Six people died at Wieambilla. Not two. Not three. But six. Almost lost in the public clamour about the deaths of the police officers, is the death of the neighbour, already attributed to the now-dead occupants of the property. Unlike the police officers, he was not doing his job, he was not following the orders of his boss. He was being a neighbour.
The three occupants of the property have been tried and convicted of three murders in the court of mass media mediated opinion. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the only trial they will get. The Queensland Police Special Emergency Response Team (SERT) has ensured that. No-one in public discourse has offered a word of dismay or regret for the deaths of these three people. Let me do so. I am dismayed that these people are not in custody. I regret that they shall not be put on trial so that allegations against them can be tested. There will be a coronial inquest, but that is no substitute for a trial in which the interests of the defendants are forcefully put. Who will cross-examine the police?
This leads to the burning question that no-one is asking: why are these people not in custody? A police recruiting document for SERT included the following elements of the job description:
Siege incidents
SERT has the capability to provide specialist tactical skills for the containment, evacuation, negotiation and resolution of siege incidents.
Armed offender intervention
SERT has the capability to provide specialist tactical skills for the detention, apprehension and arrest of armed offenders.
High Risk Warrant Execution
SERT can perform entry to premises in high risk situations for the purpose of detaining people…
SERT possesses a Lenco Bearcat (one of which we have seen in action against demonstrators in Melbourne recently), a Lenco Bombcat, for the Explosives Ordnance Response Team, and a OzBot Titan robot, “that can remotely, breach doors and windows, assist in the rescue of hostages, deliver and retrieve items in dangerous locations, and improve situational awareness with its digital camera.”
There was a 28km2 exclusion zone around the property. SERT was present, as were a large number of other Queensland police officers, and the Police helicopter. It seems that conditions were conducive to the resolution of the siege without further loss of life. Yet all three of the alleged offenders are dead, and, if the broadcast sound of the final volley of shots is to be relied upon, they all died within a few seconds.
As far as I am aware, Queensland Police have not even attempted to explain why a peaceful resolution was not possible. On the face of it, a decision was taken to kill these three people, and that decision was carried out by SERT. If such a decision were made, who made it? To any reflective observer, let alone one with a commitment to the rule of law, this possibility is profoundly disturbing. If, and I stress if, a militarised, heavily armed Police force decides that it can take the law into its own hands, a great leap forward has been achieved in the progressive totalitarianism to which we are being subjected.
Note the irony here. At least one of the three had expressed just such concerns. If it turns out that SERT has obliged with a demonstration of their validity, Heaven help us.
I share your concerns Peter. As we all know, ‘the victors write history’ and the police do seem to have acted very swiftly to ensure there was no alternative narrative – indeed, the media was pretty fast to roll out the police/government line (conspiracy theorists, antivaxxers, gun owners etc etc etc). What happened to the old procedure whereby you cut off the power and the water and waited it out, only ‘going in’ once the ‘offenders’ started executing the hostages? (remember, in this case there were no ‘bystanders’ or police left alive on scene by the time the SERT went in.
And why the desire to buy the property ‘to turn it into a refuge for police’? Who seriously believes police would want to spend time there as a sanctuary? They raze schools after mass shootings, not turn them into shrines for the surviving parents.
That is a bizarre decision showing the complete disconnect of the police leadership from humanity. However, the occupants of the property lost my sympathy when they killed their neighbour.
It is somewhat bizarre; however, I believe this proposal came from the police union head, not QPOL. Likely a knee jerk reaction provoked by grief and one that will be quietly dropped after reconsideration. A site where police were murdered is unlikely to prove therapeutic to officers suffering from PTSD.
Thank you for volunteering to be the first through the door/window after it had been breached.
Off grid power & water – nothing to cut off.
That is the UNION leadership , not the police.
The scrotes wanted to “suicide by cop” , they got their wish.
Interesting idea.
In light of people discussing capital punishment yesterday, its possible that we outsourced an execution by setting in place the procedures and personnel to make it happen.
On the one hand the meth-trains may have made it impossible to be captured by a “run at them shooting” & “blaze of glory” ending.
On the other shutting them up and starving/ wearing them down and taking them alive may have been an option deliberately discarded.
I’ve no doubt the ‘taking them alive’ option would have been utterly discarded.
I feel no dismay.
If it ‘stays in Wieambilla’, those left to grieve are spared.
There is no evidence yet that the Trains killed the neighbour. Bullet analysis needed.
The property is valuable as QGC want to run a pipeline over it. $$$ to be made.
Cold blooded murder. The inquest fix is in as we confer.
All 3 were unvaxxed. Maybe they were Convid deaths.
Katrina Carroll, Commissioner. Tracy Linford, Deputy Commissioner. Where did the last bloke go? Oh!
Media. If you’re not with us there’s no more advertising $$ from gummint and that’s an awful lot of money considering every ad is gummint or de facto gummint.
Oh, the horror of male cops
QPol have had recruitment problems for a long time, trying to employ 17 year olds and such. Word on the grapevine is mums and dads begging their daughters to resign.
Does Qld have an opposition party?
Once they killed the two police and neighbour in the manner they did I think that was a pretty good sign not going to give in easily.
Let’s not forget they tried their best to kill the other two police.
They would have known what the response would be and did open fire on the Bearcat.
By that point I don’t have any problem with SERT responding accordingly.
My concern however is with the Union head and Deputy Commissioner emphasising the anti Vax aspect and the laughable suggestion that people report people who believed in Covid conspiracies. I think they don’t work as advertised, Dr’s were silenced and injuries and deaths suppressed. Pretty sure such thinking would not go down well if I was in Qld police..
However it should be remembered that Qld Police were all in on the Vax and had in late July started coercing it’s over 50’s to take jab number 4 or lose their jobs. Meanwhile other Qld Government Departments had dropped mandates and SA Unvaxxed police had returned to work in March. Qld police seem to have been brainwashed and critical thinking crushed in relation to the Vax. Why ?
The Trains made it perfectly clear that they were going to commit Suicide by Cop in their uploaded video.
They then attempted to kill as many as they could – by setting fire to the scrub and hunting one cop like an animal, then when the cops went in, first to retrieve the murdered colleagues, then in the armoured vehicle.
Bye bye.
The subsequent politics/manipulation/narrative smoothing is another thing altogether.
I would like to know what decisions were made, and when. Like the ADF, police are professionals and the police in particular need very specific RoE’s to engage and kill assailants, and to engage and kill all three requires an explaination.
We are a country that obvstentively follows the rules of law; the equivalent of the police special forces don’t get to make up the rules as they go because they are angry, no matter how despicable those assailants are/were. Ask Ben Roberts VC about the use of deadly force and legal accountability…
The early reporting stated the Good Samaritan neighbour had been caught ‘in the crossfire’ maybe it was the Trains, maybe it wasn’t. The least we could hope for is that the coroner would find and report the truth of it, whatever the circumstances.
Indeed.
Always remember that dead men don’t tell tales.
HT. That’s an ideal world where RoEs are followed…not today where old ladies and pregnant women get bashed by cops. ….something like Oz 50 years ago….but today things are very different…
Here’s Airlie Beach two months ago..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vADfdZzJAmc…
Watch the report and then try to get your head around how cops actually ARE…4-5 shots fired into the young bloke, and then consider that the “dangerous knife” in question was 4 (that’s FOUR) centimetres long. Tasers…or a two-foot baton would not have got that gigantic penknife out of his hand I tell’s ya!
Cops are militarised thugs these days…and never forget it.
Diogenes, Roger, Bourne1879, Calli
frollickingmole: “sit ’em out” was an option, until the owlhoots opted for the “Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid” finale.
Definitely doesn’t pass the pub test.
I’d like to see the body cam footage from the initial four officers to see exactly why they were at the property. Of course it will never be released.
By the way is the author suggesting the neighbour was not shot by the cop killers or has that been thrown in just as a reason why SERT should not have killed them.
The first two cops were ambushed and were executed whilst on the ground. One wounded cop was able to get in a car and get away whilst the female cop hid in the bush. I think we can safely conclude both thought they were not in a position to take on the shooters without more backup. I have not seen any account that mentioned any of the four cops returning fire.
I would be most interested to know who else but the cop killers could have killed the neighbour.
There are aspects to this incident I would like clarified but SERT killing them is not one of them. By the time they arrived they knew they were dealing with highly dangerous people who had already killed three. Two execution style and one an innocent neighbour. If I was briefing SERT or SERT commander the priority would not be arresting them but making sure no more police died. Their actions had already indicated not going peacefully.
On the face of it, a decision was taken to kill these three people, and that decision was carried out by SERT.
Police in Australia have a long history of ending rural sieges via the death of those involved who are not police. It’s almost a fait accomplie.
Whilst the death of the Trains appears to be no great loss, there is a whole lot more going on here. Unfortunately I have zero confidence that a Coronial Inquest will answer the most important questions. Did Police handling of the Trains reinforce their perspective and subsequent actions? How did Police command manage to walk a number of relatively junior officers into an ambush? Who actually murdered the neighbour?
The Police union head is a complete loon. His assessment of the Trains views would see most posters on this forum sanctioned. The problem here is not the existence of a single loon, but the high probability that his views are shared by many others within the Police Union and Police Command. With such an antithetical approach to many commonly held views and concerns it is not hard to see how the Trains ended up on a collision course with the Police. (I had a casual discussion with the local police where the subject of vaccination came up, to them it was inconceivable that I was not vaccinated and that I had lost my job for it. Whilst they are definitely entitled to such a view, my guess is that there is little variety in Police perspectives and ultimately little Police tolerance for alternative views.)
An ideal would be to capture them alive, fairly try them and then execute them legally.
There were so many lies and staged managed moments regarding this pathetically sad matter that there must be an open inquiry – in at least to clear the name of the QPS.
Bourne1879says:
January 4, 2023 at 9:29 am
I can assure you that there is significant disquiet in QPS over the vax. Being sold out by their union wasn’t popular. They lost many over the vax (both sacked and resigned) and they are struggling to reach half their recruitment target. Add this event which will probably cause a number of beat cops to re-evaluate in light of how they have already been treated by QPS and they might struggle even more.
Those who held out for the mandate to be dropped or who took Novavax as a compromise are being punished as well. Talk about bloody-mindedness. I suppose the Commissioner has to appear to be tough and uncompromising.
I have sympathy for the beat cops as they are like us, take the vax or lose your job, when they have families to support.
Rogersays:
January 4, 2023 at 10:28 am
My concern however is with the Union head and Deputy Commissioner emphasising the anti Vax aspect…
The QPU used to be a staunchly apolitical union. Until covid. I was told that all the union leaders were summoned to a meeting with the Premier and when they came out, all were in favour of the mandates.
The published recording of police radio comms has one of the wounded (& subsequently murdered) cops “reloading”
Within the QLD government Qhealth are still pushing the bullshit that the vax is highly safe and pretty effective.
I was talking with someone imposing the mandate in their area and there logic was “vaccines are safe and effective, it’s just another vaccines”. Yet they believe they are the intelligent once following the science. They have nothing but contempt for those opposed to the mNRA vax.
I think part of it is them not wanting to admit to themselves that they are actively participating in something horrible. Because they are convince they a morally superior person.
Check out the Waco siege in Texas for interesting comparisons. In that instance state and federal police and the military were involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
ultimately little Police tolerance for alternative views
Mrs Eyrie was talking to our copper neighbour during the vax rollout. He was of the opinion that once all the holdouts were vaxxed we’d be OK. Coppers aren’t chosen for their high IQ.
Police aka “The Gang in Blue” (or increasingly, Black).
@Salvatore
Please include a link the published recording.
@Bourne1879 @Perfidious
I’m suggesting that we do not know how the neighbour died. I was always puzzled that he was reportedly shot in the back. I don’t know whether he was armed, but is seems to me likely that if you were going to investigate volleys of shots, you would take your rifle. Your neighbours would probably recognise you; the police probably would not.
What evidence is there that the Trains did, finally, attack the police, Butch Cassidy style? If there is any, please post the relevant links here.
@calli Do you have a link for the uploaded video? Was this video made and uploaded (as I assume) after the house was put under siege?
There was an incident on the Downs a few years ago during which a senior constable from Toowoomba station was killed. IIRC (big if) there was news helicopter footage on the resultant siege, including the subject’s final rushing of police officers, during which he was killed.
O/T
Paul Joseph Watson on Merkel’s legacy for Germany. New years assimilation.
3 minutes duration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JydhMbUsnO0
One bloke who was a co-ordinator in the air wing with 16 years of service was stood down without pay for he refused to submit to a vaccination. By the way he worked well away from any conduct with the public and he couldn’t resign for he would lose all his entitlements and in any case they wouldn’t give him a reference. He took them to court twice and lost both times so he became a person of interest to them. As soon as the mandate for compulsory vaccination was dropped they sacked him. So much for the union protecting it’s members, so much for the police force bureaucrats of today.
Peter, the video was made three hours after they murdered the police officers. They admitted to the crime. It was uploaded to YouTube but the account, which included 10 other videos, has been taken down.
If you Google Train Siege Video, there are a number of sites which will provide you with the script only. Some also include content of the other videos, mostly apocalyptic stuff.
From memory, Mr Dare was shot in the back at a range of 60m. It might have been a police weapon, but I’m thinking a long arm more likely.
And Peter, thank you for taking the trouble to do a guest post on this terrible tragedy.
The more sunlight shed on it, the better.
Peter, they admitted to killing the police. The only way it could be otherwise is if the uploaded video is a fake. This is possible, but not probable. It surfaced way too soon with a raft of other material.
The only way they could have avoided death was to surrender. They chose not to.
Calli, the neighbour was ALLEGEDLY shot in the back from 60m. We really don’t know the details and likely never will.
As for “The only way they could have avoided death was to surrender. They chose not to.”
I doubt there was any intention to give them the opportunity. They weren’t going anywhere.
As others have indicated the Qld police union totally failed their members over the Vax mandates. I can understand the first two being implemented but by the 3rd and most especially the fourth it was quite clear they were not working as advertised.
For those interested you can read their Police journal online and the June 2022 edition mentions annual Union speach by the Union President in which he mentions they were given legal advice in January 2021 (ie. 18 months earlier !) that the Commissioner’s directive was a valid order. There are other references to that order in the journals. What you won’t see is any mention of medical advice. When the Police Commissioner gave evidence in the police mandate case she was a disaster who was unable to back up on what basis she implemented the order. Then only a few weeks later she mandated jab number 4 for over 50’s. The fact unvaxed SA Police had gone back to work in March was even mentioned during the Qld court case.
Qld police now have a very obvious recruiting problem despite the fact they were not as bad as NSW and VIC during lockdowns. The Vax mandate was only dropped a few weeks ago. They were probably too dumb to realise that their online recruitment questionnaire required people be triple jabbed (Q8) when approximately 30% of the Qld population had not been. They effectively rejected 30% of the people from even being able to apply.
I was told by a QPS Union delegate that the initial number who were not keen to take the jab was 1,100. Many of those obviously did but probably thought will only be two. I think it is safe to say thousands now would be far from happy. If you happened to speak to one of them about the possibility of joining QPS do you think they would be speaking positively about working in such an organisation?
As mentioned this is followed by the very anti Vax statements by union boss and Deputy Commissioner in relation to the shooters. Good luck in your career if you want to speak out against Vax mandates.
This is similar to situation 3/4 years ago when the organisation was all in on trying to get 50% women. That turned out to be a disaster because nobody was willing to challenge it. That had serious implications for recruiting and they were turning away suitable male candidates. Now they are trying to get 17 year olds direct from school.
The Police and other unions in my humble opinion traded their members bodily integrity for future benefits. Since then the Qld police and nurses have become the highest paid in the country.
Too complicated to get into but this is why the Qld Government is doing everything it can to prevent alternative Unions getting going (ie. Red Union). Check out the Police journal June 2022 edition where the Union’s lawyer indicated the Union would take legal action against any who contemplated joining another organisation. That was actually supported by a vote at their AGM. Same journal mentions Union wanting any pay rises and final benefits at retirement to only apply to Union members.
The members if they had any guts should be organising to get the numbers to remove the current police union leadership.
@calli
Thanks Calli. I couldn’t find the text in an initial search. It will be increasingly hard to find. Anyone know if the video is on Rumble or elsewhere?
From whom? How would that be determined, except by knowing who did the shooting, and relative positions of shooter and victim? It would take an autopsy by someone very experienced in gunshot wounds to determine that, I think. That, or an eye-witness.
I’m not saying that one of the Trains didn’t shoot the neighbour, but they weren’t the only ones discharging firearms. There were panic-stricken, I imagine, police officers involved in all the shooting.
Again, that is opinion, not fact. Just like the “allegedly” claim. I, like you, look forward to the ballistics. However, if we are going down a rabbit hole, those could be faked too.
As for the accidental 60m hit from a hand gun, good luck with that. At the stage Dare was hit, two police were dead, one was off in the vehicle with a leg wound and the other was being hunted in burning scrub. Which Mr. Dare noticed and came to check out. And then scarpered, only to be shot.
If she was being hunted, with what? My best guess is a long arm with a sight. Looks as if they were tooled up for just that. Again, it’s conjecture, but it was probably what was used to shoot Dare.
Let’s not forget the complaint about Naplan. It probably tipped that one brother over the edge to become more like the other brother.
the other was being hunted in burning scrub. Which Mr. Dare noticed and came to check out. And then scarpered, only to be shot.
No, Dare heard gunshots and went next door to investigate, according to his wife.
This was about 4:40 pm, 25 minutes after police arrived at the house to allegedly be met with a hail of gunfire.
They’re only 100 acre blocks, but perhaps the speed of sound is a tad slower out Wieambilla way?
Read the story of the neighbour who was with him.
He thought it was a house fire. Only one link, but there are several more with the same story. The men weren’t too worried about the shots as they had heard them in the area before that day, but they seemed too prolonged this time.
What is “execution style”
I hear a frequently in the news these days
Military style – tied to a post, blindfolded and shot?
Criminal Gang Style – walk up and shoot in the back of the head, or kneeling, tied up and shot in the back of the head
Are there other “styles”, or is this a term now meaning anyone sht who you sympathise with, is “executed”?
As soon as this term is used, you know there is now justification for “consequence” .. am I right?
Australian police, hair trigger for anyone who harms one of them, or anyone who even doesn’t assist them when dying .. they are their own law now, not just enforcers of the legislated laws.
An angry mob, is what our police are becoming.
Actually the complaints were much darker than that.
I note that response was diametrically opposite what happened at the Lindt Cafe.
Was the difference that people were watching the Lindt siege? NSW vs QLD police? Public at risk vs police deaths?
While I’m all for police discretion, it obviously does not extend anywhere near killing peeps after the fact or protecting the officer in charge from reputational risk.
Liberty is when information of private citizens remains private and information of public officials’ actions and government is publicly available.
The most important observation made on this thread.
I despise and distrust them so much nowadays that whenever they hove into view I immediately and surreptitiously start heading off in an (as much as possible) opposite direction.
@calli
Thanks for the link about the neighbour. Unfortunately, the story has some difficulties. They’re responding to the fire, so two officers are dead, one is in the car on the way back to the station (?), and one is hiding in the grass, trying to stay out of the grass fire. Three shooters fire on Dare and the other neighbour. Dare is killed, and the other neighbour brings his phone back to Dare’s wife.
One wonders if said vision (like the Canberra AFP vision which would have exonerated me) ‘went flat’ ?
That would be 30% of the population triple jabbed (if you are lucky) not 70%. And in younger folk that may wish to join maybe 10% are if you’re lucky. Interestingly I was chatting to a cop a couple of months ago that has been very severely disabled by the jab, months of work and unlikely to fully recover.
Well it’s always worthwhile separating views of the individual from the system. In some states where the system is foul yes one could question the integrity of individuals that chose to remain.
That said they unfortunately deal with people at their very worst each day. Every day people lie to them, lie lie lie. Over time is becomes normal and ‘if they do I can too’ especially if it might create a better outcome or a breakthrough in a situation. So before long many end up lying as much as a Lawyer or a Journalist.
I have seen an article about a TAS cop who was vax injured and indicated Govt/Police would not accept job related. He had got the jab prior to actual TAS mandate but mentioned he was already being encouraged to get it as they knew mandate coming.
“Interestingly I was chatting to a cop a couple of months ago that has been very severely disabled by the jab, months of work and unlikely to fully recover”.
Been listening to the Bret Weinstein interview of Dr Asseem Malhortra.
Good question at the end. Brett asked are you concerned about being double vaxxed. Malhortra says most issues seem to take place soon after vax. He was one of the earliest to be vaxxed in UK. Malhortra emphasises good diet and health may mitigate some issues.
Bret says risks cumulative.
Malhortra was one of those behind push to drop mandates for UK NHS. He did repeat that vax should be stopped.
Oops wrong thread.
@calli
Thanks especially for this, calli. And thanks to Dover for approving it.
One wonders if said vision (like the Canberra AFP vision which would have exonerated me) ‘went flat’ ?
As I mentioned previously, we should run a book on what excuse QPS will have for not releasing body cam footage.
OK, so not a comment on my earlier post where I linked to two cops shooting a young inebriated bloke 5 times because he “threatened” them with a FOUR CENTIMETRE knife. I guess the reality of Qld Coppers hurts lotsa New Cats who would prefer the older kinder Oz cops to be running the show, eh?
25 minutes after the first shots were fired, neighbour Mr Dare arrives and the remaining cops woulda had no idea who he was. One of the shooters from the house?
What about a full release of CopCam?
Peter, thanks for posting, For every explanation I’ve heard, I end up with more questions. For instance, why leave the neighbor’s body lying there for 13 hrs, instead of recovering it with the two police? Especially as the SERT had been confronted by his wife on the way in.
Has there been any confirmation of the meth usage statement?
If suicide by police was their choice, why give it to them, rotting in jail would seem more fitting.
They were all ex Dept. of Ed. Hardly Rambo material I would have thought.
The youngest brothers posts seemed to focus on VicPol issues re freedom protests responses. Therefore all cops bad?
Finally, does anyone know if police jumping over a locked gate constitutes trespass under the Constitution?? That could be a contributing issue.
Finally, does anyone know if police jumping over a locked gate constitutes trespass under the Constitution?? That could be a contributing issue.
Depends on whether or not they had a warrant.
About 18 months ago, a couple of NT Police had a spot of bother, with a, (first nations victim), violent offender.
Didn’t go well for the offender.
Oddly, immediately after, the Director of Prosecutions made several, (threats?), statements, that indicated the (guilty bastard), alleged killer of the violent offender, would, (rue the day he was born), be prosecuted.
The subsequent court case would hardly be enough, of course.
Now, compare that, to the tragic outcome in Qld.
Imagine if the Trains were of the oldest culture on earth.
I’m sure Albo and Bruce Pascoe would be inconsolable.
I’m not sure but I heard they were part Aboriginal? maybe not enough part this time…?
Shouldn’t need to be said that Mankind all has the same ancestral age of course, so for that matter all ‘cultures’ are the same age too – if it’s possible to define a culture that is.
Trespass is not mentioned at all in the constitution.