When words don’t count, God’s on your side, and privilege equals equality


“As I have pointed out repeatedly the only point of contention is constitutional enshrinement, the rest is noise.” So says Chris Kenny in the Weekend Australian. The only point? Yes, that’s right. That is the whole and complete point of the referendum. All kinds of stupid legislation is routinely enacted – net zero, for example. That’s quite different from enshrining it in the Constitution. Kenny seems bright enough whenever I see him on Sky News. Evidently, the Voice has undermined his reason.

But Greg Craven takes the cake. He evidently thinks the proposed wording of the constitutional amendment is awful, yet he’ll vote for it anyway. Apparently he intends to argue the case for a change in wording having already ceded his vote and support for the current wording. The Julian Leeser option. Advice to the PM and Linda Burney and Noel Pearson, safely ignore Craven, Leeser and their fellow travellers. Their votes are in the bag. In fact, you could afford to tinker with the words to make it absolutely clear that the Voice could inject itself into every executive decision and would be staffed to allow it to do so, and still not lose these people who have nailed their colours to the mast wherever it leads

Craven also invokes his Catholic faith and conservatism to bolster his case.

For me the moral logic of the voice flows deeply from my Catholic faith. All people are given life by a loving God, who demands they be able to live it to the fullest extent. It is clear to me that indigenous people have never had that right… [the voice] will deliver vast symbolic recognition of their equal citizenship in our commonwealth…The moral payload is inescapable. It is no coincidence that many conservative supporters of the voice come from explicitly Christian or Jewish traditions.

It’s hard to know where to begin with this bafflegab. First, many prominent Aboriginal people, those who will most certainly hold most sway cometh the Voice, are far wealthier than average Australians. True there are some disadvantaged indigenous people in remote communities but it’s not hard to find many disadvantaged non-indigenous people, in fact more of them in absolute numbers. What is living life to the fullest extent anyway? What does it mean? I have no idea and neither does Craven. And I don’t pretend to know what God demands, as Craven does, apart from the Ten Commandments, and loving God and our neighbours as ourselves. That aside, how in the world can God demand of me that other people live their lives to the fullest extent possible. Give us all a break. We can’t control the behavior and sometimes the self-destructive behaviour of others.

Second, Craven misses the irony of putting in the constitution a privileged status for those claiming Aboriginality, as being a symbolic recognition of their equality. No, its recognition of their superiority. Imagine a clause in the Constitution giving only those who can establish they are at least 80 percent European additional political representation. There would an outcry of racism. Claims of white supremacism would no doubt fill the airwaves.

Third, there is no moral imperative at issue. The moral imperative for us all is to do our best to help and to provide opportunities for all Australians in need, without fear or favour. Choosing the means to try to do that is a matter of practicality and pragmatism. Some people, including Craven, claim that the establishment of the Voice is the best means available to help that section of the disadvantaged population who are indigenous. However, by definition, there is no evidence in support of that claim; and other people of good will and experience believe that it will do damage to the body politic in general and to the Aboriginal cause in particular. That there are better ways. Morality is wrapped up in trying to do something not in deciding the best means.

Fourth, I am not at all sure of the Craven’s data when he claims that it’s no coincidence that many conservatives in support of the voice come from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. I’d like to see the data. First, conservatives are much more likely to be Christians than are lefties and greenies. That kind of biases the sample. Second, it’s probably best to delete from any list of conservatives those who are CINOs; wets, like Leeser and Simon Birmingham, as examples. They simply don’t count as conservatives. Chris Kenny’s an anomaly, so far as can tell. Is he Christian? I don’t know. I do know that he was done like a dinner recently when he interviewed Jacinta Nampijinpa Price. Looked red-faced and most uncomfortable as she gently skewered him with cogent arguments.  Sadly, he’s backed himself into a corner. I see cognitive dissonance in his immediate future.


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C.L.
C.L.
April 15, 2023 5:40 pm

Kenny seems bright enough whenever I see him on Sky News.

Huge call.

Megan
Megan
April 15, 2023 5:41 pm

We live in a time of intellectual disintegration. The feelz are far more important than planning or strategising, looking for road blocks or unforeseen consequences, and developing workable solutions.
Clothe the whole Canberra Mess in a collection of meaningless babble, accuse the No supporters of being racists while actually dividing the inhabitants of the country by race and pretending the Voice is a magic wand that once waved by the urban activist class will immediately remove disadvantage, violence, sexual assault of children and a toxic culture from indigenous communities where $34bill per annum handouts have failed to achieve any of those things and you have an monstrously ugly non-solution to an ongoing problem.
God forbid you should mention any of this in the company of brain-dead do gooders, the shock and revulsion will drown you in a nanosecond.
Let it happen as the virtue signallers have demanded and watch the shock and horror gradually dawn on them over the years to come as to exactly what foul damage they have wrought.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
April 15, 2023 5:45 pm

Hasn’t Craven ever read Animal Farm? All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Orwell was wised up on the language the Left uses and the tricks they play. The Voice will be more equal than we lowly proles.

If he can’t see that this is an effective coup by the Left he’s thick as. The Voice will be selected entirely from the urban indigenous class, who vote lockstep Labour/Green. Therefore not only is it a new elitist caste but it also will be a veto on anything the Left doesn’t like. Thus Australia will effectively become a one party state. If it is this clear to me why isn’t it clear to Craven?

Lee
Lee
April 15, 2023 6:06 pm

To see how bad the Voice will be, you only have to look at the people pushing it.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 15, 2023 6:11 pm

The Voice will be selected entirely from the urban indigenous class, who vote lockstep Labour/Green.

Even if that’s true, so what?

The Issue isn’t who’s on it, how much they’re paid, whether there’ll be epic rorting, or even Indigenous Welfare.

The one and only issue is that the proposed change to the Constitution will create a House of 24 Kings whose advice to the Commonwealth and probably the Governor General will be final.
It’s the Republic, by another route.

Remember the Pity Line then?
Every Australian child should have the opportunity to become Australia’s Head Of State.
We didn’t fall for that, but it was close.

This time the Yes camp have a head start to burying us with bloc ethnic voting.

WolfmanOz
April 15, 2023 6:17 pm

I posted Craven’s piece today in the Open Thread as requested by Bar Beach Swimmer – I hadn’t actually read it until then . . .

What a tosser who obviously likes the sound his own voice without realising what utter pretentious garbage he is spewing.

Great points you’ve made in your post . . . and I’m with Bruce of Newcastle – and if the SFL can’t see the Trojan Horse that this is then they’re even more stupid than we know.

a reader
a reader
April 15, 2023 6:25 pm

As Corey Bernardi says this Voice will be an Aboriginal House of Lords (if the TSI get more than 1 member they would be over-represented). That folks like Kenny, Craven, Leeser, Birmingham can’t see this shows either a wilful blindness or they’re either lying to you or to themselves.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 15, 2023 6:41 pm

Labor politics now consists entirely of wedging the Liberal Party on liberal issues.
Same Sex Marriage is a liberal issue.
Sure, it wasn’t one of the 5,000 most important liberal issues, but once Labor kicked life into it, the Liberals had nowhere to turn.
Refugees is another one, so is Aborigines.

No Liberal voter wants to be hear guff from their leaders about The Voice being racist or a Trojan Horse to introduce Apartheid, that would be an insult to an Imbecile’s intelligence.

Dutton’s only way through is to keep asking for the Solicitor-General’s advice, the A/Gs advice, and to keep the focus on improving the life outcomes of Indigenous in remote areas.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 15, 2023 6:51 pm

Just on Julian Leeser, his Wiki entry states that he wrote the Australian Dictionary of Biography Entry on Sir William McMahon.

Leeser was only 11 when McMahon died, so someone else must have written an entry previously.
I wonder why that entry was discarded and Leeser’s was substituted, because Leeser is less than complimentary about what he sees as McMahon’s shortcomings?

Pattmclit
Pattmclit
April 15, 2023 7:54 pm

Why, in God’s name would any reasonable thinking Christian give any credence to these word put upon us by craven faith deserters and “they, them, you all nonsensical half humans who spruke bullshit.

Christine
Christine
April 15, 2023 8:05 pm

Abbott declared he’d sweat blood for the Aborigines-in-the-Constitution cause.
Craven plans to plain bleed.
Repugnant, from the pair of them.

jupes
jupes
April 15, 2023 9:00 pm

Excellent post Peter. Thank you.

Perfidious Albino
Perfidious Albino
April 15, 2023 9:03 pm

Reading Craven’s personal journey on this in the Oz has been interesting. I said as much in a rejected comment to his piece before this one, noting that whether he continued to the obvious conclusion ie: voting no, would be the real test of his integrity.

Sadly, but perhaps not unexpectedly, he has fallen at that last hurdle and all the fancy wordsmithery in the world can’t cloak his vanity and moral failing.

Craven by name…

Cassie of Sydney
April 15, 2023 9:18 pm

“Sadly, he’s backed himself into a corner. I see cognitive dissonance in his immediate future.”

The Voice is a constitutional coup d’état. It will render our vote meaningless. I don’t know if the Voice will pass or not, however given the foolishness and stupidly of young Australians, thanks to decades of ideological indoctrination in schools, something which successive so called right of centre governments did nothing to abate, it may well be “yes”, and if it gets up and the inevitable happens, I’ll sit back and wait for the mea culpas to come from Craven, Kenny, Leeser and other so called “conservatives”. Because there’s one thing I know for sure and that is if we get the Voice, it will be the end of our voice.

Cassie of Sydney
April 15, 2023 9:19 pm

Lidia Thorpe has more integrity on this than Greg Craven.

mem
mem
April 15, 2023 10:33 pm

I would like to think The Voice was about fixing the many problems of aboriginals both in the outback and in urban areas. But it is not. It is about setting up a new layer of bureaucracy and establishing a new overriding power . That power will not be subject to normal processes of democracy. It is like creating an “Aboriginal Mafia” that will have ultimate say on every important matter in our lives, use of agricultural land, mining, energy production, water resources, tourism and more. Ultimately it will be driven by lefty activists with agendas that have nothing to do with aboriginal wellbeing.

Alamak!
Alamak!
April 16, 2023 12:27 am

Perfidious Albino – beautifully written.

Craven seems too smart to see the obvious – a soft coup. Like Leeser, he appears to think he can bargain for a place on the new gravy train.

Hugh
Hugh
April 16, 2023 6:18 am

What if we’re all a bit abo? Harvard geneticist Dr Nathaniel Jeanson makes a pretty good case in his riveting book ‘Traced’ that, going back a mere thousand years or so, we’re all related to each other, even those consummate xenophobes on the Andaman islands.

Rather queers the pitch, eh?

Anchor What
Anchor What
April 16, 2023 6:46 am

1967 referendum – much lied about. Actually removed words from the constitution, and they were not “flora” or “fauna”.
1970s – the start of “sit down money” – didn’t improve things.
Land Rights Case – court made a judgement based on Mabo Island culture not mainland walkabout culture. Didn’t make it better.
Rudd’s Big Sorry – sold to the nation as making it all better, another failure.
ATSIC – had to be disbanded because dysfunctional, not making things better.
Now: with more parliamentary representatives than ever before we need this “Voice”?
It is another virtue signalling indulgence. It may cause more problems than it cures, and is probably a stepping stone towards Treaty and Reparations, or worse.

Gabor
Gabor
April 16, 2023 7:02 am

Anchor What says:
April 16, 2023 at 6:46 am
It may cause more problems than it cures,

Typical feature of government action.

and is probably a stepping stone towards Treaty and Reparations, or worse.

Spot on.

duncanm
duncanm
April 16, 2023 7:21 am

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

that’s the “No” argument in a nutshell.

It’s all that’s needed – there should be stickers on every corner lamp post.

Cassie of Sydney
April 16, 2023 7:45 am

“Like Leeser, he appears to think he can bargain for a place on the new gravy train.”

This is the Liberal Party of Australia in a nutshell and it’s been its whole raison d’etre over the last decade, particularly since September 2015. They still think that if they join the gravy train they’ll get the respect and votes of people who will never respect them, who will never vote for them and who in fact, loathe them.

Christine
Christine
April 16, 2023 8:14 am

mem: “creating an Aboriginal Mafia”

If a mini-Mafia already exists in the Northern Territory, imagine it on a grand scale.
It would be irresistible.

People like Craven are self-regarding.
He’s pretending to persuade – when in fact he’s preaching.

Rafiki
Rafiki
April 16, 2023 8:58 am

There are some vast overstatements here of the certain effects of this Voice. Even centre-right government facing a hostile Senate could cut down its operations by turning off the money supply via the annual Appropriation Act.
The basic objection is that it puts one racially defined group in a privileged position. Duncanm makes this point, but his suggested bumper sticker might be taken by many as a yes-case promotion. Some Monash based group defends the Voice on the ground that the Constitution permits racial discrimination. It may not be only Aboruginal identifiers who think this should be a basis for all kinds of policies.

calli
calli
April 16, 2023 9:05 am

All people are given life by a loving God, who demands they be able to live it to the fullest extent. It is clear to me that indigenous people have never had that right…

That, in itself, is an outright lie.

In one sentence, Craven denies the “65,000” years of history that progressives enshrine in their magical thinking of pre-colonisation paradise, and denigrates the positive impact of modern technologies on aboriginal lifestyle and longevity.

Indigenous people have always had the right to live to the “fullest extent”. They had it before white settlement. The “fullest extent” in that frame was existence maintained to eat and reproduce, with a little bit of free time to create art on rock walls and other objects, to perform rites and dances and make music. Does Craven’s idea of a “loving God” not extend to his eternal presence and character? It sounds as if his view of the Almighty is that of a benevolent old gent in a nightshirt who suddenly appeared in 1788.

At this time in their long history, “the fullest extent” might be in the context of modern life and all that entails. To embrace this requires a choice. To keep a race of people in cultural zoos is wickedness that people like Craven think is just peachy. It also gives the tribal Big Men in funds and supplies a ready selection of hapless and hopeless to beat everyone else around the head with. And tug at the purse strings just that little bit more.

The grievance industry has never worked. What did work for many indigenous was the high expectation that they would be educated, employed, healthy and prosperous and take their place with the rest of humanity. They will not be able to achieve this if they are kept in remote communities – the time for that has long passed.

As for the urbanised and integrated, why the special privileges? Why the “sit down money”? It devalues their ability to be prosperous and productive and kills incentive. And with that comes many of the societal ills we see and is not limited to the indigenous.

Louis Litt
April 16, 2023 9:08 am

Cassie 16/4 @ 7.45
Agreed- what I find interesting is the stupidity of Wong, Albenese etc – allways banging on about Anti American imperialism/society etc, pro China etc , Then run to America with the Subs deal – the enemy is China.
Upper middle income earners who think they are smart but are removed from reality.
Linda Burnley – dresses line she is going to a Viennese ball.

Enyaw
Enyaw
April 16, 2023 9:15 am

NO.. A Thousand Times NO …NO…Ten Thousand Times NO …NO ..etc , etc ,

Boambee John
Boambee John
April 16, 2023 9:24 am

Grandpa Ed Simpson

This time the Yes camp have a head start to burying us with bloc ethnic voting.

You keep babbling on about “bloc ethnic voting”, “Muslims voting as a single group” and “FECCA organising the ethnic vote”, all in favour of the inVoice.

Can you spell out, in plain words, what advantages ethnics and Muslims get from handing political power to 24 indigenous “kings”? Do they hope to have the kings declare that every non-white in Australia is “indigenous”? Where is the benefit to them?

Roger
Roger
April 16, 2023 9:51 am

For me the moral logic of the voice flows deeply from my Catholic faith. All people are given life by a loving God, who demands they be able to live it to the fullest extent.

Accepting that for argument’s sake, the best policy would be to close the remote communities and promote assimilation into the mainstream of Australian life.

I note most of the indigenous activists arguing strongly for the Voice are well assimilated.

NFA
NFA
April 16, 2023 10:10 am

The Australian “Public Service” will be redundant.

They can all be sacked.

Offices not used by “The Voicers” can be retrofitted as housing for immigrants.

Cassie of Sydney
April 16, 2023 10:26 am

“There are some vast overstatements here of the certain effects of this Voice. “

Now that’s what I call an understatement.

Bazinga
Bazinga
April 16, 2023 10:46 am

I note most of the indigenous activists arguing strongly for the Voice are well assimilated.

Can we conclude the priveleged assimilated types hate the unassimilated types as part of their tribality?

Leabrae
Leabrae
April 16, 2023 10:54 am

The forthcoming referendum on a “Voice” is a question of power, as the comments here have made plain. It is not a welfare measure. If the electorate votes “Yes” (according to the rules), the result, in time, will be tears with no legal means of reform.

Greg Craven’s mawkish ramblings have, presumably, to appease his friends after allowing the Liberal Party to quote him: very down market.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 16, 2023 11:13 am

Can we conclude the priveleged assimilated types hate the unassimilated types as part of their tribality?

“Hate” is a bit strong.
Stupid people tend to despise rustics further away from the fleshpots than them, Aborigines aren’t Robinson Crusoe there.

The type of people who will make the cut
as the 24 Uncle Tokens isn’t the real issue here, though.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 16, 2023 11:15 am

Now that’s what I call an understatement.

What do you mean?

eli
eli
April 16, 2023 2:26 pm

It is significant that Mr Craven noted only those conservative supporters (of the Voice) from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. The Faith Leader’s Open Letter to Federal Parliamentarians on the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice Referendum dated 22FEB23 included representatives also from Buddhist, Islam, Hindi and Sikh faiths.
Like many other Australians I see the Voice/Uluru to be increasingly about the “vibe” of it all spiced with unpleasantries directed and implied against those who do not agree with a particular view. Along with many others I have spoken with I wish to understand the following (and please don’t give me the “Parliament will look after the detail when it is done” line):
1. how the Voice will “work” including cost to achieve defined end-states.
2. what effects the Voice (and apparently consequential Treaty and Truth-telling) will have upon our existing governance, sovereignty and history as a nation state.
3. the text of the amendment to our Constitution.

Christine
Christine
April 16, 2023 2:30 pm

The assimilated ones would draw in their skirts
if an unassimilated one came too close to their cafe table.
That’s the females.
It might be different with men.

Rabz
April 16, 2023 5:00 pm

The single stupidest and most ridiculous brain fart vomited into existence by our quisling political class ever.

“Coup d’etat”

Rabz
April 16, 2023 5:02 pm

Oh – and craven is a preposterous narcissistic pseudo-intellectual imbecile.

You don’t speak for me, you vile piece of excrement.

Ed Case
Ed Case
April 16, 2023 6:53 pm

Fourth, I am not at all sure of the Craven’s data when he claims that it’s no coincidence that many conservatives in support of the voice come from Judeo-Christian backgrounds.

Greg Craven didn’t say that.
He said:

It is no coincidence that many conservative supporters of the voice come from explicitly Christian or Jewish traditions.

Here’s the Policy of the peak body,
The Executive Council of Australian Jewry:
4:10

ENDORSES as just, reasonable and achievable the Statement’s call for:
a First Nations Voice to Parliament in the form of an advisory body on policy affecting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, to be enshrined in the Australian constitution.
a Makarrata Commission to oversee agreement-making between the Australian government and Indigenous people.
a truth and reconciliation process to be facilitated by the Makarrata Commission.

Pretty clear cut, I’d say.

Boambee John
Boambee John
April 16, 2023 7:52 pm

Grandpa Ed Simpson

ENDORSES as just, reasonable and achievable the Statement’s call for:
a First Nations Voice to Parliament[Not the executive government] in the form of an advisory body on policy affecting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people [Not on everything], to be enshrined in the Australian constitution.

Not quite “clear cut”. There are a couple of subtle differences to the AnAl proposal, which seem to have eluded your razor sharp mind.

Hugh
Hugh
April 16, 2023 8:25 pm

And if Jeanson is wrong, which he’s not – just do the straight maths – why can’t Stan, who wants to identify as Loretta, identify as an abo? What’s the test?

Problem: “When everybody’s somebodee, then no-one’s anybodee!” W.S. Gilbert

Popcorn time, everyone.

billie
billie
April 17, 2023 12:41 pm

What will be our form of government be once this is possibly in place.

A partially elected oligarchy?

Minority ruling race group with subordinate elected deomractic oligarchy?

If the USA is a Republic, UK is a monarchy, and anyone asks, what are you guys ..?

What are we now, what will we be?

It doesn’t make much difference, except to remind those who think we’re a democracy, that we are not.

Once people vote for this they will back it with excuses even when it is a raging dumpster fire. It will continue till a capable future goverment or invader’s imposed government throws it out.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
April 18, 2023 5:52 pm

bafflegab

The very best word for it. Just vote No.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
April 18, 2023 5:56 pm

cultural zoos

That’s a good term too when applied to the Nugget Coombes ‘Noble Savage’ out-station catastrophe.

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