‘Voice’ referendum thread


The Big Picture, Tom Roberts, 1903

1,181 responses to “‘Voice’ referendum thread”

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  1. Bear Necessities Avatar
    Bear Necessities

    My electorate (RYAN Qld) just voted YES and may spill into NO depending on Postals. I think many people here voted Yes to relieve their consciences. They want to seem to do doing something even if they have reservations about that something.

  2. Bear Necessities Avatar
    Bear Necessities

    A smart LNP would be targeting seats like Ballarat, Bendigo, Werriwa, Dobell etc instead of the Teal seats. It is sticking out like dog balls at them. Similar seats in Qld like Longman, Forde etc are already in LNP hands. Most voters in these seats have little moral connection any more to the ALP (or LNP) except for the habit of voting ALP.

  3. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    Still a lot of Polling to be counted – “Polling Place Counts Completed” – a lot of NO

    updates for today a few – will keep an eye on my Electorate Mackellar

    https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/ReferendumUpdatedByDivision-29581.htm

  4. Jorge Avatar
    Jorge

    Those speeches from Albanese and Burney at the end last night: not one syllable would have been penned by them.

    Tearing up, bottom lips trembling, voice quavering, all because of Gloria and Clive, dreamt up by Jaxx, Hamish and Skye back at the campaign office.

    All of it a marketing exercise. Sound presidential, father of the nation stuff, quote that stiff, Churchill, this time leave out the Housing Commission boy who rose to be PM, but hey, what about Gloria and Clive sitting in the red dust.

    Against that we had Dutton and Jacinta who spoke their own words, nothing on paper, and Jacinta in particular gave one of the best speeches in our history.

  5. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    Will there be one minute of silence at any of the televised footy matches today? (Indig round in the Awful?). Kneeling for the anthem?

    No doubt the Filth Filter* is hoping for such. Anything to prove their relevance. Let’s not forget the role they played (in exchange for freaking oodles of taxpayers’ hard-earned) in tearing off a small scab & enlarging the wound.

    * Otherwise known as the ‘mainsteam’ media. A term too neutral.

  6. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    My gut feel is that the more exposure to Aboriginal community disfunction and the waste and rorting, the less likely to vote Yes.

    I’d like to see the the figures for the identified indigenous populations in the 32 electoral divisions that voted Yes. That is, all the Green, strong Labor (mostly their inner capital city seats), and every single Teal electorate.

    It would be absolutely no surprise to find a clear correlation between small indigenous cohorts and high Yes votes. They are totally detached from the reality of aboriginal disadvantage. As if a mark on a sheet of paper will change decades of piss poor development and oversight of unworkable programs were supposed to make a difference. Magical thinking at its most obvious.

    The only difference it makes is to their warm and fuzzy feeling of doing the right thing. They aren’t racists, oh no, not them. Well, yes, the referendum result shows you most certainly are.

    It’s clear the electorates with large indigenous populations are at the top of the No ladder.

  7. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Tiny
    2 hours ago

    Mr Mansell called on Anthony Albanese to now progress Treaty and designated Indigenous seats in parliament.

    We just said No to the Voice.

    You really think the Australian people will accept these?

  8. alwaysright Avatar
    alwaysright

    Jacinta for PM

  9. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    Jacinta Price was the face of the Voice No campaign. And now – as she stands by Peter Dutton’s side at a victorious press conference – Coalition supporters say SHE should be running the show

    . Australians voted No to the Voice
    . Peter Dutton and Jacinta Price held a conference
    . Voters called for Price to lead the Opposition

  10. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    A No vote tells my kids, who are proudly Birpai, that the world surrounding them doesn’t want them in it, or care what they have to say. It’s a rejection of them

    It says no such thing. That is purely and simply you own personal interpretation of it. Grow up, and stop indoctrinating your children with racist ‘othering’ nonsense.

    That makes you a part of the problem and in no way contributes to any sort of effective solution.

  11. Perplexed of Brisbane Avatar
    Perplexed of Brisbane

    Pleasantly surprised (so far) in my electorate in Brisvegas. It is normally a red / green wasteland but NO is leading 53% to 47%.

    Pre-polls may yet have to be counted. There will be at least two NO votes in that as my wife and I voted pre-poll.

  12. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    One wonders if a small percentage of the No vote was an expression of bitterness & resentment after the covidiocy.

    ‘Firetruck the elite.’ Whatever they’re in favour of has to be bad for me.

  13. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    Jacinta in particular gave one of the best speeches in our history.

    Are any of the MSM likely to do a transcript?

  14. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    Australia has said NO loud and clear to the Voice, writes JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE. Now we must turn last night’s result into a a great opportunity

    Jacinta Nampijinpa Price shares message to Australia

    One together, not two divided.

    That’s the message you have sent loud and clear.

    Australians have used their democratic voice to choose unity over division.

    We have affirmed a nation where we tackle our problems together.

    Side by side, as one. Not separated in our Constitution. Not divided by race.

    This has been a long and bruising campaign and I heard over and over again from Australians that they just wanted this over and done with.

    They’re sick of the division, they’re sick of feeling guilty, sick of being lectured to.

    Finally, they’ve been able to have their say through our democratic process and they’ve said ‘no’.

    No to those who want to treat Aboriginal people differently.

    No to those who want to treat Aboriginal disadvantage as something that’s permanent.

    No to those who profit from casting Indigenous Australians as victims, powerless, incapable of being helped without special treatment.

    It’s important to understand, though, that the No to those things turns tonight’s result into a ‘yes’.

    Not a vacuous ‘yes’ to silly ideas about ‘making history’.

    But a ‘yes’ to practical solutions that bring us together as a united people.

    A ‘yes’ to politicians from the Prime Minister on down – including me – doing our jobs and making sure the money being spent to help is actually going where it needs to go.

    ‘Yes’ to a new approach to tackling Indigenous disadvantage where we are about making sure kids go to school and adults go to work.

    Where we focus on keeping women and children safe.

    And where we understand that Aboriginal people are Australians – human beings – who want exactly the kinds of things we want for all Australians.

    I understand many Australians will be disappointed with the result.

    But this is an opportunity.

    Because I mean it when I say it’s our chance to be united and practical.

    And I’m looking forward to working with all Australians in a future where we tackle problems together, not divided any more but united as one together.

  15. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    Let’s not get carried away with the Jacinta for PM balloons. I’m in no doubt she can do the job and am confident she will eventually reach that point.

    To make her opposition leader now would be a massive strategic and tactical mistake. Give her the portfolio she was born for and let her demonstrate her strengths and bring about the changes that can make a difference.

    Rushing her to saviourhood risks destructive outcomes, personal and political.

  16. calli Avatar
    calli

    A No vote tells my kids, who are proudly Birpai, that the world surrounding them doesn’t want them in it, or care what they have to say. It’s a rejection of them

    What a dill. It tells them the exact opposite.

    We want you. We want you to be part of modern Australia, where your race or creed does not matter, where you can be educated, start a family, build a home, be part of a vibrant community.

    You are rejecting your own country, your own prospects and teaching your children to do the same.

  17. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Let’s not get carried away with the Jacinta for PM balloons. I’m in no doubt she can do the job and am confident she will eventually reach that point.

    I’m imagining a fairly vicious campaign against her, spearheaded by the likes of Thomas Mayo and Noel Pearson.

  18. Robert Sewell Avatar

    Crossie

    Oct 15, 2023 8:40 AM
    Has anybody considered that the high NO vote in NT and other electorates with large numbers of aboriginal voters may actually have been a vote against the Head Men who own and control everything in traditional aboriginal communities? Could it have been a vote for democracy and against authoritarianism?

    That last bit – a vote for democracy and against authoritarianism – is very real.
    After the arrogance and bullying from the political classes of the last 4 years, I think it’s a good indicator that the Australian public have had enough of being pushed around by them.
    With luck, we can grab the next Freedom Cab off the ranks. And no, I have no idea what it would be, but I’m sure some of you have an idea.
    Recall elections? Citizen Initiated Referenda? The ability to sack financially incompetent governments and bring in administrators?

  19. Tintarella di Luna Avatar
    Tintarella di Luna

    The school system is pure indoctrination.

    . Indeed it is, intent on turning out fake Australians

  20. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Their ABC explains the causes of the National Disgrace of Horror.
    No Voters are:

    • Stupid ignorant people, without a university education to their name who probably couldn’t spell YES;

    • Poor people, selfishly more worried about how to keep their households above water, probably with questionable personal hygiene;

    • Homophobic, the same red neck electorates that voted against the sanctity of SSM.

    • Old farts, those old enough to remember ATSIC (who, just quietly, probably pine for the glory days when aboriginals were fauna that couldn’t vote).

    An Expert also discerns an X Factor:

    But the reasons why voters rejected the referendum question is more complex than where they live, according to Emeritus Professor of Sociology Andrew Jakubowicz from the University of Technology Sydney.

    “But it’s been shown in other situations, where people who are more cosmopolitan and globally oriented are likely to be supportive of something like this, as they were in relationship to the same-sex marriage plebiscite.”

    So, cringingly parochial Lesser People, who probably watch footy, serve white wine at room temperature, and have never visited the Louvre or the Met.

    Tucked away at the bottom, for balance, is a slight nod to a possible partial external factor:

    Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg, who also chose to defy his party leader to support the Yes campaign, told ABC News the government was partially to blame for the outcome.

    “I think that, unfortunately, the process was defective here,” he said.

    “They didn’t release an exposure draft bill, but the most critical component here was the refusal to negotiate and a refusal to try and compromise to get a product which could have captured the centre ground.”

    You don’t say, you far king genius.
    So why did you get on board a sinking ship?

  21. JC Avatar
    JC

    I have to laugh

    Emma Alberici
    @albericie

    In 1967 Indigenous Australians were finally counted. In 2023 Indigenous Australians asked to be heard and Australia said no. Tonight’s referendum result is a triumph of lies

  22. alwaysright Avatar
    alwaysright

    Megan, in Jagajaga the postals are 60% NO. If the prepolls are the same the final result in Jagajaga might be closer than you think.

  23. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    2.7% informal – come on how dumb are these people? We do need a civics test.

    These were the people too scared to commit in case they ended up voting for the “wrong” side. If asked to vote tonight, they would vote No and therefore be on the side of the popular vote.
    I have looked at the booth figures for my electorate and it is the centre of the older towns who got Yes up, the tiny country hamlets are all No voters.

  24. Sancho Panzer Avatar
    Sancho Panzer

    Tom
    Oct 15, 2023 9:00 AM
    Hahaha. Sky New political editor Andrew Clennell says the referendum result is bad news politically for Peter Dutton because it makes him “look too negative”.

    Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrell!

    Crowe? from the Oz spinning the same line on Insiders.
    The talking points are out.

  25. alwaysright Avatar
    alwaysright

    It is reassuring to know that I am a macho, redneck, illiterate, ignorant, smelly, racist bully.

    So comforting to have so many companions in this identified grouping.

  26. Jock Avatar
    Jock

    I note that Simon Benson in the Oz says Albos speech was terrific. He should have given it before. My comments are 1 he most certainly did not write the speech himself. 2 it was overly emotional, maudlin and lacking in any facts or details. His greatest memory will be sitting in the dirt in front of ayers rock holding hands with Grannies in a photo opportunity? Legend itself.

  27. Tintarella di Luna Avatar
    Tintarella di Luna

    It is reassuring to know that I am a macho, redneck, illiterate, ignorant, smelly, racist bully.

    . You forgot dinosaur and dickhead – but who’s splitting hairs. In a little while I will be going down to Spotlight to buy a dinosaur iron-on applique and put it on a T-shirt and proudly wear it for the week that in which the real dinosaurs and dickheads have vowed silence. Pity it’s just a week.

  28. Dot Avatar

    A No vote tells my kids, who are proudly Birpai, that the world surrounding them doesn’t want them in it

    No, we want you all in the 21st century; as does Anthony Mundine, with no racial division.

  29. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    Noticing how much postals are changing results in Victoria.
    Deakin has gone from yes to no this morning and Chisholm is now 50.1 yes to 49.9 no.

  30. Perth Trader Avatar
    Perth Trader

    Jacinta Price’s speech was one of the best I’ve heard from a politician for years. Conciliatory..without gloating,..Honest,..with no shame,..and expressed the view of 60 percent of Aust. population….”And I’m looking forward to working with all Australians in a future where we tackle problems together, not divided any more but united as one together.”…LEADERSHIP…watch this lady. I hope she has a ‘steel’ spine and shield to deflect the coming flack I expect she will receive from her enemies.

  31. Louis Litt Avatar
    Louis Litt

    HZ housewife – 14/10 @ 7:47
    I agree with you – I am thinking it is a cult.use laws to control businesses – it’s easy – make laws – say I can get you to a minister or govt rep – im a political connector – this will effect your business – it’s easier to make $500k by organising a meeting – go sit on your arse in a lawyers office 7.5hrs a day 5 days a week trying to interpret law. Cannot do it.Too hard.

  32. Robert Sewell Avatar

    ZK2A:

    Jack Latimor
    As millions of Australians cast their vote on Saturday, my concern was how I’d explain the nation’s decision to my kids if the Voice was rejected.

    Perhaps if Jack had been honest with his kids from the start, he wouldn’t be in this quandary.
    Instead – from the sound of the rest of the letter – he smothered them in bullshit and expected them to accept it without reasoning it out.
    Sux be to you, Jack. Lying to your children when they expect honesty has a cost.
    Start paying.

  33. alwaysright Avatar
    alwaysright

    You forgot dinosaur and dickhead – but who’s splitting hairs.

    Drat!

  34. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    Had a look at several NSW electorates, postal votes are running much higher no than booth votes. About 10% higher, some more than that.

  35. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    When my older son, after considering the issues plumped for no I knew no was home and hosed.
    This after early on after calling me a racist for suggesting Marcus Stewart was no different to him or me.

  36. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    I wonder if YES T-shirts will be available in Vinnies for a dollar next week. Good for BBQ cleaning.

  37. Robert Sewell Avatar

    Maranoa 12,650 15.88 67,020 84.12 504 80,174 106
    Nearly 85% voted no.

  38. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    It’s very odd, quite a few yes signs near me and I saw lots in suburbs like Duffy in Canberra earlier this week, while a clear majority had made up their minds to vote no.

  39. JC Avatar
    JC

    Perth Trader
    Oct 15, 2023 10:20 AM

    Jacinta Price’s speech was one of the best I’ve heard from a politician for years.

    It’s really a difficult thing to get a grip of. Australia’s pols, and I have to say, on both sides of the divide, generally have great speaking skills. They’re reasonably coherent and speak well. We’re a country of 26 million.

    The US has 330 million and they end up with

    Bush snr
    Bush jr
    The corrupt demented idiot.
    Trump is generally very good, but he too wonders off sometimes.

  40. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    People were, very correctly, very wary about a change to the constitution that gave undemocratic power to a very few, a very few with vengeance on their minds.
    Given the great success of Labor in Victoria not so long ago, covid cannot have been a factor, not in this, the lockdown state.

  41. Dot Avatar

    Trump is generally very good, but he too wonders off sometimes.

    “I was good, very good, generally, very very good, you know what else is good? I knew you’d ask me!”

  42. Tintarella di Luna Avatar
    Tintarella di Luna

    A friend suggest we get and wear a Yes T-shirt in light of the speech by Jacinta Nampijinpa Price — yes to working to solve the problem together – in my view that would really be rubbing the Yessers’ nose in it — I’m feeling a bit ansty this fine Sunday morning.

  43. JC Avatar
    JC

    Someone here excerpted a comment made by some Euroweenie pos implying Australians are wacist because the constitutional change was unlikely to get through
    whereas in Europe they’re are more frequent changes.

    Well yeah, you have to have a very solid majority to makes changes and it also applies in the US.

    It’s by design, whereas the Europeans can make changes with 50 plus 1 vote.

  44. cohenite Avatar
    cohenite

    Listening to Pete Davies on 2SM; he’s ok and he had a call from an aboriginal lady called Liz. I felt sorry for her in her anger and disappointment because she practically screamed several things which still have currency but are complete bullshit:

    1 Australia was invaded. A blatant lie. Mabo established this. If Australia had been invaded no Native Title rights would have existed. Also King George’s instructions to Gov Phillips were to do everything to ensure the rights of the natives were preserved and that any violence towards them should be punished.

    2 The black armband history is based on massacres and genocide. Keith Windschuttle and other real historians have rebutted the massacre trope; and if there were a genocide how has the aboriginal population tripled?

    3 She had lived her life under the Flora and Fauna Act. No such legislation ever existed.

    4 She was never counted in any census or had the vote until 1967. In fact SA aboriginal women were amongst the first to have the vote in 1896, Federally it is true they did not vote until 1962. Aboriginals were counted in all census beginning in 1911. It’s true that for finance purposes aboriginals were not counted for state funding but that had to do with federalism not racism.

    5 There were no stolen generations. Dozens of court cases have established this. The only stolen generation case which did succeed did so because it proved there was no government policy of stolen generation. This was Bruce Trevorrow.

    The tragedy for Liz is that she has been used and had her head filled with garbage by the aboriginal industry which does not give a shit about aboriginals and is content to have them live in squalor because it suits their purpose of having a perpetual victim to use to beat up Australian society.

  45. Frank Avatar
    Frank

    That Karvelas vs Mundine interview linked earlier, I thought we had moved on from whitey badgering the uppity blacks on their role in things. Apparently not.

  46. Perth Trader Avatar
    Perth Trader

    JC….a lot of political speeches are just NOISE..or a politician will missunderstand the message from a population and sound off track, to a point of sounding from a different ‘planet’ when commenting. Prices speech hit all the right notes last night….as a side comment I really like listening to and being entertained by Trump.

  47. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    Hmm
    This list has been posted on JoNova – perhaps JC would have a comment.
    Can we avoid encouraging these conglomerates in any way?
    ………….
    Companies based in Australia that promoted the YES campaign:

    ANZ (Major shareholders are Black Rock and Vanguard Group)
    CBA (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    NAB (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    Westpac (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    Coles (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    Woolworths (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group and BlackRock)
    Wesfarmers (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group and BlackRock)
    Telstra (Top shareholder group = BlackRock)
    Qantas (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    BHP (73% owned by American investors)
    Newcrest Mining (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group and BlackRock)
    Rio Tinto (Top shareholder group = BlackRock and China)
    Transurban (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)
    Woodside Energy (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group and BlackRock)
    Atlassian (Top shareholder group = Vanguard Group)

    Who owns Vanguard?
    ……………….

  48. Robert Sewell Avatar

    After the last few months of unrelenting attack from the Yes people, I’m not feeling conciliatory at all.
    Instead, whenever I get the opportunity to verbally piss on them, I will do so.
    I want to make them regret the abuse I’ve copped from them so they don’t do it ever again.
    (Yes, I know they won’t stop being abusive, it’s in their DNA, but up their collective arseholes.)

  49. Dot Avatar

    Who owns Vanguard?

    Institutional and individual retirement funds and small-time index investors.

  50. Bar Beach Swimmer Avatar
    Bar Beach Swimmer

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12630037/Voice-referendum-results-NSW-VIC-Qld-WA-SA-TAS-exit-poll.html

    From the Daily Mail website:

    A statement released by ‘A week of silence for the Voice’: Indigenous Australians speak out
    A group of Indigenous Australians who supported the Voice have issued a two-page statement vowing to begin a week of silence beginning tonight.

    This time will be used to ‘grieve this outcome and reflect on its meaning and significance’.

    The group said: ‘We will be lowering our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags to half-mast for the week of silence to acknowledge this result. We ask others to do the same.’

    This time will be used to ‘regather strength and resolve’, to begin looking toward the future and consider a new path forward.

    ‘To our people we say: do not shed tears. This rejection was never for others to issue.

    ‘The truth is that we offered this recognition and it has been refused. We now know where we stand in this our own country. Always was. Always will be.’

    The group said the reasons for this ‘tragic outcome’ will be ‘dissected in the weeks, years and decades to come’.

    ‘Much will be asked about the role of racism and prejudice against Indigenous people in this result. The only thing we ask is that each and every Australian who voted in this election reflect hard on this question.’

    Flags flying at half mast is a signal of distress. But this country is not in distress. All that has happened is that the people have spoken.

    So why announce a lowering of the Aboriginal flag and asking others to do the same. Even Luigi at his speech last night noted the one vote-one value basis of our representative democracy. But this goes over the heads of this group?

    OK, if they want to sook, well, so be it. But asking others to do the same? Why? Were that to be taken up then any organisation who followed that direction would be asserting an antidemocratic position and despite their own customers, clients, shareholders, employees and suppliers having voted on average 60-40 against the referendum.

    So what this direction shows is this group’s continuation of a power struggle over the rest of us. By directing flags to be flown at half mast the group seeks to maintain a visual power display. This of course should be rejected. Instead, every aboriginal flag flying over any organisation other than their own should permanently come down.

  51. Perth Trader Avatar
    Perth Trader

    LINDA BURNEY……resign now..WE AUSTRALIANS WANT YOUR LETTER OF RESIGNATION ON OUR DESK 9.00 AM MONDAY MORNING. YOU FAILED.

  52. win Avatar
    win

    The Prime Ministers face has always had the characteristics of a squashed prune but the now grim down turned mouth needs to have a portrait painted and entered for the Archibald. Just in case we forget.

  53. Tintarella di Luna Avatar
    Tintarella di Luna

    Hmm
    This list has been posted on JoNova – perhaps JC would have a comment.
    Can we avoid encouraging these conglomerates in any way?
    ………….

    Anyone know which Churches publicly supported the YES vote?

  54. Bar Beach Swimmer Avatar
    Bar Beach Swimmer

    cohenite, on the massacres and genocides, see this video from dark-emu exposed – 7 mins

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7s45W0hCTc

  55. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    Megan, in Jagajaga the postals are 60% NO. If the prepolls are the same the final result in Jagajaga might be closer than you think.

    True. I won’t be waiting with bated breath though. It’s been a safe Labor seat, state and federal since inception. We sent Jenny Macklin to Caberra for our sins.

  56. Morsie Avatar
    Morsie

    Credlin for all her faults was quite incisive last night making the point that the big lesson from this awful thing is for the Liberals, namely that if you pick a principle and stand up for it you will succeed.
    Unfortunately I dont think at least at state level, many will heed the lesson. Here in Victoria , the Libs are still hoping to “Bradbury ” themselves into government by keeping a low profile and hoping that the other side will fall over.
    Hopefully Dutton takes the lesson to heart over energy.

  57. Bourne1879 Avatar
    Bourne1879

    The most senior Qld Federal Labor MP is Treasurer Jim Chalmers. His seat of Rankin voted 65% no which is higher than state average.

    Also interesting to note Liberals Julian Lesser and Bridget Archer from TAS who were strong Yes campaigners did not even get support from their own electorates. Their party organisers should be looking to replace them.

    A major point I noted was how little involvement there was from State Liberal leaders in the No campaign. They were either for Yes or not wanting to get involved (ie. Qld). The only Liberal Premier in TAS supported Yes. This shows a major disconnect with their base. Even worse when you consider they knew polling was showing strong support for No.

    Special mention must go to the minor parties like One Nation, UAP and LDP. One Nation did more for the No campaign than the whole of the Liberal state parties. Pauline had her cartoons but also a good researcher who dug up some good clips from Yes campaigners. The media, naturally, is overlooking her and other minor parties contribution.

    No wonder Liberals are losing members to the minor parties of they don’t even campaign on such a major issue.

  58. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    Credlin for all her faults was quite incisive last night making the point that the big lesson from this awful thing is for the Liberals, namely that if you pick a principle and stand up for it you will succeed.

    The big lesson, eh…are they teachable?

  59. dopey Avatar
    dopey

    Yesterday – Majority vote No because they don’t appreciate moral blackmail. Today – Yes camp serve up more moral blackmail.

  60. bons Avatar
    bons

    I look forward to the individual booth results being released.
    Despite my electorate bringing in a resounding NO, I feel that my booth will be a strong YES.
    It is a teacher, public servant, trougher, council people and retirement home area.
    Most of our volunteers were from outside the booth’s catchment.
    The local mega-rich folks probably voted postal from their little place in Cannes.

  61. Sancho Panzer Avatar
    Sancho Panzer

    Heidi Murphy on 3AW running the “Dutton is damaged by negativity” line.
    Murphy and Nick McCallum beating the “Teal seats are gone forever”.
    Senator James Paterson pointing out the great swathes of ALP seats which voted No.
    Crickets.

  62. Big_Nambas Avatar
    Big_Nambas

    The big lesson, eh…are they teachable?

    No they are not. The Liberal party of today is well left of center full of bed wetters and cloimet choinge believers. No hope.

  63. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Jacinta Price has put forward an outline plan for how to actually address Aboriginal disadvantage.

    In a properly organised state, assuming there is genuine interest in ‘closing the gap’, this might form the basis for a forward plan to try to heal wounds and achieve something positive out of Albanese’s train wreck.

    Unfortunately very, very unlikely because:

    • Labor has an internal political process to go through which is far more important to Labor careers than doing governing;

    • ‘Not thought of here’ – the current political meme is that No was the direct result of Coalition bastardry and misinformation, so thought leaders will be incapable of accepting a Coalition suggestion for a bi-partisan approach;

    • First Nations industry is in the grip of sorry business for an indefinite period and won’t touch toys tossed back in the cot.

    As Megan points out at 9:50AM, the Aboriginal takeaway is that mainstream Australia would like them to FOAD, so rational gubba engagement without community leadership is going to be [ahem] problematic.

    Sadly, for the foreseeable, indigenous disadvantage is likely to take a distant back seat to the games and passions of Top Men.

    As an aside, I deeply hope that snivelling wretch Albanese suffers dreadfully in his jocks over this. The Referendum was terrible at all points of design and contact – and he was the Ringmaster.
    Inescapably.

  64. Bar Beach Swimmer Avatar
    Bar Beach Swimmer

    Megan @ 9:56am on Jacinta.

    Give her the portfolio she was born for and let her demonstrate her strengths and bring about the changes that can make a difference.

    Last night on the NITV coverage Barnaby Joyce was asked why the last Coalition government had not done and audit of the monies going to the aboriginal cause industry., since now Coalition members were now calling for one.

    Andrew Clennell also asked Michaelia Cash this question this morning on Sky. Both Joyce and Cash said that it would have been impossible to undertake one, and both alluded to claims of racism had the government of the day pursued that course. Now, however, with Price in that shadow portfolio and, fingers crossed, holding that portfolio after the next election, this will happen, as Cash asserted.

  65. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    hzhousewife
    Oct 15, 2023 10:48 AM

    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market. I don’t think they are even separate entities – they own each other and pretty much exert their control over anything they can insert their sticky fingers into. They are well on the way to owning everything.

    I hadn’t realised how embedded they were in the Australian corporates. It’s concerning. The co-ordinated Digital Currency push along with control of content on digital platforms in the West points to something more malevolent than mere co-incidence attempting to keep us controlled and silent.

    What the end goal is and how it manifests, I have absolutely no idea. We are just passengers on the bus and I suspect we always have been.

  66. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    Both Joyce and Cash said that it would have been impossible to undertake one, and both alluded to claims of racism had the government of the day pursued that course.

    Cowardice in the face of leftist bullying.

  67. PK Avatar
    PK

    Hubris writ large. The socialist left cabal in government think that they were elected because the electorate wanted to sing from their hymn book. They couldn’t countenance the fact that they only won the election because ScoMo was on the nose. They won the election on the back of one of the lowest if not the lowest primary votes on record, around 33%. The result yesterday should be a harbinger of a return to sane government. With the dearth of available talent, I won’t be holding my breath.

  68. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    How odd. It’s almost like the Yessers weren’t being honest with us.

    Seats with high Indigenous populations abandon Voice to Parliament as Australians reject referendum proposal in landslide (15 Oct)

    While individual electorates had no weighting on the result, Sky News Australia’s analysis of the votes showed the five seats with the largest Indigenous population all voted No.

    More than 40 per cent of the seat’s population is Indigenous, according to 2021 Census data, with 48,000 First Nations peoples living in the vastly spread electorate.

    But despite the Yes23 campaign consistently referring to polls which showed more than 80 per cent of First Nations peoples wanted a Voice to Parliament enshrined in the constitution, more than 60 per cent of Lingiari voters rejected the proposal.

    The Western Australian seat of Durack has an Indigenous population of 30,000, but the seat overwhelmingly opposed the advisory body with 71 per cent voting No.

    The figures come in stark contrast to the Yes campaign’s primary message to voters that the proposal was resoundingly supported by Indigenous Australians.

    Gaslighting only works until light finally shines upon the lie.

  69. PK Avatar
    PK

    And more directly on the referendum.
    Thank God that’s over. The only thing worse than a “no” vote would have been a “yes” vote. Either way we end up with half the population calling the other half intransigent racial bigots lacking in good grace, compassion and good manners. A pox on all those who brought this forward. You wouldn’t know your arses from your Albos. Money could have been well spent elsewhere. The whole exercise has caused damage and will continue to cause damage for a while.

  70. Rafe Champion Avatar

    Albos speech.
    Lipstick on a pig.
    And a flimsy attempt at whimsy, sitting in the dirt with grannies.
    Did he listen to the grannies for advice on the endemic sexual abuse and violence against children and women in the remote communities?

  71. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    bons
    Oct 15, 2023 11:18 AM
    I look forward to the individual booth results being released.

    bons

    you can see individual polling booth results on aec tally room website
    https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/ReferendumUpdatedByDivision-29581.htm

  72. Anders Avatar
    Anders

    Last night on the NITV coverage Barnaby Joyce was asked why the last Coalition government had not done and audit of the monies going to the aboriginal cause industry., since now Coalition members were now calling for one.

    Are they going to ask Labor politicians past and present why they’ve been ignoring Aboriginal voices and needed to bring in a special Constitutional body to force themselves to listen to them?

  73. Vicki Avatar
    Vicki

    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market. I don’t think they are even separate entities – they own each other and pretty much exert their control over anything they can insert their sticky fingers into. They are well on the way to owning everything.
    I hadn’t realised how embedded they were in the Australian corporates. It’s concerning.

    The increasing politicisation of these major corporations has escaped general attention, and has only become apparent when they buoycott organisations and others who support issues they don’t. The moral superiority of the boards of these entities is staggering. It is also staggering that shareholders are self-centred enough to support them.

  74. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    No joy in a simple and obvious prediction coming to reality. Here come the Greens:

    The disappointing Referendum outcome follows a corrosive misinformation campaign emboldened by Peter Dutton, say the Greens, and demonstrates the urgent need for truth-telling in the pursuit of First Nations justice.

    Dorinda Cox tells us the agenda for the Green-ALP coalition:

    “This nation needs to have an honest and informed discussion about its history so we can speak the truth, heal and move forward together. We need Truth Telling, as well as Treaties built on the recognition of our inherent sovereignty.

    “The Greens are committed to the ongoing fight for transformative change; for justice, self-determination and Sovereignty through truth-telling and Treaty, implementation of UNDRIP, protecting Country, heritage, languages and culture.”

    The Jolly Roger run up the mast.

  75. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7s45W0hCTc

    The most extreme case of such was Forrest River – “Maybe two, maybe three hundred blackfellas shot and burned by a police party” – the forensic evidence amounted to some shell casings, not from a police issue rifle, some bones which no-one was prepared to identify as human, and a few campfire sites, big enough to boil the billy for a cup of tea.

  76. Bruce Avatar
    Bruce

    “Mr Mansell called on Anthony Albanese to now progress Treaty and designated Indigenous seats in parliament”.

    Is that the same Michael Mansell who is descended from an “African” American sailor who jumped ship in Tasmania?

  77. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    “The Greens are committed to the ongoing fight for transformative change; for justice, self-determination and Sovereignty through truth-telling and Treaty, implementation of UNDRIP, protecting Country, heritage, languages and culture.”

    Sounds like an election winning formula.

    Go, Dorinda!

  78. Vicki Avatar
    Vicki

    Sadly, for the foreseeable, indigenous disadvantage is likely to take a distant back seat to the games and passions of Top Men.

    Yes – this is so culturally ingrained, that it will take some time for it to change. But change it will.

  79. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Is that the same Michael Mansell who is descended from an “African” American sailor who jumped ship in Tasmania?

    The same Michael Mansell who denied that Bruce Pascoe was of Aboriginal ancestry, and he should stop saying he was?

  80. JC Avatar
    JC

    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market.

    No, they don’t control the markets. They’re large, but they have no control over markets.

    The US bond market is the size of the US accumulated deficit, which is US$33 trillion. Their combined ownership of is nowhere near this figure.

    That’s not to say that at least 2 of those names aren’t repugnant because they are. However, people can move their accounts to other firms as it’s as easy as anything.

    Also, controlling markets means the many individual fund managers at these firms would have to take orders from above, in terms of their investment decisions. This doesn’t occur.

    Vanguard for instance is mostly known for their passive investment strategy, so by definition they don’t control the market and in fact the market controls their returns.

  81. Rufus T Firefly Avatar
    Rufus T Firefly

    Cassie of Sydney
    Oct 14, 2023 10:05 PM
    I have to say, I’ve been impressed by Littleproud.

    Huge fan Cassie, but you only need to recall what this prick said in 2021.
    F*&k him!

    NEVER forget!

  82. caveman Avatar
    caveman

    Son of Elbow vows to avenge his father’s failure , as soon as he racks up enuff frequent flyer points.

  83. Bourne1879 Avatar
    Bourne1879

    Lydia Thorpe having a go at Marcus Stewart. Via Herald Sun.

  84. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    Thanks for the link hzhousewife.
    My electorate (Fairfax, Qld) – 65% NO.
    Good job, people. (I thought it would be closer).

    Has the referendum applied the defibrillator to the Drooling Zombies (Libs)? No. It’s past time to finally bury that carcass.

  85. Gabor Avatar
    Gabor

    I have to say, I’ve been impressed by Littleproud.
    Huge fan Cassie, but you only need to recall what this prick said in 2021.

    What did he say?

  86. Katzenjammer Avatar
    Katzenjammer

    Jack Latimor
    As millions of Australians cast their vote on Saturday, my concern was how I’d explain the nation’s decision to my kids if the Voice was rejected.

    Tell them the Constitution has legal consequences that children wouldn’t understand. And include yourself. It’s not doggeral on a sentimental greeting card.

  87. Cliff Boof Avatar
    Cliff Boof

    Comment from “The RiotACT” website this morning regarding the electorate I voted in. Bean covers the southern part of the ACT.

    “Tilly
    10:19 am 15 Oct 23
    I don’t get it. Counted BEAN votes from 3 ballot boxes. Our box was about 1,800 NO to 1,500 YES. Same with the other tables. More NO than YES. What gives?”

  88. Lysander Avatar
    Lysander

    The Dutton “negativity” line means the MSM is scared sh!less of him. Good, they used the same talking points against Abbott’s push against Gillard.

  89. Dot Avatar

    Huge fan Cassie, but you only need to recall what this prick said in 2021.
    F*&k him!

    Like what?

    30% of voters never voted in the last Federal election?
    All WTC debris was shipped off to China?
    Israel and the US knew about 9/11 and 10/7?

    No, that was you, you goddamned fruit loop.

  90. JC Avatar
    JC

    Balckrock = $10 trillion
    Vangaurd = $ 8 trilion
    State Street = $3.5 trillion

    I suspect 50% of Vanguard is passive. 30% of Blackrock and 30% of State Street.

    Total = 10 X 30% +3.5 X30% + 8 X50% /= $13.5 trillion non passive investments.

    Global equity market = $100 trillion
    Global bond market = $132 trillion.

    Their non-passive investments is around 6% of the global markets. 6% controls shit.

  91. bons Avatar
    bons

    hzhousewife.
    Thank you.
    It was pretty much as expected but pehaps a little more dire in a couple of unexpected booths.
    The town booths and tree changer booths voted YES or close to.
    Rural booths overwhelmed them.
    My booth, to my great surprise, didn’t go YES. Obviously it was my influence.
    Wasted emotion.

  92. Perth Trader Avatar
    Perth Trader

    F–k Littleproud….his a weasel. During the Live Export ban on sheep he was to scared to come to WA to show solidarity with West Aussie farmers. He was to afraid to confront Alana. Never Forget Ya Friends or Enemies.

  93. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Lydia Thorpe having a go at Marcus Stewart. Via Herald Sun.

    What was the old joke about the unspeakable vs the uneatable?

  94. Big_Nambas Avatar
    Big_Nambas

    Having spent more than 40 hours over 11 days on a pre polling booth and Saturday 10 hours on polling booth, I talked to hundreds of voters maybe over a thousand. The number one reason stated for voting NO was that they were expected to vote for something that they had no information on.
    I listened to ” I wouldn’t buy a house without looking inside” over and over again.

    Australians just aren’t as stupid as Labor thinks they are!

  95. Brislurker Avatar
    Brislurker

    Companies based in Australia that promoted the YES campaign:

    Thank you for this, it explains so much. I had no idea that Blackrock and Vanguard had so much investment in Australia, America yes Australia not idea. No wonder the big corporations and businesses were for the voice. Also explains the attitude of ANZ and some of their decisions.

    As to the churches, the Catholics in Brisbane were urged to vote “Yes” and it was mandated by the Archbishop that the acknowledgement statement be read at every mass. Eventually our PP got wind of the backlash among parishioners and addressed it head on and now it is not read put posted in the power point presentations., The Archbishop is quite left wing.

  96. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    Not a peep about the Voice ever in the Catholic parish I attend in Melbourne, or the one I visited a couple of times in Canberra lately.

  97. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    Huge thanks to all who manned booths and handed out leaflets and worked for the AEC yesterday and the weeks before. We needed you!
    Also thanks JC for a bit of financial perspective.
    And Cliff, that RIOTACT website is a hoot. The sadly misinformed are getting quite a few enlightening comments thrown their way, even in Canberra and surrounds this morning. I feel reassured that not everyone is stupid after all.

  98. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Sounds like an election winning formula.
    Go, Dorinda!

    Certainly not election winning for Team Albanese – far, far from it.

    But for Dorinda and the Greens? This is preaching to the choir – they have nothing to fear and everything to gain by boosting their credentials with the Green Faithful and hopefully flaking off a few disgruntled ‘doctors wives’ from the majors.

    The Greens have well-established form in conflating issues. Albanese/Wong can get ready for Uluru demands linked to safe passage of ALP agenda in the run up to the 2025 election.

  99. Mark from Melbourne Avatar
    Mark from Melbourne

    For my sins, I was contained within an almost-all Teal-electorate bubble Friday / Saturday. Not to suggest they were Teal voters – they very much mostly weren’t – but all they’d heard was Teal.

    Higgins and Kooyong, mainly.

    They were genuinely worried. On Friday night, I had the devil of a job calming a few of them down. My prediction of 35/65 (sadly, I came up a bit short there, but I’ll claim “close” once the postals are in) did little to ease the nerves. Nor did the odd good drop of Heathcote wine.

    The relief was palpable last evening as the early results came in. Never quite seen so many mobiles in use at a dinner function as between 6:30pm and 9:00pm. As an aside, the Oz was clearly the source of choice…

    As a birthday present to myself, I am now spending an afternoon watching replays of both righteous anger (Mundine, Credlin, etc) and snivelling, passive aggressive upset (Kenny, ABC, etc).

    Only made sweeter by the NZ result. Actually, that was (I hope… I hate NZ electoral law, which I find near impossible to comprehend) even better, if the execrable Peters can be excluded. Which I’d not even considered an option.

    Only lessened by the fact that, to my shame, my electorate voted 75% for. Melbourne… sad.

  100. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    ‘Progress’ despite defeat of voice referendum
    Staff writers
    Staff writers

    Representatives from the First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria have shared their heartbreak following an unsuccessful yes vote at Saturday’s referendum, with the focus now on negotiating a Treaty with the state government.

    Despite the result, Aboriginal Advancement League Chief Executive Officer Aunty Esme Bamblett said constitutional reform was not the “only show in town” revealing a Treaty would be negotiated by early next year in Victoria.

    “Here in Victoria we are making great progress in the Treaty, we are going to be negotiating a Treaty early next year,” Aunty Esme said.

    “The process we’ve established for negotiating treaties will put decision making power directly into the hands of Aboriginal communities at a local level.

    “That’s what we are focused on and we are going to get the job done.”

    A Treaty in Victoria would not revolve around an advisory body, rather, a “wholesale” transfer of power back into Aboriginal hands according to Aunty Esme.

    “We know the referendum has been hard going for the community. We fought really hard to get the referendum up,” she said.

    “Despite not getting the result we wanted here, we know that we can now leverage all that effort and energy to move onto what we are trying to do here in Victoria.”

    After seven years of formal process, four years as the assembly, First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria co-chair Rueben Berg said they would push on and secure “Treaty outcomes” which he confirmed would include a financial component.

    Mr Berg described the Treaty as an agreement between First Peoples and the state of Victoria to make Indigenous people more autonomous over decisions that affect them.

    “These are agreements, that at the heart of it, are going to be about making sure there are decisions that First Peoples can be making on their own,” he said.

    As part of the decision making process, Mr Berg said a financial component, paid out to the assembly and traditional owners, would be “needed” in the negotiation with the Victorian government.

    “That’s obviously going to be a factor in how we have these conversations. If we are talking about decision making being transferred over to First Peoples, there is going to need to be a financial component to that.”

    He said that was just a factor in the negotiations the assembly would have with government to determine the “best way forward” for Indigenous people and the wider Victorian community.

    The aim of the Treaty, according to Mr Berg, would see the government create a framework where decisions made can be transferred over to First Peoples.

    “That needs to be done, like all decisions, in an accountable way, in fair ways, and that’s what we are striving for here in Victoria,” he said.

    Housing, justice, education, employment, land and water management were all listed as areas a Treaty would generate more impactful decision making.

    “The way we’ve set up the process doesn’t preclude us from entering into negotiations with the Commonwealth as well,” he said.

    “The Commonwealth can be a party to our negotiations, alongside the state, and I would imagine their would be similar opportunities across the rest of the nation with other states progressing their own treaties.”

    Aunty Esme wanted to especially thank young people, Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, for turning up to help at polling booths and for those that voted yes.

    “There’s no beating around the bush, the referendum results hurts, it really does,” she said.

    She said people were in “mourning” following the result, adding that the decision would take time to absorb and urged those affected to be gentle to themselves and others.

    – Fergus Ellis

  101. Megan Avatar
    Megan

    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market.

    No, they don’t control the markets. They’re large, but they have no control over markets.

    You’re right, JC. My understanding of financial markets is basic at best and non-existent at worst. My explanation of what I’m observing was far too generalised as a consequence of that gap in understanding.

    I was trying to say that I see them avaricious and manipulative and they have a definite foothold within Australian corporates and global technology companies. I doubt they are using that influence for the good of the rest of us.

  102. alwaysright Avatar
    alwaysright

    A big round of applause for our pineapple producers who are heading towards 70% no.

  103. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Mr Berg described the Treaty as an agreement between First Peoples and the state of Victoria to make Indigenous people more autonomous over decisions that affect them.

    Unaccountable things, agreed behind closed doors, lubricated by OPM, without reference to the citizenry?

    Will likely pass unremarked in Victoria.

  104. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    JC
    Oct 15, 2023 11:56 AM
    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market.

    No, they don’t control the markets. They’re large, but they have no control over markets.

    The US bond market is the size of the US accumulated deficit, which is US$33 trillion. Their combined ownership of is nowhere near this figure.

    That’s not to say that at least 2 of those names aren’t repugnant because they are. However, people can move their accounts to other firms as it’s as easy as anything.

    Sold out of Black Rock years ago.

  105. hzhousewife Avatar
    hzhousewife

    A Treaty in Victoria would not revolve around an advisory body, rather, a “wholesale” transfer of power back into Aboriginal hands according to Aunty Esme.

    I suggest they start out small, and begin by just running a small business themselves, or a small hospital, all staff and patients being aboriginal, for example. Once they are successful at that kind of thing, then they can gradually take over the state. But I advise Aunty Esme to go slowly, and perhaps she could begin by defining who is an Aboriginal.

  106. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Queenslanders voted against the Voice to Parliament — more than any other state or territory in Australia

    Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said she respects the decision of the people.

    “This wasn’t the right way. I acknowledge the strong feedback,” she said in a statement.

    “But that won’t stop our efforts to bring justice, reconciliation and material improvement to the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.”

    Translation: La La La- not listening.

    Other people in the Tower of Power may feel quite differently. If you extract the three Metro seats, the epicentre of Queensland Greenery, the map shows that there is the slight issue of 70%+ of the population not sharing the Palacechook enthusiasm.

    Nobody invested in the ALP is keen for 16 years in Opposition.

  107. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    …the map shows that there is the slight issue of 70%+ of the population not sharing the Palacechook enthusiasm.

    Many of whom won’t yet be aware that Anna has initiated the treaty process.

  108. damon Avatar
    damon

    The population is sick of ‘aboriginality’. Give it a rest for maybe 2-3 years.

  109. cohenite Avatar
    cohenite

    cohenite, on the massacres and genocides, see this video from dark-emu exposed – 7 mins

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7s45W0hCTc

    henry reynolds is a lying POS.

  110. JC Avatar
    JC

    Sold out of Black Rock years ago.

    I couldn’t because of cap gains tax. They stuck an ESG sticker on an existing ETF. I wanted to take legal action but was talked out of it by a lawyer type because it would be costly and get nowhere. I did phone ream them though.

    It’s just so wrong going ESG on an existing fund.

  111. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    cohenite
    Oct 15, 2023 1:20 PM
    cohenite, on the massacres and genocides, see this video from dark-emu exposed – 7 mins

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7s45W0hCTc

    henry reynolds is a lying POS.

    You exaggerate his intellectual honesty.

  112. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    I don’t suppose any of those industry, sports and political leaders will revisit their assumptions regarding the majority of Australia, and apologise.

    When does the penny drop with these people that they do not hold mainstream values and ideas?

  113. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    …the map shows that there is the slight issue of 70%+ of the population not sharing the Palacechook enthusiasm.

    Many of whom won’t yet be aware that Anna has initiated the treaty process.

    That’s true.
    Amazing how these things have to be done on a stealth basis. Secret politicians business – supported by the LNP.

    It’s almost as if they hate and fear us.

  114. rosie Avatar
    rosie

    A Treaty in Victoria would not revolve around an advisory body, rather, a “wholesale” transfer of power back into Aboriginal hands according to Aunty Esme.

    Power over who what where?
    They have the same power now as the rest of us.
    I can guarantee it will the right to control public works, access to public land, mining, farming, water rights, fishing and anything else you could imagine.

  115. Big_Nambas Avatar
    Big_Nambas

    I was surprised by the number of Aboriginal voters who approached me at the voting places and explained to me why they voted NO and thanked me for working on the NO campaign. I certainly never saw an Aboriginal person promoting YES.

  116. bons Avatar
    bons

    When will the penny drop.
    It will drop only when the pennies stop.
    My old OECD pal who was so dry he would make your toast curl, loved saying that you should never argue with subsidised or funded organisations. One quiet warning, then defund.
    Abbott started to do it with for example the ILO, but then allowed hinself to be driven by by the agendas of people who didn’t vote for him and hated him.
    He had the opportunity and support to cllip the ABC and AHRC but failed.

  117. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    Is there any truth to the rumour that the Qld treaty process is being referred to in inner circles as Chook-lotto?

  118. Jorge Avatar
    Jorge

    When does the penny drop with these people that they do not hold mainstream values and ideas?

    Jacinta accused the ABC of bias last week.

    But it needs someone to go in a lot harder. They need to be called out aggressively and a big part of it should be their failure to present two sides of any debate. Instead of answering their accusations (misinformation, lies etc) the tables should be turned and conservatives should be calling out the ABC as a left propaganda unit. Answer their question with this kind of j’accuse. They don’t allow the mainstream to be heard. So obvious after this weekend.

  119. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The further you get from Australia’s cities, the more clearly the country said No

    Sydney Moaning Hemorrhoid. Isn’t there a message there?

  120. Rockdoctor Avatar
    Rockdoctor

    On Queensland Treaty. When I get the chance Chrisifulli is going to hear my points on it and Dale Last in the Burdekin the only LNP polly within earshot of my electorate (being in Hinchinbrook a KAP electorate).

    At nearly 70/30 and most regional electorates upwards 75/25 I think he needs to be reminded we have spoken & this treaty should be dropped. Hopefully others put pen to paper too…

  121. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    Zulu,
    It’s not the content of the message, but who it originates from that matters to our opponents. Insiders. Outsiders.
    Outsiders (racist, individualist No voters) are ‘the enemy.’ Nothing outsiders say or do has any value. They can be ignored or attacked, simply for the reason they dare to exist. This is the mindset we’re facing.

  122. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    4 hours ago
    Sydney council flies Aboriginal flag at half-mast
    Alexi Demetriadi
    Alexi Demetriadi

    SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA – OCTOBER 13: An Australian Aboriginal Flag flies from a post in Redfern on October 13, 2023 in Sydney, Australia. A referendum for Australians to decide on an indigenous voice to parliament will be held on October 14, 2023 and compels all Australians to vote by law. Early voting began on Oct. 2, with voting getting underway in all states. (Photo by Jenny Evans/Getty Images)

    Sydney’s Inner West Council will fly Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flags at half-mast this coming week on all council buildings, its mayor has said.

    Inner West Mayor Darcy Byrne – whose council overlaps with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s seat of Grayndler – told The Australian the decision was out of “respect” for what Indigenous leaders had called for.

    “Leaders have proposed flags should fly at half-mast, and we will do so for the next week, out of respect for them,” the mayor said, urging other organisations to follow suit.

    The Inner West and Mr Albanese’s Grayndler overwhelmingly voted for Yes, with about 75 per cent of electors following the Prime Minister’s call for an Indigenous voice to parliament.

    Mr Byrne said he was “proud” of the role the area and its residents played in the campaign, and said while the high Yes turnout locally was pleasing, it was also “cold comfort”.

    The mayor, who is a close political ally of Mr Albanese, echoed the sentiments of the prime minister in his concession speech on Saturday night: a period of reflection before finding a new way.

    “The result is devastating but something special has been built on the thousands of people of goodwill who have chosen to walk in solidarity with Indigenous Australians,” Mr Byrne said.

    “We have to keep going, reflect, and then recommit ourselves to First Nations people … come back together and work out how we can use the momentum to continue the long struggle for justice.”

  123. Indolent Avatar
    Indolent

    Vanguard for instance is mostly known for their passive investment strategy, so by definition they don’t control the market and in fact the market controls their returns.

    Vanguard, Blackrock and StateStreet are interlinked, with Vanguard at the top. My understanding is that Vanguard is privately owned with actual ownership details unknown.

  124. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Sancus
    50 minutes ago
    I am sure they are all in there inner city haunts crying in their lattes today.

  125. Perfidious Albino Avatar
    Perfidious Albino

    The Govt will claim they have a ‘mandate’ but I would like to see the IPA or someone take this proposed ‘treaty’ between a ‘First Nations assembly’ and the State of Victoria all the way to the High Court. Surely can’t be legally robust.

  126. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    From the Open Thread

    Miltonf

    My understanding, open to correction, is that Computershare’s main business is maintaining shareholder records.

    If so, that business relies absolutely on trust. Even the faintest hint of fiddling with voting records would see that trust evaporate, and the main business go down the gurgler.

    Perhaps their bosses, unlike others, are focused on the main event, and will not risk that for a marginal benefit?

  127. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    Ditto

    local oaf
    Oct 15, 2023 2:17 PM
    I know nothing of stats, but wouldn’t say 30% of the NO vote have come from Labor people?

    AnAl got 32% of the primary vote last election, the Slime around 13%, and the Wood Ducks, who ran in only a few seats, perhaps a couple of percent in total.

    The Slime and Wood Ducks remained solid, giving around 15% between them, plus a couple of percent more from the seats that did not have Wood Duck candidates last year, adding up to around 17%. That leaves only around 23% of last time’s Liars voters staying loyal (less, IMHO, looking at the votes in solid Liar seats).

    So, at a guess, at least 9%, probably more, Labor voters abandoned AnAl.

  128. bons Avatar
    bons

    Everything they did before the vote screamed ‘we do not understand Australia but we know they will do whatever we tell them’.
    Fortunately that idiocy is being carried into the aftermath. The “this spells big trouble for Dutton” is so inane that it is just a foot shot’.
    They are saying that Australians are so stupid that they blindingly followed one moderately expresed critic of their scam. That will help you persuade the people you clowns.
    “He will be seen as negative”. By whom; journos? Ooh that will be bad?
    Dutton is not Abbott you idiots.
    They really want to attack Jacinta but lack the balls. Dutton is their substitute.

  129. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    1999 Australian republic referendum

    The Australian republic referendum held on 6 November 1999 was a two-question referendum to amend the Constitution of Australia.

    The first question asked whether Australia should become a republic, with a President appointed by Parliament following a bi-partisan appointment model which had been approved by a half-elected, half-appointed Constitutional Convention held in Canberra in February 1998.

    The second question, generally deemed to be far less important politically, asked whether Australia should alter the Constitution to insert a preamble acknowledging indigenous ownership prior to European arrival.

    Preamble referendum

    A Proposed Law: To alter the Constitution to insert a preamble.

    Do you approve this proposed alteration?

    Proposed preamble amendment:

    With hope in God, the Commonwealth of Australia is constituted as a democracy with a federal system of government to serve the common good.

    We the Australian people commit ourselves to this Constitution: proud that our national unity has been forged by Australians from many ancestries; never forgetting the sacrifices of all who defended our country and our liberty in time of war; upholding freedom, tolerance, individual dignity and the rule of law; honouring Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders, the nation’s first people, for their deep kinship with their lands and for their ancient and continuing cultures which enrich the life of our country; recognising the nation-building contribution of generations of immigrants; mindful of our responsibility to protect our unique natural environment; supportive of achievement as well as equality of opportunity for all; and valuing independence as dearly as the national spirit which binds us together in both adversity and success

  130. thefrollickingmole Avatar
    thefrollickingmole

    Leaders have proposed flags should fly at half-mast,

    Who elected them?

  131. Sancho Panzer Avatar
    Sancho Panzer

    I think the Yessirs are conceding that this won’t be saved by misplaced ticks and crosses now.

  132. Crossie Avatar
    Crossie

    Vanguard, Blackrock and State Street control the global financial market. I don’t think they are even separate entities – they own each other and pretty much exert their control over anything they can insert their sticky fingers into. They are well on the way to owning everything.

    They are not very popular in the US either, some Republican governors have banned them from investing in their states.

  133. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    The second question, generally deemed to be far less important politically, asked whether Australia should alter the Constitution to insert a preamble acknowledging indigenous ownership prior to European arrival.

    I’m remembering certain indigenous groups complaining – loudly – that they weren’t consulted as to the wording of the preamble..

  134. amortiser Avatar
    amortiser

    Wow, looking like 6-0 with the states.

    Just need to poll the full bench of the High Court to get another 7-0 result.

  135. Anders Avatar
    Anders

    Woohoo!

    Every state in Australia rejected the Voice to parliament on Saturday but only one state said No in all of its electorates.

    South Australia recorded a whopping 64.4 per cent No vote, the second highest in the country after Queensland.

    Even the state’s inner-city seats delivered tight No victories, while inner-city electorates in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane [and Hobart and Perth] backed Constitutional change.

  136. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    The Voice referendum live updates: Horror statistics will haunt the PM

    Two questions and some seriously ugly statistics reveal the worst for the Prime Minister a day after the humiliating Voice defeat.

    There’s been an emotional reaction across the country after Australians resoundingly voted No in the poll on Saturday, leaving Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to attempt to pick up the pieces.

    Aussies believe Albanese bungled the Voice

    News.com.au asked Australians whether they thought the government had bungled the Indigenous Voice to Parliament. And the response has been emphatic.

    By 2.30pm on Sunday, more than 19,000 people agreed there wasn’t enough information early on, while less than 3000 people agreed Australians were kept informed throughout the process, according to a reader poll with more than 22,000 votes.

    Results in a second poll show Australians put the blame for the referendum’s failure specifically on Anthony Albanese.

    More than 25,000 have said the Prime Minister should accept responsibility for the outcome, while less than 3500 Aussies said he shouldn’t accept responsibility.

    There’s more bad news for Mr Albanese. According to RedBridge Group director Kos Samaras, the Voice was a massive flop for Labor faithful, too.

    “Close to 80 per cent of Labor federal seats voted No,” Samaras posted on X, formerly Twitter, on Sunday.

    “Remove the ACT and Labor/Greens contest seats and that number climbs to 90 per cent. These numbers may get worse with one or two seats which a line ball in front on the Yes vote.”

    When asked why the No vote won, Mr Albanese appeared to lay the blame at the feet of the Liberal Party.

    “The analysis will go on for some time, no doubt. But the truth is that no referendum has succeeded without bipartisan support in this country,’’ he said.

    On Sunday morning Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles said the government took responsibility for the failure of the Voice referendum.

    Speaking on the ABC’s Insiders program, Mr Marles said the buck ultimately stopped with the government.

    “We take responsibility, as the prime minister did last night, for the referendum and we take responsibility for the outcome,” he said.

    Indigenous rivals engaged in ugly brawl

    Two of Australia’s most prominent Indigenous advocates have been involved in an ugly verbal stoush on live television, highlighting the country’s deep division in the wake of the referendum.

    During NITV’s coverage of the vote on Saturday night, academic Marcia Langton and aspiring politician Warren Mundine slung insults at each other, requiring host Narelda Jacobs to step in.

    Mr Mundine, who was one of the faces of the official No campaign, was talking about the reasons for the referendum’s overwhelming defeat when the slinging match kicked off.

    “They couldn‘t see anything, no one gave them details about how it was going to fix anything, it was almost like a magic wand,” he said.

    It’s at this point Jacobs interjected, saying Ms Langdon has “given the detail everybody needed” in a report she co-authored proposing how the Voice might be designed.

    “I‘m not going to take any comments from a person who thinks that we are a racist country, and that we are racist people,” Mr Mundine shot back.

    His comment was in reference to remarks Ms Langton made at a NAIDOC Week event in Brisbane in July, where she described “hard No” voters as either racist or stupid.

    Recording obtained by the media showed her saying: “Ordinary Australians are thinking, ‘Yes, of course I am voting for the Voice’ and that would be 48 to 49 per cent. Then there is hard No voters, and I am hoping they are about 20 per cent, and they are the ones spewing racism.”

    She also said: “‘Every time the No cases raise their arguments, if you start pulling it apart you get down to base racism, I’m sorry to say that’s where it lands, or sheer stupidity.”

    After that, other past public remarks made by Ms Langton emerged, including her description of conservatives Jacinta Price and her mother as “coloured help” and wishing a “slow, painful death” on Mark Latham.

  137. OldOzzie Avatar
    OldOzzie

    Stupid SA Labor Lemming Following AlboSleezy Off the Voice Cliff followed by Sicktoria Labor – Doubling down on Stupid

    SA Premier Peter Malinauskas has already legislated a state-based implementation of the Uluru Statement from the Heart – Voice, Treaty and Truth.

    But the resounding vote against the proposal – including in South Australia – has sparked calls to repeal the legislation.

    “South Australians have voted clearly against a Voice to Parliament and it’s now up to Peter Malinauskas to explain where to from here,” SA Opposition Leader David Speirs said.

    SA Premier Peter Malinauskas told Sunday Mail on Saturday night that the work would continue.

    “The Prime Minister honoured his commitment to put a constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to a vote in a referendum. Our democracy has now decided against that model – but the work at a federal level to close the gap on Indigenous disadvantage must continue.”

    Treaty in Victoria

    Meanwhile, Victoria is pressing ahead to become the first state to commence a treaty process with Aboriginal peoples.

  138. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    Boambee John
    Oct 15, 2023 3:32 PM

    You give good butchers’ paper.

    The fact that Mr 32%’s clever small target performance has pissed off 25%+ of his primary voters will not be missed in Plibbers’ Coven, or Goblin Shorten’s cave.

  139. Bourne1879 Avatar
    Bourne1879

    From The Oz. 73% !

    “A defiant Tasmanian Premier says he is “proud” to have been the nation’s most senior Liberal to “stand up” for the voice, despite 73pc of his own electorate voting No.

    Jeremy Rockliff, who has suffered a series of recent political blows and clings to minority government at the whim of independents, on Sunday said he had “no plans” for a state voice”.

  140. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    Secret politicians business – supported by the LNP.
    It’s almost as if they hate and fear us.

    Notable that this referendum is divided starkly by the progressives voting Yes vs the working people voting No.

    The yes electorates were all progressive, either progressive Labor, Greens or Teals.

    The no electorates were the workers, the tradies, the country people, either industrial Labor or Lib/Nat.

    What is most stark is that ALL the pollies in the major parties are in the former class – prog Labor and wet Liberal. Very few aren’t (eg. Canavan and Dutton). Only the minor parties offer an alternative to the elite politician class. And of course Donald Trump in the US.

    I hope this referendum will give the political class a bit of a wake up call. But sadly I doubt it will be so.

  141. Nelson_Kidd-Players Avatar

    Tintarella di Luna
    Oct 15, 2023 6:58 AM

    Is it too soon to start wearing a Dinosaur T-Shirt on a regular basis? Perhaps it is.

    As far as and dinosaurs and dickheads go…

    Once when I was still attending Sunday school a couple of the older boys and myself were seated in the room before the teacher came. One was relating to the other how he’d watched a movie that featured a penis-shaped dinosaur. A horrifying revelation to my young ears.

    Perhaps the concept could be resurrected for your t-shirt and if the illustration vaguely looks like Ray Martin, all the better.

  142. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    Marcia Langton today:

    “It will be at least two generations before Australians are capable of putting their colonial hatreds behind them and acknowledging that we exist.”

    You’d think some introspective silence would be advised to digest the result.

    Some reflection on what Jacinta Price was arguing and why it struck a chord wiht the electorate.

    No…we’re all racists.

  143. Dunny Brush Avatar
    Dunny Brush

    In hindsight- and only in hindsight – this whole thing, from soup to nuts, has been good viewing. Somebody up thread said the whole woke might be collapsing. There certainly seems to be reason for optimism. Shane Drumgold calling for that inquiry might have been the start of it…….

  144. Farmer Gez Avatar
    Farmer Gez

    Methuselah Langton.
    “colonial hatreds”
    Come on down Henry Parkes

  145. Tom Avatar
    Tom

    “A defiant Tasmanian Premier says he is “proud” to have been the nation’s most senior Liberal to “stand up” for the voice, despite 73pc of his own electorate voting No.

    Hey, Jeremy Rockliff, congratulations on becoming the last woke Stupid Frigging Liberal clown to lose office because you think LNP voters are stupid.

  146. Dr Faustus Avatar
    Dr Faustus

    “It will be at least two generations before Australians are capable of putting their colonial hatreds behind them and acknowledging that we exist.”

    And, and, and – I’ll never smile again.

    The woman is supposedly a professor and community leader. I realised she is disappointed that she’s not currently boarding the Voice gravy train, but disappointing that this is her contribution to dealing with the rubble left behind by the Referendum she participated in.

  147. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    Is a 60/40 vanquishing akin to going down like the Hindenburg, Cats?

    Not a single state into the bargain. Although a wonderful piece of tin eared idiocy from those eternal collectivist bludgers in Scamberra.

  148. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    It will be at least two generations before Ozzies are capable of putting their colonialist big bigotty bigoted hatreds behind them and acknowledging that we exist

    Not acknowledging the “we”.

    Not being a collectivist, you stupid racist loser. 🙂

    Oh – and sucked in!

  149. John Avatar
    John

    Only the minor parties offer an alternative to the elite politician class

    And yet, despite this, nearly everybody still insists on voting for the majors (Uniparty). It’s not at all strenuous putting the same number 1 against one of the freedom parties. Nowadays I favour Family First.

  150. amortiser Avatar
    amortiser

    Even though I liked what Price and Dutton said, they’re also clogged up too with the funneling money caper. Even though they’re pushing for an audit, the money funnel won’t stop as it just gets redirected and ends up being corrupted again. These people need to get the hell out of these remote areas and make a living by working – just like all Australians. There has to be an exit from these hellholes.

    For years Noel Pearson was critical of spending programs in Aboriginal Affairs. He wrote many policy monologues for the Centre for Independent Studies on the matter.
    Eventually governments listened to him and he received huge allocations (some say up to $550 million) for his pet projects in Cape York. Pearson proved himself a grifter par excellence. There is little if anything to show for that money. He now disparages the CIS whenever he can. His example demonstrates that care needs to be made in dealing with advocates in this area. There is a $40 billion honeypot which will attract the worst in people especially when there is no effective oversight of that spending.

    There are any number of these grifters in the space and this referendum has flushed them out. They have been exposed by Jacinta Price. They all wanted a place on the voice as protected species. None of those people should be allowed anywhere near any of these Aboriginal programs. The push must now be for full accountability before they spend another dollar.

  151. Robert Sewell Avatar

    Bruce of Newcastle
    Oct 15, 2023 4:52 PM
    Secret politicians business – supported by the LNP.
    It’s almost as if they hate and fear us.

    Notable that this referendum is divided starkly by the progressives voting Yes vs the working people voting No.

    The yes electorates were all progressive, either progressive Labor, Greens or Teals.

    The no electorates were the workers, the tradies, the country people, either industrial Labor or Lib/Nat.

    What is most stark is that ALL the pollies in the major parties are in the former class – prog Labor and wet Liberal. Very few aren’t (eg. Canavan and Dutton). Only the minor parties offer an alternative to the elite politician class. And of course Donald Trump in the US.

    I hope this referendum will give the political class a bit of a wake up call. But sadly I doubt it will be so.

  152. damon Avatar
    damon

    “It will be at least two generations before Australians are capable of putting their colonial hatreds behind them and acknowledging that we we exist.”

    When we have to have people telling us that they’re black, we have a problem.

  153. damon Avatar
    damon

    Worse. Some dim-witted politician or public servant declares he’s a ‘proud’ aboriginal, and everyone falls over in astonishment. Who the hell cares if Ray Martin ‘finds’ he’s 0.0 something percent aboriginal? I’m 0.0 something percent Sicilian. There’s no red carpet for me when I visit Italy. Give me a f’ng break. Stop this horseshit. Now.

  154. damon Avatar
    damon

    Seriously, why is there not a thread devoted to convicts, and their contributions to early Australia?

  155. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    Da Voice results show quite clearly that the ALP is aligned with inner city greens and progressives, not the average working (wo)man.

    When will those electorates wake up and ditch Labor?

  156. Davey Boy Avatar

    Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.

    ‘No’ means ‘no’.

  157. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    duncanm
    Oct 15, 2023 8:51 PM
    Da Voice results show quite clearly that the ALP is aligned with inner city greens and progressives, not the average working (wo)man.

    When will those electorates wake up and ditch Labor?

    When a non-leftard party talks to them, and demonstrates understanding of their problems.

    This happened in 1996, when Pauline Hanson was chucked out of the Liberals for non-PC comments. She still spoke up and went on to win Bill Hayden’s old, safe Labor, seat of Oxley.

    The lying MSM (BIRM) spent the next few years claiming that she won on Liberal votes, but it was for decades a safe (coal mining) seat. She won on the votes of very unhappy Labor voters, plus some Liberal votes. The same dynamic is now present in many suburban seats, there for the party that will listen.

  158. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Indigenous Voice to Parliament: WA regional towns record 92 per cent opposition to referendum
    Headshot of Caitlyn Rintoul
    Caitlyn Rintoul
    The West Australian
    Sun, 15 October 2023 5:29PM
    Caitlyn Rintoul

    A handful of WA regional towns recorded as high as 90 per cent opposition to the Voice referendum, with No campaigners linking the rejection to the State’s repealed Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Act.

    Agricultural lobby group boss and vocal opponent to the Act, Tony Seabrook, said the results highlighted the deep impact of the failed legislation.

    WA’s regional division of O’Connor posted a 76 per cent No vote to proposed constitutional change — the equal highest electorate alongside Canning in the State.

    One polling booth in the small O’Connor town of Lake King recorded the highest No vote in WA at 92.8 per cent.

    It was followed by the nearby farming community of Newdegate at 91.7 per cent, and the South West town of Duranillin at 91 per cent.

    Mukinbudin and Munglinup also registered a No vote above 90 per cent.

    More than 87 per cent of Wickepin voters opposed the Voice, as well as 84 per cent in Wyalkatchem, and 83 per cent at booths in Williams, Wellstead and Woodanilling.

    The high No poll in O’Connor was followed by the division of Durack, where more than 72 per cent opposed the Voice. In Hasluck, more than 60 per cent voted No.

  159. Louis Litt Avatar
    Louis Litt

    Screaming match with youngest daughter, she said thr voice was an advisory body next to parliament. Parliament could do what it liked with the advisory board next to it. This advisory board could not stop laws etc from going ahead.
    She also mentioned the inner city and wealthy suburbs were the residents voted yes were the well educated suburbs while the outer suburbs were where the un educated were.
    I need help in arguing against this

  160. Salvatore, Iron Publican Avatar
    Salvatore, Iron Publican

    Screaming match with youngest daughter, she said thr voice was an advisory body next to parliament.

    LL, perhaps begin with this:
    The referendum question made no mention of an advisory body.
    This “advisory body” talk was disinformation, or lies, to say it was such.

    The referendum question was for a body, the makeup & selection of members to be decided by parliament, a body to make representation to the parliament, and to the executive government, on matters pertaining to ATSI folk.

    This bestows upon that body a power to clog the passing of any legislation, & to clog the (already slow) wheels of government.

    It also does not exclude (thus includes) that the body may make representation on matters pertaining to ATSI that are currently state govt responsibilities, & turn these into federal responsibilities.

    It would have been the only constitutionally recognised lobby group in the nation, & one of the few (if any others) in the world.
    As such it would have had real power. How long would it have been before bad actors exploited that power for their own ends?

  161. damon Avatar
    damon

    Depending on how pretty she is (or thinks she is) you could ask her whether she thinks entitlements should be awarded on the basis of appearance. A win/win on either.

  162. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    This advisory board could not stop laws etc from going ahead.

    Didn’t Albo say it would be unremarkable unwise of-parliament to ignore any recommendations of the voice?

    You may also point out that there are those of us, who are reasonably wealthy and well educated, who don’t live in the city at all…

  163. Zulu Kilo Two Alpha Avatar
    Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

    Media Diary: ‘We‘re sharpening our spears’: triple j host slams voice decision
    triple j presenter Nooky. Photo: ABC.

    By jenna clarke
    Associate Editor
    10:37PM October 15, 2023
    No Comments

    The ABC‘s youth radio network triple j played Yothu Yindi’s song Treaty on loop for an hour on Sunday following the defeat the Yes campaign and its quest to enshrine an Indigenous voice to parliament.

    “Last night was the most overt, most unconcealed manifestation of racism I’ve ever experienced in my whole life,” triple j presenter Nooky said.

    Treaty was then played on repeat for the entire hour of Blak Out – the weekly show hosted by the Yuin and Thunghutti man.

    The program is dedicated each week to platforming new and emerging Indigenous artists. On Sunday Nooky chose to play Treaty for the whole show after expressing his hurt and disappointment at the result of the voice referendum.

    The 1991 song was the first song by an Aboriginal band to reach the mainstream music charts in Australia. It was originally released as a protest against the lack of a treaty with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, promised by then prime minister Bob Hawke’s signing of the Barunga Statement in 1988.

    Nooky said the song was now an important call to arms for Indigenous Australians.

    “We haven’t lost a thing. You all knew what the outcome was going to be. We all know the reality that we live in, it’s just now more apparent,” Nooky said.

    “We ain’t licking our wounds today, we’re sharpening our spears. See the colour of our skin, that’s our pride and joy and they could never change the river of our souls.

    “Our people are the most caring, welcoming, loving, generous, strong and resilient people. And in that darkness, where you hold the light, we always have the oldest culture on earth.

    “We have survived the white man’s world. We do not give up this land and the planting of the Union Jack has never changed our law at all and it’s that message of hope and survival that you’re gonna hear for the next hour.

    Triple J’s Nooky is as white as Snow White’s bum..As to the oldest culture on Earth, well that’s the San Bushmen of Southern Africa.

  164. amortiser Avatar
    amortiser

    Unfortunately I dont think at least at state level, many will heed the lesson. Here in Victoria , the Libs are still hoping to “Bradbury ” themselves into government by keeping a low profile and hoping that the other side will fall over.
    Hopefully Dutton takes the lesson to heart over energy.

    It must be remembered that Bradbury was good enough and talented enough to reach the Olympic final. Can we say the same about the Liberal Party?

  165. Alamak! Avatar

    she said thr voice was an advisory body next to parliament. Parliament could do what it liked with the advisory board next to it. This advisory board could not stop laws etc from going ahead.

    – ask her to check and confirm that high court could not rule on scope of Voice to make “representations” on existing or proposed laws (answer – it couldn’t becos thats its day job, per constitution)

    – ask her what would be the limits to Voice functions and powers, as described in proposed laws to be passed by Parliament
    (answer – unlimited and open to high court challenge if anyone in govt or parliament tries to limit the Voice in any way)

    – ask her what would stop Parliament assigning power to make and enforce laws (answer – nothing)

    – ask her how the supposed “Advisory” function would work in practice and what will stop policies being held hostage by the Voice (answer – Lord Acton on Power * Corruption)

    If she really think “educated” progressives understand all that perhaps she can ask Green/Labor/Teal MPs to provide the answers, which were not provided prior to voting.

  166. amortiser Avatar
    amortiser

    OldOzzie
    Oct 15, 2023 9:37 AM
    Still a lot of Polling to be counted – “Polling Place Counts Completed” – a lot of NO

    updates for today a few – will keep an eye on my Electorate Mackellar

    https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/ReferendumUpdatedByDivision-29581.htm

    The link has the booths listed but there are no results posted by booth.

  167. dover0beach Avatar

    Absolutely incredible results. 5 of the 6 states at or above 60% No, incl, NSW. And VIC at 55%. Wow. National, 61% No. Just wow.

  168. Mark from Melbourne Avatar
    Mark from Melbourne

    I need help in arguing against this

    No, actually, you don’t.

    Your position is surely that the people have decisively spoken, via what would appear to be a very clean, and very democratic, process.

    Her only tenable position, therefore, is to argue against the merits of the process, if she wants to argue anything.

    The decision has been made and is final. Now we all come together to move forward – some might say, “progress” – on the basis of that mutually-agreed decision.

    Good life lesson.

  169. Mark from Melbourne Avatar
    Mark from Melbourne

    National, 61% No. Just wow.

    I think it will be closer to 62.5% when all’s said and done, but still well shy of my 65% prediction.

    Melbourne has a lot to answer for… both the electorate and the city.

    Even looking at my two local booths… by crikey, I never realised how so many of the good folk (and good they are) in my local community are also complete numpties. Not quite as bad as the rest of the electorate, but still a good 70% Yes.

    Still, decision made, and on to the next thing!

  170. Mark from Melbourne Avatar
    Mark from Melbourne

    Craven in the Oz on the multiple failures of “Yes”…

    The fifth failure was the drafting. The amendment was formulated in secret. There was no input from constitutional conservatives, whose support for the draft during the referendum would be crucial. There was an absolute refusal to consider meaningful amendments. The inevitable result was an exhausting debate around drafting.

    I’ll translate, Greg.

    You were ignored, because the activists knew you didn’t have the balls to call them out. And, thus, you lost the debate (not something I’d have thought you’d do, given your track record as a debater), and for whatever reason, rolled over.

  171. Mark from Melbourne Avatar
    Mark from Melbourne

    OK, I have discovered why YES! failed, in just a few words…. from the Oz

    Former Kevin Rudd adviser and businessman Lachlan Harris provided high-level strategic communications advice, former Liberal Party federal director Tony Nutt and pollster Mark Textor gave political advice…

  172. Dino Saur Avatar
    Dino Saur

    Louis Litt

    It was sold to the people as merely an “advisory body” but due to it being in the Constitution , even under an additional chapter (which may, or may not, have validity) , it holds a “head of power”. Therefore while s129 (iii) implies Parliament has it under “control”, that control is limited by 129(i) and 129(ii). In other words, in my opinion, it could take many matters to the High Court whenever it wished.

    This whole drafting process appears to have not been sufficiently debated ,tested nor brought to the voters’ attention

    Additionally, Sancho on another thread wrote
    “Firstly, it is demonstrably true that da Voice was racially based. Non indigenes need not apply.”
    My reply to that was that does not appear to be how they intended the ammendment to operate.

    There was no stipulation that Aboriginal /Torres Strait Islanders were to be the only ones on the Voice. Indeed if you read this it has been expertly manipulated otherwise

    https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/learn/the-question.html

    Presumably the reasons include
    1. avoiding the racist tag,
    2. avoiding issues over just who is an Aboriginal
    3. allowing those with White Saviour Complex, membership
    4. allowing non indigenous “experts”, membership
    5 and so on

    One day, a High Court judge,  taking it on its plain language  (without resorting to any explanatory documentation) could even say that it was written so that Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islanders could be excluded as pursuant to section 51(xxvi) (the “race” law) if it was considered in their “best interest”, ect.

    Indeed, as written, did they mislead the Australian population,  especially those voting Yes?

     

  173. Dino Saur Avatar
    Dino Saur

    In case some don’t like hitting external links, here is Ch IX, s129 as reproduced from that Australian Electoral Commission site

    129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice

    In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:

    i. there shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;

    ii. the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;

    iii. the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.

    https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/learn/the-question.html

  174. Dino Saur Avatar
    Dino Saur

    Linda Burney, herself, saw the Voice as a serious negotiating tool, so not just giving “advisory” input. Ie, The Voice was to become The Negoriator.
    Hear her describe the process (sorry, another link) https://youtube.com/shorts/sgRPLzuuGE8?si=hCa_cKc-JcXO0c3h

  175. Katzenjammer Avatar
    Katzenjammer

    She also mentioned the inner city and wealthy suburbs were the residents voted yes were the well educated suburbs while the outer suburbs were where the un educated were.
    I need help in arguing against this

    Disadvantaged less educated people know advisors to parliament have never ended up helping them. Inner city well educated folk only know about poverty and disadvantage from books and statistics – no direct experience to know what does or doesn’t work.

    Ask her what her sources are for knowledge of Aboriginies – probably only stuff published in the last decade.

  176. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    Louis,

    the most cogent risk presented to me was ‘must the government wait for advice?’

    If the answer to that is ‘yes’, then right away, the voice body can effectively block parliament by delaying that advice, and therefore blackmail its will into legislation, funding, etc..

  177. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    Louis Litt
    Oct 15, 2023 10:21 PM

    Give your daughter an example – she wants to go out, or borrow the car. Tell her you need to seek her mother’s advice first. She is not allowed to directly approach her mother on the topic.

    Leave it at that for a few days.. and she might understand.

  178. Salvatore, Iron Publican Avatar
    Salvatore, Iron Publican

    Tell her you need to seek her mother’s advice first.

    … need to wait until her mother gives an advice….

  179. Kneel Avatar
    Kneel

    “The decision has been made and is final. Now we all come together to move forward – some might say, “progress” – on the basis of that mutually-agreed decision.”

    No, no, no!
    You plebs got it wrong. Therefore, we will continue to hold elections until you get it right!

    THAT’S how it works.

  180. Louis Litt Avatar
    Louis Litt

    Thanks everyone for your answers. Really really appreciate it. Dino Sourthak you for the tech answer.
    My daughter wouldn’t reason the seats with a large aboriginal pop voted No.
    Also to that Sisillian fellow who put in his analergyof going back to Sicily, no red carpet.
    Thanks cat team can’t thank youse enough

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