This originated back in the old country, written by a Mountie, who was put on unpaid leave for not being vaxxed: RCMP member sent on unpaid leave writes this powerful letter you must read. Long, as it says at the link, but very powerful and dead on the mark. Here’s a bit to get you going.
Since most members make a goodbye email before they leave, I figured I should as well, despite the “special” circumstances around my departure. Anyways, my time here in the RCMP is up. For now. The low T wannabe tyrants in Ottawa have decided that I can no longer serve as a police officer because I refuse to tell them if I have submitted to their “vaccine” edict. I’ve served in the RCMP for 21 years and one of the first things I said to any person I ever arrested was “you don’t have to say anything to me.” Unfortunately, our government has told me that I have to tell them what’s in my body, and if the right drug is not inside me, I have to get it as condition of my continuing employment, human rights be damned. Why did I put vaccine in quotations above you ask? More on that later. Buckle up and tighten the straps on your government mandated shame muzzle, this goodbye email will likely ruffle some feathers.
My journey to this point of our dystopian, medical, apartheid state started like many of yours. Watching the television almost 2 years ago as reports started coming in of some strange virus out of Wuhan. I was a little concerned, but not much. You see, for the last 10 years of my life I had spent a lot of time as an amateur researcher of history and learned to my dismay that the official narrative of most events is usually a little suspect at best. Like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, or the January 6th “insurrection” in D.C., the examples are sadly numerous.
That’s how it starts. Go to the link to finish it off.
Good stuff MrKates. And it backs up what I have been trying to say. That the couf is a smokescreen while the real attack is on peoples free agency. It has succeeded so far but there is still a lot of resistance. Maybe not so much in Oz where we are sleepwalking our way up the slopes of Mt Stupid.
and right on cue mcgowan doubles down…………….
Great read. God bless the Corporal.
I note that Victoria has once again changed the rules because of the dire staff shortages in essential services and now allow those with close contacts tested positive to go to work.
With over one million Australians now having the virus, the entire narrative of vaccinations or not is rapidly unravelling. It’s becoming bleedingly obvious that the vaccines make no difference.
Great read.
In my experience most people consider science to be facts made by people smarter than you (that is ‘you’ meaning me).
It boils down to accepting authority – the authority of the fact makers, who are given the authority not through some process proving they are worthy, but because other people (often themselves not involved in science) have said they are authoritative.
The best one I got was ‘science is the body of scientific facts’, to which I relied that science was a method. Scientific facts change. The method does not. Anything called a scientific fact that had a flawed method is no longer a fact. And since they are hiding their methods I feel entitled to doubt their science.
I just watched what I think was the Victorian Transport Workers Union (TWU) rep complaining that the new rules for transport workers, allowing them to go back to work, was wrong. Transport workers, according to him, are apparently the greatest virus spreaders and that this will make things worse.
A truck driver mostly works on his own and pretty much stands away from others when the trucks are load/unloaded. This is in complete contrast to say a supermarket where hundreds/thousands of people come in contact with each other daily.
I still can’t figure out the ulterior motive of the TWU rep. Or is it just pure idiocy?
Depressing but great read.
The non-compliant (read: ideologically unsound) have been removed from the enforcement agencies, all around the western world. You know, the agencies with the power and the guns!
What 20 years of dodgy recruiting couldn’t fully achieve, has finally been accomplished in its entirety.
The warning bells of history are ringing.
“It boils down to accepting authority …”
The Royal Society – the oldest NGO science body – has the motto, roughly translated, as “Take no-ones word for it.”
Feynman, without doubt one of the 20th centuries greatest scientists, famously said “Science is the belief in the fallibility of experts”.
The Long March, together with its resulting general leftward drift of the entire public service, has created a reliance on “expert” opinion and their “authority” – “follow the science”, “trust the experts”, “I am the science” (good God!) et al.
No-one is allowed to question these people and their opinions – social media even censoring what are clearly highly qualified and “involved” scientists like McCulloch simply because what they say questions orthodoxy. Such actions are the epitome of anti-science authoritarianism.
We need more – much more! – questioning of the science by the media and politicians. In much the same way as we need more offense, not less. Robust debate made in good faith is what finds errors, and what creates trust that the system itself cares only for verifiable facts and working solutions.
Heterodoxy should always and ever be not just allowed but encouraged – the greatest driver of new science is not “Just as I thought and just as theory predicts”, but rather “That’s odd…” and “What if this assumption is not true?” And while, at any particular time, the most likely to be true is indeed the orthodoxy, such orthodoxy should always be required to answer to the questions of the heterodoxy – where they cannot provide facts and reproducible data to refute such questioning, we must accept that our information and theories are incomplete and the only acceptable response is “We don’t know, but most in the field think x because y”.
Two things I know for sure:
1) practical experience is highly valuable in avoiding stupid mistakes;
2) “fresh blood”, especially in highly specialised areas, and by virtue of requiring experts to re-organise their thoughts, is highly valuable in making improvements to any field.
Ignore these at your peril.
Dear Prof Kates
Meanwhile in Blighty, the ONS all-cause mortality data for England and Wales to week 52 of 2021 was released last Tuesday.
Deaths by age group since week 1 2020 are graphed here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/189200946@N04/51814700454/in/dateposted-public/
Traditionally mortality figures decline over Christmas and New Year due to reporting delays and appear in the first week of the new year – data for 2022 week 1 to Friday 7 January will be released next Tuesday. The following 2 weeks covering the normal peak winter deaths to around 21 January should prove very interesting.
Cumulative mortality graphs by age group show a significant increase in 2021 compared with 2020 for 0-44 and 45-64 year olds, the former age group is broken down further in other graphs. These increases may be due to late diagnosis and treatment of diseases such as cancer from April 2020 onwards.
DP
How did so many national leaders, parliaments, support services, media get conscripted into this? What’s really going on. Who’s running this?
Soros and his ilk.
Very very similar to the cult of climate.
The same players are pushing both too.
But what’s being done to gain almost universal conscription?
“Very very similar to the cult of climate”
Climate doesn’t seem as ostentatiously profitable as vaccines.
Money and power.
Together we wait for that avalanche of truth to roll down the mountain over government misinformation and media manipulation of the “data.”
“But what’s being done to gain almost universal conscription?”
I would posit that it is the Education Industrial Complex – from kindergarten to PhD thesis.
At every step, bowing to authority is required.
At every step, conformity creates success.
And every step is infected with rabid leftist dogma.
Facts and experience count for naught – only “goodthink” matters.
“Only 1984 boosters and you’ll be free!”
This recent paper by an eminent medical professor condemns government for its approach to the Corona virus.
A quote from the article:
Two years late, you finally realize that a respiratory virus cannot be defeated and that any such attempt is doomed to fail. You do not admit it, because you have admitted almost no mistake in the last two years, but in retrospect it is clear that you have failed miserably in almost all of your actions, and even the media is already having a hard time covering your shame.
https://swprs.org/professor-ehud-qimron-ministry-of-health-its-time-to-admit-failure/
Good observation with the world population and death rates. At the height of the panic the death rate still remained at .76% of the world population.
Hmmmm…
“Only 1984 boosters and you’ll be free!”
“Hmmmm…”
Or perhaps: “If you trust the government, you haven’t read history”.
Or even: “You changed from sheep to lab rats pretty quick…”
Yet another pissant attack on employer prerogatives. I assume Mr Kates has refused to observe any and all workplace requirements of his employer?
Even the most cursory exploration of the problems created in business by people who refuse to comply with reasonable conditions: authentic assessment of skills, reasonable expectations of behaviour, acceptance of management right to choose who they promote, health and safety requirements; would reveal that wankers with attitude get a very good hearing in this society.
In the case of the Mountie, he seems unaware that when we exercise our rights (in the case whether to say whether he is vaccinated) we occasionally have to accept it has a cost. But I’m personally surprised that this copper of 21 years has seen video of people smashing their way into the US Congress, openly proclaiming the intent to assault or possible hang elected representatives, “stock the steal” (election confirmation), bash police, smash windows and doors – and doesn’t see insurrection. A dictionary would say otherwise.
The international labour movement is under the control of the WEF alongside big business, government, media, etc.
People didn’t smash their way in, the doors were opened for them by the Capital Hill Police. And has anyone ever heard of an insurrection being carried out by a group of people armed with nothing but cell phones and taking photos of the building?
Go and Google 1996 Parliament House riot to see what is violent assault on government. Here’s a video in case you’re too lazy to search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW0yxPbZq40.
Who is ‘Living the Dream’. Not quite the same stink as Gargoolry.
You are an absolute lunatic and the main stream media are mocking you when they feed you their lies.
They were simply let in – go and find the videos of this yourself, like the ones of Joe Biden groping children. They are shocking, so prepare yourself.
(What’s the bet this moral pygmy won’t go looking for a couple of three minute long videos, but will spend 30 minutes writing snippy comment replies???)
“But I’m personally surprised that this copper of 21 years has seen video of people smashing their way into the US Congress, openly proclaiming the intent to assault or possible hang elected representatives, “stock the steal” (election confirmation), bash police, smash windows and doors – and doesn’t see insurrection. A dictionary would say otherwise.”
Hmm, I’m personally surprised that “Living the Dream” has ignored all that footage of what ensued from 2016 through to 2020 when the Democrats refused to accept the 2016 election result and urged followers to, as Hillary quaintly said, resist, resist, resist. And resist they did, on Inauguration Day in 2017, Washington was ablaze with violence and assaults on Trump’s supporters who were in DC to witness the inauguration. There were Antifa riots in Portland all through 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020…in fact Antifa still regularly riot in Portland…despite Sniffy Joe being president. And then of course we come to 2020…when BLM, Antifa, Democrat operatives and other assorted leftists rioted and torched cities across America….supposedly in response to the death of a sleazy thug on a Minneapolis street but the plain truth was that the death of that sleazy thug was simply a trigger for the Democrat party and its supporters to pull out the violence necessary to intimidate and scare Americans from reelecting Donald Trump. Oh and for four years the left urged and celebrated violence towards Republicans and the Trump administration….even geriatric Democrat congresswoman Maxine Walters publicly spruiked and celebrated the idea of assaulting Trump supporters and GOP politicians (why, she was even filmed saying it). So we saw Steve Scalise shot playing baseball (he’s lucky to be alive), Rand Paul was assaulted on his front garden (he still bears the injuries), men and women who worked for the Trump presidency threatened in restaurants. I don’t know…maybe others assist me here? Is it just me or do others agree that those who “openly proclaimed intent from 2016 onwards to assault or possibly hang elected representatives, to “stock the steal from 2016” (election confirmation), to bash police, to smash windows and doors, to set fire to businesses…and yet fails see any violence, rioting or insurrection for all those years. I’m pretty sure a dictionary would say otherwise.””
Oh and “Living the Dream”….are you Bobstain from Toowoomba? Your dripping hypocritical sanctimony reads like his gunk.
Try harder next time fool.
“Mother Lodesays:
January 14, 2022 at 1:43 pm
Who is ‘Living the Dream’. Not quite the same stink as Gargoolry.”
I think it’s Vietman.
Remember Trump also told people NOT to protest on Jan 6 2021, and this was censored by fuckheads like Jack Dorsey.
“Go and Google 1996 Parliament House riot to see what is violent assault on government. Here’s a video in case you’re too lazy to search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW0yxPbZq40.”
But…but….but….it’s different when the left do it.
GOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING VIETMAN!
1. When the government forces employers to do it, it’s hardly “employer prerogatives”.
2. Up until very recently, it was illegal to discriminate based on private medical information. Let’s take AIDS for example. Unvaccinated individuals (who are not Covid positive) pose zero risk to anyone or anything, so discriminating based on that criteria is completely irrelevant, and hence against the law (as we understood it). Discrimination based on being Covid positive, is actually relevant, but that not what we are discussing.
When this ends, I look forward to employers (and government) not being required to provide wheelchair access or reasonable accommodation for medical impediments. Just don’t hire them, or let them on your premises. Perhaps they should be allowed to discriminate against females because of the potential liabilities associated with maternity leave? This list goes on, and is very long.
They have opened Pandora’s box, and it’s going to be a brave new world.
Bolshevik Bob standing up for employer rights?
The world HAS shifted on its axis.
Yeah, his bitterness and spite was always very much to the front. Other people try to dress it up more.
Katzenjammersays:
January 14, 2022 at 10:36 am
But what’s being done to gain almost universal conscription?
Being offered a choice between silver and lead?
” Is it just me or do others agree that those who “openly proclaimed intent from 2016 onwards…”
Not just you, Cassie.
Was it not Hilbillary Klin-tonne who said Joe Biden should not concede “under any circumstances”?
Was it not the same corrupt hag who said Donald Trump was an “illegitimate president”?
Was it not Democrat supporters who entered the Capitol building in Jan 2017 to “protest” Trumps inauguration?
Were there not “mostly peaceful” protests (including burning cars) in DC after that?
Was it not Democrat supporters who created the need for Kyle Rittenhouse to protect a used car dealership in Kenosha?
Was it not BLM and Antifa – the miltant arm of the Dems – that made several attempts to burn down a Federal courthouse in Oregon?
Was it not the same goons who set fire to a police station while there were people inside it?
Is it not true that in NONE of the above cases has ANYONE been charged by ANY federal agency?
Is it not true that the now Vice President of the USA arranged a bail fund for these rioters and that her staff donated to that fund?
Is it not true that of those people arrested for Jan 6 2021 offenses who have been held without bail for over 12 months, NONE have been charged with sedition, insurrection or other such crimes, merely trespass and other similar offenses?
Is it not true that Trump requested National Guard presence on Jan 6, but Pelosi and her sycophants denied that request because they didn’t like “the optics”?
What is wrong with this picture?
“What is wrong with this picture?”
Nothing….ALL CORRECT.
But wait, there’s more…
Remember how in 2018, during the Kavanaugh hearings, Democrat supporters entered the Capitol building and physically and verbally harassed members of congress to protest Kavanaugh’s confirmation?
They knew precisely what optics they wanted. The rabble rousing agents provocateur, the sprinklings of FBI agents posing as protesters, the DC police letting the protesters in – they were hoping for a left-wing level of riot. And keeping the National Guard out was an important plank of the strategy.
They must have been thoroughly perplexed when there was no brick throwing, no Molotov cocktails, no incendiaries at all, no guns, no murders, no assaults, no rapes – just people taking selfies and the rowdiest of all just taking a couple of items of furniture as trophies.
It is why they have harped on continuously about insurrection, but not actually providing any proof – hoping if they say it enough people’s imaginations might manufacture a memory.
Pelosi, Schumer etc – in a decade they will be dead. Plutocrat geriatrics, they are simply that old.
But the damage they have wrought will last forever.
Just beginning the process of undoing their baleful influence will involve sprinkling their multiple plastic tubs and creating Democrat Memorial Porta-loos located around DC, and naming wings of Libraries after them filled with books describing the inhumanity Adolph, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Fidel, and all the Democrat politicians who have burned citizens to provide warmth to their campaigns for lucrative re-election.
Biden’s wing should be a series of arrows in library that does not actually resolve into a particular location – just goes ambling on the way he goes rambling on.
I digress but
Dammit! I wish people would choose their examples more carefully. Like “Y2K was a hoax” “WMD” were transported to Syria, and later used there.
Now back to read the whole thing.
sprinkling their ashes into multiple plastic tubs
Don’t you just hate it when your flights of rhetoric outrace your plodding typing.
ML
they were hoping for a left-wing level of riot.
Were they hoping that shooting Ashlii Babbitt would cause the rednecks to produce their hidden assault rifles, and give them an excuse to go all medieval?
Not as something planned – and it would have been all the more stupid since it was the only fatality on the day (which, again, has been eagerly glossed over).
But I can imagine the DC police and others being primed and ready to go hell for leather at the first and least provocation in order to create the hell-scape they were hoping for.
Problem with minions is that they are not very subtle – if they were as subtle as their masters they might turn events to their own advantage, so the best (in most cases) are Vogon-guards.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1462481/download
Mater: the Mountie is employed and the employer required that he comply with a health requirement. He refused and so he effectively gave up employment. This is as it should be. In case you may not have noticed, quite a few employers face this problem. I am one and had to let go a perfectly good worker who refused to meet the standards required of others in the workplace.
As to the clinical issues, you can debate that as much as you like. The reality faced by employers is that the virus crushes the work force and wrecks businesses. Vaccination is the primary course, together with managed airborne conditions, to deal with the virus risk.
People promoting lies and dumb theories are accentuating the problem. I notice many seem to very quickly conflate virus lies with Trump lies. As if somehow support for the liar requires lies about a virus.
Which is why you had such a long and successful career in the Education Department, despite having gone to war against its ideological bedfellows in 1971 and succeeded, right Collaborator Bob?
You were so much of a wanker with attitude that they just had to give in, in the end?
Heavens forbid that Collaborator Bob would become- Gasp!- A private employer in a capitalist system that he believes are built upon a foundation of unfair transactions.
How did you compensate for this (and your erstwhile employee), Bob?
That’s you, idiot.
Coronavirus is literally the common cold.
The ‘vaccinated economy’ is crumbling before our very eyes and midwits are still unware.
Why do you say the Dover? Vaccines protected reasonably well against alpha, not great but okay against Delta. The variant is now Omni, which sounds like a cold in comparison to the other two. We therefore walked over the first two variants with some help from the vaxxes and now dealing with a low grade flu. Vaxxes helped us get here.
Warning Will Robinson!! Bullsh1t alert!!!
JC, the ‘vaccinated economy’ was instituted on Oct 15. 2021. It fell apart in three months.
Rex: I hired a younger woman with a slightly better education and far less experience who has no issue with the health protections expected by colleagues. (I do not now, nor have I ever, worked in the public sector.)
OK, so you’re not Collaborator Bob.
But you share his taste in groupthink and terror of a mere glorified cold virus.
Hmmm…You sound like another one of the delightfully intolerant and ideologically small-minded old GetUp! mob we used to have such fun with on the old Cat.
Welcome! Please do come try your luck on the Open Thread some time…
Yes she does. If you gave her a choice, well, you didn’t.
COVID is literally a cold, you illiterate moron.
Dot: not a winning argument.
Rex: having read quite a lot on the early history of Stalin, Hitler and Mao’s careers, I am struck by the parallels in contemporary behaviours. Politicians who promote lies and manipulate prejudices, citizens who roam in gangs and cluster around popular obsessions. The assault on anyone who has any knowledge, especially if it requires that people act on it…..unthinking support for plainly fake demagogues. Not to mention obvious doublespeak words things like ‘open thread’ are patently about closed minds.
New meme: The Left do not get irony…
Rex: That was irony.
And if I’m on the Left you are way, way, way, way over in a tiny hole in the wall on the Right.
Not sure if you think you are actually insulting me, or what?
If I am a Leftist, then yooz are an Far-Right Nasti! is not how actual conservative-leaning folks relate to each other.
A fact you might have picked up if you were to lurk more and post on any thread other than a very limited number of Covid-specific threads, in which you could post your Narrative about how good and responsible and ‘All In This Together’ you allegedly are, and how everyone else is a deplorable Trumpian Insurrectionist Anti-vaxxxer [Spit]…
Rex: so you don’t mean to call people you disagree with Leftist? Or are you just very confused? Maybe it’s an anger problem?
Poor troll.
Please try harder, or get one of your more competent comrades to take charge of this account and try again.
COVID is literally a cold, you illiterate moron.
Rex: shticks, stones, etc……
Dot: repetitive, -10: stay after class and give Rex a hug.
Still failing, troll.
Get someone more competent to antagonise the Cat on your behalf, or don’t bother returning.
Rex: You missed my point. It’s people like Mr Kates who are fucking up my business. There’s no law against him doing that, but at least I can post here to let people know that this foolishness has consequences.
How so, trollykins?
How does one man writing up his disagreement with capricious governmental edicts and their manipulated-fear zeitgeist, and an increasing popular revolt against the same edicts and manipulation ‘fuck up’ your business?
This does not sound like the lament of a business owner struggling to get by under the fickle and random thumb of health bugmen, but a suspiciously passive-aggressive threat from one of the health bugmen themselves.
After all, what does your clumsy attempt to link Trump supporters and the Left’s ‘January 6 was an Insurrection’ meme to a Canadian policeman who has said “I do not like the way my organisation’s and society’s values have suddenly turned against me. I can no longer conscience supporting and enforcing them, so I choose to no longer associate myself with them,” have to do with individuals in Australia refusing to comply with a vaccine mandate regardless of the personal cost? Which remains their freedom to do so?
You cannot legislate people into compliance, trollykins. And the more you fools browbeat and physically bash them, the more the resistance hardens and draws in the previously-compliant whose sense of fairness and decency is triggered by your lot’s behaviour.
REX; I don’t expect that narcissists would ever contemplate the point of view of someone who experiences consequences for their indulgences. However, as you clearly haven’t been anywhere near a business for some time, I will tell you that the effect on business and work of the belligerent pretence of “liberty” involved in choosing only this vaccine to refuse is tolling a great cost.
It is fact that no one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated. It is also true that people will not work with unvaccinated co-workers. You might even be interested to know that the person I was forced to stand down has contracted the virus and is in a serious condition in ICU. My motivation arose from the fact that she cites nonsense sourced from people like Mr Kates as her “authority”.
So, your entire schtick has been entirely about how you feel inconvenienced and angered by other folks making up their minds differently to yours, bugman? A very clumsy and emotional attempt to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you.
All non-governmental enterprises in this country are a ‘business’ of some sort. A second very clumsy attempt to dismiss me. But please do keep raging…
Really? Do you thus admit that you throwing a tantrum because one of your alleged employees did not do what you wanted, and you are struggling to find a replacement who is identical the first (A functional impossibility, given that every human being is different in skills, temperament and experience)? Or do you think this clumsy act is a convincing imitation of what you and your Comrades believe a real person out in the Private Sector actually sounds like?
Wrong. Practically all Australian States (including mine) have dictated that anyone who wants to work must be stabbed twice and now boostered in order to be allowed the privilege of emoyment. Review your comrades’ own rules before posting- Your misinformation and agitprop will be more effective.
Truth by assertion is not proof, no matter what your university professors have told you. Independent evidence of this, please…
Bugman, you are throwing the same sort of religious tantrums that zealots of every persuasion make against folks they disagree with. Heretic = Dissident = Infidel = Antivaxxer = Splitter. And all too often it boils down to the sheer pettiness of “They won’t comply with the same rules as me!” So what if they are ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ by the dissidents,’ government’s or media’s standards of the day? It’s their life in the end. Not yours. Why not let God sort them out?
But anyway, nice tantrum…
Well, that was interesting.
Hamsters now fed and racing.
Rex: Drinking your own bath water must be terribly self-gratifying. I imagine you sitting in a university. A “non-government enterprise” being a neat way to avoid description that might include business. It is my fervent hope that you and your ilk drown in your own indulgences.
If I had a tantrum, you’d know. Right now, I’m simply making the point that wankers with attitude are promoting considerable injury to the welfare of others – especially those like Mr Kates who somehow manage to hold a job in a taxpayer funded education institution.
Hiho Kimmy G! I knew I’dseen you and your impotent flailing before. Welcome to the Flash-Cat. Do make sure you try the fish before you go… 😀
I do know- You’ve been throwing one about all those dratted wrong-thinking anti-vaxxxxxxxxxxers this entire thread… 🙂
See? Look at you go! 😀
How Dare He!?!
[Poked Toad Squealing Intensifies]
#TemperTantrum
So, KimmyG aka the Littlest Anklebiter,
Now that we have correctly identified you, does this entire thread of malicious and mendacious malarkey you’ve managed to spit out have any basis at all in truth?
Or have you just invented it all to try and nip at the ankles of one Steve Kates, a fellow who throws your stunted intellectual pygmyism into sharp relief?
You are not a very good nemesis, after all…
#BringBackIampeter
Rex: you seem to have a lot of well developed antagonists. No dbt you’ll be whingeing like hell when your efforts – and those of your deep-thinking cronies – have put the ALP in Government. I really do hope sincerely that you rot in hell.
BTW: totally wrong on the attempted ID caper.
Keep at it, littlest anklebiter!
You’ll get me one day. 😀
What a shame it’s taken you over 4 days to come up with this hilariously snooth-brained attempt at a response- That anyone who disagrees with The Approved Narrative you’ve been parroting is really somehow going to get the ALP elected. That’ll show all the nasty anti-vaxxxxxxxing deplorables how ‘In This Together’ you really are…
Ah, Rex. You’ve done it again
Yes, yes I have. 🙂
If your brain gets any smoother, I think it’ll polish up beautifully…