Everything about the Skripals/ Sturgess case smells to high heaven. It’s worth following the Dawn Sturgess inquiry currently. Overnight, the…
Open Thread – Wed 27 Dec 2023
- The more you gets the less you eats
- Open Thread – Weekend 23 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Thurs 21 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Mon 18 Nov 2024
- From darkness to the promise of light
Jordan Peterson – Why Trump Won the 2024 Election
As it is silly to demand evidence for repeated claims that still haven’t been produced in over a month any…
Good move.
Everything about the Skripals/ Sturgess case smells to high heaven. It’s worth following the Dawn Sturgess inquiry currently. Overnight, the…
Instead, we’ve got the modern obsession with long hair tumbling down a woman’s chest almost to her waist, as per Kate Middleton, aka Princess of Wales. TV presenters here and in the US all do that style, and on them it is mostly so fake. The two longer strands coming from around the back are clearly hair pieces, while the natural hair length consists of grown out fringe and then the naturally grown length. Once you get what that long hair consists of it seems as silly as the eighteenth century Perriwig. Ditch the switch, girls, and let your natural tresses roam if you must – and if you can.
thus is dumber that thinking Santa Claus and Saint Nicholas are different people.
“Since the beginning of the Gaza war, American troops in Iraq and Syria have been attacked at least 100 times, with a grand total of four responses, including yesterdays “necessary and proportionate strikes.”
Dozens of American servicemen have been injured, but the Biden junta is minimizing their injuries, claiming that until yesterday, all have returned to service. Never mind that some had traumatic brain injuries…the sort of injury with which NFL players are sidelined for weeks. And never mind that the only reason many more weren’t injured and possibly killed was the backwardness of the attackers and their weapons.
It used to be that attacking American military bases was a big deal, and resulted in things called “wars.” But the Biden junta and its handlers in Kalorama are too busy fellating the Iranians to manage much of a response. And make no mistake; these attacks are on orders from Iran”
The current Administration in the US really is the most foul excrement to have ever ruled a country. And I say Rule, because they certainly don’t govern.
Sorta hoping it was a parody but given Jesus was a Palestinian running rampant probably not.
Remember the foul piece of excrement in chief has been fouling the us for over fifty years. Shame shame on the shit bird state of Delaware.
Had to notice that most Israeli girls have very beautiful long hair, especially those idf girls, has to be natural.
Very feminine.
Especially given the multi coloured rat’s nests so favoured by the clemfordy types.
Arky.
Can o interest you in ” we are the barbarians, living in the ruins of imperial Rome and wondering why the aquaducts aren’t flowing anymore even though we are still voting for the water to flow” thesis?
Notice nobody in the media asked Mark “I won’t apologise for standing for the rule of law” Dreyfus about the legality of Daniel Duggan’s detention in a 2m X 4m cell at Lithgow at the behest of the US government?
Rosie,
that reminds me of a place I once worked. One of the women was, I think it was Croatian, can’t remember exactly, she spoke English, with an accent and her name was Rebecca. One of the other young women there, Anglo/Aussie, asks Rebecca why she has an English name. guuurh. I explained to her that “Rebecca” was an ancient name from Biblical times and earlier. The name had been around when the Brits were still wearing skins and living in caves.
Dumbfounded was too nice a term for her reaction. Threw the names Sara, Mary and several others into the conversation. So sad.
I’m not familiar with that one Roger. Our version of Lubyanka on the Potomac?
Shatterzzz:
I clicked on the link and seeing that I’m in download 56k prehistory times, by the time the photo appeared I was wondering why I was looking at a photo of 4 old geezers in director chairs.
Calling Jesus a “Palestinian” is the same as Holocaust denial.
..
Individual consumers have little power over where firms have decided over more than four decades to locate their factories.
It’s down to your own comfort level what you buy. It pisses me off personally if I can’t find an alternative to CCP products.
I don’t think I’m on my own there, I often chat with store owners at smaller retailers and they tell me it is something they hear from customers, and also they think of it themselves and wish things were otherwise.
No one can say they didn’t see some of this coming though. Manufacturers got themselves into a prisoner’s dilemma. The other fellow set up shop there and at some tipping point they all went. Primary producers had little choice but to follow where the market went.
Those who made the initial decisions are long gone.
Time is running out or perhaps has run out on reversing the process. The composition of the workforce, the education system and the participation rates have changed across the West. It took four decades to get here, is there the will to make changes today for improvements in decades time?
If there is any good news it is that people across different sectors now might compare notes and start to see the pattern.
..
Stop belly-aching.
I doubt you’ll get anybody to bet against you on that.
Brief summary courtesy Wiki, milt, courtesy the footnotes you can fill yourself in.
Thanks Roger.
Wife and I drove 700km up to the Gold Coast on Sunday to spend some time with our son and family over Christmas.
Wife and I drove 700km back home yesterday after the storm came through and knocked out the power, mobile coverage, internet, a few trees and a couple of exterior blinds. Son suggested we might like to go home as his supply of leftover ham, turkey, Christmas pudd and all the other things that go with them slowly started to warm up in his fridge and freezer.
Having driven about 1,400km in 3 days I can safely say, without fear of contradiction, that all Ford Ranger drivers are total knobs.
rafe has been pushing for this petition:
There have been 3225 signatures added.
Fvcking pathetic effort on behalf of Australians who want to have a say in this debacle.
It closes tomorrow.
There are NO excuses for not signing, you slack bastards.
Well this slack bastard was unaware of Rafe’s petition and has now signed it.
Just something about power blackouts.
I have about 800 liters of freezer capacity, and from habit living in the bush, when it gets down to 3/4 full, I add bottles of water or those plastic ladders of 10 litres of water to make up the space.
If the power goes off, the frozen water will keep a 600 liter box freezer frozen for about a week.
Just a tip that may not have occurred to some.
In fact the term “Palestine” is never used in the New Testament.
Its use with regard to Jesus is ahistorical, and is airbrushing Jews from history.
There have been 3225 signatures added.
Fvcking pathetic effort on behalf of Australians who want to have a say in this debacle.
It closes tomorrow.
There are NO excuses for not signing, you slack bastards.
1
Why abuse folks for not signing that they do not know exists, Winston. I signed the petition a while back, but if no one knows that it exists, how do they sign it.
Narrowly beaten by the Hilux for the honour of Australia’s most popular vehicle in 2023.
I can also attest that in any shopping centre car park Ford Ranger drivers will have to take at least 3 goes at parking their vehicle, leading to a line of traffic behind them.
Lizzie, he might marry that girl and he’s likely not avoiding you. Be nice, even if it hurts.
Petition signed.
OK I have signed the petition – not that I think about 3,500 signatures will attract even the slightest attention – but because I appreciate Rafe’s effort.
Not my Daughter in Law — she never tells she just chooses what she eats without making the host uncomfortable.
Thanks for the reminder, Winston. Done.
Signed also
The exception that proves the rule!
😀
Daily Mail.
I had signed the petition a while ago. It is a shame it hasn’t been seen by more people.
Zulu,
I had seen that article earlier today. Apparently she is a lesbian, but still craves wood. 😀
Sonja has always felt lonely but says her new relationship with the tree has filled a void, she says
Phrasing
Must give grandson his due; he’s saving for an overseas trip next month and might just have stayed close to a series of triple-time shifts as a bartender by having Christmas with his girlfriend’s olds, who live near where he works part-time.
Although we wondered if the spectre of family strife was going to keep our grandson from a family Christmas, a dislocated finger brought him home since he couldn’t lift the kegs properly in his p/t pub job & the company sent him home! He hasn’t lost any money since he will get sick pay. So, family got the pleasure of his company at Christmas.
Don’t worry, Lizzie – at their age the money is number one.
I dunno.
There are some weird confluences of streams of possibilities and events.
It seems Jason Statham will be starring in a new movie – The Beekeeper.
And yet, 10 years ago…
(Wait until 25 sec)
Poor old Budweiser cannot take a trick. 🙂
Clydesdale wagon accident at a US rodeo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjzY1ORN6YA
Horse lovers, hang in there till the end.
On the Jews and Christians should let Muslims Win thread at CL’s blog, Dick Ed case has asserted that Mary, Joseph and Jesus had no connection with Nazerath and lived on the Golan Heights after returning from Egypt.
He can’t resist being contrary.
Mother Lode,
that was a hoot!
Speaking of fashion, I have always been an admirer of Audrey Hepburn and after seeing Sabrina when I was a young girl wanted to wear hats, gloves and fitted suits when I started work — did too even though I’d get the “who does she think she is?” looks from some — I was me.
I get Elizaveta Barinova in my Instagram feed just gorgeous and wears everything very well.
JMH,
that was scary! Very glad it ended well.
Trolls gotta be trolls.
Mr Knows Everything is also bemoaning Milei’s election, and is yearning instead for even more socialist government in Argentina apparently, despite more than 70 years of dismal failure.
Yet he claims to have been a Liberal member for 30 thirty years.
oh Tinta!,
that woman is magical. 😀
Pogria:
JMH,
I was dismayed at the length of time it took handlers to unshackle the lead two although I supposes bits and pieces could have been fairly mangled.
I also reckon the team was stupidly too close to the fence.
JMH,
the handlers had to go slowly. Although Clydesdales are calm and don’t spook easily, that was a hell of a mess to untangle and keep horses and handlers safe. Job well done though.
Petition signed.
I see that idiot Leung has produced a piece of doggerel for Xmas which says Jesus was a Palestinian Jew. This from the man who got an award from Iran for an antisemitic cartoon. Words can’t express my contempt for that talentless hack.
Leunig!,
Laugh, I nearly choked.
https://www.rt.com/news/589720-rt-meddling-video-biden/
or
https://mf.b37mrtl.ru/files/2023.12/658b10cf2030272b38695b2d.mp4?download=1
JMH,
horses too close to the fence was my first thought. The arena also wasn’t big enough for an eight in hand.
A long time ago I read an article about the Calgary Stampede. From the start, it had been run out on the open plain. Crashes and accidents were relatively rare and deaths uncommon. Then, it was decided to turn it into a profitable spectator sport and it was held in an arena. Since then, the horse and human injuries and fatalities have risen greatly.
Salvatore, Iron Publican at 11:00 – Burqa and da bruvvas sending hospitality the way of Holden. What you get governing for the 8%.
Yes big cats and the Colosseum come to mind.
. Isn’t she though I really like to see her wearing those beautiful clothes with all the lovely accessories — when I was working from the early 70s until the mid-2000s I wore hats, gloves, berets teamed with appropriate apparel and always stiletto heels and big earrings because I was not well— I noticed that it was the men who really liked seeing the hats…. old-fashioned I know, but I’m an old-fashioned gel, I miss those days but in my present circumstance I’d say stilettos are now definitely a thing of the past.
i don’t know how ‘because I was not well’ appeared but ignore
Wonder how all those folk who donated the $28K to the Go-Fund-Me plea for the Oz thugby player killed in the Cook Islands feel now that the cause of death has been released …
Speed, alcohol and not wearing a helmet ……….!
And in more normal thugby news .. a Penrith player (Mitch Kenny) being looked into after a pix of him snorting “white” stuff doing the social media rounds …….
The boyz doin’ what the boyz do …… FFS!
Over at C.L’s, it isn’t Ed Case who is the malevolent troll, it is ‘Alfonso’, who I suspect is Numbers.
Ed Case is a nut Case.
The best thing about the cricket is seeing Waqar Younis, what a bowler, crazy motorbike rider as well.
Is that Bob Whittaker of Toowoomba, C.L.?
Not C.L., I mean Cassie!
Came back from the coast today, stopped for lunch, here’s a 15 yo boy with his mother and sister. He’s wearing fishnet stockings, short shorts, makeup and girly ringlet hairdo. Father not in attendance. Does mum let this happen if dad has gone as an appeasement. She looked a bit pissed when I looked and just shook my head.
I get a downtick for asking a simple question?
JMH,
horses too close to the fence was my first thought. The arena also wasn’t big enough for an eight in hand.
The arena was very small for a big rig, though I understand it was a misdirection from the handler. But the composure of those magnificent Clydies was wonderful. The first horse I ever rode was a gigantic Clydie – one of a pair (Ronnie & Molly (?)) that my uncle had on his farm to pull the hay cart. I was just 7 years old & it seemed like 20 feet from the ground.
Tinta, that young lady was gorgeous. Elegance doesn’t age.
Petition signed, fortunately, I’ve not been Catting much over the last few days.
She certainly is and so true elegance is captivating and everyone knows it when they see it. A bit like class really. Though we see so precious little of it these days.
A bit like this head-turner
And people who do crossfit.
“I miss those days but in my present circumstance I’d say stilettos are now definitely a thing of the past.”
I hear you Tinta.
I can’t even wear a boot with a Cuban heel. I would most probably break my neck if I wore a simple Kitten heel! Lol.
I have my memories though, and that is what counts. 😀
Tinta, I have seen the clip of that glorious young woman.
French women have innate style and wear clothes well, but Italian women have the sexy walk and leave every other woman adrift in their waves of sex appeal.
. Indeed and memories are grand
. Gina Lollobrigida and Sophia Loren come to mind — I put it down to the pasta!
Vicki:
We must then question the moron who allowed six in hand plus wagon to go ‘on parade’ in such a small arena. If you are correct about a misdirection from the driver, then that leaves questions as to whether Budweiser should continue with such promotional outings in such limited spaces. I’d be worried with regard to what else they are now stuffing up with the Clydesdale team/s.
A collection of videos showing biden is literally demented. But the issue is not this corrupt, treasonous pervert but the MSM which covers for the old creep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5T1x3zjEg
Anyone who mentions Numbers automatically gets a downtick. Observe.
Anyone who mentions Numbers automatically gets a downtick. Observe.
Numbers is a piece of shit; second only in retardness to dickless.
Then he must have a very loose rein!
tragic
Phoar!!! Phoar!!! said young Zulu Kilo! He’d come top of the class in English.
(H/T Bob Hudson, and “The Newcastle Song.)
from November 2022 evidence that hominids in today’s northern Israel were cooking fish 780,000 years ago.
Yes, yes, they were muslims.
JMH,
it was an eight in hand, even worse in such a small arena. That wagon could be pulled by a two horse team.
“Gina Lollobrigida and Sophia Loren come to mind — I put it down to the pasta!”
Definitely the pasta. And, let’s not forget THE most beautiful Italian actress, Monica Bellucci. sigh….
For shame! Don’t you know he was a schoolteacher?
https://rumble.com/v43fv73-moscow-metro-is-a-wee-bit-different-from-nyc-subways.html
Numbers is a piece of shit; second only in retardness to dickless.
For shame! Don’t you know he was a schoolteacher?
Case closed.
Rosie,
that can’t be right! Our Abos invented fire and cooking only 60,000 years ago. If the article is true, then our Abos have been around a lot longer. I mean, it’s obvious. They invented fire and cooking and the man who could turn himself into a crocodile, swam to Israel with a coal in his mouth to help spread this brilliant invention!
Interesting that a couple of figures from the ‘golden age’ were clearly not enarmoured of islam
a thread full of blasphemy
Pogria
Dec 27, 2023 4:35 PM
My mistake, it was eight in hand not six. Well, we saw two pull the thing off the arena after the disaster.
Well, we saw two pull the thing off the arena after the disaster.
The stupid wagon would have been empty, anyway. This was all for show. It went balls up because of driver incompetence without having contact with the lead pair.
JMH,
I suspect they placed a pair of inexperienced younger horses at the front for some unknown reason. The front pair are always very experienced, for obvious reasons, they steady the others behind. Younger, less experienced horses are usually in the middle with such a large team. The other pairs keep them steady and it is a heck of a lot harder to run if they are spooked.
Ladies, the ugliest woman on earth is still better looking than the best looking bloke. Its the way we are.
JMH,
apologies for being a pedant, four horses pulled the wagon out of the arena.
Re the Bud/Clydesdales, they needed Slim Pickens to give them lessons on the eight in hand.
A treat for sore eyes and a wonderful trip down memory lane, Tinta. I had style and dresses like that in the 50’s and early 60’s, before ‘education’ came upon me and I turned hippie. I was working in the fashionable arena of advertising copywriting and was soon paid enough to afford styles like these. Oh the gloves and bags and hats. And being young and slim and, for me, blonde and carefree. The swish of the petticoat walk we all did and the elegance of it all.
I have a friend, in her 70’s now, who turns up at all of our dance girls’ occasions, lunches, Melbourne Cup or special birthdays, looking marvellous. She never stints on style. She’s tall, with jet black hair, elegantly rake thin, rather rich in her beach view home, and wears some wonderful classically cut, outstandingly designed slimline suits or dresses and even the occasional shirt-waisted dress and white rope petticoats (ergo, the dress in red poplin the other day with a stunning cummerband belt). She knows exactly where to shop for what and has shoes to die for, occasionally with a handbag to match. Gloves as necessary. She definitely puts us all to shame, in another league altogether. Such old-world elegance, mostly long gone.
A lot of it is antique stuff, rather like that shown to me years ago in her ‘wardrobe rooms’ by my best good-time friend of yore, who married into Hollywood’s luxurious Bel-Air society. I visited her there with Hairy and our kids many years back; it was all bit too much for him, I suspect, as she and I disappeared into the upper reaches of her mansion to explore her sartorial treasures and discuss old times, reminiscing together of how we’d share clothes getting ready to go out from our slum bed-sits to Point Piper soirees. Good looking girls in ad agencies were invited to them. She and I shared secrets; neither of us were natural Eastern suburbs denizens, we didn’t have much education either. She was a boilermaker’s daughter, and I was from Mt. Druitt, enough said. But off we went with the confidence born of knowing heads would turn when we entered the room dressed to the nines.
Pogria Avatar
Pogria
Dec 27, 2023 5:02 PM
You would not be putting inexperienced horses at the front. No way. If you are wanting to experience young stuff, they would be most probably 6 or 8. Because the team seemed so composed throughout the event, I doubt there were any youngsters involved. Let’s face it calm Clydies or not, “trainees’ may well have gone spastic!
Someone asked where the timber collection is stored. In the garage on blocks. The “rosewood” I think may be rose mahogany, an Aussie hardwood.
The idea of giving a furniture restorer first dibs might be a good one, so thanks for that.
Lunch today was straight out of Hobbiton – varied, sumptuous and prolonged. No fireworks, though I would love to see a dragon fly over the Water and startle the lazy roos.
JMH,
whatever the reason, glad to see not one horse was hurt.
Calli
A local woodturning group might be interested in the timber.
Pogria
Dec 27, 2023 5:05 PM
🙂 🙂 Overdue appointment with Specsavers!
Mak Siccar
Dec 27, 2023 2:09 PM
Good result – 68 extra signatures since some slack bastards got their arses kicked.
🙂
JMH
😀 !
For Pogria:
Check this out – if you haven’t already seen it. It’s special.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pI8n4JEJXg
The “rosewood” I think may be rose mahogany, an Aussie hardwood
Rosewood was a common term – in Australia it was mainly for the stuff from New Guinea. Very few people knew how to identify wood i.e. end grain identification. Even the furniture makers.
Wood turners is a good idea if the timber is thick. Paneling and doors are too thin. But they are resourceful (glue it together)
Interestingly most timber, espec hardwood, was classified in Australia for its structural strength for form work. It took quite a while to see its other qualities.
Pogria
Dec 27, 2023 4:13 PM
I’m down to Cuban Heels these days – falling over while getting on and off escalators is just so uncool.
Just returned from a few days at my sister’s. My mother came up this afternoon, and my sister, my mother and me, together with the dogs, are sitting on her balcony talking passionately about current events, particularly Israel, then it becomes heated, then we start ranting about current events, then we start talking over each other about current events, and then we start accusing each other of talking over each other about current events, and then my poor long suffering brother in law, who’d been sitting trying to read surrounded by these noisy opinionated women finally stood up and said “I’ve had enough, why are you shouting? There is no need to shout and rant because you all agree on everything!”
To which we nodded in agreement! Sometimes you need a man around to calm mad ranting women!
What would Jong-iun do if it wasn’t peaceful?
apparently there was a ‘peaceful’ pro hamas rally in North Korea.
Saria Ratnam
Is she related to Samantha Ratnam Victorian mlc for the greens?
It looks like there’s an even split between the sad sacks and the Jollies.
You do realise I was taking the piss?
. Indeed Pogria saw her in Malena, a role made for her.
More a political prawn.
Didn’t pol pot put teenagers in charge of the killing fields?
And it’s all about the feeling.
I loved that Israeli Arab bailing up the New Zealand ignoramus claiming Israel practices apartheid and she said in her opinion they did.
As though it were merely a matter of opinion.
There is a parody account on twitter that explores the Israeli apartheid meme, in one she claims that in Israel muslim women have to pay for their groceries, I guess that one was hamas apartheid because hamas women don’t have to.
Saria Ratnam is a Melbourne high school student and writer who does volunteer work for several political and environmental organisations.
Little saria is a typical insulated brat whose mentality is concurrent with greta’s: oblivious to the fate they face through their own actions in destroying their society and only caring about their ego masquerading as virtue.
All confected nonsense, designed to milk money and generate and prolong fear.
Cheer up you silly girl! The world is your oyster but you are allowing yourself to be aged and hobbled before your time. Look closely at the adults who surround you – many…many of them are not your friends.
And they are jealous of your youth and vitality. Why do you think they want you miserable?
There really was a high point in Arabic civilisation, and it went downhill because of religious zealotry. There are lots of great Arabic poets, mathematicians, philosophers. All crushed by the power of faith. Or ignorance.
Yeah, remember it well. Strikes almost every day, highly unionized and highly protected labor, and quotas on imported goods allowed a privileged few to make decent money if they had enough to bid up quotas. Terrible selection of goods produced under protection (quotas and tariffs). In fact, it was the Liars Party that saw the writing on the wall as we were fast heading towards an Argentinian existence.
To go overseas and obtain foreign currency, one had to apply to the RBA for permission and explain the purpose of the trip.
Here’s what Juan Peron should explain: How would it help living standards if the state decided that, from one point in the future, scarce capital should be directed to the sectors that can only produce a rate of return on capital through protection and/or subsidies? How does directing scarce capital to those sectors increase well-being?
This is exactly the same stupid thing the state is doing to our energy supply. It’s a dumb strategy and can only be justified by someone supporting Peronism.
Whenever the ignoramus is asked to explain his argument, he runs off. He could show us how it’s done as he does have time on his hands and create a start up.
ZK2A:
Or selling herself on the street because mum died giving birth, and dad was an alcoholic miner who sold the brat to the local pimp for a dozen bottles of rotgut.
There was plenty of ideological badgering in the late 70s when I was at High School- Al Grassby, Carmel Niland, Paolo Totaro, Charles Perkins etc.. to tell us how awful we were. Ghastly people and TV, radio and ‘news’ papers where your only source of information.
JohnJJJ/Calli:
Woodturning with scraps of wood.
Just incredible stupidity. Government directed industry policy demanding capital seek an inadequate rate of return.
Heaven. Oh for those wonderful olden days, when the children would pla in the park all day and the rivers were flowing with chocolate.
Another drowning down the road today. Birubi, a patrolled beach.
It has to be asked…can any of our immigrants actually swim? It seems to be a constant in these tragic stories.
Jerzy Zubrzycki is another one that comes to mind
JMH,
that was absolutely glorious!!! The little one was almost stride for stride with mum. There was a great part where mum went into an extended trot and the little one had anticipated a simple canter. It only took her a few strides to realise her mistake which she then corrected.
So beautiful. I miss horses so much.
Thank you for the link.
Greta Thunberg is a horrible little Marxist twat who has recently revealed her virulent anti-Semitism.
She was almost certainly used as a tool by her parents (ironically she was born into a wealthy family, and is a millionaire herself many times over), but she has doubled down on her idiocy and activism since turning 18.
She is no role model.
Whining collectivist scumbags, Milt – you have a way too good memory.
Yes Rabz some things are better forgotten 🙂
The thing is that horrible marxist fug has been around for a long time.
It has to be asked…can any of our immigrants actually swim? It seems to be a constant in these tragic stories.
Can I answer? Very few, if any.
Greta Thunberg
I called out the sinister idiocy of Greta Thunberg from day one. She always reminded me of a good little Nazi because she is a good little Nazi. And this is why the Greens love her, because the Greens are our very own Nazi Party.
Yet we exist in such an age of staggering stupidity that there are “world leaders” who* take the barking mad li’l slag’s rantings seriously.
This is not good, Cats.
*Apparently
Just further to Jesus being “Palestinian”. As I said earlier, it is no different to Holocaust denial.
This morning I listened to an Israeli rabbi from a major Tel Aviv synagogue talk about this putrid description of Jesus being “Palestinian”. As he said, whilst we Jews do not believe in Jesus’s divinity, we do believe he was a rabbi and a scholar, born of a Jewish mother, raised a Jew and died a Jew.
Nostalgianomics
calli
Dec 27, 2023 6:08 PM
An ability to walk on water, a firm belief in Gods will, leaven with a dash of hysteria and tragedy strikes. every. bloody. time.
New Years eve, Manly District Hospital, 7 year old girl pool drowning. And the waiting room was going ballistic because unrelated patients had to wait to see a doc.
They shut up when the morgue trolley was rolled past with the girl covered by a sheet and followed by the priest, it became obvious why the docs were busy.
Yes the name Ratnam certainly rang a bell. What fascinates me about the modern left is their hatred of the middle and working classes. I suppose that’s why kings and princes are attracted to it.
The only one I recognise is Greta, who is a fatheaded little prat. If that’s the best you can do, you’re all hopeless.
Hideously uglee ol’ communist imbecile (BIRM) warns “era of gerbil broiling has arrived”.
Except when it doesn’t, like it didn’t today in Sydneystan.
My pleasure, Pogria.
I don’t think we should raise the question of dressage with that young one! The blurb states he was retained as an entire. Obviously, the genes were there.
I noticed something else too – all chicks.
Seems the young fellas have better things to do.
Benjamin Netanyahu’s 3 goals for his military campaign in Gaza.
Hamas must be destroyed, Gaza must be demilitarised, and Palestinian society must be deradicalised. These are the three prerequisites for peace between Israel and its Palestinian neighbours in Gaza.
First, Hamas, a key Iranian proxy, must be destroyed. The U.S., U.K., France, Germany and many other countries support Israel’s intention to demolish the terror group. To achieve that goal, its military capabilities must be dismantled and its political rule over Gaza must end. Hamas’s leaders have vowed to repeat the Oct. 7 massacre “again and again.” That is why their destruction is the only proportional response to prevent the repeat of such horrific atrocities. Anything less guarantees more war and more bloodshed.
In destroying Hamas, Israel will continue to act in full compliance with international law. This is especially challenging because an integral part of Hamas’s strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas places its terrorist infrastructure inside and underneath homes, hospitals, mosques, schools and other civilian sites, deliberately putting the Palestinian population at risk.
Israel does its best to minimise civilian casualties by dropping leaflets, sending text messages and using other means to warn Gazans to get out of harm’s way. Hamas by contrast does its utmost to keep Palestinians in harm’s way — often at gunpoint.
Unjustly blaming Israel for these casualties will only encourage Hamas and other terror organisations around the world to use human shields. To render this cruel and cynical strategy ineffective, the international community must place the blame for these casualties squarely on Hamas. It must recognise that Israel is fighting the bigger battle of the civilised war against barbarism.
Second, Gaza must be demilitarised. Israel must ensure that the territory is never again used as a base to attack it. Among other things, this will require establishing a temporary security zone on the perimeter of Gaza and an inspection mechanism on the border between Gaza and Egypt that meets Israel’s security needs and prevents smuggling of weapons into the territory.
The expectation that the Palestinian Authority will demilitarise Gaza is a pipe dream. It currently funds and glorifies terrorism in Judea and Samaria and educates Palestinian children to seek the destruction of Israel. Not surprisingly it has shown neither the capability nor the will to demilitarise Gaza. It failed to do so before Hamas booted it out of the territory in 2007, and it has failed to do so in the territories under its control today. For the foreseeable future Israel will have to retain overriding security responsibility over Gaza.
Third, Gaza will have to be deradicalised. Schools must teach children to cherish life rather than death, and imams must cease to preach for the murder of Jews. Palestinian civil society needs to be transformed so that its people support fighting terrorism rather than funding it.
That will likely require courageous and moral leadership. Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas can’t even bring himself to condemn the Oct. 7 atrocities. Several of his ministers deny that the murders and rapes happened or accuse Israel of perpetrating these horrific crimes against its own people. Another threatened that a similar attack would be carried out in Judea and Samaria.
Successful deradicalisation took place in Germany and Japan after the Allied victory in World War II. Today, both nations are great allies of the U.S. and promote peace, stability and prosperity in Europe and Asia.
More recently, since the 9/11 attacks, visionary Arab leaders in The Gulf have led efforts to deradicalise their societies and transform their countries. Israel has since forged the historic Abraham Accords and today enjoys peace agreements with six Arab states. Such a cultural transformation will be possible in Gaza only among Palestinians who don’t seek the destruction of Israel.
Once Hamas is destroyed, Gaza is demilitarised and Palestinian society begins a deradicalisation process, Gaza can be rebuilt and the prospects of a broader peace in the Middle East will become a reality.
Mr. Netanyahu is Israel’s prime minister.
The Wall St Journal
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/12/benjamin-netanyahus-3-goals-for-his-military-campaign-in-gaza.html
Cassie
We used to go to Sydney quite often, but these days not so much. We’d always have lunch at Bills in Woollahra and never disappointed. There’s something else there now I think.
We also went a few times to his restaurant in London, which was okay too. It was near the back/or side of Kings Cross station.
The point being made on twitter by an ex muslim is that Maimonides and possibly other contemporary scholars were name only muslims to avoid the Jizya (and many other adverse consequences of being non muslim) and in fact despised that religion of darkness and lies
Just as muslims are now claiming Moses and Christ as muslims, no reason to believe they haven’t been stealing valour since forever.
Grey Ranga 27/12 @ 7:55
Misses was a nurse – now office manager and marketing manager in da family business.
She caught up if a former work colleague who works in emergency theatre in a public hospital in th3 western suburbs of Adelaide.
She does nothing for four hours of the day.
Th3 hospital won’t even let them work in the wards or in other areas which need extra hands.
Then there is the pay – hyper Rates and extra for doing this and that. You want me to pick up a paper glider
Malala Yousafzai, Greta Thunberg, Chanel Contos”
I have zero time for Yousafzai who is a unapologetic Jew hater however she did survive being shot by the Taliban.
The other two are rich grifters and fraudsters. Contos is an eastern suburbs princess, ex-Kambala, who buddied up to Tame and Hoggins in 2021 to hog some publicity. She now styles herself as a ‘sexual consent activist’
I note all three have said nothing about the sexual violence of 7 October 2023, oh but that’s right, they were Jewish women and girls, so they don’t count.
What an idiotic thing to do. These people are frontline workers , vital to the smooth function of a nation state.
He actually promised to get rid of more than 50% of these bozos.
East Coast beaches can be treacherous. Make the Perth metro beaches look like a walk in the park. Growing up in Australia it is easy to forget how foreign swimming is to much of the world.
We used to go to Sydney quite often, but these days not so much. We’d always have lunch at Bills in Woollahra and never disappointed. There’s something else there now I think.”
Yep, it was always good. I used to queue to get into his noshery in Surry HIlls.
I think his death is sad, a loss. 54 years is way too young. He leaves behind a wife and children.
I wonder if insurance would pay out on this or whether the owners would be quietly disappeared because of the embarrassment to Mr Xi?
Watch: Chinese Rocket Booster Nearly Destroys House (27 Dec)
Got a ways to go to catch up with Elon, looks like. Still using the brute force approach, brutally. Maybe the Party could issue the population with very small umbrellas.
Those gas guzzlin’ conveyances, Cats! 🙂
I don’t recognise any of them. They are the useful idiots let loose on the useless morons who suck up their deceitful eructations. The globs don’t even understand what the the words “pure science” means and they have no idea how they are being used by ‘The Machine’.. I am so sick of the catastrophists spewing out their fake garbage. Right now, I am dealing with BoM fudging min. temps in my area. We gotta comply with the agenda, boys.
When things get bad pull out the big guns and activate the students.
/Mao
Doesn’t sound good.
The Thunberg family goes all the way back to Svante Arrhenius would you believe. The w*nkers are still carrying on with his BS premise that CO2 drives temps.
Eight years ago the below was posted on Catallaxy.
To my embarrassment I’ve lost track of who was the author.
Scanning today’s general discussion, it is reposted for those who may find it of interest.
(Not blockquoted, to avoid overloading the Hamsters)
Here it is:
Almost 35 years ago I began my apprenticeship in one of my countries largest engineering firms, an over 100 year old family concern. We manufactured car hoists, reduction gear boxes, self propelled irrigation equipment, mining equipment, pumps and rock crushers. We could handle huge production runs or one offs.
But it was all coming to an end.
I started in the drafting office on the upper floor. Row upon row of drafting tables. But where were all the draftsmen? There were only two old poms there, waiting for retirement. On the factory floor it was similar. Row upon row of lathes. Grinding room. Fitting shop. Massive boring machines and overhead cranes. But only one or two tradesmen in each department.
A closed shop, but by law we half dozen apprentices could not join the union.
Along the corridor were the offices. The owner was a nice man. An engineer. A gentleman. A third generation owner of a prestigious business that supplied equipment to farms and mines nationwide and beyond.
At sixteen I had no idea what any of this meant. But even I could see the place was going under. After my stint in the drafting office I was placed in the “auto shop”: automated lathes. Mechanically controlled Warner Swasey turret lathes, and now alongside them, the new computer controlled lathes and machining centres made by companies like Okuma. The place was depending on these to change its fortunes.
The tradesmen and older apprentices hated the auto shop. It “wasn’t real engineering” or something. They held it in deep suspicion and contempt.
I was fascinated by automation and loved the machinery. Bear in mind, at this age I had no knowledge of shearers and narrow combs or coal miners and their restrictions on the equipment used to bog out, or any of the myriad ways unions seek to limit productivity.
Looking back now I realise those people were at a turning point. Technology would make it possible to manufacture a thousand items a day instead of a few dozen. The auto shop was asking them to learn to program, to monitor tolerances and processes, and think in a completely different way. They baulked at the very idea. These were very skilled men who took great pride in their work.
They could have applied themselves to the new technology. The combination of their skills and knowledge, the company’s vast array of patented designs, and the new manufacturing technology would have been awesome. Or they could look at it as their enemy and replacement and rant and rail against it. Which they did.
Now they are all gone, long retired, not a few of them of them dead, I suppose. It was a long time ago. Most of the objects they made with pride are either rusting in paddocks or melted for scrap. In the end they left nothing worthwhile. That factory’s equipment, like so many others, is probably at work in China. My last job in the place was to help pack it all up into shipping containers. Their jobs are gone, their life’s work: nothing.
In the end I don’t blame them. Or the unions.
I blame employers. I blame the gutlessness to stand up to unions. To fight for it. To hold onto a 100 year old company and retain that production in the country. At least the unions fought for what they wanted.
In the 35 years since I have seen it time and time again. Along with all the bullshit and excuses. Manufacturing was “old technology”. The information age was the new thing. People making that argument did not understand that manufacturing was part of the information age.
Then the “Clever Country”. We were going to do all the difficult design work and Asian people would compliantly make what we told them to. Or something. Then: “Oh well, we don’t have a competitive advantage in manufacturing, lets concentrate on what we do well”. I have news for you: if you can’t make a go of manufacturing, when you already have the industrial base and they don’t, you ain’t in any shape to be better than anyone at anything.
And my favourite: “We don’t have the population”. The whole point of that time, just as we turned our backs on making stuff, you know, to fluff about with web design and installing solar panels instead, was that it was making it possible for a small number of highly skilled dudes using computer controlled machinery to manufacture that which had previously required a huge workforce.
I sometimes wonder if it is possible to calculate what was lost.
I see the same items made in China I used to help make. The same. Thirty five years later.
I don’t think they put the same effort into developing new items. It is like with cars. Japanese engines were based on old British designs. If you take a Toyota engine apart it is basically just an upsized Austin 1300 with an overhead cam. What new things did the Japanese bring to cars? What they brought was the ability to make cars without industrial disputes and disruption. But to the actual product? It remains essentially unchanged.
We must have missed out on an incalculable amount of improvements and new product while firms were occupied in first appeasing unions and taking government largess, then pulling the plug and selling everyone out and gifting the third world an industrial base.
I have endured hearing Labor politicians pat themselves on the back that they have gotten us away from manufacturing into “higher skilled” work.
This was their mindset: Working in a factory is bad. No one should have to endure it.
These people are airheads, every one. They’re incapable of rational thought, and bereft of any moral sense.
Consequently, nobody should give half a damn what their opinions are.
As is another Pakistani, or rather (unfortunately for us) ex-Pakistani, Mehreen Faruqi.
Whatever that is.
Leftist code for something sinister?
My immediate thought when I looked at this story a short time ago.
Family of eight rescued at Town Beach in Port Macquarie (Ncl local news, 27 Dec)
No description in the story of who the family of eight were, but there aren’t many families of eight these days with excessive confidence in their swimming ability.
I think it means she won’t have sex with me until after I have got signed forms from her, and signed her forms for me.
I don’t think I’ll bother.
Not many going the other way.
I had to look up Chanel Contos. She’s in favour of promoting education on ‘informed consent’. To remove the violence from masculinity etc. So a real downer on men. Greta is an obvious loon, and Malala is the best of the bunch, wanting ‘education’, especially for Muslim girls. Better watch out for what sort of education though. She’s not in with a good lot and transgenderism is still running riot in schools.
This deluded young woman ‘writer’ can’t see what her ‘protesting’ does in terms of support for terrorism, nor what calling a halt to Israel’s determination to rid the world of Hamas would do to Israel’s whole future should she and her ilk be successful. Debate the issues? Only from her perspective, not with any really informed debate.
B minus, little darling. Your case is stereotypical and lacks depth of research.
Nothing original there. Gaining attention is not the same as contributing to solutions.
Or, I should add, you fail to correctly outline what the issues and problems might be, which should be done before you even attempt to offer solutions. Are some of your ‘problems’ even real ones?
The one sector able to take a risk with unionized labor is mining because the outsized potential returns outweigh the risk. Try that sort of risk in manufacturing where the returns aren’t there with our current labor market. There’s a term that was used once. It’s referred to captured capital which is a reference to unions holding invested capital in plant and machinery to ransom. You’d have to have the brain the size of a peanut to try that in Australia.
Firms had limited capacity to fight because their capital is finite.
Current labor laws this loser government is trying on is to forcibly unionize non-union labor even in small business (below 20 employees) through the introduction of a version of pattern bargaining. You’d have to have rocks in your skull to try on a major manufacturing operation here.
Another point is that occasionally we see nostalgic comments how we lost car making in Australia. We didn’t lose car making as such. When Abbott turned off the subsidy spigot the makers took off like jackrabbits. No one forced them to depart.
Plenty of Australians in the drowning stats. Pissed young men over represented, as with car crashes.
Nor would I.
But then the fact Contos is a leftist activist is an immediate turnoff.
I must be living in a vacuum. I’ve recognize Greta Thunderthighs. Who the hell are the other two?
Thunderthighs has a repulsive personality.
Good re-post, Sal.
The closing (active, not the passive closure) of timber mills and coal towns have been given a sprinkle of Fabian fairy dust with the promise of a growth in tourism…. like parking turbines on farmland, I sense an ongoing promise that the sunny uplands of a de-industrilized future will have our sins of capitalism forgiven and our indigenous rangers embraced by a global homo group hug, where travellers bring gold and laud us for, you know, just being here.
It’s no coincidence that China is held up as a co stantly growing source of tourism manna. “Our stories” are curated by deep pink film commissions and revolutionarily renovated museums.
I put this excellent speech up on the last thread, but it is well worth repeating.
Not everyone reads through whole threads.
We live in such a f*cked up world, Cats, that I didn’t even realise such a phenomenon existed, until yesterday.
Presumably, because they’re nayzees, according to the ALPBC.
Perhaps Pol Dot could further enlighten us … 🙂
Chuckle. A girl called Chanel who went to Kambala.
One of the downtrodden classes then?
You couldn’t make these people up.
Thunderthighs has a repulsive personality.”
Yep, and whilst I always knew her to be a repulsive and repugnant little Nazi, since 7 October she’s outed herself. She’d be right at home visiting Adolf at the Berchtesgaden in 1943.
I have no idea who the third one is, but the obvious difference between Malala and Greta is … RISK. Malala has risked her life for her advocacy, whereas Greta, from what little I know of her (happy to be proven incorrect), seems not to have risked anything measurable (income, personal safety, business health, etc.). She operates from within the protections of the very society she seeks to destroy, and has access to copious resources (media, celebrities, etc.) which cost her nothing.
Once upon a time, we used to admire feats of speed, endurance, exploration of the literal unknown; these pushed our physical and psychological human boundaries. We saw in those who took these extraordinary risks, the person we wished ourselves to be (if only …).
*Sigh* This is too depressing a thought to even finish writing.
Winston Smith Avatar
Winston Smith
Dec 27, 2023 5:25 PM
Make that + 1. (I too was unaware)
Sorry to hear that Malala is a Jew-hater. Comes with the Pakistani territory I guess. She did get badly worked over by the Taliban, and her dad stood by her well during her recovery. She should stick to improving life for Afghani women rather than be taken up with Western woke preoccupations. And learn more Jewish history, for perspective.
She might actually be admirable then.
Best analysis I have come across. Comments very on point as well.
Chuckle. A girl called Chanel who went to Kambala.
One of the downtrodden classes then?
You couldn’t make these people up.
You don’t have to unfortunately
Shorten-Xavier
Marles-Geelong Grammar
Giles & Dreyfus-Scotch
. I certainly don’t.
Hairpieces:
What’s the protocol if you are unfortunate enough to be seated at an event, possibly with very expensive seats, and someone in front of you has a piled up hair creation, as big or bigger than a hat such that you can’t see the stage?
Those who were out and about in the 1960s, what did you do about “big hair” folks who were in front of you at events?
Asking for a friend ..
Consequently, nobody should give half a damn what their opinions are.
the legacy meja pump these horrible people up- meja anti heros
Good advice, thanks Dot. Might have been my woke second son having a go at me too over politics chez us. This wretched political woke world of today does split families so much. Grandson has always been a more thoughtful type, but I do worry that Newtown High School (loony teacher central) put a lot of woke nonsense into him and he may be resenting us (and our capacity for largesse) now. Hope not. We love him dearly and will always hope he ends up with a happy life (and wife) when the time comes. 🙂
I will be a grown-up grandma and wait and see. 🙂
rabz
Pretty sure she was an adult entertainer LARPing as the ultimate trad woife.
Burqa-St Pedophiles*
*Along with the Fer’sons … 😡
“calli
Dec 27, 2023 6:31 PM
I noticed something else too – all chicks.
Seems the young fellas have better things to do.”
Calli,
until the noughties, young fellas would tag along with the girl activists because the opportunity for free sex was pretty good. Plus in earlier years, a lot of the girl activists were quite pretty in an unwashed, hippie way.
The current crop of girl activists are either hideously ugly or, if they are reasonably attractive, their internal ugliness glows out of them like nuclear waste. Complete turnoff either way.
So Gen Z must widen our idea of what a protest is. We need to practise multifaceted activism
Reminds me of a bloke I went to uni with in the early 80s. He spent a lot of time moaning that “there wasn’t anything to protest about anymore”. In other words just wanted to be a professional ratbag and moaner for a while.
A lot of young people are like that – until they get a mortgage.
Pogria:
You are on land? Could you not think about adopting or fostering?
I know what it’s like. You think; what can I manage or not manage!
Decent sitting trot – re the last video I linked. Well done that rider..
Oh, no! Next you’ll be telling me that this li’l goil is not my next potential future woife, either! 😕
Some of those Wiggles groupies are outrageous!
Seriously, that’s a tough one, billie. Disrespectful people are one of my triggers, so obviously I need a lead and a muzzle when in public.
Sorry.
With lipstick?
Man Wearing Hijab and Lipstick Insists: ‘I am Muslim. Not a Fake Woman.’ (26 Dec)
This guy’s definitely a big chance for a Darwin Award.
My protocol is the stage whisper that I can’t see because of the person with the huge hairdo, which can either drive them to exchange seats with their partner, or drive Hairy to exchange seats with me. That’s first base. If no luck there (i.e. not with Hairy, as at the ballet) and hairdo has no morals, I make a nuisance of myself pressing on the back of their seat and leaning over it at both edges to ‘see’ around them. They often find that objectionable and move seats or at least lean constantly to one side, affording me a better view.
Often kind people elsewhere, tall ones, will offer assistance by an exchange of seats.
A problem aired is a problem shared; that’s my motto. No shrinking-down violets.
Holy baby jesus, I must be tired. Posted previous and faceplanted the keyboard for forty minutes. I’m meant to be tidying up. Best christmas here in a long time, no strife, grown-up neices and nephews and their significant others were wonderful company, extra extended stay by my brother in law, without the dripfeed inherited trauma of the parents-in-law has deepened our bond and mutual distrust of the command class. Could well be the last show with the parents-in-law… I think we’re at peace.
You’d go Full Milei on their house sized hairpieces … 🙂
@ Top Ender:
Porsche vs Henschel tank turrets:
https://tankmuseum.org/article/turrets
Post WW2 Henschel made quite a name for themselves building locomotives for the new “German Federal Railways”, among others. Pre war, they were exporting some serious steam-locomotives all over the world, including to Brazil and China.
They were rather busy during the Second Great Unpleasantness, including knocking out some serious combat aircraft, No “one-trick-pony” this company. .
calli at high noon
I can do cedar and cypress.
But that’s it.
Well, Canadian women caught short on tampons and still having to buy them will know now that a quick trip to the mens will see them through.
They will disappear like hot cakes, showing the program was a much needed success.
Christmas weather manifest in the SW of WA has been that semi-reliable but always brief rare halcyon stretch of sunny days and still nights, after the mozzies have been subsumed by the food chain. Beach, booze, lawn games, sitting up till tw or three under the shallow summer moon with barely enough breeze to rustle the scrabble papers. Dodged for a while that constant feature of being parked on the corner of a continent between two oceans, that is, wind. 6AM snorkelling off cape Naturaliste yesterday was unbelievable, glassy clarity, with just one random seven-wave set to rattle me up a bit. For the duration of the dopey Nick Cave film it was a singeing southerly, i sincerely hope it sunk the whole project. Back to blowy blue sky now, I’m off to pick up the tinsel before it all joins the wrack.
And then there’s the signing you have to do for sex. Worse than a mortgage.
“Paris Has Been CONQUERED” – Claim Islamists In France
And then there’s the signing you have to do for sex. Worse than a mortgage.”
Yes, although in the case of Bruce Lehrmann, he would be well advised to insist on a signed form.
A story about old things that people have been discussing today.-
My husband’s Scots maternal grandparents migrated from Fife to the Hunter in 1903 as newlyweds (mining industry engineering family) and she brought with her the household wealth of her own mother, including fine linens hand-embroidered, Stuart crystal and a complete Royal Doulton tea service, a glory box from the 1880s.
My husband’s mother died when he was age 13 in 1958, and his father kept all of it boxed up until he himself died in 1999. Whereupon I, as daughter-in-law, was left to sort through it all for my husband, the only child of this old family. Neither of us had known it existed.
What a treasure trove. Fortunately, I am from a family of girls and women who were taught all of the old textile arts by our Irish-descended mothers, aunts and grandmothers, knitting, hand sewing, embroidery, crochet, lace-making, so I knew what a treasure this was.though all coffee-taint and needing some Napisan and Woolwash to restore..
I am in my 60s now, my sisters are younger by a few steps and stairs, we can all still do these fine artisanal crafts, but never of the quality contained in the boxes from my husband’s mother and grandmother. At least we knew how to revive and keep them.
Every now and then at Christmas I bring out the full linens and set the table for 12. We didn’t this year, we had Thai Prawn Salad with the kids out in the courtyard under the umbrella because the BOM got the forecast wrong and it was sunny and humid before the massive evening thunderstorm.
But the traditional family Christmases with the150yo Scots linens and the Stuart crystal and the Royal Doulton in our 100yo home on the Merewether mining estate by the beach are a wonderful link back to a time of fine things.
We often wonder what’s to become of fine things. He’s an artist, I’m a writer, we have a house of books and art and fine things, and offspring who understand and appreciate.
But what will become of our Polynesian fishing hooks from the 19thC or our Trobriand Islands caricature fish carvings, or my collection of Czech crystal intaglio perfume bottles by Bohemian Jewish glass artists who perished under Hitler?
JMH,
yes, I have land. Good land it is too. Rich red Basalt soil that will grow anything. The main problem stopping me from having a horse is, no yards of any kind. Even if I agisted or adopted an old horse that just needs love and care, I need somewhere to be able to secure a beastie if I want to feed, ride, treat and simply check up on. My days of chasing horses and ponies around paddocks are long over.
I plan to have yards built next year, then, if I can ride, I will get an old trooper, if I can’t get myself in the saddle anymore, I will get a miniature to drive in harness. I still have
all my gear, including a little jogger and harness that I used when I had my little Corey. Still have all my saddles, bridles, headstall, leads and grooming gear.
If I can’t get into the the little jogger, I will agist or foster, but I need somewhere to secure the horse as I mentioned earlier.