What was the 2014 Euromaidan Coup in Ukraine and why does it matter?

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This is a comment on a post at Powerline. It highlights how little we know about anything that surround so many of the major issues of the world today.

There is evidence that the US was involved in the 2014 Maidan coup replacing the Ukrainian leader friendly to Russia with one friendly to the US. This 2014 photo shows Klobuchar, McCain and Graham in Ukraine around the time of the coup. Why Klobuchar is circled I do not know.

On the other side of Klobuchar is Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, an Obama appointee who was fired by Trump for undermining his effort to get evidence of Biden’s corrupt activity in Ukraine. She testified against Trump in the first impeachment.

The left and the media lie to us relentlessly and shamelessly. This is from a post I put up on October 21,2020: The only evidence that the left understand right from wrong is they know what they have to cover up about. So the New York Times now acknowledges that it really was Hunter Biden’s laptop. They don’t acknowledge the corruption that they have been instrumental in covering up. This was posted just before the presidential election in the US.

But at least here in Oz there is still Sky News: Story of Hunter Biden’s laptop has ‘illuminated the power of the world’s tech giants’.

Recastled Managing Director Kosha Gada says the story of Hunter Biden’s laptop has illuminated the power of the world’s tech giants. Her comments come as the world’s digital giants over the past week were censoring stories that are critical of Joe Biden, especially of his son Hunter Biden profiting from Joe Biden’s time as vice president. “The issue really is very significant and extends far beyond the Trump presidency, and far beyond election 2020,” Ms Gada told Sky News host Chris Kenny. “It’s really … for the first time in history, we have this set of four or five companies, that in the span of 20 years are now a collective net worth of $5 trillion in market cap, which makes them the most powerful companies, and the richest companies, and most influential companies ever created in history.

Is it really possible in the world today to seal off this kind of information from people who vote for parties of the left? Of course. Just depend on the ABC for your news. Ignorance is bliss, until the election is over and Biden-Harris become president.

Is it possible for the media to suppress the truth so comprehensively? There can no longer be any doubt about it whatsoever. But what remains the most astonishing part is how those who support parties of the left are pleased to be left in ignorance of anything that prevents their side from governing.

LATE ADDITION

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And just in from Instapundit.

SERIOUS AMERICANS ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION THE LEGITIMACY OF THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY: Psaki: We have no idea if Hunter Biden got a ton of money from China and Russia. “We recently learned that the huge group of “intel experts” who signed a 2020 letter essentially declaring the Hunter Biden laptop story to be Russian disinformation have all come down with a sudden case of either amnesia or laryngitis. Not even an admission by the venerable New York Times that the story was legit seems to have helped jog their memories or loosen their tongues. The New York Post, who first validated and broke the Hunter Biden laptop story 17 months earlier, has been taking a well-deserved victory lap and they’re not done yet. A reporter for the Post brought a series of related and quite relevant questions to White House spokesperson Jen Psaki this week. They specifically wanted to know what she had learned about potential conflicts of interest for Joe Biden, given his son’s lucrative business dealings with China and Russia. Strangely, despite these stories showing up all across the media spectrum, Psaki didn’t appear to have any idea what the reporter was talking about.”

Actually they do have an idea whether Biden Father and Son are utterly corrupt. But if you think you have enough information to make a sensible assessment of what is going on in The Ukraine, you are completely kidding yourself. 

86 thoughts on “What was the 2014 Euromaidan Coup in Ukraine and why does it matter?”

  1. A fascinating, long and detailed documentary of events leading up to, surrounding and consequences of the Ukraine, US backed coup in the period 2013 to 3021. Discretion is advised, many hard to watch scenes. With English subtitles. All the stuff that MSM determined to keep out of the public eye.
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/YfKpVvzyBLmA/
    Also have a look at Oliver Stone’s Ukraine on fire documentary for a focused take on events, useful to view his interview with Putin as well


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  2. That’s what seems to be the great divide. If someone only gets their news from the MSM, then you can predict their opinions on pretty much all the big issues. No independent thought.


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  3. The irony is that today’s youth blame the Boomers for all of their current woes. What are they going to say to their equivalent generations in years to come when life is far worse for their children and grandchildren under the life they allowed to be created?


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  4. 1. Ukrainians tipped out the most corrupt leader imaginable. His theft in a short period is barely imaginable. 2. Trump certainly held back funds from Ukraine nd has consistently encouraged Putin to invade. 3. Mouthing Putin’s propaganda and diminishing the rights of Ukrainians is truly disgusting.


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  5. And the Belarus guy is a monster as well.
    As for Australian media, thank goodness for Sky after dark, and Outsiders, as there’s little else to turn to for commentary, with The Orstraylian looking more and more like the Murdoch boys play pen.
    Between Sky and Fox News we can get all the political coverage we need for both local and US areas.


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  6. There is at least as much evidence to impeach Biden as there ever was to impeach Trump. Never happen, of course. Harris is an impenetrable safety rail.


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  7. The irony is that today’s youth blame the Boomers for all of their current woes.

    Not without some reason, it should be said.

    John Howard is the father of contemporary Australia.


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  8. My take.

    A corrupt jerk who was beholden to Russia to stay in power was replaced by a corrupt jerk beholden to the US alphabet agencies/ corruptocrats to stay in power.

    Putin automatically loses the moral high ground (such as there is) by declaring war but look at how much dough is flowing through the joint over the last decade or so and wonder who its sticking to?

    A lot of 10% for the big guys


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  9. Duncan: people who don’t think for themselves are the ones spouting the Putin line. It’s not hard to get enough information on these issues and in my case, some of it comes from Russians.


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  10. The irony is that today’s youth blame the Boomers for all of their current woes.

    Seems to be likely an astute observation. Boomer generation people behind all these appalling leadership errors in the West.


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  11. “2. Trump certainly held back funds from Ukraine nd has consistently encouraged Putin to invade.”

    Evidence?

    This is not intelligent commenting.


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  12. On the one hand, I’ve been reading the mainstream media (and at one remove, reports of the vast majority of social media) explaining about evil Vladimir Putin attacking to poor, decent Ukraine.

    On the other hand, I’ve been reading the more radical right (and left) sources telling me about the corruption of the Ukraine and how they were the bad guys in this story.

    Frankly, neither story really stands up to serious critical analysis and I’d just about settled for “truth is the first casualty of war” and figuring I’d wait for the books to come out in a couple of decades…when I thought I’d look at regime change in the Ukraine.

    So – and I’m sorry if I appear t9 be teaching you to suck eggs – in 2014 a Russian puppet President was replaced (the Euromaiden coup) by an American puppet President (Poroshenko). In turn, Poroshenko lost in an absolute landslide in a democratic election to Zelensky in an election fought almost entirely on the basis of the clearly visible corruption of Poroshenko, Zelensky being presented as a “man of the people”.

    There had to be more to this than met the eye. I found this which was an eye opener. Once you get the idea that Ihor Kolomoisky might be a player in this, you can find background material fairly readily. The Speccie article is a good summary though.

    Now, just add into the mix the idea that, if you’re a player in financial. markets, you really don’t care if the market is falling or rising, what you want is volatility (and a little leverage on the volatility is a bonus) and…hey presto, pots and pans…you have a coherent and credible narrative.

    Of course, it helps that the leader of the free world is careering down the rabbit hole of dementia at a hand gallop, that the West wants a distraction from the COVID propaganda which has long slipped out of control and that Putin is beginning to struggle to keep all the reins of power under control…and that Big Pharma and Big Tech have had everything their way for too long, it’s now the turn of the Military-Industrial complex…

    The people, as ever, are the main losers.


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  13. I’m having real trouble with the linking stuff on this site – sigh.

    The “click through” on my previous post does work, it all just looks odd.


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  14. It is because they come from the Father of Lies, although most in the media and politics probably don’t know it.
    The good news is that it has never been easier to see the truth for the lies are so stark.
    People need to make a choice – support the Father of Lies or support what’s good, beautiful and true.


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  15. 2. Trump certainly held back funds from Ukraine nd has consistently encouraged Putin to invade.

    Yeah, right, which is why Putin waited until Trump was out of office.
    Unmitigated, unsubstantiated rubbish.


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  16. Living the dreamsays:
    March 21, 2022 at 9:59 am
    Duncan: people who don’t think for themselves are the ones spouting the Putin line. It’s not hard to get enough information on these issues and in my case, some of it comes from Russians.

    People who look objectively can see that both sides have massive problems with corruption and a lack of enthusiasm for genuine democracy. Those who see evil on only one side are half blind.

    To borrow from Henry Kissinger at the time of the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, “Can’t they both lose?”


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  17. Boambee: one of them has an army invading the other, whose President won in a landslide. There is no suggestion by anyone that the current President is any sort of crook.
    Cassie: Trump publicly witheld funds and publicly supported Putin’s invasion. The evidence is freely available and you’d have to deliberately avoid it to not know that.


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  18. “Trump certainly held back funds from Ukraine and has consistently encouraged Putin to invade”
    So this is why we had the Russiagate scandal, and four years of single-minded determination to get rid of him. Masterpiece of logic.


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  19. “Cassie: Trump publicly witheld funds and publicly supported Putin’s invasion. The evidence is freely available and you’d have to deliberately avoid it to not know that.”

    I’m sure you’re better than this….but perhaps not.


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  20. Angus Black says:
    March 21, 2022 at 10:29 am
    ….. in 2014 a Russian puppet President was replaced (the Euromaiden coup) by an American puppet President (Poroshenko). In turn, Poroshenko lost in an absolute landslide in a democratic election to Zelensky in an election fought almost entirely on the basis of the clearly visible corruption of Poroshenko, Zelensky being presented as a “man of the people”.

    Yep, 100% accurate.

    Ukraine made its first overtures to NATO way back in 1992 and has blown hot-and-cold ever since. In late 2014 the Ukraine amended its constitution to ditch its non-aligned status and made joining NATO a ‘priority’ – after Russia reclaimed Crimea (and supported the Donbas) – and in 2017 that priority actually became law.

    In 2018 the EU, NATO (read US) and Ukraine had numerous meetings, the result of which was that everyone seemed to be in broad agreement, except of course Russia continued to express its total opposition. Nobody seemed to care and Russia’s concerns weren’t addressed other than a glib “Russia has nothing to fear from an expanded NATO”. Needless to say, Russia didn’t see it that way.

    Meanwhile during 2015/16/17, US troops were regularly exercising in Ukraine with Polish soldiers under the ‘Partnership for Peace’ and the US was providing money to Ukraine to upgrade various military systems. Russia went nuts and made assorted dark threats. It was pure provocation by the US but again, “Russia has nothing to fear from an expanded NATO”.

    By around Feb/March 2021, Ukraine was ‘confirmed’ as a potential candidate for NATO membership but this had to go through a Membership Action Plan (MAP) first. Nevertheless, this was a definite sign that Ukraine was on the path to membership. About 3 months later, Russia began her build up of troops (via military exercises with Belarus and within her own borders) and about 6 months after that, the invasion of Ukraine began.

    Fault lies everywhere but the US must bear a very substantial portion for egging on the Ukraine, conducting provocative exercises almost within sight of the Russian border, helping to fund Ukraine military and perhaps worst of all, ignoring Russia’s legitimate national security concerns. Russia made her position clear for 30 years whilst NATO expanded by another 15 member nations. Securing Ukraine is a ‘jewel in the crown’ for NATO insomuch as its size and geography with Russia. For many years, NATO/US were cautious of Russia but eventually threw that caution to the wind.

    For the Ukraine, there were plenty of opportunities to negotiate with Russia who offered numerous deals, but Zelensky wouldn’t engage as the US continued to feed cash and arms. There are some quite murky and dubious aspects to those arrangements but in the end, the people of Ukraine (and Russia) are paying a high price because of western arrogance and sheer bloody-mindedness.


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  21. Cassie: Trump publicly .. supported Putin’s invasion. The evidence is freely available and you’d have to deliberately avoid it to not know that.

    so you’ll have no problems linking to this evidence, then


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  22. I’m sure you’re better than this….but perhaps not.

    I don’t think he is.
    BTW, he is another (like Dick Ed) who makes unsubstantiated allegations or claims – in this case about Trump – but then expects those who call him out to do the research themselves!


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  23. Ukrainians tipped out the most corrupt leader imaginable. His theft in a short period is barely imaginable.

    lol

    You do not want to rewrite 2014 to make it about “theft” and corruption because that’s going to go terribly.

    Better to stick to the official 2014 reason that the violent US backed the violent overthrowing of the last legitimate governing in the Ukraine was because the elected president was being too “pro Russian”.


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  24. “Trump publicly witheld funds and publicly supported Putin’s invasion. The evidence is freely available and you’d have to deliberately avoid it to not know that.”

    Ah yes – the funds that it was testified to at Trump’s impeachment were a quid pro quo even though Trump specifically said “I don’t want anything!”? Those funds? They’re the ones he withheld?

    Or the reported “Invade Ukraine and I’ll bomb Moscow” that Trump allegedly said to Putin – and that Putin never invaded while Trump was in office. Well, who knows why Putin held back, but he did – maybe because Trump wasn’t interested in getting bribed by huge energy companies, or maybe it was because he was dismantling a large chunk of the corruption coming from the US deep state and Dems that was going on the Ukraine and that was all Putin really wanted anyway? And maybe he decided to invade because people in power in the US were pushing, once again, for Ukraine to join NATO and/or the EU and strip mining cash from Ukraine?


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  25. It’s strange that nobody mentions the final chapter of Euromaidan which happened in 2019. I guess it’s a pretty ugly look, so best to pretend it didn’t happen on multiple fronts.

    After the coup and having being given the green light by the US State Dept, Euromaidan’s manufactured William Wallace style “leader”, Victor Poroshenko, was installed into power as president. Then in 2019 Zelensky came to power, and did so by accusing Poroshenko – the once Euromaidan hero and darling of wannabee revolutionary fanboys in the west everywhere, of being a Russian traitor. Having secured power Zelensky then set the government after Poroshenko formally accusing and charging the “pro west” hand-picked coup leader, with high treason.

    Now we’re learning about Zelensky’s broad “network” of international “business interests”, and today his near complete abolition of Ukraine’s opposition parties.

    Somewhat of a pattern emerges in Ukraine’s “pro west” governments.


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  26. Ukraine is a democrat neo-con project and has been since 2014.

    The reason Putin didn’t invade during Trump’s years was because Trump wasn’t all up in there trying to turn Ukraine into another Libya, Iraq or Syria, and instead was trying to dismantle what had been setup in that country under Clinton and Obama.

    The country that was, surprise!, central to Russiagate and his impeachment.

    Biden gets in, literally the same individuals go back to Ukraine and pick up right where they left off, but knowing that they may only have less than a full term to finish the job they started in 2014, they go full retard. Putin reacts and here we are.

    This stuff really isn’t hard.


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  27. Talking to someone recently who knows that part of the world first hand.

    He said the one thing Ukraine has which Russia doesn’t is a functioning civil society that has arisen in response to the oligarchs & official corruption. Zelensky tapped into this sentiment, albeit cynically, it would seem.

    The little elements of civil society that managed to get up and running in Russia after the Soviet collapse have subsequently been stamped out of existence by Putin or have to function under the government radar.


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  28. First, two facts:

    –The transcript of the Biden/Xi conversation will not be released, and Xi has publicly stated ‘He who tied the bell to the tiger must take it off.’

    –Hunter/The Big Guy were paid by both Russia and Ukraine for unknown services.

    Now, my conspiracy theory: Hunter/The Big Guy were acting as double-agents, paid by Ukraine for NATO membership consideration, and paid by Russia to thwart it, and Russia and China now both know this through intelligence work.
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  29. I have to conclude that people here are keen to see Putin persist and will continue, as Cassie does, to ignore evidence (like when Trump says Putin’s invasion is “smart”) that doesn’t suit their “hard power” preferences.
    In doing so, you contribute to his undermining of Western values and the idea he may have that the West has many – like Trump – who support him.
    As things stand, Putin will likely become increasingly frustrated as his incompetent efforts bog his military. At that point we’ll find out what is the price of all this: any compromise will put Ukraine back into Soviet status. Lack of compromise may lead to a wider war and consequences that do not bear consideration.
    The Putin lovers here will have to own that.


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  30. Living the dreamsays:
    March 21, 2022 at 2:07 pm

    so you refuse to provide any evidence of your assertions?

    like when Trump says Putin’s invasion is “smart”

    That does not equate to support for Putin. Grow a brain.


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  31. In doing so, you contribute to his undermining of Western values and the idea he may have that the West has many – like Trump – who support him.

    the new western values: compliance, gaslighting, cancel culture and poverty


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  32. Zipster: you might have missed this, but virtually all of the West has responded in support of Ukrainians who demonstrate their willingness to stand up to tyranny. It’s people like you who ‘cancel’ the Ukrainian message and gaslight them with Putin-inspired propaganda.


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  33. Imagine if this was happening under Trump (not that it would be likely). How would the narrative pan out? Somewhat differently methinks.

    Some are still finding ways to blame Trump.
    And some of them because Trump and Putin are supposedly buddies.
    Which begs the question, if that were the case why didn’t Putin invade until after Trump was out of office and Biden in?


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  34. Wet Dream

    There is no suggestion by anyone that the current President is any sort of crook.

    You need to read more widely.

    Regardless, corruption has flourished in Ukraine for years. See Biden, Hunter, and various children of other US politicians, including Pelosi and Romney. They weren’t there for the scenery. What did the Ukraine authorities do to clean up the mess? The standard they walk by is the standard they accept, and they have accepted a lot of open corruption.


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  35. Boomer generation people behind all these appalling leadership errors in the West.
    Biden, Harris, Psaki – the whole disaster?
    Epic fail on that, boomer persecutor.


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  36. In doing so, you contribute to his undermining of Western values

    The new Western values: gay marraige, murder of babies (aka abortion), euthanasia of the infirm, ugly architecture, celebrating hedonism, corptocracy, cancel culture, BLM, feminism, fake news, rigged elections, materialism, God-lessness.

    You can have your “Western values” and we can pray to God they are destroyed


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  37. “In doing so, you contribute to his undermining of Western values……….”

    yes, yes, yes……….yes…………..women’s testicles are a family unit !!! – Source: Vlad the Impaler humping XI over there at Modi.


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  38. Who said Zelenzky was a bad guy: Ukraine: Zelensky Uses Martial Law to Ban Main Opposition Party In Crackdown on ‘Division’. We see democracy at work.

    This is actually democracy US-style these days.


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  39. Someone, possibly Speedbox, posited the observation that had the US helped rebuild Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union Russia might have been an ally and not an enemy, perhaps merely a competitor (Like Biden says China is/sarc) and perhaps there would have been no Putin. But no, the US and the West gloated in the demeaning of Russia and her citizens. Opportunity missed? Another for the box of coulda-bins.


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  40. Frogger,

    That was a very moving documentary. The futility of war exposed.

    The saddest thing was the little ones playing with casings and shells as if it were a normal part of childhood.


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  41. Tinta…that was me in a post a few days ago…based on what Peter Hitchens said in an excellent discussion with Colin Brazier on GB News last week.


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  42. Steve, it is many many years since I was involved in adult learning. Even then we were under siege from the Left who were intent on transforming the curricula in the schools.

    As a result of the Long March, it would appear that the ability to question data intelligently has quite disappeared. Reason has been overtaken by Emotion, and whole disciplines have been rearranged to insert political dicta into their study.

    Amazingly, this trend has even been successful in transforming the thought processes of those who did receive an education founded in critical thinking. Friends are completely nonplussed when I offer criticisms of mainstream issues based on actual evidence, rather than the zeitgeist.

    I have to give credit to the dedication of the Left. Conservatives are lost at sea.


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  43. Living the dream says:
    March 22, 2022 at 8:44 am

    First you quote bullshitico politico, now wikipedia?
    Good grief – no wonder you believe this crap, they are both infested with hard-left freaks who wouldn’t know the truth if it crash tackled them in the pub.
    What next, NPR? They’re about as non-partisan as TheirABC is.
    Maybe you should have a look at Fox News – that’s were more than half of registered democrats get their news you know. Not blue check-mark twitterati for sure, they prefer CNN. But real voters, ordinary people with some scepticism (even registered Democrats!) use Fox.


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  44. Kneel: predictable.
    1. I see no need to research something that can be found by a very simple search.
    2. the wiki page has a very large number of links to original sources – but a google search turns up plenty of others
    3. in my experience, the only source accepted here by some folk is one that reflects their own prejudices
    I repeat: Trump can be found in his own words describing Putin’s invasion as “genius”: and so on.


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  45. Living the dreamsays:
    March 22, 2022 at 8:44 am
    duncanm: there are a lot of links in this you might inspect.

    There are a lot of things I can suggest you do, too.

    How about start with a simple one which you refuse to do (because, I suspect, you can’t): Show me where Trump supports Putin’s invasion of Ukraine as you stated.


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  46. I repeat: Trump can be found in his own words describing Putin’s invasion as “genius”: and so on.

    and I repeat.. this does not mean he supports Putin.

    If I said Pol Pot’s purge of the cities was a genius move, would you then conclude I supported it?


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  47. Let’s see. According to the Euromaidan coup theorists the CIA can take over an entire nation bordering Russia and sharing a common culture with minimal casualties in a couple of days. And yet Russia is committing several hundred thousand troops and suffering huge casualties to reverse this and is still not exactly successful.
    Seriously, if Vladimir Putin’s tutors at the KGB academy had foreseen this they would hav expelled him on the sport.
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  48. duncanm: I think we both know what Trump said, beyond the ‘genius’ remark. Typically, he and his fans have been squibbing their way in retreat as it became apparent that “hard power” Putin is plainly incompetent. Whichever spin you put on it, there isn’t any genius to admire in Putin.
    Boambee: I was simply making the point that there is an awful lot you must ignore to persist with the Putin fantasy. But, if you think my reading leads me to the conclusion that he is evil, then you’d be right about that.


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  49. Living the Dream

    I have said it before, and since you either did not read it, or did not understand it, I will repeat it now.

    I take the line that Henry Kissinger did about the 1980s Iran-Iraq War. “Can’t they both lose?”

    There are no goodies in this stoush, and that includes the US politicians and agencies (State, CIA, et al) who have been either (or both) interfering apolitically and profiting personally from corruption there (Bidens, Clintons, Pelosi, Romney et al).

    Is that clear enough for your one-track mind?


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  50. Boambee: how subtle. Your excuse for enabling Putin is that all Ukrainians deserve to have an invading army blow up their homes and kill their kids. Presumably because Ukrainians and Russians are all very bad people. Is that clear enough for your dissembling, groupthink mind?


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  51. Wet Dream

    I’m so sorry. I thought that your opinions related to the leadership of Russia. You did, after all, mention Putin by name, and do not seem to have mentioned individual Russian soldiers in the field, who have little choice in the matter.

    But since you are so utterly obtuse, let me clarify. I was referring to the leaderships on BOTH sides. None of them are goodies, including your dream boy Zelensky. Neither are the various western (mostly US) politicians and agencies that have been interfering politically and profiting corruptly from the entire Ukraine business.

    PS, if including Putin amongst the “baddies” is enabling him (in your tiny mind), then perhaps you need to do some remedial English study.


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  52. Boambee: tidy. You think about the world by reference to your bogey man idea. Putin, Trump, Biden, Xi….but not the actual people who live in countries and are subject to malevolent dictatorships. Which fits perfectly with the narcissism of Democrat Socialists and Trumpian wankers.
    So, no. I wasn’t simply referring to the cartoon version of life.


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  53. The Littlest Anklebiter demonstrates once again, that you can shill so hard you actually forget what your script requires you to say.

    GetUp! needs better trolls.


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  54. Wet Dream

    Nice tapdancing, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers would be very jealous.

    But try not to put words in my mouth, I will start to think that you are just an empty headed troll. Are you?


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  55. “…not the actual people who live in countries and are subject to malevolent dictatorships.”

    You mean like Ukraine, where the president made all opposition political parties illegal, took control of all media, prevented all men between 18 and 54(?) from leaving the country so they could be conscripted to fight Russians, and the leading medico proposed castrating on Russian PoW’s? That kind of malevolent dictatorship?

    Or perhaps you had in mind the kind of malevolent dictatorship that keeps you locked in your house, closes your small business as “not essential” and forces an irreversible medical procedure on you in order for you to earn a living? That kind of malevolent dictatorship?

    Not saying Putin is “good” either, just that he (and his country) have their security interests in what happens to their neighbours, and that in reality, if you accept (as the UN has) that certain ethnicities were being persecuted in Ukraine, what Putin did is no better or worse than say, killing Khadaffi or bombing Syria or fighting the IRA.


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  56. Living the dreamsays:
    March 23, 2022 at 12:08 pm
    Rex/Boambee: first you need words in your brain. Right now, it’s all dissembling.

    OK, you are just a mindless troll. Do you get paid by the word, or for individual posts?


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  57. “Kneel: so the Ukrainian president’s actions justify an invasion?”

    I didn’t say that.
    But I would say that Putin may believe it does (or maybe he really is an insatiable dictator).
    He may be right, I can’t say because I don’t have the information to make that call.
    I do wonder if it was the US and Mexico under the similar circumstances, would we be seeing something similar, with the sides “swapped”? Syria, Iraq etc would seem to suggest so.

    Are you and many others being hoodwinked on this? (Me too – I’m nothing special, other than perhaps more sceptical than most). I dunno that either. But the various governments, MSM and social media have a recent history in this regard – eg, Russiagate, the Biden laptop, the 2020 US Presidential election, COVID, even Venezuela and so on. So I’m not inclined to believe “the authorities” of just one side on this sort of thing – show me both sides, show me the evidence, let me see both sides debating it, and let me make up my own mind. That’s what is supposed to happen under our system of governance, and it has been missing – big time. Why is that? Dunno that either, but it sure looks like “conflict of interest” or corruption to me – one way or another. Lots of shonky backroom deals happening, lots of hyper-polarised crap going on.

    Very ugly. And yes, poor ordinary people (this time Ukrainians) copping the rough end of the stick – as usual. So, yeah – I feel sorry for the Uke’s. I’m just not convinced Biden & Co are on the “good” side.


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  58. Kneel: I don’t get it. What has Biden got to do with this? It seems to me very clear that Putin has invaded because he (and other Russian nationalists) believe Ukraine is their property. Clearly the Ukrainians do not think so, which is exactly the position they had when they were in the USSR.
    So I can only see an extremely unjust attack on Ukraine which is doing horrible damage and causing huge loss of life on both sides. It’s also clear that Putin can’t get a clear win, because Ukraine won’t be a slave state to Russia. All of this is clear and requires no reliance on any propaganda at all.
    What I object to is people making excuses for Putin’s brutality and denying Ukrainians the right to self-determination.


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  59. [May be double posted – not exact. If so, apologies]

    “Kneel: I don’t get it. What has Biden got to do with this?”
    More a comment on the mendacious MSM/Big Tech and their now deserved in-the-gutter reputation. IOW, don’t believe everything the “free western press” tells you!

    “It seems to me very clear that Putin has invaded because he (and other Russian nationalists) believe Ukraine is their property.”

    No.
    Vlad reckons:
    1) Ukraine abrogated it’s independence agreement by trying to join NATO, and thus “block” Russia from a Black Sea port;
    2) Ukraine has ignored the calls for independence of several “eastern” areas of Ukraine, mostly with a lot of “ethnic Russian” people in them;
    3) Said eastern areas have been the target of military style attacks (bombs, mortars, patrols etc) for years and more than 13,000 have been killed.

    Personally, I think that the first is a legitimate security concern for Russia regardless of who is in power, that the second is a “feel good” “yay for independence and self-determination” story and the last, if true, is a valid excuse for a “peace keeping” mission.

    Certainly the UN seems to agree that the last actually has happened, and it doesn’t appear much different to me than NATO bombing “jug-o-saliva” in the ’90’s – in both cases, each “side” of the dispute blames the other and exaggerations are par for the course. The only real difference I see is who is doing the “peace keeping”, and in both cases it seems to be the “nearest neighbour”, but “Russia bad, NATO good”. Right. Sure.


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