Barnes on the federal Trump indictments


Excellent overview of the constitutional issues raised by the recent federal indictments againt Trump, the leading challenger in the 2024 Presidential election. It all appears to hang on Article II powers conferred on every President, including classified material.

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Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
June 13, 2023 11:10 am

The blatant hypocrisy of giving Hillary and Joe free passes has pretty much discredited this rubbish.

Poll: 80% of Republicans Say Donald Trump Should Be Able to Serve as President if Convicted (12 Jun)

Which pretty much means 80% of Republicans know this to be a partisan hit job that would be embarrassing even in a banana republic.

Kingsley
Kingsley
June 13, 2023 12:20 pm

I can’t find link but was either on Redstate or Hotair saying the document of the war plans for invading Iran that the Left and the prosecutor have got so excited over, because Trump is recorded showing it to someone, has NOT been found. Leading to some to suggest this was Trump just being Trump and bulldusting some aide or Journo. Whilst that makes Trump look a little bit silly it is going to make the prosecutor look far more silly as obviously no offence committed.

Muddy
Muddy
June 13, 2023 12:27 pm

Maybe this comes under the category of Precautionary Justice based on computer modelling of hypothetical scenarios (like Primate Change)?

billie
billie
June 13, 2023 1:49 pm

Americans have to find a way to limit their politician’s terms in office, that’s the only way for people entering their system, to accomplish anything. (Mitch the Turtle, is a piece of work, as is Schumer, Nancy and the Clintons, oh my)

It’s amusing watching and listening to Americans talking about democracy in the rest of the world, that they sure don’t have, but somehow still believe they are the arbiters of it.

I don’t think Trump has a chance of actually making it to the next election in any state to play a part.

That’s sad, but their DOJ and DOS simply won’t have their plans and ambitions thwarted again.

Zatara
Zatara
June 13, 2023 5:00 pm

Biden’s DoJ established four different Grand Juries to look for “crimes” that Trump, his presumptive opponent in the next presidential election, might possibly be charged with.

One would have to be incredibly delusional or utterly stupid not to see that for that it is.

Barnes is spot on in his analysis and I hope he does join a team of smart, aggressive, courageous, politically savvy lawyers to take up Trump’s case because that’s what it’s going to take.

Damon
Damon
June 13, 2023 9:32 pm

What it will take is a group of lawyers who believe in democracy, and who are prepared to put their lives on the line. Seriously, their lives and careers. That’s how serious it is.

Anchor What
Anchor What
June 14, 2023 5:07 am

“News” services continue to report this travesty as if it was kosher.

Anchor What
Anchor What
June 14, 2023 5:21 am

Former director of communications for Trump White House schools BBC’s Kesby during Newshour re the likely outcomes of the various charges against Don. He thinks it will all be a fizzer.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 9:16 am

Barnes’ entire argument is that Trump is the King and his word is law, because he alone possesses the divine right to represent the will of the people. Even when Trump himself is on tape saying that he didn’t declassify the documents and that he knew what he was doing was illegal.

Trump’s only redeeming quality is that he ends up making all of his most devoted disciples look stupid by undermining their dumb talking points defending him.

Bruce
Bruce
June 14, 2023 2:29 pm

@ Muddy:

“Precautionary Justice”?

Right up there with:

“Pre-emptive Euthanasia”

and:

“Retrospective Abortion”.

And, PM Tin Tin’s favourite:

“I’m from the Government and I’m here to help”.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 4:47 pm

That is the prerogative given to the Executive, which the President personifies, by Article II.

The American Founders did not fight a war to get rid of a King just to appoint their own.

No, he is conferred that right via an election and thus by the People.

Leaders are bound by the same laws as any citizen. What you are arguing for is not democracy.

It really doesn’t matter what he says. The argument will be, I think, that his acts were sufficient.

Barnes reckons a President declassifies documents by… taking them home. This is ridiculous at every level, anyone who pushes it can not be taken seriously. He is a loudmouth clown in a stupid bowtie.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 5:58 pm

Barnes is a dumb son of a bitch, but at least he knows his bullshit wouldn’t fly in an actual court. He’s less reputable than Sidney Powell and L. Lin Wood, whose careers have ended in disgrace.

His rubbish is for gullible rubes like you, db, who desperately want to be told something other than the truth.

pete m
pete m
June 14, 2023 7:11 pm

m0nty seems quite upset this could fizzle out. Poor little screaming baby.

What say you on the only legal precedent of Clinton taking home tapes and that alone, without any formal declaration, was sufficient to render them personal not protected State secrets? What say you m0nty?

Is there 1 rule of law covering this or 2?

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 8:31 pm

What say you on the only legal precedent of Clinton taking home tapes and that alone, without any formal declaration, was sufficient to render them personal not protected State secrets? What say you m0nty?

Is there 1 rule of law covering this or 2?

If you are too thick to understand the difference between tapes of private interviews for the purposes of a book and classified national security secrets marked as top secret, pete m, then I can’t help you figure it out.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 8:35 pm

In particular, Barnes pretending that the Clinton case sets a precedent that the President has absolute authority over all Federal government information is patently ludicrous. Only the most credulous fools would believe him.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 9:08 pm

Barnes’ underlying narrative is that the Presidential Records Act is null and void. He claims that Article 2 trumps it entirely, even though there is no case law at all to support his view. Armchair constitutional law is worth as much as the toilet paper it is written on.

If Barnes is so sure he’s right, obviously he will volunteer to represent Trump in court. Seems like no one else wants to defend him.

Muddy
Muddy
June 14, 2023 9:19 pm

Bruce says:
June 14, 2023 at 2:29 pm

@ Muddy:

“Precautionary Justice”?

It’s safer to judge things before they happen.
We don’t like him.
He’s our enemy.
Enemies are bad, mmmmkay.
Stop the bad before the bad happens.
We’ve done that with Primate Change (and are getting away with it), why not with Trump?
Pre-hurt hunters.
That’s who we are.
Yes, you do need to applaud.
We’re keeping you Saef.

* Interesting video, by the way, Dover. Cheers.

Muddy
Muddy
June 14, 2023 9:37 pm

If a piece of U.S. legislation is found (presumably by the Supreme Court?) to contravene the U.S. Constitution, the former can be effectively cancelled/overridden, correct?

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 10:04 pm

If a piece of U.S. legislation is found (presumably by the Supreme Court?) to contravene the U.S. Constitution, the former can be effectively cancelled/overridden, correct?

Sure. Do you reckon Robert Barnes is an experienced constitutional lawyer good enough to make that argument stick before SCOTUS? Or is he a two-bit hustler who dresses like Peewee Herman?

Alamak!
Alamak!
June 14, 2023 10:09 pm

The challenge to the law has to make its way to the supreme court who needs to agree. Its not a simple process or designed to be easy. The case raised by Barnes seems unlikely to get all the way to the top.

Bourne1879
Bourne1879
June 14, 2023 10:13 pm

Monty seems not to like Barnes thoughts.

Personally I thought sounds like he knows his stuff. Certainly a good rant.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 11:43 pm

Yes, Davis and Barnes agree. And they are both dead wrong.

One might have thought you lot might have learned after your horrifically embarrassing experiences with the Kraken, where you spent months making the most ridiculous arguments and got proven hilariously wrong in case after case, over five dozen of them. Evidently, you just like the punishment.

m0nty
m0nty
June 14, 2023 11:58 pm

That’s the thing though, db: this Divine Right of Kings stuff is about as likely to get up as the Kraken.

You are flogging a dead squid.

m0nty
m0nty
June 15, 2023 12:02 am

This is a far more sober look at the Clinton case, including extensive comments from a Judicial Watch dude.

m0nty
m0nty
June 15, 2023 12:08 am

It is particularly funny that the theory that Trump’s lawyers are putting forward is that the Presidential Records Act empowers the President to declare any and all records as his personal possessions… when this was exactly the opposite intention of the act in the first place, as it was enacted under Carter to prevent the abuses Nixon made of the system during Watergate.

They should get laughed out of court. The only reason they wouldn’t is because corrupt Trump judges are running the show.

m0nty
m0nty
June 15, 2023 12:41 am

I don’t doubt that Judge Cannon has the capability to run with your bulldust line in her rulings. She has proven herself to be a shameless partisan hack already in that other Trump ruling which got smacked down.

It remains to be seen how high Trump’s judicial corruption has spread. Will SCOTUS vote in a fascist Trump regime?

billie
billie
June 15, 2023 1:35 pm

Looks like Trumo’s first line of defence, a very powerful one, is the Clinton Sock drawer defence.

President Bill Clinton classified whatever he liked as whatever he liked because a President can do that. No one has ever challenged him on it apparantly.

To now try to charge Trump with the same behaviour and call it a crime, is against the US Constitution it may seem.

Some fascinating bunfights coming up I’m sure.

The Democrats though, will have a conga line of charges for all manner of frivilous accusations because the punishment is the process. The inticacies of US constitutional law and their many layered system, to be fair, is beyond the understanding of us in the peanut gallery in Australia.

The endless charges , in the minds of the Dems, will convince people Trump is no good I suspect.

It could also have the opposite effect, and add to the support for him, who knows how American’s think.

However, at the end of the day, who ever controls the voting, tends to control the voting outcome.

If it all turns to crap for the Dems, will they do something fresh and creative to Trump?

m0nty
m0nty
June 15, 2023 5:19 pm

The only bulldust here is your criticism of the defence.

You posted the Barnes stuff, I critiqued it. I posted the Reuters stuff, you avoided it. How about you address the points made in the Reuters piece instead of just pounding the table?

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
June 15, 2023 7:46 pm

A shameless partisan hack

This is not a phrase you should use, m0nty.

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