history of Russian greatness would make anyone in that area, nervous.


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  16. In World War II Russia hoped to gain from the western concept.

    First they made a deal with Germany to conquer Poland, invading from the Soviet side after the Germans invaded from theirs. In return they received some Polish territory and immediately went about liquidating any potential threats, in good Soviet style.

    If there was one thing Hitler was afraid of, it was a war on two fronts. A danger seared into his brain after Germany’s difficulty in the First World War.

    How did this obvious instead told Hitler that they would not be joining with him then he would likely have been less adventurous in the West.

    I suspect the ideology was that Germany and the western nations would beat each other to a pulp, and then the Soviets could exert their influence over those now weakened nations. Certainly Germany paid a price for opening up a second front against the Russians when he was thwarted at the English Channel.

    And we saw this salvage strategy later when the Russians were driving the Germans back in Poland, when the emboldened citizens of Warsaw rows up against the Germans, expecting the Soviets to come in and help them. But the Soviets did no such thing. They sat outside the city and waited for the two sides to do as much damage to each other as possible.


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  17. Petros says:
    February 6, 2022 at 3:27 pm
    PeterW there are also the cannons at Battery Point in Hobart and one on Thursday Island to help fight off the Russians over a hundred years ago

    Fair point.

    I’m a little focused on the mainland, partly because Grandfather was stationed at Ft Queenscliff at the beginning of both World Wars. As you no doubt know, the first hostile shots fired by British and Commonwealth forces, came from a gun in the Port Philip defenses. I believe they were classified as the most heavily-defended harbours in the Souther Hemisphere at the time.


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  18. @PeterW says:
    February 6, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    You appear hell bent on portraying Putin as some sort of evil entity, the sins of the father and all that. All I am suggesting is that Putin is perhaps not the evil genius that the west portrays. Putin appears more patriotic than any current western leader.

    At this point in time, given the lying that has been going on regarding COVID, I would rather trust Putin than any other politician. And given how little world wide conflict has occurred during the Trump era, how much of this confected panic is brought about by the US and EU shills of the gun runners?

    I may be very wrong, but often my instincts prove to be correct. That is why, for example, I rejected entreaties to get ‘vaccinated’, even though I am supposedly in the ‘at risk group’.


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  19. Stalin was absolutely gobsmacked when Hitler turned his back on their non-aggression pact in 1941.

    Well, that’s sorta true, since the Red Army was poised to launch a surprise attack on Germany from the new border.
    Richard Sorge in Tokyo had got a heads up and warned the Soviets that an attack was imminent, but Stalin dismissed the warning as misinformation.


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  20. ML…

    I think the seeming contradiction in Hitler’s opening of the Eastern Front can be seen in mutual paranoia and timing.

    There is good reason to believe that both Hitler and Stalin regarded war as inevitable. Hitler was on record as claiming “living room” for Germany, regarding the additional territory and resources as necessary for both supporting Germany as a major military and economic power, and creating a deep defensible territory between German heartland and what he viewed as an aggressive Russian power. Territory equalled security to Germans who saw themselves as “surrounded”.
    Stalin simply was not ready for War, and knew it. The Red Army got a very bloody nose in its previous invasion of Poland , had been through a major purge and had not finished rebuilding. Its weaknesses were made obvious on their invasion of Finland.
    The Molotov-Ribbentrop plan is best seen on both sides as a cynical agreement to put off hostilities while each party sought advantage elsewhere. It was anything but a commitment to long-term peace.

    Post-war examination of Hitler’s documents appears to show that his Grand Strategy was to win on the Western Front before engaging on the Eastern Front, thereby avoiding the two-front war. Having defeated both France and Russia, the further plan was to use the resources of a united Europe to create a navy capable of challenging the combined US and Royal Navies, in order to cement Germany as a global power, not just a continental power.

    Hitler’s gamble was that he could win consecutive campaigns before the Red Army could build to full strength. To what extent the refusal of Britain to accept peace, and the American refusal to give up their trade with Britain and the attacks on American ships and personnel that a blockade of Britain rendered necessary, is debatable, but it is certain that the ongoing conflict in the West reduced the resources that he could allocate to the Eastern Front.

    “No plan survives… etc”


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  21. bemused says:
    February 6, 2022 at 4:30 pm

    You appear hell bent on portraying Putin as some sort of evil entity, the sins of the father and all that. All I am suggesting is that Putin is perhaps not the evil genius that the west portrays.

    And my response is that he is neither another Stalin, nor is he being represented as such

    I seriously despise most western governments at the moment, and their attitude alone is enough to make me refuse the jab as a matter of principle. We do not do good by negotiating with bullies.

    However that does not justify viewing other governments with rose-coloured glasses, merely because they are in conflict with our own.

    The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy, no more Putin is no friend of freedom.


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  22. This is an excellent read ‘Operation Barbarossa And Germany’s Failure In The Soviet Union‘. It goes a long way to explain why a country that was almost brought to its knees, has no intention of seeing a repeat.

    I was born in Finland, served in the Finnish Army back in 1974 and have family that lives close to the Russian border. My time in the Finnish Army was all about defending the country from a Russian invasion, as that was still the perceived threat. That is not the case today, but Finland is still prepared.


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  23. Stalin was absolutely gobsmacked when Hitler turned his back on their non-aggression pact in 1941.

    Not even slightly, no matter how much propaganda they issued in support of that claim.

    Everyone who worked with Stalin knew that he was paranoid to extremes. That was the reason for the purges. To claim that he trusted the homicidal German maniac to keep his word for any other reason than convenience, is absurd.


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  24. Another pattern that emerged about this time, was the failure of “Blitzkrieg “ against well dug-troops and commanders who refused to be flustered.

    The first sign of this was at Tobruk, El Alamein and then Stalingrad and Leningrad. Say what we will about Stalin’s ruthlessness – it cost the Red Army massive casualties – but it also forced the Wehrmacht to grind through armies that might otherwise have surrendered at far less cost to the Germans.


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  25. Thanks Peter,

    It is my understanding that Stalin was surprised when the Germans attacked because it was before he expected them to.

    But he could have bottled the Germans up by making an agreement with the Western powers – if Hitler attacked in either direction, those of his back would come to their aid by attacking the German rear.

    It would have defended Europe against the Germans, and it defended Russia as well.

    But that was not Stalin’s goal.


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  26. ML….

    I assume you mean an agreement with France and Britain, as an alternative to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?

    I suspect that you are right and that Stalin hoped that the Germans would exhaust themselves fighting in the West, allowing him to invade from the East.

    He was a nasty piece of work.


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  27. Bemused 4.54pm. Finland ya says?

    Here’s an oldie just for you…Leonid Brezhnev calls Prez Kekkonen in late 1981 and says “Urho, our two nations are now so intertwined that we believe there is no longer any need for a border between the USSR and Finland. We will also do away with having two govts, and amalgamate them forever”

    Urho gets very angry at the suggestion: “WTF? I know there are problems with Ronny and Margaret but I’m already in my 80s, and have no intention of running such a big country on my own just to get YOU off the hook!”


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  28. Here’s an oldie just for you…

    I could well imagine something like that happening. The reparations that the Finns had to pay the USSR after WWII was enough to cement a very long-term dislike of the Kremlin. On the other hand, it didn’t stop the Finns from visiting and bringing back cheap vodka.


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  29. “You appear hell bent on portraying Putin as some sort of evil entity, the sins of the father and all that. All I am suggesting is that Putin is perhaps not the evil genius that the west portrays.”

    Genius, yes; evil, no.
    He did the Russian version of Trump’s MAGA. Bumped the economy upwards, so the voters like him – even though they know he and his friends are much greater beneficiaries of his policies than they are, they are still seeing gains. And he is also unashamedly Christian – Russian Orthodox Church survived the USSR despite it’s best efforts, and Putin has seen what pandering to the eeslamics results in.
    And because Trump saw Russia as a competitor not an enemy, and China as an enemy not a competitor, the left simply MUST see the exact opposite. So “Russia,Russia,Russia!” and President Brandon distributing a couple of hundred million Chinese masks to the US population.


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  30. “You appear hell bent on portraying Putin as some sort of evil entity, the sins of the father and all that.

    Bemused.
    Just a thought, but wasn’t it you who attempted to bring Pre-Putin Russian history into the argument? The discussion of WW2 arose directly from your premise that things that happened before he was born, should somehow reflect to his credit.

    And he is also unashamedly Christian

    I question that. “Pretty is as pretty does” and all that. Christ himself noted that there would be many shouting “Lord, Lord”, but who did not obey His commands. Christianity is not a club that you join, but a life that you live

    I wonder how many of you would apply the same standards to American (and Australian) politicians who also claim to be Christian , and yet you judge them according to their actions.

    The choice is not between “Good Christian Leader” and “Evil Super-Villian. That is a False Dichotomy, and a clear logical fallacy…. whether applied to Vlad Putin or Joe Biden. Mediocre, at best, the pair of them.


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  31. @PeterW says:
    February 7, 2022 at 9:14 pm

    I did, because you seem to imply, as I alluded, that the sins of the father (Stalin) are the sins of the son (Putin). Given my background, I think I have a much better understanding of the tensions between the old USSR and the new Russia, its neighbouring countries and how their populations feel.

    The US and the media lap dogs make Putin out to be some sort of monster, but is he truly worse than the Democrats? How many people have the Democrats killed (directly or indirectly) vs Putin? Who hates and who loves their country? Who is and who isn’t selling out their country and their people? Who is actually enslaving their people?


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