if there British roots are anything like Aston Martin’s, send them over’ere
Open Thread – Wed 17 Jan 2024
- The more you gets the less you eats
- Open Thread – Weekend 23 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Thurs 21 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Mon 18 Nov 2024
- From darkness to the promise of light
how do you know so much about this?
Calling Dr Cat What is the effect of tube diameter and wall stiffness on home blood pressure monitors? Quick search…
Temperatures in Palestine are increasing faster than the global average Lots of exploding bombs adding to the heat load…
Even Putin can be persuaded. With the right incentives.
Trump next level:
No American President has ever told truth like this.
Speech that calls for violence is never acceptable. Nor is speech that denigrates a group with the obvious intent of dehumanising them (such as saying they descend from pigs and apes) acceptable.
Err, yes.
Except the Californian company engaged to film Top Gun airborne action broke all of those sequences down into minute sections and carefully planned and briefed every one of them. The spliced footage no doubt looks hair-raising and chaotic, but a ten second sequence was probably put together from many hours of recording.
I’ll bet if the cameraman or director called for an ad-hoc manoeuvre “on the fly” (so to speak) to get a better shot it would have drawn a firm “Negative. Let’s talk about that in the next briefing session”.
Chris at 1:43.
Did you see the wreckage?
No-one scored a donation out of that.
Woolworths to fly Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags outside stores by 2025, chain’s Reconciliation Action Plan reveals
That will be the last straw for me. I have basically already changed to main shop at IGA, but have been picking up a few missed items at Woollies, which is closer for a quick shop. That will stop, even at some inconvenience.
Perhaps she should take the opportunity to ask ordinary Palestinians what they think of that.
Until there is vast majority support for it in that constituency it’s a non-starter.
That’s a much larger “impediment to peace” than the settlements.
Melei has two months remaining before Obiden has him – eh hum – neutralised. WEF authorisation has been issued.
Milei is 53 so I doubt. Did the Doomlord’s father drop his trousers in an Agrentinian stopover? Same father didn’t mothers maybe?
I had a look at the Doomlord’s profile on Linkedin. The light is shining very brightly of his head. Milei and Sinc must of got their hair genes from their mothers side of the tree.
Yes, but I want Kneel to ponder the question, Lizzie.
I might help by referring him to Popper’s paradox of tolerance.
As I said, the current plan is to upgrade the Tasman bridge, which includes 3.5 m pathways on each side.
Sure but how does that establish the report was bogus? We know that while some major shipping lines had diverted around the Cape others had continued through the Red Sea. You could see that on the live mapsof shipping. Increasing traffic around the Cape, reduced traffic in the Red Sea. That indicates not only that premiums had not gone high enough to make the Cape trip viable, but that shipping lines also calculated that in the circumstance there was little risk they would be targeted.
I had to replace my licence.
I cleared a few hours, psyched myself up to bad mannered arrogance, grabbed a book, and stormed the licence shop.
It took seven minutes.
Bloody Government, they can’t even f*ck you around properly any more.
Noice. Creative.
My last Qld driver’s Licence renewal took all of two minutes including new photo.
That will be $192. Now I know how sheep feel in the shearing shed after shearing.
I’ve seen deep fake clips. The tech just keeps getting better. I have to say the lady with Winston on the computer was pretty. No filter was needed.
Blokes masquerading as women via tech. FMD.
—-
Serpentza:
China is now Making Fake Women
Corey Gil-Shuster’s You Tube channel is insightful.
And disturbing.
Fire. Chef’s kiss.
Often.
Eyrie
Jan 18, 2024 2:13 PM
My last Qld driver’s Licence renewal took all of two minutes including new photo.
That will be $192. Now I know how sheep feel in the shearing shed after shearing.
—–
$192 bucks? Effin hell.
“Apparently not, given events in NSW recently where police tolerated public calls to “kill the Jews.”
This is a serious question…there is no longer a cultural consensus about not engaging in public speech which was once deemed unacceptable, such as calls to kill members of a particular ethnic or religious group.
Are we now to tolerate such speech?”
In the legal sense, and where it does NOT result in actual violence, then as deplorable as I find such comments to be, yes. Having said that, equal calls against Muslims (again, that do not result in actual violence) MUST also be tolerated.
And that is where it “breaks” – because the DPP is more than happy to prosecute “Islamaphobia” while ignoring anti-semitism. I don’t know how we fix that, given the political nature of the DPP in this regard (and more than a few other such cases of discrimination), Voting them out won’t work, because uniparty. So all we can do is non-violent civil disobedience, which is hard to organise at scale for people who reason to prevail.
Not that long back there was quite some outrage when the new ALP govt raised the fee for a Qld driving licence to $26 for 5 years.
“We need Joh back” was pretty hard to find fault with.
The licence to be employed as a bar or bottleshop supervisor in Qld (Liquor Approved Manager) is valid for 5 yrs, fee: $597 and is not valid unless you are also carrying on your person a Responsible Management of Licenced Venues certificate, cost $395 valid for 3 yrs. Fines for non-compliance are in the thousands of dollars.
Both are a one or two day course, each & every time they are renewed.
Note: This is for the staff on duty, not for the pub manager or licencee.
$192 bucks? Effin hell.
It was for 5 years but I still think excessive for keeping your name and details on a database for 5 years.
Can we borrow Milei when Argentina doesn’t need him anymore?
#1 rolls inverted, then #2 resumes formation alongside for filming.
Isn’t this Maverick in the first Top Gun ?
…and Hot Shots!
Sancho & Knuckle up fred.
Windies seemed to have worked Marsh out – placing 3rd slip in close. Can’t remember seeing that before when he’s batted.
More about ‘Reconciliation Action Plans’ here.
Milei’s speech was indeed striking. I wonder, though, what he makes of self-proclaimed ‘tariff man’ Trump.
Knuckle Dragger:
“Lookatme, Lookatme, Lookatme, How dare you look at me!”
The Streisand effect.
OK…see Popper’s paradox of tolerance.
Then imagine where this will end if we don’t apply it, because the group* who will take advantage of our tolerance is very intolerant.
(There will be individual exceptions, of course; the problem is they are easily sidelined though group pressure in a sub-culture that does not have a long history of developing and respecting individual rights.)
The thing that struck me was the orcs ability to mobilise. One girl objects to a gang of youths calling them filthy names and suddenly they have fifty violent filthymouthed rapists on site to beat up those who object.
What do decent people have to answer this?
How have the Australian authorities protected Australian women?
Winter is coming
@
Salvatore, Iron Publican
Jan 18, 2024 2:24 PM
I had some involvement in Tourism transport that involved Liquor Licensing. It was a nightmare of bureaucracy. That said not all of the punters made a Lawless libertine system look preferable , or even possible. I saw some horror bad drinking and it wasnt big biffy blokes with tatts. They tend to self regulate.
Anyways … just a preamble to my main point … In Vietnam the idea of requiring any sort of permission to serve alcohol just meets with blank stares ??? What …
But I have been in the Saigon equivalent of Northbridge (WA) only the population of young folks …mebbe they drink a bit ? .. no one say yes or no … but not pissed and mouthy dangerous.
They don’t need the tyrannical Communist Gubbermint to legislate and tax to make them behave like honorable people.
Grey Ranga:
These are the very same people who get in the express lane of 8 items or less, then carry on like a pork chop when they get told to go to the next line because they have twelve.
Bruce O’Nuke:
“Old men in a hurry”. A recipe for disaster – especially Iran. They want to be the ones who cause the conflagration that ushers in the arrival of the 12th Imam. It’s their turn, Goddammit!
Young Joseph having a big first test.
Big last wicket partnership and now 4 fer.
Free speech is a convenient short-hand for ‘people are entitled to pursue the truth in their communications.’ It’s not unconditional. People do not have a right to tell lies, to spread calumnies, etc. This is going to be clear in most cases, and justiciable in the margins.
@ dover0beach
Jan 18, 2024 2:43 PM
One of the few reasons I lurk here is to hear your good judgment , learned access to counterfactuals, and good grace.
You already know the Devils’ Advocate view.
The rulers will determine what is true …. and Why shouldnt a bloke that is just plain wrong get to have his say? However Truthless his viewpoint might be?
Surely the whole point of Free Speech is that people who are wrong get to speak up and are challenged?
But you already know this …
Take Care.
Dunno Kneel. Whether or not actual violence occurs shouldn’t necessarily be the benchmark (or trigger, if you will). I think it should be more aimed around the intent of the language used, and by whom.
As one example – there have been commenters here, on this august journal of record that have opined that Gaza and Iran be turned into glass car parks. Now, whether or not the people with that capability – Israel and/or the US – take that course of action is immaterial because commenters here have no influence on the people making those decisions. I wouldn’t classify that as hate speech.
In contrast – the bloke running his trap inside the mosque is, in my view, a different bag of cats. He is a) the local figurehead of a religion that directly espouses that type of conduct according to its scripture, and b) preaching to a devout congregation that is directly and demonstrably predisposed to those activities – which is the killing of unbelievers, and particularly Jews.
He has undeniable influence on the people he’s preaching to, and that is the difference.
Whether or not all those people ultimately go out and take his advice is irrelevant. He is a person of influence, who is using that influence to guide people into a course of action against another cohort of people in this country, and which has already occurred in this wide brown land.
That is hate speech, and it’s also incitement according to legislation in every State and Territory. It may also be worth noting that incitement to murder carries the same penalty for murder itself.
JC:
Here you go.
Supply your own vaseline.
Careful with the crikkit posts Toad.
You’ll enrage RacerX. You know how he gets.
Experience taught me a few things. One is to listen to your gut, no matter how good something sounds on paper. The second is that you’re generally better off sticking with what you know. And the third is that sometimes your best investments are the ones you don’t make.
– Donald Trump
Me.
amortiser
Jan 18, 2024 12:41 PM
I’m happy to accept the clarification. The partisan stacking of the High Court has been a disaster for the Constitution and the people it is meant to protect.
It means the Constitution has been devalued by the very people who are supposed to hold it inviolate, which means in turn that the people must find a new one that is worth something. And the only way now is by destroying the system that protects the worthless Constitution.
Well, if that’s the only option, history shows that is what will happen.
@Knuckle Dragger
Jan 18, 2024 2:53 PM
But there shows the problem. Where I live it is Pro Palli but no one is actually calling for the extermination of Isreal. I dont know what they think but I can guess.
What you gonna do ? Send in the Rozzers?
Even people like me who just repeat what I read on other forums (no endorsement ) get called “Hitler”.
There is a big risk in the “So what you are saying is ? … ” Line of reasoning.
Let me clarify …. I say .. “this is what other people are thinking” … I DO NOT tacitly agree with such perspectives, just by pointing out that they exist.
But that such viewpoints exist is something we all need to be aware of.
Then think for yourself, and come up with your own analysis.
Adolf.
Yes, two recessives reinforcing each other?
SNAP!!!
Pretty much my initial thoughts. Currently delving into the past.
But with so many antecedents in the ground, so much “Victorian” privacy, such poor and inaccurate medical record keeping, so much anecdotal evidence corrupted by personal axe grinding…fmd.
Trust Labor, sure can ………!
The data shows 106,600 fewer full-time jobs existed in December when compared to November,
Faced 26 balls.
Four were edged to the very same spot.
@ Knuckle Dragger
Jan 18, 2024 2:53 PM
Sure I have my own analysis and dont pretend otherwise. I just dont share it. What I am more interested in is the perspectives of you folk. I listen and learn.
Many antisemitic concepts have been embedded in our culture for centuries, so are not always easily identified as such. Living alongside Islam is recent, and co-incided with news reports of terrorist acts, extreme misogyny, etc, but that co-incided with ideas that we shouldn’t be racist or denigrate other cultures, so they get off scott free.
I also.
Sobering to read.
What stands out is: At some point we’re going to have to take on the weirdo beardos.
All we’re doing is postponing that date.
On one hand I don’t have a clue about what I repeat like a parrot
And on the other hand . . . actually, I still don’t know but I allow myself to pretend I know.
KD, what you’re saying is that the more influential someone’s public voice is, the more it should be restrained by law. You’re saying that Cohenite should be able to propose ‘nuking Gaza’ but that Dean on Sky or that Dutton at a conference shouldn’t be allowed to consider such a proposal publicly. That the local imam shouldn’t but the Habibi should. Not sure this is a reasonable proposal.
@ Salvatore, Iron Publican
Jan 18, 2024 3:15 PM
Indeed now here is where I will venture an opinion.
Viz Cronulla .. I surf ..
It was a huge mistake during the conflict in Lebanon to take in as “refugees” these insane hillbillies. The Lebs didnt want them so we wound up with them and all thier vices and anti social nastiness.
But water under the bridge… Only push back we seem to have is not buying drugs from them …. Or at all
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Jan 18, 2024 7:49 AM
Mizaris, re that odd cluster of diseases in one family.
As Winston says, look for some environmental causation creating a cluster beyond this family, or even within the family due to diet or housing; need to seek exposures that would create immune deficiency, such as radiation. Do the various medicos have any explanations, given that all seem to be immune deficient presentations and two have Crohns. Biological pathways?
May also be wise to consult a geneticist, to see if they can throw any light.
Gilas – any ideas?
Just saw this while catching up through the thread, also read Mizaris’ post.
Although radiation exposure may be a co-factor, it doesn’t explain the Crohn’s, the Hashimoto’s or the Graves.
My first thought, as others have already mentioned, was that this is a family expressing an autoimmune cluster gene, often referred to as a Thyro-gastric cluster of tumours and autoimmune diseases, such as Hashimoto’s and Graves.
Other manifestations may include gastric dysfunction (gastritis) resulting in Vit-B12 deficiency and subsequent pernicious anemia, medullary (not anaplastic or papillary) thyroid cancers, neurofibromatosis (with cafe-au-lait spots), adrenal and other endocrine-gland tumours.
Crohn’s would be an unusual manifestation, but once the immune system’s self-regulatory mechanisms are deranged, anything can happen.
A question for Mizaris: what was the thyroid tumour histology?
@ Katzenjammer
Jan 18, 2024 3:18 PM
You make my point for me …. “So what you are saying is …? “
Remember the Ferdinand and Isabella solution.
I paraphrase you to show how dumb it is and you agree.
That sounds completely reasonable.
@ Katzenjammer
You mean Archduke Franz Ferdinand ? History is so hard to keep up with … Just one damn thing after another …
Democrats have already decided who is going to run.
They’ve nobbled the Dem primaries.
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1747066577013678089
You’re saying that Cohenite should be able to propose ‘nuking Gaza’
I only ever meant that in the biblical sense. As Amichai Eliyahu did.
Nuking iran on the other hand…..
Trust Labor, sure can ………! LOL!
https://ibb.co/dW8zBPB
You know how he gets
Roger that.
Turtlrhead,
You’ve fattened Areff’s cat up for the next 100 liters of bolognese sauce. Nice.
Has the cardio team (as you call them) said anything about your massive weight gains.
Lizzie:
Not acceptable, but it is legal.
@ cohenite
Jan 18, 2024 3:27 PM
You can propose what ever you like and I am delighted to see you doing so.
You can propose what ever you like
My proposals only manifest my ineffectuality. All my proposals to head prefect for instance, have fallen on deaf ears. He’s such a brute.
@cohenite
Jan 18, 2024 3:27 PM
From my perspective the “nuke ’em all” Zbigniew Brzezinski way of making sure that our Rules Based Order is preserved .
Well .. not working out great. ?
duncanm, they’d already nobbled the primaries with Biden the thief in Chief. No democrates wanted him, he was polling so badly yet still got the nomination. They already had to have the voting machines fixed.
@ cohenite
We are not “dipping a lid” to any School Prefects… School is out …
Say what you like .. This is why we are here.
No spanking rulers … no bare knuckles…
F*** I hated school
You might consider offering a dowry. Or a bride price, as cultural enrichment may dictate.
If it threatens violence it is not legal. You can’t go around threatening violence against people, especially if you are being recorded on a ‘carriage medium’. The cops can move in. I know, because they did so once against my bipolar son sounding off during a psychotic episode, naming individuals. Maybe it was the naming that was the issue? But naming a category of people (Jews) would surely also apply?
Essentially yes, but it also determined by the audience as well as the person’s ability to directly influence that audience.
A local imam can certainly influence one, or a series of low-tech (knife, vehicle or small arm) killings within their local area.
Blockquote fail.
Second last para is mine. Blaming Steve Smith for that one.
Have to say, trying to follow events between Iran and Pakistan has been rather interesting overnight.
First, we don’t really know what he’s referring to. Is he referring to freight or the ships themselves? Secondly, insurance rates would’ve tightened considerably since the mass murder attack (Oct 7th, so the fact that US and UK shipping companies are being denied insurance is neither here nor there in terms of the treatment and behavior of others.
Essentially, the European banks own the shipping business (principally, French, Dutch, Norwegian, and Danish banks). The debt-to-equity ratio of the business is an unbelievable 90:1. That’s 90 units of debt to one unit of equity. Because of the restrictive covenants on the loan agreements, it’s the banks who are now dictating terms to the shipping companies. The majority of those firms run like that. and the banks are in the business of removing risk from the table when there’s trouble. We don’t exactly know the real story behind those who are still using the Suez, as there could be a number of reasons. Shipping is one of the most fascinating businesses in the world, as the players are maniac gamblers who really know how to manage not to fall into proper default the second they take out a loan.
I would ponder a couple of reasons.
There are smaller shippers who could be taking the risk with freight rates going through the roof and paying their crews over and above normal wages to take a risk. Possibly, it’s a rickety ship and uninsured.
Some of the owners could have paid off the hootie tooties to get through.
Some shipping lines, and likely the smaller ones,.
By the way, I mentioned The Shipping Man is fictional, and I misspoke. It’s autobiographical with name changes, and the stories and characters are real. There’s a Norwegian shipping tycoon in the book who’s a real character. He’s a shipping tycoon who’s broke, but he really isn’t. The financing and the way the banks treat the debt are just incredible. It appears to operate on promises to pay down a daisy chain, and no one actually appears to own the ships.
Lastly, you don’t appear to be coping.
Shamar Joseph. 5/94 on debut.
Please let him be another Malcolm Marshall or Curtly Ambrose.
There has to be a level at which it moves from general idiocy to an offence. That level cannot be too low or we would have to have speech police everywhere.
And compounding the offence with regard to particular time, place, level of amplification and presence of others who might either be incited, or threatened.
This afternoon I felt tired and not interested in doing much, have had a difficult time post-anaesthesia since Monday, allergy to throat spray, wearing me down with sore ribs from sneezing. Settling down now, but here is something to watch that is surprisingly pleasing but totally mindless, just an excellent way to pass an hour doing nowt.
It’s a severely matted little pooch being dematted by a specialist dog groomer. One happy little pooch at the end of it.
Interesting reading.
But then you’re back to whether or not violence could plausibly arise from those words. My point here is that speech that can be construed as incitement to violence is neither a right for the person without influence nor for the person with influence.
or incites other to violence. “Gas the Jews” from someone with no gas won’t end in violence, but as an instruction to strangers, it could.
Wow, I’m so impressed with this new found robust commitment to and defence of free speech by the progressive left, particularly by the likes of Lattosh and co…
From The Oz…
Sacked radio host Antoinette Lattouf’s unlawful termination claim against the ABC remains unresolved after a mediation hearing on Thursday, with the journalist vowing to continue her fight against “racism”, and to defend her right to “free speech”.
Lattouf claims she was unlawfully sacked on December 20 as a fill-in radio host for ABC Sydney due to the expression of political opinions, and because of her race.
The matter was heard in the Fair Work Commission but after the 90-minute conciliation failed to reach a resolution, Lattouf spoke of her determination to fight for “truth-telling in journalism”.
“I won’t stop. I will fight as long as I need to,” Lattouf said in a statement.
“It’s about free speech. It’s about racism. It’s about the importance of truth telling in journalism. It’s about the need for a strong, representative and independent ABC.”
Anyone recall Lattosh defending the free speech of Israel Folau, Mark Latham, Margaret Court, Alan Jones, Ross Cameron, Craig Kelly, Bettina Arndt and so on?
Nah, didn’t think so.
You’ve got to admire the chutzpah of the left and the likes of Lattosh, they have chutzpah in spades.
If you’re asking what has he exactly referred to you’re in no position to say that the report was bogus.
I’ll get to the rest later, part from this:
You are correct.
This is where it gets interesting.
To me, the out of control gangs at Cronulla at that time were very young men.
Now they are in their late thirties or forties.
The question is, after all this time are they ‘weird beard’ radicalised Muslims sending all they can raise to terrorists, or drug-dealing criminals, or ordinary decent citizens whose kids are ordinary decent teenage citizens and happen to be Muslim?
Are we still facing those gangs beating up people who object to their abuse?
And will the ruling class of Australia continue to sell out ordinary Australians for their smug drug, self-righteousness?
Took the dog for a quick walk during the tea break.
Missed the young blokes 5th then turned the TV back on to see I’ve just missed Hazlewood get his 5th.
Capt’n Climate will be getting annoyed only having 4.
And WHOA! Head’s done a Boonie!
Of course you can,because if he doesn’t make a clear distinction, or even if it’s both, he has no freaking idea what he’s talking about and should be dismissed.
I’m here to help. 🙂
Good to see that public communications of incitement to violence are considered verbotten. Perhaps we will see less incitements to “nuke” countries or turn them into “glass” here in future.
“Yes” – to all.
This is an allergy, not even a proper cold. But I did a PCR test just to be sure Covid hasn’t snuck in, and its negative. So I’m still going out tonight. Some Panadol Xtra, the one with lotsa caffeine, will fix it. Best thing so far was an antihistamine tab last nite, but I’ve only go the ones that make you drowsy. Keep that ‘for later’. 🙂
I have been dealing with Telstra all afternoon over my dead father’s phone account.
It would have been easier to close the thing and simply port the number to another operator.
I have almost lost the will to live myself.
“Good to see that public communications of incitement to violence are considered verbotten. Perhaps we will see less incitements to “nuke” countries or turn them into “glass” here in future.
Sanctimonious rubbish. There is zero comparison.
I’ve never really taken these seriously here. Just an expression of exasperation and recognition of the possiblity – heaven forfend it ever was real. Dr. Strangelove was a fable. So I take it are similar fantasies here.
However, at the back of all realpolitik is the knowledge of nuclear armageddon, which the world has avoided since 1945. Let’s keep hoping that is kept front of mind in Iran with some sanity there about the red button. Otherwise things could go MAD quickly.
We is the operative word because the authorities won’t. It is the 18C issue. Thanks Tony! Channel 7 led a campaign against Scientology that had an impact. The media often goes after cults. Comedians have great fun with various looney tune outfits.
We need to express our displeasure at a religion that at its core demands a theocracy. The alphabet people should be screaming outrage at that religion and so should anyone who openly supports their cause.
We don’t need to express hatred but must express contempt or better, pity for people who embrace that religion. Better because contempt reinforces group cohesion but contempt is much more fun. Christianity is about tolerance towards outsiders, Islam is about domination of outsiders. It is fundamentally incompatible with our society.
Lets hope that all nuclear-enabled countries in ME are thinking of MAD, not being mad.
Well, there’s some good news!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/16/third-of-uk-teenagers-believe-climate-change-exaggerated-report-shows
In relation to free speech and criminality the uneven application of laws is the issue.You had the HRC hounding Bill Leake over a cartoon and sldo those students over going in the lab.Not criminality stuff but costly and disturbing.
In the UK we have seen a woman charged with praying in her head and oeople charged for misgendering.
I am sure if one of our clergy urged killing of all Muslims he or she would be charged post haste.
Offer payments to those who will renounce their Australian citizenship (if they have it), and leave with a clear, written, promise, with financial penalties attached, never to return. Set a time limit on acceptance of the proposal.
A sum adequate to provide a moderate lifestyle in their original sh1tholistan, paid annually for five years. This would almost certainly be less than they currently receive via social security payments while living here. See the frequent comments from shatterzzz about the proportion of locals where he lives who have been on the Disability (Rorters) Pension since arriving.
And completely cease immigration from all the various sh1tholistans around the world.
Hazlewood having a day out 3 for nought. 7 for the match.
Capt’n Climate will take him off in a minute
So “Gas the XXX” is a terrible thing and must never be uttered anywhere by anyone, while “glass country YYYY” or “nuke ZZZZ” is ok?
The tricky thing about free speech and moderation of content is that it applies to people we like and dislike in equal measure.
I suspect Imran Khan could provide some pertinent insights.
Hmm, lets go to my news feed from May last year (2023):
Mmm kay.
Hard to see where preaching “Kill Jews One by One” would slip through that net.
Sheikh Goatrootah would be well advised to remain in NSW with his talk of Jew killing.
Wouldn’t he?
Doesn’t the issue revolve around intent and incitement?
In other words, is the speech serious or hyperbolic?
Of course, class enemies will always see their foe’s speech as seriously meant (put her in a sack and dump her at sea) and their friends’ as metaphorical (gas the Jews).
I’d be careful about all this. I suspect it will be used against normies while the nutters go scot free.
She has the right to speak freely. She does NOT have the right to demand the use of a taxpayer funded microphone to push her personal opinions on the nation.
They can say “gas the Jews” and news should broadcast reports of it, and dispute any opinions that attempt to refute it occurred. The historical associations of the phrase right after the most malicious Pogrom since Jews were gassed makes it very newsworthy to identify those who call on that historical precedent.
In comparison, no-one here has the equipment to nuke or glass any town or country – it’s obviously just a metaphorical emotional outburst.
Gawd, that awful nanny who used to be on TV is here.
That is not acceptable.
This is where we differ from the US in our political culture. Under the First Amendment, insulting people is not a crime. Nor should it be, and didn’t used to be here until people like Lizzie with sensitive feelz began to run the place,
Directly inciting violence (‘gas the Jews’ and so on) seems to have popular support as being a crime, although I am not convinced that it should be. It plays straight into the ‘words are weapons’ ideology of the Left – and guess who gets to decide? The Imam gets a pass, while opponents of compulsory COVID vaccination got belted in many different ways.
So, bad luck if you find things that people say to be offensive, or not acceptable 😉 , and please let us know whether you agree with Gillian Triggs that things said around the kitchen table are a significant worry that should be addressed.
Great point. Any laws allowing for moderation or even prosecution of content can/will be mis-used. And Hate Speech for me might be Just Joking for you …
My point was centred on whether the speaker was serious. Do they have the capacity to do the deed? Do those they bark at have that capacity? Or even the desire or incentive to obey?
Alan Jones yapping about sugar sacks and helicopters was letting off steam. Telling a crowd to behead the infidel and handing out machetes (or indicating where they may be found, or knowing full well that the audience is armed) is a different story.
In other words, is the speech serious or hyperbolic?
Correct, which Kamala fails to distinguish.
There is no “net .. in the sense of a high wire act” .. there are no Rozzers that can be sent in to militate on your behalf on hair splitting philosophical cogitations as regards Free Speech …
Oh It is illegal !! … Oh Gosh and Oh golly … But so what ?
Salvatore, Iron Publican
Jan 18, 2024 3:15 PM
…and shortening our odds of winning.
Iran has the capability of building a nuke – or several dirty nukes.
If it has one, the West might just call its bluff and risk a major city for nuking the top 6 cities in Iran.
If it has 6, and demands a Muslim Voice in GB, The US, German, France, Spain, and Canada, what will the reply be?
Yes I’ve raised this point multiple times, and nobody has an answer. But we know what it would be, wouldn’t we?
Our Political caste would cave and accept Islamic Supremacy while proclaiming to a servile media ‘Peace in Our Time”. Not having read or understood history, they would then be propped against the nearest wall, still not having a clue of what was coming next.
Well, well, all the cocksmen are out today.
When they are not berating women for not having enough children, stealing their money in divorces and generally being unappreciative of their beerguts, they are ignoring them completely in celebrating a fantasy illegitimate birth with an invisible mother, (maybe an air hostess?) who was left with the consequences.
What a man! What a hero!
Sinc is a family man, and would not thank you for your adolescent fantasies about him.
BTW, male baldness goes down the male line.
yeah … so I can say all these hateful things above since I have no ways of making the declared goals (glass/gas/nuke) real and it’s only a metaphorical emotional outburst?
I’m not aware that Lizzie runs the place, I’m not aware that Lizzie has ever professed any desire to run the place.
It is Dover who runs the place.
JC
Jan 18, 2024 3:31 PM
Winston Smith
Jan 18, 2024 2:55 PM
What massive weight gains?
But you do have ways of carrying out the “hateful things”.
You may not have a gas chamber, but you do have a car, or a kitchen knife. You won’t have a nuke, but you might be able to get your hands on the ingredients for a bomb.
There are good batsmen. There are old batsmen. There are no good old batsmen.
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Jan 18, 2024 3:53 PM
Lizzie, it must be legal or the police would arrest the people doing it…
Aha! I think I see the problem…
🙂
Context. Following the day of the worst Pogrom against Jews since Jews were gassed, in consort with the Islamic supremist slaughterers, local Muslims screamed “gas the Jews” and followed it up with swastika graffiti and threatening rallies and car convoys into suburbs where Jews live. IT has been much more than a single instance of some isolated person suddenly deciding to say “gas the Jews”. “Gas the Jews” and “Khaybar, Khaybar” are rallying calls to wage warfare and murder Jews.
Yes, they can call it, and it should be reported in that context so everyone know exactly what they intend to do if they could execute it.
That makes the bar for moderating content even lower i.e. any act that could possibly be enacted by the person posting the hateful text. End result of applying a “could happen” rule would be the end of free speech.
Somehow we need a consistent approach that enables free-ish speech while shutting down the real nutters.
Tricky.
Bing Bong, Queanbeyan Cow making a mess in isle 5. Shit everywhere. Gumboots on special till we get the mess cleaned up.
Aisle 5
The proof that the threat is real and achievable is that the object of the threat is afraid.
Not pseudo-fear, but the real thing. So…they take extra precautions in places where they are vulnerable, they avoid certain places where they once went freely, they experience fear when certain types of people approach them.
This is real intimidation and must be stopped. It isn’t pretend stuff.
I fantasise about organising a convoy, made up of hundreds of cars, to drive from Sydney’s east all the way out to the following Sydney suburbs, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Auburn, Bankstown and so on. Our cars would be emblazoned with Israeli flags and we’d sing “Hatikvah” from loudspeakers. I fantasise about going and standing, with hundreds of other Jews, outside a mosque and we’d taunt them. I want those people to feel intimidated, I want them to feel scared and I want them to feel threatened.
But here’s the thing..
Firstly, the NSWaffen Police would stop us. All of a sudden, their ‘monitoring’ of certain situations would cease.
Secondly, I, and the all the other Jews I know would not do such a thing, not because we don’t fantasise about it, but because we know it would not be the right thing to do.
I can just imagine the mighty warriors of Allah, the fearless soldiers of Islam, home, crouching under the bed, whining that the Jews are “picking on Mooslimes again…”
johanna
Things said in a private place (around the kitchen table, in a private club with access restrictions, in a church or mosque, where it is reasonable to assume that few other than the faithful will be present) should be freely spoken.
The problem comes when those private conversations are made public by either the speaker or one of the select individuals present. The one who makes the statements in a public place then should be the one in trouble, rather than the original speaker, unless it was his/her/xer clear wish for the statements to become public.
(Reuters) – Russian President Vladimir Putin, running for a new six-year term in an election that his opponents say is a parody of democracy, said on Tuesday that past U.S. elections had been rigged by postal voting.
“In the United States, previous elections were falsified through postal voting … they bought ballots for $10, filled them out, and threw them into mailboxes without any supervision from observers, and that’s it,” Putin said, without providing evidence.
I actually think that Putin is right. My recollection is that Obama and his team made postal votes central to his campaign. His campaigners focussed on those voters who rarely, if ever, cast a formal vote at booths. Vast teams “helped” such people fill out a postal vote and posted it for them. The scope for fraud is obvious.
That ethical/moral call is shared by your group, others might have different standards and views e.g. an Israeli flag flying from a car might trigger some people while a Palestinian one will do the same for others.
Free speech applies to those we like & those we don’t like – if it is to be consistent.
If it were subject to legislation it would require precise definitions, and permissions and exceptions. That’s the problem with legislated speech and rights. Without legislation we can more freely make assessments and decide appropriate action based on individual instances in their context. The purpose of “gas the Jews” and all the follow ons (eg Christmas carols) are meant as direct threats, and are Islamic supremist invasions of public spaces.
Glossing over that is like ignoring dynamic marks in a music score. It turns all relevant criteria into meaningless sludge.
@ Cassie of Sydney
Jan 18, 2024 5:07 PM
~snip~
“It is Dover who runs the place.”
No it isnt quite like that .. Dover has an eye to what is going on .. He calmly and respectfully states his case and wont get dragged into the hurly burly
If the contention is that Dover has any sort of exalted position it is because he has earned it …. by being demonstrably right … forward seeing .. in his scholarship and his grace.
Not acceptable, but it is legal.
If it threatens violence it is not legal. You can’t go around threatening violence against people, especially if you are being recorded on a ‘carriage medium’.
Lizzie, I recall reading in the MSM that NSW Labor government had investigated the criminality involved in the ranting in the mosque & their advice was that it didn’t fall within the parameters of the relevant laws.
I am very sceptical of this. I would like to hear from impartial and expert legal authorities.
dover0beach
Jan 18, 2024 3:57 PM
Have to say, trying to follow events between Iran and Pakistan has been rather interesting overnight.
I agree, Dover. I had to quickly look for info. It seems that Pakistan harbours some Iranian groups hostile to the current regime in Iran. But why now? Very tempting to suspect covert support from western govt(s) to distract Iran’s attention from support to Hamas, Hezbollah & other ratbags.
Windies gone in crickit.
What I hope is they are bowled out with a lead of 10 or 20, and Cryon De Telli gets rissoled for not many.
Bear – Cate McGregor almost was selected to play for Australia at age 60. I wonder what her secret was, and whether she needed to wear a box when batting?
KD
And who gets to decide? People like Lizzie, allegedly conservative, who think it’s a bit distasteful? Not very nice, not acceptable? Yukky, let’s ban it?
Let alone the hard line leftists who will shut it down in a heartbeat.
C’mon, man! 🙂
Cate McGregor almost was selected to play for Australia at age 60. I wonder what her secret was, and whether she needed to wear a box when batting?
Havn’t heard anything of Cate for quite some time. I really liked her/him. A great cricket commentator – & damn good political commentator as well.
It should be legal. I certainly consider it highly desirable that loonies should out themselves. When I hear that a religious leader has proclaimed that Jews are descended from pigs and apes, I definitely want to know which religion he’s a leader of. And I want everyone else to know, too. Then, when we start deporting the adherents of that religion, everyone will understand why.
Cassie at 4:19.
Latoush and her lawyer are confusing the right of free speech with demands that she be given a platform on their ABC to spew her bile.
Vicki
Jan 18, 2024 5:34 PM
My recollection is that Obama and his team made postal votes central to his campaign. His campaigners focussed on those voters who rarely, if ever, cast a formal vote at booths. Vast teams “helped” such people fill out a postal vote and posted it for them. The scope for fraud is obvious.
Don’t imagine it’s any different here. In a past life I had a staff member who had worked previously for a certain state Liars premier’s dept (not Andrews, one of his predecessors). She told of low level clerical staff being sent out to nursing homes and similar institutions to “assist” voters to exert their democratic responsibilities by helping them fill in postal votes. For voters not able to express a voting intention you can guess how the papers were filled in.
Speaking of the enthusiasm for “Slava Ukraine” .. has the love lost it first bloom ?
And even when Elinsky pushed in the sort of proponent Green Tee would have thought might have endeared Him to the West ..
Sarah Ashton-Cirillo
Kill Gonzalo !!!
Cassie of Sydney
Jan 18, 2024 5:27 PM
I fantasise about organising a convoy, made up of hundreds of cars, to drive from Sydney’s east all the way out to the following Sydney suburbs, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Auburn, Bankstown and so on. Our cars would be emblazoned with Israeli flags and we’d sing “Hatikvah” from loudspeakers.
It’d be OK if the convoy consisted of armoured cars and was accompanied by armed militia. Otherwise you might not get out alive after what the NSW gestapo would no doubt describe as a “terrible random accident”.
Havn’t heard anything of Cate for quite some time. I really liked her/him. A great cricket commentator – & damn good political commentator as well.
From wiki:
What has happened to Kate McGregor?
It is reported that she uses drug therapy, has high levels of oestrogen and no longer produces testosterone. In December 2018, McGregor was dumped as an ABC cricket commentator, something which she described as having “unravelled” her life.
So, becoming a woman ravelled her life.
Always was, always will be a MAN.
A CommitTee of Teh PeoPle.
Hang on. Wait, wait.
Speaking of unravelling:
Fani Willis’ Case Is So Tainted By Self-Dealing and Impropriety That The Entire Case Must Be Dismissed Without Prejudice
I would have thought dismissed with prejudice would be more appropriate.
And:
Fulton County DA Fani Willis in Deep Trouble – Hearing as Early as February for Hiring her Lover to Prosecute Trump (Video)
Can you imagine how different the US, the West and the world would be with an honest, non-partisan media? The bastards should be nuked.
Bruce Reid would’ve made a good commentator but the sticky tape didn’t keep him together. 😛
Fani, having an affair with the “top gun” she’s employed to get Trump while taking love-in trips with him all across the globe should start a riot in 3, 2, 1….
Anybody??? Bueller?
And Hamas knew this was the time to strike … Afganistan … Huh Where ?
I am not saying any of this like I approve…
America started a war with Russia using Ukraine as a “Cat’s paw” … which for some bewildering reason they thought they might win … that baffling, but they did and two years later they hadn’t .
Coulldnt have seen that coming .. oh wait ..
Then inevitably discontents in the ME decided .. Now is the time to take Down the Great Satan …
I don’t approve but surely those who were watching could have seen it coming?
I’m still a fairly good batsman for my age.
Providing I’m facing a bowler of similar vintage.
Also to the folks that excoriated me .. Howling ” You will always be on the outside looking in ” .. I can see it that way too . I agree …
You people are interesting …
Hug each other .
Righto – back to hate speech.
There needs to be a clear difference between what is offensive, and what is hate speech because neither are clearly defined.
There are already laws against offensive speech, but those laws are restricted insofar as they must be committed in a public place. Therefore, and much to Gillian Triggs’ chagrin offensive speech around the kitchen table is a-OK.
Hate speech appears to be directed to that conducted not only in a public forum of some sort and specifically toward a particular group of people, but has to have actual intent that the acts contained in that speech – for example, ‘kill Juice wherever you find them’ be carried out.
so – ‘kill Juice wherever you find them’ on Facebook (a public forum) – sure, which is why that shit gets you banned.
‘kill Juice wherever you find them’ around the table – no.
‘kill Juice wherever you find them’ by an imam in a mosque (televised or not) to a group of people already devoted to a creed where this is acceptable, and where that person is clearly able to influence those people to carry that out – I think so.
The difference is the crossover between offensive and hate, and whatever it is it cannot be subjective.
@ Knuckle Dragger
Jan 18, 2024 6:40 PM
But all of this is so much pecksniffian conjecture… Let Us just say someone or some faction says something “Oh Gawd ” Unacccceptable ? .. What you gonna do ? Send in the Coppers?
There is a gap between intellectuals and social media comentators ..and what actually gets done ..
Of course it’s conjecture. It’s not on Hansard.
In the final analysis .. you pricks are asking Us to take up arms.. I wont ..
and whether she needed to wear a box when batting?
‘orrible looking bloke – shoulda stuck to cricket and leave the frocks alone
ZK2A #6:21
“Limitarians” already have a role model state, North Korea.
@ Knuckle Dragger
Jan 18, 2024 6:51 PM
Oh Hansard !! Well then !!
There should be no such thing as ‘hate speech ‘, and offensive speech should be free and unconstrained. How the hell do you expect people to learn and grow up if nobody is allowed to point out when they screw up?
Today is the 47th anniversary of the Granville Train Disaster.
Oh, sorry. You’re actually looking for The Furniture Shop.
It’s on the highway, just past the servo on the corner. Big, empty car park. You can’t miss it.
Harold Skimpole.
Dickens is replete with unfortunate characters.
And much and all as you folks belch on about “Slava Ukraine’ as described by the likes of Sarah Ashton-Cirillo … Aussie Taxpayers have coughed up near on a thousand Tax bucks … could have been spent at home … and you piss on about dastardly Lefties …
Poor People in Rich countries get taxed to send Money to Rich People in bankrupt corrupt mud holes … in the ground … and never forget .. ten percent for the big guy …
Thanks, Pogs.
And it’s been a stinking hot, humid day just like it was back in ‘77.
Areff nearby, if not at the scene itself. My brother in law was on the train. Rear carriage.
’77 was a great year! 😉
I’m unsure why mopeds aren’t more popular in cities. Maybe if they gave them the 90% unused bike lanes to use.
Matt Walsh
@MattWalshBlog
A few years ago the elites were telling us to wear masks and stay 6 feet apart. Now they’re bringing in a native woman to cough directly in their faces.
@ Knuckle Dragger
Jan 18, 2024 6:57 PM
And dont forget to tip the waitress… ~boom Tish~
Excellent piece in the Oz today (read at the coffee shop this morning) about the bad situation Woolworths have got themselves into. Can’t remember who wrote it.
The Greens want to pretty much nationalise them, controlling all their inputs and outputs.
Labor is running an inquiry with both barrels pointed at them about prices.
The Coalition is calling for a boycott because they have erased Australia Day.
Top Men!
Now we hear that they want to raise Aboriginal flags over their stores, no doubt due to their Indigenous Advisory Board. Whoever suggested the Board should be sacked.
Getting all of the Parliamentary parties lining up against you, in a rational universe, would call for at least the Chairman and probably the rest of the Board to resign.
Oh, well.
Hey Cronkite, did you read the opinion piece in Politico. Legal ghoul Smith’s case could blow up as a result of another case in front of the supremes.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/17/supreme-court-case-trump-prosecution-00135852
’77 was a great year!
A shit year. Collingwood lost the replay.
That was the train my one time FIL normally took to work. He’d passed some time the night before, catching up with a few mates from the old days, and was late for work that morning.
Grocers getting involved in thorny political issues was always apt to end very badly.
And Reconciliation Australia. whose website I link to earlier, appears to be some sort of race-based extortion operation picking on soft corporate targets.
Their ‘First Nations Advisory Board’, with five out of the eight members being of aboriginal descent.
Also, with Adam Goodes leading the panel, we’re going to enjoy/endure much more woke, virtue signalling.
Anyone who thinks my story is anywhere near over is sadly mistaken.
– Donald Trump
Comedy news (the Courier-Mail):
I would suggest a better adjective might be ‘ a sensational act of vigilantism’.
Ahahahaaa. Eshays, the wispy-moustache/bum bag/hoodie/red sneaker/hunt in packs crew are truly the chihuahuas of Scrote World. They will always pick a target they perceive to be weaker. Always.
Looks like they picked a slightly bigger dog this time.
The only concern is – of course – the media, whose definition of ‘young boys’ stretches from 6 foot 14 year olds to 5 foot 9 18 year olds.
Well done that man.
Crikey who turned up the air con down here. Been in jumpers all day. LOL people look at us strange with jumper, shorts & thongs till they see the Qld plates…
Headed down to Seymour today. Few sandbags still around and town was very busy. Otherwise only change since my last time here about 18 mnts ago is the TAFE isn’t flying the LGB flag anymore and looks like they have a large Aus day festival planned at Goulburn Park. Noice.
Roads no change in crapness apart from the Hume fwy we traversed for a bit, plenty of floor heave holes from where the road base has failed and is cratering causing usually the near side to ridge up. This freeway will need a full replacement soon, watch Allen try to shake money out of Albo for that one…
Lastly, FTA tv here is wall to wall animal lib/UN NGO/sick kids demands for donations or Vic gov ads. Even the other half has noted it. Uniting church at Axedale has some message on freeing refugees on it’s fence. Gebus what is happening down here? Country areas used to be free of this crap.
Tucker Carlson
@TuckerCarlson
TC Shorts: The Invasion
Britain to designate Hizb ut-Tahrir as a ‘terrorist’ group
A Common Virus Could Be Triggering MS — And We Might Finally Know How
The Mocker from the Oz.
Tickling the Tail of a Sleeping Dragon
Sez who?
EXCLUSIVE: CDC Drafted Alert for Myocarditis and COVID-19 Vaccines, but Never Sent It
Vivek: “We’re on the Cusp of a Revolution”
‘Bible of the Left’ runs ‘huge rant’ calling JK Rowling Britain’s nastiest novelist
You’re not in Queensland anymore, Rockdoctor.
Young fella ‘d better watch what he says or he’ll get himself locked up by the Demonrats for inciting insurrection.
No doubt Rosie or Cassie has already posted this, from the Free Beacon, but I think it worth repeating. (There are numerous examples other than what I have extracted below).
Gazan ‘Civilians’ Involved in Every Stage of Hamas Hostage Scheme, Freed Israelis Say.
One of the most significant lessons to be examined – when and if the situation is stabilised – is the success of the information (propaganda) campaign against Israel.
I don’t understand your question.
KD
Don’t be a “hate speech” surrender monkey.
Tie yourself up in knots about suble sub-exaples all you like, writing “hate speech” into legislation can only be about enforcing penalties for wrongthink.
Apropos of nothing:
Commonwealth Criminal Code: Guide for practitioners
11.4 Incitement
(1) A person who urges the commission of an offence is guilty of the offence of incitement.
(2) For the person to be guilty, the person must intend that the offence incited be committed.
(2A) [Omitted].
(3) A person may be found guilty even if committing the offence incited is impossible.
(4) Any defences, procedures, limitations or qualifying provisions that apply to an offence apply also to the offence of incitement in respect of that offence.
He’s hardly helped by people quoting only that first half of the sentence without the very next half of the sentence which was uttered in the same breath. (Click through to tucker to find out.)
For those wondering about corporate work suicide: any large company, ngo, uni etc which gets gubbermint funding is required to contractually agree to sign up to woke: if colesworth has a contract to supply its grim food to whatever shithole the gubbermint is subsidising, it will only get the Dilip Doshi if it agrees to reconciliation plans etc. see also sporting codes. It’s Tyranny.
For those wondering about corporate woke suicide: any large company, ngo, uni etc which gets gubbermint funding is required to contractually agree to sign up to woke: if colesworth has a contract to supply its grim food to whatever shithole the gubbermint is subsidising, it will only get the Dilip Doshi if it agrees to reconciliation plans etc. see also sporting codes. It’s Tyranny.
For those wondering about corporate woke suicide: any large company, ngo, uni etc which gets gubbermint funding is required to contractually agree to sign up to woke: if colesworth has a contract to supply its grim food to whoever the gubbermint is subsidising, it will only get the Dilip Doshi if it agrees to reconciliation plans etc. see also sporting codes. It’s Tyranny.
Multi posts! Worth reading three times!
wishing the mocker would mock the governments destruction of cheap reliable personal transport, due to “carbons”. So now we have monster trucks with 2 litres turbo motors and hybrids with limited longevity and expensive maintenance, and the fascist government is now enforcing Euro 6 and “low emission” fuel.
Diving cost and complexity and limiting market choice.
maybe Tim Blair could do a reveal.