Open Thread – Mon 6 Nov 2023


All Souls Day in Rome, Jose Gallegos, late 19th century

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Muddy
Muddy
November 7, 2023 2:09 am

Four weeks ago.
It still boggles my mind.
How many of the hostages are still alive?
The reptiles have risen & their spawn froth with rage (only to fill a profound internal emptiness).
I don’t what any of that means, but at least I can see what is in front of me.

Muddy
Muddy
November 7, 2023 2:12 am

Know.
Don’t know.
The missing word.
My word, sleep would be amazing.
If conservatives cannot, will not, save what remains … Who will?

Muddy
Muddy
November 7, 2023 2:19 am

Welcome to Clowder D’Over. Your comment is important to us.

Muddy
Muddy
November 7, 2023 2:23 am

A serious comment now (tough in this state of mind): Do you think that even homo h@m@s is shocked at the extent of international public support?

This really isn’t looking good for the west, is it?

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 3:27 am

Muddy
Nov 7, 2023 2:23 AM


A serious comment now (tough in this state of mind): Do you think that even homo h@m@s is shocked at the extent of international public support?

I can only give you my opinion, how wide it is held I don’t know.

Someone in an old, old OT recalled a conversation with a German immigrant, about the brutal Nazi adherents in Germany in the 30s and later, asking him where did these people come from?

His answer was that they were always there but lacked the opportunity.

Same answer to your question, they were/are amongst us but hiding, now they find courage in strength of numbers and coming out of the woodwork.

This really isn’t looking good for the west, is it?

No it isn’t and I don’t like the future very much. Problem is that the governments while not actively supporting them, they do so tacitly via the police applying different policy to different groups.

Just look at the bold statements of the muslims in Belgium and Germany, the UK is already gone at least in parts.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 7, 2023 3:30 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:01 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:01 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:02 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:03 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:04 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:05 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:06 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:07 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:07 am
Tom
Tom
November 7, 2023 4:08 am
Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 4:40 am

Thanks for the toons Tom.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 7, 2023 5:34 am

This really isn’t looking good for the west, is it?

What did you expect? A very brief study of history shows that murdering foreigners is the natural occupation of mankind.

The West has encouraged a primitive and barbarous culture to come and take it over. The ignorant idiots welcoming ‘refugees’ didn’t see it that way, but anyone with half a brain could see it. Muslims despise us for being weak and degenerate, and they are right, we are. If we weren’t, we’d kick out every Muslim from our countries. Not because they are all bad people, most are kind and decent when they have small numbers and no power, but because their culture is primitive and based on a religion. Religious nutters are always bad people to have in charge. The Christians were bad enough when they had power, they are, again, mostly kind and decent as long as they have no power. When they do, they can be as murderous as any. Consult the Albigensians on this point.

Of course, we won’t kick the Muslims out. We haven’t the moral courage. We have permitted cowards and temporisers to take power; their objectives are to feather their own nests, and to hell with Western civilisation. So that’s where we are headed.

There’s nothing you or I can do about it; just enjoy the decadence while you can. Smoke, drink and be merry, for shortly we will be one with Rome, Nineveh and Tyre.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 7, 2023 5:48 am

First reviews of Elon’s chatbot are coming in.

Liberals Shocked About Musk’s Non-Woke Chatbot (7 Nov)

Meanwhile, corporate media and progressives are beginning to have meltdowns over the anti-woke bot.

Here’s what Business Insider had to say:

Elon Musk’s new AI chatbot launched on Saturday — and it appears to have the personality of a foul-mouthed Twitter troll.

Liberals at BI can’t handle cuss words?

Grok appears to be far more foul-mouthed than rivals such as OpenAI’s ChatGPT or Anthropic’s Claude, and users seem to be able to prompt it to be “more vulgar” if they want to increase the amount of swearing and X-rated content.

A demo shared by an xAI employee Toby Pohlen suggested that the chatbot will have a regular setting and a “fun mode.”

Grok’s limited launch comes about a week after President Biden signed an ambitious executive order on AI safety. Washington’s goal might be to crush the counter-bot movement since their politically-aligned tech companies can’t censor non-approved narratives.

As for liberals, some will have panic attacks because Musk’s non-woke chatbot will jeopardize their ‘safe spaces’ protected by Big Tech and government censorship.

Only in beta and already the Left is moving to censor it? I think that means Elon is over the target.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 7, 2023 5:55 am

Smoke, drink and be merry, for shortly we will be one with Rome, Nineveh and Tyre.

And before JC wakes up and tells me that America has recovered before and can remake itself, look at the education system. It tells you what the future holds. Is there anything in the state education system that gives any hope? It is aimed at encouraging perverts and the mentally sick to feel accepted. And to shut down science and mathematics as fast as possible. We are in the hands of the ignorant and superstitious, and so are our children.

Jorge
Jorge
November 7, 2023 6:03 am

Some discussion last night about why ‘sporty BMW’.

I thought it was code for ‘not likely to be a follower of Allah’.

Coincidentally, the Christmas market season is approaching. Wonder if we’ll see more drivers losing control, albeit not in sporty BMWs.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 6:04 am

Perhaps, like killing our neighbours, ignorance and superstition is the default position.

On Monday, an Al Madina Dawah Centre spokesman declined to comment, claiming that Mr Ismail was not employed by the organisation, rather was a guest speaker, and that they were not aware of his surname.

The centre stood by Mr Ismail’s comments, refusing to condemn them, directing questions to the police about Mr Ismail.

Well, that’s all okay then. Not an employee, just a random ranter who remained uninterrupted by the pure of heart. Oh, hang on, that’s not right either. The non-employer stood by the comments.

A recap…

– find Jews, kill Jews, kill every Jew you can find, even ones cowering behind trees

I would “stand by” the Al Madina Dawah Centre being razed to the ground on the strength of this alone.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 6:17 am

Jorge, I’m going to be on high alert at the German markets this year. Situational awareness dialled up to eleventy. Won’t make for much fun out of doors – we’ll go easy on the Gluwein, promise.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 6:26 am

The difference between the two religions struck me as I read about the speaking trees, urging the Muslim to kill Jews. I understand the rocks are to do the same.

Base, primitive, evil stuff. Imaginations perverted to wickedness.

Then I thought of Isaiah 55 as a comparison (worth a read if you’re interested). Here’s a joyous excerpt:

You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.

Compare the pair. Which one appeals to the higher qualities of mind and spirit?

Pogria
Pogria
November 7, 2023 6:29 am

Calli,
thanks for the morning pick-me-up. It sets the tone for the day, and the sun is shining. 😀

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 6:37 am

Overcast in Jacintastan by the Yarra, but the weather form guide is tipping strong performances by tipsy floosies by the end of the day. The Daily Mail is no-doubt on standby.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 6:46 am

Well, not fully overcast, but brilliant sunshine is yet to break through. The weather may take a little time to punch through.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 6:48 am

The Christians were bad enough when they had power,

2000 years of Western Civilization and that’s your conclusion?
Of course it’s self evident that atheists in charge is better.
Just ask the Russians, the Chinese, the North Koreans, the Cambodians, the Vietnamese.

Just ask the poor, completely innocent Cathars.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 6:52 am

That’s the difference Calli, Christianity calls us to be Christ like, but men stumble.
Islam’s model is mo, a lecherous vindictive murderer.
He’s a messenger, alright.

The Bungonia Bee
The Bungonia Bee
November 7, 2023 6:55 am

Pennsylvania 2020 election was invalid. Huge discrepancy. Anything up to 200,000 ballots in excess of registered voter numbers. Detailed report, read it carefully. It will happen again in 2024, and not just in PA. The US is basically stuffed now that there are too many bad actors in too many positions of authority. This didn’t happen overnight, but remember there were eight years of binding in the march under Obama. It goes back much further to the Clinton era.

WolfmanOz
WolfmanOz
November 7, 2023 6:59 am

calli
Nov 7, 2023 6:26 AM

Well said calli.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 7, 2023 6:59 am

Bruce…”Just finished watching “The Last Rifleman” with Pierce Brosnan.”

We went and saw The Great Escaper on the weekend – same story but true. Not much in it really, although Michael Caine and Glenda Jackson carry the film along with conviction.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 7, 2023 6:59 am

Idiocracy, literally.

Fears merit-free hiring could lead to cronyism (Paywallian, 7 Nov)

Merit-based hiring has been abolished for academics and public servants in Queensland to stamp out ‘unconscious bias’, sparking concern about ‘jobs for mates’.

Unconscious bias? More like brainless stupidity. But yes all the jokes about public serpents and loony uni professors are going to be fulfilled in Queensland.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 6:59 am

I was about to post in a similar vein, Rosie.

Between the recent strong support for Hamas, its WWII parallels , and the dropped pretences exposed through the Covid era the concept than man can be assured to be kind to those around him without a respect for the concept of a divine oversight (if not.a personal conviction) is a humanistic lie.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:01 am
Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:02 am

Which is what made Abbott and Morrison so disappointing. To me, Abbott had it (and it seemed to get smothered) and Morrison shoul have had it (but it seemed to be packed away after Sunday).

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 7, 2023 7:08 am

Muddy wrote: In early 1941, a Japanese Army major by the name of Hashida arrived in Australia unannounced, on the pretext of researching Australian resources …He was arrested, and two of his notebooks were confiscated & translated, indicating his mission was indeed one of espionage.

Haultain’s Watch off Arnhem Land details the same sort of thing from Japanese Navy men pretending to be fishermen.

Incidentally a great book describing the native settlements and customs. Haultain was an interesting fellow. Although RAAF at the time, and employed as a civilian – the Larrakia, the vessel they used to do high-speed patrolling, was later taken up by the RAN – he joined the Navy at the commencement of the war and became a successful corvette commander.

Watch off Arnhem Land sold well and can be found in many libraries. It’s frank and honest about life in the 1930s up north.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 7, 2023 7:09 am

Just ask the poor, completely innocent Cathars.

We can’t, they are all dead, killed by good Christian men for heresy. Who naturally then found justifications for their killing.

Communism is just another religion. And a thoroughly nasty one, about as nasty as Islam.

Christianity is certainly an improvement, but it hasn’t stopped Christians burning heretics at the stake. And comparing a particularly nasty bit of Islam with a particularly nice bit of your religion hardly does justice to either.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 7:18 am

I disagree John that the place has worse considering the last few years of the old cat. As for down ticks making a fuss about them only incurriges it.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:18 am

I didn’t compare a nice bit to a nasty bit, I pointed out they were different in their fundamentals.
The cathars murdered a Catholic envoy which precipitated a civil war, which they and their Catholic allies lost.
It wasn’t as simple as Cathar v Catholic.
Nor as simplistic as saying look Christians bad because Cathars.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 7, 2023 7:18 am

Luigi’s downhill slide continues:

The backlash from the failure of the voice referendum is having the worst impact in the shortest time of any prime minister on Anthony Albanese, with the PM’s voter satisfaction falling 15 percentage points from 57 per cent to 42 per cent during the referendum campaign.

Voter dissatisfaction with Albanese rose 14 percentage points from 38 to 52 percent leaving him with a net satisfaction rate — the difference between satisfaction and dissatisfaction of minus 10. This is his worst as PM.

This is not the end for Albanese by any means but he has to take care that, like Rudd, it is not the beginning of the end.

After a long political honeymoon in the polls — second only to Rudd — Albanese dipped into minus territory for the first time during the referendum campaign but recovered.

Since the result of the referendum, voter satisfaction with Albanese has plummeted and his record for the six month period is worse than Rudd’s.

During the six-month failed Parliamentary campaign to get Labor’s carbon reduction plan legislated voter satisfaction with Rudd as prime minister fell 13 points.

Albanese is now in a worse position on voter satisfaction than Rudd was at the end of the emissions trading scheme failure and the ALP vote is beginning to fall.

In early 2010 Rudd’s satisfaction with voters suffered further and fell from 50 percent satisfaction in January to just 39 in March and then 36 per cent in June 2010 when he was removed as Labor Leader.

Rudd had come from the highest levels of voter satisfaction in Newspoll history at 71 percent after his election to 36 percent in two and a half years but the biggest fall was in the 12 months from July 2009 to June 2010.

Voter satisfaction is the essentially the least of the measures in Newspoll after primary vote, preferred prime minister and two-party preferred figures but, it can have an impact on MPs and prime minister’s leadership.

Interestingly one-time leadership aspirant Tanya Plibersek delivered a strong speech attacking Peter Dutton’s leadership on the weekend and fervently defended Albanese’s performance as leader.

The Coalition leader’s position in Newspoll has improved since the failed referendum and its clear Plibersek can see the need to diminish Dutton and adorn Albanese.

Other prime ministers — notably John Howard — have suffered big falls in voter satisfaction but have recovered and gone on to serve long terms as leader.

The danger for Albanese is that Rudd’s decline was accelerated by a big policy failure which he had nominated as a key and essential objective and the fall compounded by a lack of attention to matters such illegal boat arrivals which were a paramount concern for the public.

Indeed, Rudd’s decline in voter support was sharpest and most damaging in March 2010 after he had failed to deal swiftly and efficiently with a boat carrying 78 Sri Lankan asylums seekers in Indonesia.

The warning signs are there for Albanese: voter satisfaction has collapsed from where it was; the issue is starting to shift on to the Labor vote and; the public’s dismayed by his diversion from the prime concern of inflation and the cost of living.

Rudd’s losing voter satisfaction in few months was a two-step process and Albanese, like others leaders, can recover lost voter support and restore leadership confidence but he can’t afford a second failure.

Oz

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 7, 2023 7:20 am

the concept than man can be assured to be kind to those around him without a respect for the concept of a divine oversight (if not.a personal conviction) is a humanistic lie.

Buddhism shows you are wrong. “Be good or you’ll go to hell” has problems. Many people are naturally good and kind; those that are not can usually find a rationale for being arseholes no matter what the religion.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:23 am

One of the comments on the Israeli rocket launcher in scout hall thread accuses the Israelis of putting it there.
Where exactly was Hamas launching rockets from then?
There isn’t a single admitted military installation in all of Gaza.
(I’m sure if I scrolled through the account there would be celebration of the 7 October massacre.)

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:23 am

Buddhism is nihilism on stilts.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 7:23 am

And comparing a particularly nasty bit of Islam with a particularly nice bit of your religion hardly does justice to either.

Quite so. However the figurative comparison remains, even if you remove “religion”.

A poetic conceit – trees and rocks that become animate. What do they do, what is their purpose? My point was that they are different.

Only your conscience will inform you of which one is “better” or “higher”.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:25 am

‘Be good or you’ll go to hell’ is an infantile understanding of the Christian message.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 7:26 am

I disagree John that the place hasn’t gotten worse…

Farmer Gez
Farmer Gez
November 7, 2023 7:28 am

Albo can’t afford a second failure

40 on the gauge and no power will do nicely. Game over!

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:30 am

Christianity is certainly an improvement, but it hasn’t stopped Christians burning heretics at the stake.

Yeah, but no one claims that as orthodox Christianity. Closer to orthodox Islam or something the dedicated leftist aspires to. Judaism, I think, traditionally expected the young to memorise the Torah (first five books of the bible) by heart (Cassie may be able to confirm), whereas there seems to be a lot of ignorance in Christian circles before printing got going, and probably still is. That would be a good foundation for a nice society, unfortunately society is heading in the opposite direction.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
November 7, 2023 7:33 am

Rosie I think you are using a singular meaning of nihilism.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 7, 2023 7:35 am

Bolta has a go at the Tiwi islands gas project being stopped by Dreamtime stuff:

Why let any of that stop a massive project that brings gas and money to Australians, including Tiwi Islanders who so depend on government handouts, since 85 per cent don’t work?

We don’t let the religious taboos of other Australians stop such projects. Given 81 per cent of Tiwi Islanders are Christians, courts shouldn’t treat Dreaming superstitions with such awe.

Herald-Sun

132andBush
132andBush
November 7, 2023 7:36 am

40 on the gauge and no power will do nicely. Game over!

Which, sooner or later, will happen.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:38 am

‘Be good or you’ll go to hell’ is an infantile understanding of the Christian message.

True, although recognition that it may be worthwhile to consider the possibility of a ‘long game’ may help those who aren’t quite up to getting in touch with the Creator. 🙂

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:38 am

I don’t know that having a copy of the bible is a pointer for improvement in Christian behaviour.
No-one is claiming becoming Christian makes one sin free.
Plenty of burnings at the stake post printing press.
Problem there seems to be tying religious belief to temporal power so that ‘heresy’ was considered treason.
When you start trying to convert others to your point of view you undermine those in charge, they tend not to like that.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:40 am

Given 81 per cent of Tiwi Islanders are Christians, courts shouldn’t treat Dreaming superstitions with such awe.

Are they listening to ‘The Voice’ rather than the locals?

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 7:42 am

There’s another interesting comparison to be drawn from Isaiah 55, and touches on Rosie’s description of the lecherous, murdering messenger.

King David was also such a man. The difference…when confronted with his vile acts he immediately saw them for what they were, was humiliated and repented. He knew what he had done was evil and an affront to the Almighty. It made him a “man after God’s own heart”.

There is no expectation of perfection in either Judaism or Christianity – only an acknowledgement of the bleeding obvious – we’re all sinners and that sin needs to be dealt with.

One of the great pleasures of my brief brush with Uni was studying parts of the OT as pieces of literature. To let the words stand alone on their merit, and contrast it with other works. You don’t have to be a true believer to appreciate its value.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:42 am

To be honest ranga I don’t know much about Buddhism only what a devout and well educated Christian colleague who was married to a Buddhist told me about the Buddhist endgame.
That was his conclusion about reaching nirvana.
I don’t care.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:44 am

I don’t know that having a copy of the bible is a pointer for improvement in Christian behaviour.

Reading it would also help!

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 7:44 am

We are in the hands of the ignorant and superstitious, and so are our children.

Not going to change untill people do something more constructive then complain on the internet.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:46 am

You know we Catholics don’t go in for that type of thing NKP.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:47 am

I was hoping for some cup tips this morning.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:50 am

Not going to change untill people do something more constructive then complain on the internet

True, but more requires effort, and perhaps bravery.

Sydgal and others manned Voice polling booths. Many of us marched to protest lockdowns. I probably should do more… that’s probably the case for many of us. Kudos to those who do.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 7:51 am

Not going to change untill people do something more constructive then complain on the internet.

You mean we have to get off our bums and practice what we preach?

The very idea!

Vicki
Vicki
November 7, 2023 7:52 am

Interesting that discussion has turned towards the nature of regions faith. I wonder if this reflects community concern. I somehow doubt it.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 7:52 am

And the large audience all managed to get their phones charged.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 7, 2023 7:54 am

I was hoping for some cup tips this morning.

Go for porcelain every time. Plastic’s for losers.

Vicki
Vicki
November 7, 2023 7:58 am

Yes Nelson – some of us man the booths, write letters to newspapers etc. You do what you can & it is a little comforting. But, at the end of the day, we are faced with massive societal changes that others put in motion & now have a life if their own.

It is deeply depressing. Husband & I watching the news this morning. Discussion by boffins on the effect of 500,000 + new immigrants. All too late for discussion. At least there was recognition that the previous Lib govt set it all in motion. A pox on both their houses.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 7:58 am

You know we Catholics don’t go in for that type of thing NKP

Yeah, kinda suspected, but I wasn’t inclined to ignore to 90% of alignment to focus on the 10% of divergence. 🙂

I count myself blessed that I got nudged to where I am. I think I still have that paperback Good News NT (complete with those line illustrations) that was given to me by my Sunday School teacher (the conscientious one before the hippies took over), along with the Brother Andrew story and the Hells Angel one. Mum keeps telling me of how the congregation is dying off and I’m thinking how the distinctive building is effectively becoming a shell.

Muddy
Muddy
November 7, 2023 7:58 am

Ah, morning discussions! Noice.

My top ‘o the page semi-coherence was meant to acknowledge one calendar month since the Rise of the Reptiles (apologies to innocent pet reptiles everywhere; I mean, of course, the reptilian-brained subspecies homos h@m@s), rather than four weeks. That much of the world seems to have conveniently forgotten about 200+ individuals living in darkness & fear (if living at all) still shocks me. Aside from inside Israel, how many Filth Filter outlets have mentioned their names & identity?

I recall not so many years ago the kids lost in the cave in Thailand: There seemed to be minute by minute coverage of the rescue attempts. *Sigh*

Gabor: Thanks for your response. Yes, true, of course. Perhaps western populations have caught rabies & until now it has been asymptomatic.

Bluey
Bluey
November 7, 2023 8:00 am

Muddy
Nov 6, 2023 11:02 PM
While no-one can tell others what to do on someone else’s blog, I do wonder if these repetitive spit-bubble contests inhibit lurkers or visitors from finding a space to enter the conversation. While I enjoy the wit from a few regulars, it would be interesting reading fresh opinions.

Can tell you I see no reason to post much when there’s one poster who seems to view this place as his personal fiefdom where abuse and bullying is ok, and the only one not subject to it is the actual owner. It’s pathetic and not remotely worth the potential hassle of dealing with.
So mostly I end up skipping the slap fights and particular posters, read a couple of the more consistent posters, and move on.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 8:00 am
Crossie
Crossie
November 7, 2023 8:01 am

Of course, we won’t kick the Muslims out. We haven’t the moral courage. We have permitted cowards and temporisers to take power; their objectives are to feather their own nests, and to hell with Western civilisation. So that’s where we are headed.

Seeing as how Albo was treated like a child by the CCP yesterday he might want to do something to impress them like enslaving the local Muslim population as the CCP did to Uyghurs. The local muslims might see it coming and depart on their own.

Razey
Razey
November 7, 2023 8:02 am

The early Christian scholars were likely aware of Buddhism, but it doesn’t appear to have influenced Christianity in any shape or form (despite some conspiracies suggesting Jesus reaching Buddhist Nirvana in the desert). However, in both religions, there is the belief that immortality is possible.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 8:03 am

I’m thinking how the distinctive building is effectively becoming a shell.

And they have a sign welcoming asylum seekers and and another new one saying how inclusive they are and everything!

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:03 am

One of his lesser-known quotes which shows Herr Nietzsche could be funny in a sarky way from time to time

I think there is something in that for all of us.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 8:05 am

My parish is doing quite well; lots of young families from many different backgrounds and a very fine orthodox priest.
Lots of reading from the bible too.
And never a whisper of welcome to country.

Cassie of Sydney
November 7, 2023 8:08 am

Judaism, I think, traditionally expected the young to memorise the Torah (first five books of the bible) by heart “

The emphasis in Judaism is on interpretation rather than recitation. Reciting texts without context is theologically meaningless. Sure, there are many scholars who might be able to recite whole Torah passages by heart but it is more important to have studied those texts and to interpret why things happened, such as why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his beloved son, or why Sarah banished Hagar, or why Ishmael and Isaac bitterly fought each other but made up at Abraham’s grave (which is located in Hebron, at the Tomb of the Patriarchs and Matriarchs). At Yeshivas, boys study Torah, the Talmud and halacha (which is Jewish law). Critical thinking is prized in Judaism. You must learn to think outside the box, even when studying the holy texts, to challenge, to dispute, to debate, to argue, even with God. In Judaism, you are allowed to argue with God.

The problem in Sunni Islam (though perhaps not in Shiism) is that Koranic schools are about recitation, boys simply learn the Koran by heart and there is little analysis, little interpretation and so on. I doubt very much if in Islam you’re encouraged to argue with Allah. I remember watching a Netflix documentary about a Madrassah in Pakistan where the boys were simply instructed to learn the Koran off by heart yet not learning what of the words or passages meant. It is these young men who become the foot soldiers of terrorism. They are indoctrinated theological human grenades. However, the humanities departments of our universities have adopted the same approach as Pakistani madrassas, and as we can see from the Jew hating protests across the West, many of our university educated young are no different to those kids in a Pakistani madrassah. They are all ticking time bombs.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 8:08 am

Faithfulness means growth, either numerical or internal. Always has done.

If your church is an empty shell, try the remedy outlined in rosie’s comment. Step back and watch it bloom.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:09 am

I give up until it goes.

Until then, Yog Sothoth is the key.

Imagine getting married and some idiot dies welcome to country.

Imagine doing a civil ceremony and having the same.

Razey
Razey
November 7, 2023 8:10 am

The Chinese instinctively know that letting Muslims off the leash then they will become a problem. The simplest solution for them is to slice off that section of land and let them sort their own shit out, but they won’t do that. I think the Asian world will be smart enough not to go down the Woke West route and import millions of them.

As we are finding out, low population muslims will happily play ‘house muslim’. But when their numbers are a certain %, then it’s day of the dog!

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:10 am

DOES

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 8:11 am

In Judaism, you are allowed to argue with God.

Jacob took the argument one step further. I love that story.

One of my favourite texts is the tale of Job. Now that’s an argument. No guesses who has the final word.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 8:12 am

And they have a sign welcoming asylum seekers and and another new one saying how inclusive they are and everything!

I hadn’t noticed that new addition. Good to hear your parish is thriving.

Vicki
Vicki
November 7, 2023 8:13 am

Re: “unconscious bias” referred to in earlier post-

I once had a furious exchange with my son-in-law about so called unconscious bias. He is a “corporate” & has been to all the seminars on such topics. I said I found the accusation ( which he levelled) deeply intellectually insulting. I told him that, on the contrary, I recognise my “bias” on most controversial topics & generally it is the product of research! That is, the final “position” is not necessarily based on “sentiment” and/or prejudice. Quite the contrary.

But “research” appears to be a quaint concept to the current generation of corporates.

Cassie of Sydney
November 7, 2023 8:13 am

Sydgal and others manned Voice polling booths. Many of us marched to protest lockdowns. I probably should do more… that’s probably the case for many of us. Kudos to those who do.”

Indeed. And there are quite a few of us who do more than just talk the talk, many of us walk the talk.

Cassie of Sydney
November 7, 2023 8:14 am

Jacob took the argument one step further. I love that story.

Me too.

MatrixTransform
November 7, 2023 8:14 am

Fears merit-free hiring could lead to cronyism

merit-free hiring IS cronyism

Razey
Razey
November 7, 2023 8:14 am

I had the thought the other day that main reason the LWNJ’s are going nuts right now is that they can not stand the fact the Jews can now legitimately claim victim status. After all, their entire world view is based on victim status, and Jews aren’t allowed to be victims as it upends their entire religion.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 8:15 am

To be clear, it’s the standard bible reading of every mass, first and second reading, psalms in between, then the gospel then a homily on that gospel reading.
Also inclusive but please leave your sin at the door.

Crossie
Crossie
November 7, 2023 8:15 am

Nelson_Kidd-Players
Nov 7, 2023 7:40 AM
Given 81 per cent of Tiwi Islanders are Christians, courts shouldn’t treat Dreaming superstitions with such awe.

Are they listening to ‘The Voice’ rather than the locals?

I suspect many, if not most, of our judiciary have pagan sympathies. The current trend is very anti Judeo-Christian and pro-paganist and they are just as susceptible to fashions as the rest of the population. The members of judiciary who are not specifically Christian or Jewish are particularly susceptible. Atheism doesn’t seem to satisfy after all.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 7, 2023 8:15 am

So why “sporty beamer”?

I think I first saw sporty beamer in the msm and someone followed on.

I think I mentioned a year ago that I, as an older person, had just purchased a new BMW, which I nominated as a ‘sporty beamer’. I think I may have originated the term here. The discussion that opened re the Dalesford tragedy suggested that an older person in a sporty beamer may have been at fault. No aspersions were being cast of course. lol.

In keeping with my blog persona here I am soon off to do something completely frivolous. I am busy turning my sunhat into a masterpiece of millinary for a major Ladies Who Lunch meet up for the Melbourne Cup. A blue silk scarf, white satin roses, black netting and some feathers, et voila!. Home made millinary is the order of this day. You are not allowed to cheat and buy something.

Hairy and I have been rewatching Rogue Heroes on TV. Fictionalised fact of course, but great stuff nevertheless. Bon Scott seeing us through it very nicely.

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 8:17 am

Not going to change untill people do something more constructive then complain on the internet

Does Jan 6 in the US ring a bell?
The land of the free?

Make no mistake oppression, erosion of freedoms will happen nearly, but not all places.

Bravery? It was a peaceful ‘protest’ if you can even call it that.
People in jail, some who didn’t attend, a woman killed and the killer cop boasted about it.

Don’t know what can be done, short of a revolution, but I’m sure of one thing, it’s not going to come from Australia nor from the US despite all the guns.

If you are not prepared to use them why bother buying it in the first place?
Hunting and self defense excluded, but for that you don’t need dozens.

Only place that has form to revolt and eventually fight back is Europe.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 8:20 am

It is deeply depressing. Husband & I watching the news this morning. Discussion by boffins on the effect of 500,000 + new immigrants. All too late for discussion. At least there was recognition that the previous Lib govt set it all in motion. A pox on both their houses.

It can be Vicki when your immersed in tragedy 24/7. The wife and I like to go out to the local park and watch families just enjoying the time. They are are worth fighting for.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 8:20 am

If your church is an empty shell, try the remedy outlined in rosie’s comment.

I expect your comment is intended as a generaisation, Calli, but in response…

That’s Mum’s church (and grandparents’) which features a big stained-glass depiction of it’s black circular logo at the entrance which was celebrated at irts unveiling in more prosperous times. I’ve decamped with my family to a church in a warehouse. 🙂

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 8:21 am

Canada App Bans and Online News Act

A Chinese-owned app called WeChat, made for instant messaging, social media, and mobile payments, has been banned from Canada effective immediately as of Monday, October 30, 2023. The application was said to be removed from all government-issued devices and has been blocked for future downloads by anyone. While they did do a sweep through the app to see if there had been any breaches, nothing came up. Yet, they decided to ban the app from Canada. Along with this, the Kaspersky app has also been banned effective immediately. This app is a Russian-owned cyber-security and anti-virus app. Both apps are said to be a threat.

The government of Canada has previously made a News Law, that “aims to ensure that dominant platforms compensate news businesses when their content is made available on their services. The Act creates a bargaining framework to ensure that platforms compensate news businesses fairly. It encourages platforms to reach voluntary commercial agreements with a range of news businesses.” This law has banned Meta- which is a company behind Facebook and Instagram, has already blocked news articles on social media in Canada. Social media is a free form of uncensored news. Unlike regular news which can be monitored and altered by the government. Canadians being censored to what they are viewing gives them a false reality of what is truly going on in the world. A spokesperson for Meta said “The Online News Act is based on the incorrect premise that social media companies benefit unfairly from news content shared on our platforms, but the reverse is true, News outlets voluntarily share content on social media to expand their audiences and help their bottom line. Unfortunately, the only way we can reasonably comply with this legislation is to end news availability for people in Canada in the coming weeks.” This is all leading to a much bigger issue which would be private media ownership.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/canada/canada-app-bans-and-online-news-act/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=RSS

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:21 am

I suppose Nicodemus and Paul are the NT versions of Jacob.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 8:26 am

Cassie of Sydney
Nov 7, 2023 8:08 AM

Thanks for your input, Cassie.

The understanding (including listening, debating, contemplating) is a great adjunct to the memorisation but the ability to recall a passage that’s been seared into your brain (along with associated understanding) is great when you have a situation before you but not the scriptures.

I’m sure Calli didn’t have to dig for her references above so much as recall them as applying to the conversation.

Crossie
Crossie
November 7, 2023 8:27 am

Don’t know what can be done, short of a revolution, but I’m sure of one thing, it’s not going to come from Australia nor from the US despite all the guns.
If you are not prepared to use them why bother buying it in the first place?
Hunting and self defense excluded, but for that you don’t need dozens.
Only place that has form to revolt and eventually fight back is Europe.

I believe that will be the case as the pressure will be much greater there. I wonder what happened to all those thousands of soccer hooligans.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 7, 2023 8:27 am

It was enjoyable to read last nite’s thread on serious matters, like historical interpretations of the theologies of protestantism vs the Roman Catholic Magisterium (that beautiful word).

Calli’s last word on Henry VIII was a classic: a pictorial vision of his jocular wives had they never had the misfortune to meet him.

This blog is unique in its contributors, content and energies. Long may it live.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:30 am

MT BERGHAUS TENEMENT GRANTED

Crossie
Crossie
November 7, 2023 8:30 am

That’s Mum’s church (and grandparents’) which features a big stained-glass depiction of it’s black circular logo at the entrance which was celebrated at irts unveiling in more prosperous times. I’ve decamped with my family to a church in a warehouse. ?

The stained-glass church is still your heritage so why not reclaim it?

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:31 am

If Trump wanted to ban TikTok then why can’t skippy ban WeChat?

Razey
Razey
November 7, 2023 8:31 am

It is deeply depressing. Husband & I watching the news this morning. Discussion by boffins on the effect of 500,000 + new immigrants. All too late for discussion. At least there was recognition that the previous Lib govt set it all in motion. A pox on both their houses.

Been taking the train in recently. I’d say the number of working age whites would be < 20%. Once the boomers die off, the LWNJ's will need a new whipping boy as 'whites' will able to claim minority victim status. Who are the Abo's going to blame then.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:33 am

The old Australian DG of Security taking a contract to shill for Huaiwei (pretty sure he would not have let his employees use them at work, or at all) and have them sponsor the Canbra Faders was the moment you should have realised the ruling class think life is a game and your life is worthless.

Just an absolutely unprincipled piss take.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 7, 2023 8:34 am

It can be Vicki when your immersed in tragedy 24/7. The wife and I like to go out to the local park and watch families just enjoying the time. They are are worth fighting for.

Well said, Bespoke. Families are foundational; and fortunately they are so very hard to destroy. So many attempts have been made, yet in any park anywhere, there they are. Mum, dad and kids and the elderly out to do what families have always done, being together.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
November 7, 2023 8:35 am

In the end, the church is the people, not the building. Not sure the Uniting Church would want to sell. Our church did once hear of a half opportunity to buy the buildings of a different declining church (possibly also Uniting; cannot recall exactly) but they decided not to sell.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:36 am

Not sure if the DM invented the “spawdy bimmer” meme but they sure do write a lot of sharticles about them.

Cassie of Sydney
November 7, 2023 8:36 am

As always, Andrew Lawrence says it best, he uploaded this a few hours ago….

Fit in, or f**k off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtqLk3Xdn_8

Warning, Lawrence does not mince his words.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 7, 2023 8:37 am

rosie

Nov 7, 2023 7:47 AM

I was hoping for some cup tips this morning.

Race 4.
Tartarian Adios.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 8:39 am

If you are not prepared to use them why bother buying it in the first place?

Not all 2A supporters are the red neck sovrin citizens types portrayed in the media. They will step up and defend there families when the time comes. And not to satisfy the frustrations of someone thousands of kilometres away.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 7, 2023 8:40 am

The stained-glass church is still your heritage so why not reclaim it?

Yes, the infrastructure of churches does matter. Fill those old churches and change them if you don’t like what is being said there. It pains me in Britain to see some of that glorious old heritage being turned into mosques because no Briton can be bothered to object. That is far worse to me than selling old churches for housing, although even that is not desirable. It shows to me a lack of faith that there would be a turnaround in the future and the churches full again. Keep them ready would be my policy, showing faith.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 7, 2023 8:46 am

Been taking the train in recently. I’d say the number of working age whites would be < 20%. Once the boomers die off, the LWNJ's will need a new whipping boy as 'whites' will able to claim minority victim status. Who are the Abo's going to blame then.

Which part of Japan is this?

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 8:49 am

I suppose Nicodemus and Paul are the NT versions of Jacob.

Thomas also. Questions always welcome, and don’t be a pushover.

Razey
Razey
November 7, 2023 8:49 am

Douglas Murray on the rampage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzdnPjPhW0

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 8:50 am

Pelosi Subpoenaed in Undisclosed Criminal Case

https://youtu.be/87uvWiTkhpM?t=3

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 8:50 am

Some rather tanky, bread tube losers have taken up residence in Haute Crapper and begun a rhinoceros level expelling of anti Israeli crap as well as blaming “late stage capitalism”.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 7, 2023 8:52 am

I once had a furious exchange with my son-in-law about so called unconscious bias. He is a “corporate” & has been to all the seminars on such topics.

Ours too, Vicki. I say my piece, as calmly as I can, and my daughter disrespects me for it. Hairy simply says nothing until he is alone with the man, and then he will quietly advise some reading matter. They know we differ, and to be fair, his very senior job depends on his compliance in some of it. We suspect he has his own feelings against it which he will not express, perhaps even to himself. He is an army reservist still.

This stuff has split so many families. I guess politics and religion always has, hence the old trope that such things are verboten at table.

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 8:52 am

Uniting Church in Melb had a fire sale a few years ago to cover the debt from a failed school a few years ago.
Only sold about half of the lots and withdrew the rest after they covered the debt.

Katzenjammer
Katzenjammer
November 7, 2023 8:53 am
Figures
Figures
November 7, 2023 8:54 am

Rudd’s losing voter satisfaction in few months was a two-step process and Albanese, like others leaders, can recover lost voter support and restore leadership confidence but he can’t afford a second failure.

These journalists always apply the same analysis to Liberals as they do Labor, completely ignoring the fact that two different psychologies are pushing and pulling people towards either party.

People want to vote for Labor because it’s seen as the nice and virtuous thing to do. Voting for them is about fitting in. People don’t want to vote for Liberals but they do when voting for Labor is an existential threat. If Labor leaders are getting regularly humiliated, then voting for losers in order to fit in doesn’t make any sense. And, of course, all this is happening when we have an existential crisis with living costs and immigration.

The only way CoL can get better is if the government reverses all their economic policies – but that would increase their humiliation.

Indolent
Indolent
November 7, 2023 8:56 am
johanna
johanna
November 7, 2023 8:57 am

Zatara
Nov 7, 2023 1:17 AM

Antifa LGBTQ morons try to tag on to the pally rally but get their asses handed to them, by the pallies.

Hilarious watching them scuttle away tail between legs.

I encourage all Cats and Kittehs with a sense of humour to watch this clip, linked by Zatara above, and courtesy of the admirable Andy Ngo.

Intersectionality ain’t what it used to be. 🙂

P
P
November 7, 2023 8:59 am

For me this old hymn from my childhood says it well

I Know Whom I Have Believed

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 9:00 am

Sydgal and others manned Voice polling booths. Many of us marched to protest lockdowns. I probably should do more… that’s probably the case for many of us. Kudos to those who do.”

All nessasary and noble yet there are hundreds of brick and morter law reform groups that could use people with the time,knowledge, and research skills.

dopey
dopey
November 7, 2023 9:01 am

SMH Form Guide.
15. Lastotchka…b m 5y Myboycharlie (IR ) – Muthla (FR )
No such thing in Australia as a 4 year old filly. North hem horses racing in Aus are aged by Aus breeding standard. Foaled in April 2019, hence became a 5 year old on August 2023.
Choisir was an Australian 3 year old who went to race in England. Weighted over there as a 4 year old.

wivenhoe
wivenhoe
November 7, 2023 9:06 am

I was hoping for some cup tips this morning.

(6) Soulcombe

Indolent
Indolent
November 7, 2023 9:07 am

Trump testifying.

NY AG lawyer: We’ve seen multiple loan agreements, and your signature. You paid all these off?

Trump: Yes. With cash… I think this case is a disgrace. People are leaving New York due to this kind of thing. The only complainant is you.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 9:10 am

Hunting and self defense excluded, but for that you don’t need dozens.

I’m not interested in many hobbies, Gabor. That doesn’t mean I want or have the right to restrict them.

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 9:14 am

Don’t go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.

– Mark Twain

johanna
johanna
November 7, 2023 9:15 am

Driverless cars are not just in Beta mode, they are in Zeta mode:

The self-driving car industry has hit a major speed bump as GM-owned Cruise enters damage control mode after ceasing robotaxi operations around the country. Cruise CEO Kyle Vogt reportedly told employees, “Trust is one of those things that takes a long time to build and just seconds to lose. We need to get to the bottom of this and start rebuilding that trust.”

The New York Times reports that the self driving car company Cruise suspended all of its driverless operations nationwide last week following an incident on October 2 in San Francisco. A Cruise autonomous vehicle struck and dragged a pedestrian, causing severe injuries that led to her death.

and

The shutdown came after California’s Department of Motor Vehicles accused Cruise of omitting footage showing the car dragging the woman from video it shared with regulators. The DMV ordered Cruise to cease driverless services in the state.

The problems for the company did not stop there. Cruise suspended all of its driverless operations across the country two days after the accident. This move resulted in taking around 400 driverless cars off the road. The company’s board has hired Quinn Emanuel, a law firm, to investigate Cruise’s response to the incident, which includes the company’s interactions with regulators, law enforcement, and media.

I don’t believe that driverless cars can ever succeed, unless all the other vehicles are driverless. It’s technological hubris on stilts.

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 9:16 am

I was hoping for some cup tips this morning.

Try Tea or Red Rum.

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 9:19 am

I don’t believe that driverless cars can ever succeed, unless all the other vehicles are driverless. It’s technological hubris on stilts.

There are loads of driverless cars in the Car Park and they are not going anywhere.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 9:19 am

Hey, dragnet. Your pal, the limey piece of shit has filled blog with Marty gas again. What a limey crook. Nice friends you have.

I’ll post the disclaimer in a few mins.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
November 7, 2023 9:20 am

Hunting and self defense excluded, but for that you don’t need dozens.

I don’t need dozens, I want dozens. Discussion over.

Cassie of Sydney
November 7, 2023 9:25 am

The anniversary of Kristellnacht is approaching, 9 November 1938.

Just to remind people, Kristellnacht happened over two days where Jewish owned stores, buildings, homes, hospitals, schools, and synagogues were smashed and vandalised, and Jewish men, women and children were physically and verbally attacked on the streets with thousands of Jewish men taken to concentration camps.

Now in 2023, I can’t help thinking of that aphorism…’plus ça change, plus c’est la meme chose’.

It’s a very cold wind I feel.

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 9:30 am

I don’t need dozens, I want dozens. Discussion over.

Fair enuff, wasn’t going to discuss it anyway, each to his own, but one question, what are you going to do with them, and when, and where?

Which one are you going to pick in advance of the situation developing?
How many can you carry and pick the right one and the right ammo in the heat of the battle.
There is a reason the army has standardised weapons,
They are not like a tie you pick for an event.

Talk is cheap.

johanna
johanna
November 7, 2023 9:31 am

Oh, and thanks to whoever alerted me to The Sweeney being on Daily Motion. Been looking on youtube for years.

I’m now watching the whole series, from series one episode one onwards.

I love to see a man in a three quarter coat. Stylish and sexy.

John Thaw and Dennis Waterman were both very charismatic actors, and went on to have enviable careers afterwards.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 9:32 am

Johnny Rotten
Nov 7, 2023 8:21 AM

Johnny Rotten (aka Wodney Woddenhead, aka Bovver Boy) posted a piece by Marty Armstrong, a notorious fraud who spent 11 years in Leavenworth on fraud charges.

Here’s a blog describing some of his current activities and scams

https://armstrongecmscam.blogspot.com/p/where-and-how-to-complain.html

Here’s the SEC release relating Armstrong’s criminal charges.

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr-16279

It should be noted that the blog describes how Marty has offered inducements to other people in his current crooked scheme to sell his products to the wider general public.

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 9:35 am

What was the horse Zafiro mentioned yesterday?
3 or 4 year old depending as I recall?

rosie
rosie
November 7, 2023 9:40 am

Off and racing.

Jorge
Jorge
November 7, 2023 9:41 am

I’ve decamped with my family to a church in a warehouse. ?

In other places (Tassie) there is a surge in traditional Latin mass communities.

This is despite efforts to discourage them.

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 9:43 am

Which one are you going to pick in advance of the situation developing?

One

How many clocks or TV’s or cars do you have?
Don’t bother since it is none of my business.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 7, 2023 9:44 am

This ones for agricultural Cats.

Countryman News
Regional WA
WA News
Farmers rally to harvest much-loved father Darryl ‘Jack’ Burton’s crop at Eradu after his sudden death
Cally Dupe
Countryman
Mon, 6 November 2023 8:00PM
Cally Dupe

The true meaning of country spirit was on show in the small locality of Eradu at the weekend, when dozens of locals rallied together to harvest the crop of a much-loved farmer who died last month.

A huge line-up of 16 headers, 12 chaser bins, 16 trucks and plenty of volunteers assembled to finish harvest across 1200ha on November 5, in honour of Darryl “Jack” Colin Burton.

The much-loved 51-year-old died suddenly on a camping trip with his wife and two young sons on October 1.

His death has left a huge hole in the hearts of those in the small farming community 40km north-east of Geraldton.

Among those present on the day were Mr Burton’s wife Liz, and young sons Henry, 13, and Mark, 10.

Mr Burton’s brother-in-law Andrew Robinson said it was an amazing show of community spirit and showed how well-loved “Jack” was by those that call the locality of North Eradu home.

“We had so many people offering to help… so after a few days we decided to do a busy bee and do it all in one day,” he said.

“It was circulated around the Yuna community group and we had offers… we organised it in about three weekends.”

Work started at 8am in the morning and finished at 2pm, with a barbecue held at the end.

Volunteers were well-fed thanks to the Yuna CWA of WA, with news of the day spreading far and wide and businesses from as far away as Geraldton offering to chip in any way possible.

“We had donations of food and drink, we even had companies offer us diesel for the tractors,” Mr Robinson said.

“I just can’t believe how willing businesses and people were to help.”

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 9:46 am

Haute Crapper really ought to be ashamed as to what gets posted there.

Yes, I actually said that.

OldOzzie
OldOzzie
November 7, 2023 9:49 am

Chanticleer

The big lesson from Macquarie’s AI Melbourne Cup tips

The firm’s quants turned to artificial intelligence to improve their race strike rate. There’s one question they asked PunterGPT that investors can learn from.

There’s a scene in the immortal punting movie Let It Ride when the lead character, Jay Trotter – played by Richard Dreyfuss – decides to select the horse he will bet on by taking a survey of the characters of the racetrack.

But rather than tallying up the most frequent selections, Trotter gets out the big red pen, and puts a line through the name of every horse he’s tipped.

“You got a brother?” he asks one unlucky punter as he whittles the field down. “Call him up, ask him who he likes. I figure it’s in the blood!”

We haven’t quite reached that point with the tips provided each year by Macquarie Research’s quantitative team, led by John Conomos, but we would note that their model is looking a little sickly.

Since 2018, the team has failed to nail the winner and, by this correspondent’s count, has named the victor in their top picks only twice: Very Elleegant in 2020, and Vow and Declare in 2018.

The tips, of course, are a bit of fun. But nevertheless, Conomos and his team have done some soul-searching in the past 12 months.

Why they used AI
“Surrounded by echoes of last year’s disappointment, the Macquarie team sat in sombre silence contemplating our future as once-a-year horse race tipsters,” they wrote on Monday night. “But fate has a funny way of intervening. It was late November 2022, that a peculiar character entered our world. With an air of confidence that bordered on audacity, introducing themselves as ‘PunterGPT’, a generative AI specialist powered by language models at Evolved Reasoning, who has an uncanny knack for turning fortunes around.”

That’s certainly been the case for tech stocks, but whether it works with horse racing remains to be seen. PunterGPT has nominated second and third favourites Gold Trip and Without A Fight as its top two picks, but three of its top selections are out-and-out longshots: Daqiansweet Junior is $81, Vow And Declare is $26 and More Felons is $27. Fifth pick Absurde has been heavily backed and is now priced at $9.50.

Conomos and his team also used their traditional method of rating the field according to five factors:

value, momentum, sentiment, quality and innovative date, which this year was applying Australian formlines to overseas runners.

Their top six were Without A Fight, followed by Vauban, Future History, Gold Trip, Absurde and Military Mission.

Perhaps the horses that feature in both lists – Without A Fight, Gold Trip and Absurde – are the best ways to go.

Conomos makes the point that the large language models (LLMs) used to train AI can be “valuable tools for fund managers in the process of idea generation and testing investment theses or ideas.

This can help fund managers to generate new investment ideas, validate existing ones, and assess the potential risks and opportunities associated with them.”

The smart question Macquarie asked

To this end, there was one particularly interesting question the Macquarie quants asked of PunterGPT: What are the experts not focused on that could also be relevant?

This is a question not enough investors, economists and, ahem, columnists, ask, because we generally approach problems with preconceived ideas borne of experience and emotion. But it should be able to help us dodge these problems, if used correctly.

The AI noted that track conditions are not really factored into punter’s selections, their age is rarely analysed, and the way international horses acclimatise is only rarely considered.

But at the top of PunterGPT’s “what you’re missing” list was pedigree. “There is little discussion of pedigree and breeding for stamina, an indicator of distance ability,” PunterGPT noted.

Which is interesting because, as the good people at Proven Thoroughbreds noted on Monday night, four of the past five Melbourne Cup winners had both super sires Sadlers Wells and Danehill in the first four generations of their bloodlines.

The top six horses in betting – Vauban, Without A Fight, Gold Trip, Absurde, Soulcombe and Lastotchka – all fit this bill.

If you’re confused by all these tips, we can’t blame you.

In fact, it might be time to ask PunterGPT an important question: You got a brother?

miltonf
miltonf
November 7, 2023 9:51 am

Good to hear you’re enjoying The Sweeney Johanna. Absolutely riveting eh. I like Pommy cars too- Triumphs, Jags, Rovers, Austins, Morrises. Great stuff.

Bourne1879
Bourne1879
November 7, 2023 9:52 am

Oh look JC is going to repeat late last night’s boring stuff again today.

If you don’t like the Armstrong stuff scroll by FFS.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 9:57 am

Surely the actual pace of each horse under different track conditions (annd length) and ability of jockeys to overcome these or not stuff up a ride matter more than crap like “sentiment”?

P
P
November 7, 2023 9:58 am

What was the horse Zafiro mentioned yesterday?

Lastotchka

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 7, 2023 10:00 am

Don’t know if it has been mentioned yet, but the Nashville Shooter’s manifesto was apparently leaked to Louder with Crowder.

It is bursting with anti-White hate.

johanna
johanna
November 7, 2023 10:00 am

If you have an elderly rellie with no money and multiple medical issues, get them into hospital:

Queensland Health is spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year looking after public hospital patients that are not sick enough to be there, Health Minister Shannon Fentiman says.
Key points:

The number of long-stay hospital patients has jumped 39 per cent since June
Long-stay patients are those well enough to be discharged from hospital
Queensland’s health minister said they are costing $1.7 million a day

Outlining the latest quarterly hospital data, Ms Fentiman said almost 900 people were taking up Queensland public hospital beds while they waited for access to aged care or disability accommodation and support.

That’s more beds than in the entire Sunshine Coast University Hospital, which has 732 “beds and bed alternatives”.

The number of so-called long-stay patients has risen from 630 to 877 since the beginning of June – a jump of 39 per cent.

Long-stay hospital patients are medically fit for discharge but remain in hospital due to a lack of available care, such as a nursing home or support through the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS), which are predominantly federal government responsibilities.

and

The minister said the percentages of long-stay patients were also high in the Gold Coast and Mackay Hospital and Health Services.

Ms Fentiman said the problem was exacerbated by aged care providers that refused to take people with complex conditions.

“When I visited the Maryborough Hospital, there was an entire ward of people, long-stay patients, who have complex dementia, that our aged care providers were not accepting,” she said.

Why would they? It takes big bucks to look after people with severe dementia, and they are not on offer.

More than 30 years ago I had an operation in the old Canberra Hospital, and shared a room with an old girl in exactly that situation. She snored like a freight train, BTW.

Anyway, hospitals have become parking lots for elderly people who have nowhere to go, and it’s getting worse and worse. As the population increases and ages …

As Peter Costello pointed out, and a friend who is a lifelong bureaucrat confirmed recently, the aged care system in Australia is impenetrable, sclerotic, wasteful, sluggish, and navigating it would make Captain Cook scratch his head, not just because of lice.

If only the gubbmint of da wukkas cared …

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 10:03 am

Anyone know the biggest backed horses that failed to finish in the top four or so in the Cup?

Everyone reckons they picked Lonrho, Winx or Kingston Town after the fact.

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:04 am

If only the gubbmint of da wukkas cared …

‘My government will not leave the poor and vulnerable behind.’

— Every Labor PM since PK, including Albanese.

Aaron
Aaron
November 7, 2023 10:05 am

Hamas leaders. We will die for, err YOU will die etc

Don’t even live in Palestine. Talk about useful idiots.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:07 am

DrBeauGan
Nov 7, 2023 5:55 AM

Smoke, drink and be merry, for shortly we will be one with Rome, Nineveh and Tyre.

And before JC wakes up and tells me that America has recovered before and can remake itself, look at the education system. It tells you what the future holds. Is there anything in the state education system that gives any hope? It is aimed at encouraging perverts and the mentally sick to feel accepted. And to shut down science and mathematics as fast as possible. We are in the hands of the ignorant and superstitious, and so are our children.

Doc,

Not in any order

1. Last year, things looked grim for free speech, and then Musk took over Twitter and released all the grubby details about how the state was attempting to pervert free speech. That’s been a huge win. There’s also been a court case, which has told the government to get lost and not to try that again.

2. Some of the most noted universities, including the Academies and the students, have been found to be grossly anti-sem. Because of the advocacy of numerous influential people, these universities are now going through a Bud Light moment in their lives. Less money goes to their endowments, and there are countless criticisms of their behavior.

Watch this Oxford speech and follow-up questions with Ben Shapiro. The clapping, etc is more towards Shapiro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NFirxhXWE

3. The US economy, despite the kitchen sink being thrown at it, is actually doing fine. In fact, the US is currently producing a record amount of oil&gas.

4. There are certainly issues with the primitives both the US and Europe have allowed in, but even so, they are not going to take over Europe. The threat is not existential.

5. I’ve told others to wait to see how the 24 election turns out before we become dark and gloomy.

6. Israel is winning and will win this war. I’m optimistic that the current Abraham Accords will make it through and that the Palestinians will be left on their own.

7. Europe is currently going through motions to end the Ukraine war, and perhaps there will be some relief on that side.

8. US schools are much more local than here, and schooling is very much dependent on where you live. Public schools in the major cities may be lost. certainly in the blue states, but I’d be hesitant to say all American schools are going that way. Look what DeSantis has been doing in Florida and Youngkin in Virginia.

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:07 am

‘Voice leaders demand truth and treaty.’

— Financial Review

Linda Burney declined to comment.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 7, 2023 10:07 am

Words fail me, they honestly vooking do!

German kindergarten to change name from Anne Frank to World Explorer as Holocaust victim ‘too political’
Anne Frank became a global symbol of courage in the face of the monstrous evil of the Holocaust.

By jacquelin magnay
Europe Correspondent
@jacquelinmagnay
9:45AM November 7, 2023
3 Comments

A German kindergarten is to abandon the name of one of the world’s most famous Holocaust victims, Anne Frank, in preference to a “more inclusive” and “less political” alternative.

As Germany undergoes a widespread debate about anti-Semitism amid backlash surrounding the Israel-Hamas war, the kindergarten director in the East German village of Tangerhütte in Saxony-Anhalt says having Anne Frank in the name of the school is too “difficult” to explain to children and she claims that Frank’s story is unknown to the area’s immigrant families.

Linda Schichor, the kindergarten’s director, told local newspaper Volksstimme that the school is to be renamed ‘Weltentdecker’ (world explorer) ending its half century association and the school’s founding name of Anne Frank.
Read Next

“We wanted a name without a political background,” Ms Schichor said.

Frank, a 15-year-old Jewish-German girl who kept diaries during the occupation of the Nazis in Amsterdam, died in the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in 1945. Her diaries were published after the war and posthumously Frank became a global symbol of courage in the face of monstrous evil.

A worried parent, who had once been a pupil at the kindergarten, contacted the local newspaper concerned that Anne Frank’s name was to be erased, which alerted authorities.

The issue has sparked debate across the country, however the local mayor Andreas Brohm has backed the name change claiming it was a “conceptual overhaul” that would allow the kindergarten to place more emphasis on the “self determination and diversity” of the children in its care.

Two years ago plans to change the name of a daycare centre in Elxleben, Thuringia from Anne Frank to Moose Dwarves was quickly scuttled after local outrage.

Christoph Heubner, the deputy head of the International Auschwitz Committee, has called for the Tangerhütte kindergarten name change to be just as quickly dropped.

“If one is prepared to forget one’s own history so easily, especially in these times of renewed anti-Semitism and right-wing extremism, one can only feel fear and anxiety about the culture of remembrance in our country,” he said.

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 10:08 am

P
Nov 7, 2023 9:58 AM

Thanks. going to back it for place and in the multies. doubt she has a chance of a snowflake to win.

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 10:09 am

The NDIS is not to be accessed for people 65 and older.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:10 am

Bourne1879
Nov 7, 2023 9:52 AM

Oh look JC is going to repeat late last night’s boring stuff again today.

If you don’t like the Armstrong stuff scroll by FFS.

No, fck you Rooster. If you don’t like it then move along without a comment, because every single time that limey wog posts a marty gas explosion, that disclaimer is going up. Stick to reporting on local QLD politics which bores everyone to death.

Diogenes
Diogenes
November 7, 2023 10:12 am

For a bit of context on driverless car …

A woman in San Francisco is in critical condition after being first struck by a hit-and-run driver, and then falling in front of a driverless Cruise car, which ran her over and trapped her under its wheels.

The accident occurred on Monday in the US city’s downtown, near the intersection of Market and Fifth Streets, at 2135 PT. Both vehicles started moving after traffic lights turned green, though the pedestrian was still in the crosswalk, Cruise told the San Francisco Chronicle.

The human driver hit her first, and knocked her into the neighboring lane directly in front of a Cruise autonomous vehicle (AV) that was driving around by itself with no-one on board. The self-driving car then ran her over and came to a stop on top of her body, turning on its hazard lights. Her leg was pinned down by the back tire.

https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/04/driverless_cruise_car_pedestrian/

calli
calli
November 7, 2023 10:14 am

“We wanted a name without a political background,” Ms Schichor said.

Frank had no “political” background. She, like many others, was a victim of politics (amongst other things).

Shame on them for finding their history too “difficult” to repeat to children. And who gives a sh*t what the immigrants think. If I’m reading correctly between the lines, they’d do it to her too.

bons
bons
November 7, 2023 10:15 am

TE’s article above on the fall from grace of Albanese is a typical example of commentators being so bound by ideology that they cannot even discuss contemporary reality.

Prior to the Voice, these people would not admit even a possibility that the people would reject the outrage.

Now, the Voice is the convenient fig leaf that allows commentators to ignore the real issues that are tearing down this clownshow.

They will never admit that the behaviour Australian Moslems horrifies and frightens Aussies. Nor will they admit that Albanese’s and especially Wong’s support for Hamas disgusts and embarrasses the vast majority of Australian’s.

Top of the list that must not be discussed is the C of L which will continue to be ignored until it reaches out and clubs Labor into oblivion. The commentators will then nod wisely before getting on with the job of attacking the incoming Government.

We are witnessing a perfect replication of inane commentator coverage of RGR.

Keep blaming the Voice boys and girls. Your silence on the real issues adds to the pressure that you refuse to expose.

Gabor
Gabor
November 7, 2023 10:16 am

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Nov 7, 2023 10:07 AM

Words fail me, they honestly vooking do!

German kindergarten to change name from Anne Frank to World Explorer as Holocaust victim ‘too political’
Anne Frank became a global symbol of courage in the face of the monstrous evil of the Holocaust.

I alluded to this trend earlier ZULU, this is encouraging the lunatic left and the latent Jew haters to flourish, all done by gov or quasi gov bodies.

Whom are we voting for?

alwaysright
alwaysright
November 7, 2023 10:17 am

Getting hit by a car is traumatic.
Two in on day?!

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:19 am

Any questions from last night I need to check, ML?

I’m going out but will have more time to respond later if need be.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 7, 2023 10:19 am

Cassandra
21 minutes ago
““We wanted a name without a political background,” Ms Schichor said.”

Cowards. Absolute cowards.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:20 am

The tempo of attacks on these bases has only increased since.

Yes, but you suggested there is a strong possibility the Americans will move out of these bases because of the ongoing attacks. Further down in your link it says nearly all the the rocket and missile attacks were thwarted with counter measures. I still maintain there’s not a chance in hell the Americans will empty out these bases. Where are you now?

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 7, 2023 10:21 am

German schoolteachers must be as hopeless as anywhere else, if they can’t explain the story of Ann Frank.

johanna
johanna
November 7, 2023 10:21 am

Fears merit-free hiring could lead to cronyism (Paywallian, 7 Nov)

Merit-based hiring has been abolished for academics and public servants in Queensland to stamp out ‘unconscious bias’, sparking concern about ‘jobs for mates’.

Unconscious bias? More like brainless stupidity. But yes all the jokes about public serpents and loony uni professors are going to be fulfilled in Queensland.

Replacing mythical ‘unconscious bias’ (thanks, Freud) with conscious bias is apparently regarded as A Good Thing.

Tell me, how do we know that the selectors are completely free of unconscious bias?

It’s an Escherian world.

billie
November 7, 2023 10:22 am

There’s a one sided international Holy War, with innumerable followers who believe in their religious directions to exterminate anyone not of their religion. There are various degrees of committment to the Holy War by some of the religion’s followers, they are busy with commerce and such, but have not forgotten their culture.

The dedicated followers of the warring religion have in many places, no other occupation and do not want any other occupation but to be Holy Warriors. Much like the believers in medieval times who went to the holy lands to crusade, with no thought to what comes after. Glory in vctory is everything.

There’s a corrupt and decaying hegemony, the USA, who are still more than capable of undermining and overturning governments anywhere, with 180+ military bases around the world, who challenge their nebulous “world order”.

The forever war machine is being resisted more regularly now and the Ukraine/Russian adventure has failed. The US government has been ruled for decades by their foreign and domestic affairs government organisations and judiciary, with very little possible by their elected politicians. The chance of any other government not of their choosing is highly unlikely. It will be Democrats all the way down since they are more inclined to the ruling organisations.

The middle east, right now, is where those 2 forces might just meet.

For the USA though there is no proxy and if confronted, most likely will use weapons of mass destruction, why else put 2 fleets into harms way. Pearl Harbour all over again. Goad your adversary rlentlessly and leave a tempting target available to draw them in.

World leaders, in name only, can barrack or complain and demand all they like, they are not the decision makers.

If war is coming, it may be a blessing in disguise. A renewal of understanding what is really of value and what is just frivilous waste.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 7, 2023 10:22 am

Fears merit-free hiring could lead to cronyism

Could lead to problems at Pony Club.

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:24 am

‘Most Australian shave little or no interest in “race that stops a nation”‘

— Essential poll

They’re focused on another event today…

‘Interest rate hike would put almost half of mortgages under stress’

— The Guardian

Zatara
Zatara
November 7, 2023 10:25 am

Only place that has form to revolt and eventually fight back is Europe.

Yeah, if you ignore those little scuffles in 1776 and 1812 that is.

Or the one in 1861-1865 for that matter.

Barking Toad
Barking Toad
November 7, 2023 10:26 am

I see JC has got out of bed.

Oh well, another day of scrolling past the rants.

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 10:26 am

JC
Nov 7, 2023 9:19 AM

Hey Mrs Stencho Pantyhose, your crony mate Junior Cretin the Pompous Windbag from Sictoria has been posting more abuse on this lovely Blog.

Nice crony friends that you seem to have here.

No Disclaimer required from moi.

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:26 am

““We wanted a name without a political background,” Ms Schichor said.”

What about ‘The Fatima bint Muhammed Childhood Education Centre’?

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 7, 2023 10:28 am

If you don’t like the Armstrong stuff scroll by FFS

It’s promoting a Ponzi scheme. A criminal enterprise.

This august journal of record is not Reddit or Zeeee Media.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 7, 2023 10:30 am

Words fail me, they honestly vooking do!

Can you swear in Dutch too Zulu?.

Anne Frank’s house to be turned into polling station in Amsterdam’s next elections (6 Nov)

Amsterdam mayor Mayor Femke Halsema has called on security to be stepped up.

In a letter to the city council, Mayor Halsema urged officials “given the situation in Israel and the Palestinian Territories, special attention will be paid to the security of this polling station.”

You betcha it will.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:31 am

Toad, go back to bed then. If you don’t like my comments then scroll past and go read Marty and his diapered side-kick Wodney Woddenhead. What can I tell you.

Dot
Dot
November 7, 2023 10:33 am

Sheer lunacy. Some idiot has somehow linked COVID 19 vaccinations to allegations of money laundering in Ukraine. Um okay???

https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/middle-east-war-expands.7662971/

Marketinfo
33,744 Posts.
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Hamas is a creation of MI6, the CIA and Mossad for the purposes of being “Controlled Opposition”.

It’s currently a play thing of Mossad.

People of the “Death Cult” don’t give a fig if they kill their own or anyone else.

Maybe it’s time to listen to a few lectures from Klaus Schwab, Two Dogs Harari and Kill Bill.

Or if you like a different flavour ………… try Ben Shapiro, Jordan Petersen and Benjamin Mileikowsky …… (Benjamin Netanyahu for the uninitiated)

Take the tip ………………… there’s a plan to kill Billions of people and if you don’t wake up the Death Cult will most likely make it permanent.

I asked a Climate Alarmist to explain the Climate ………. all they could say was: “Computer Says No”

bespoke
bespoke
November 7, 2023 10:33 am

Windbag from Sictoria has been posting more abuse on this lovely Blog.

You are no different, Rotten.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:35 am

Doc

Here’s Harvard’s undergrad curriculum. I can see perhaps five to six dodgy courses while the rest ~45 appear to be fine.

https://www.harvard.edu/programs/

Here’s NYU

https://www.nyu.edu/admissions/undergraduate-admissions/majors-and-programs.html

Seems similar although with a different bent.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 7, 2023 10:35 am

It’s promoting a Ponzi scheme

Thank you. We’ve got our own. They’re called Treasury.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 7, 2023 10:38 am

You are no different, Rotten.

An Italian would never be seen in a knotted hanky.

Barking Toad
Barking Toad
November 7, 2023 10:42 am

If you don’t like my comments then scroll past

Scroll

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 7, 2023 10:43 am

JC
Nov 7, 2023 10:31 AM

Take that nappy off your face. That’s no way to try to hide a big nose and a fat head. Oh, it’s a face mask. Go ahead and get another Booster Jab then. Should help with the blood clots you clot.

Anders
Anders
November 7, 2023 10:44 am

‘Interest rate hike would put almost half of mortgages under stress’

Some of them can thank APRA for scrapping the Interest rate floor in 2019 which had required banks to test their customers’ ability to repay their mortgage at 7.25 interest.

Ooops:

“With interest rates at record lows, and likely to remain at historically low levels for some time, the gap between the 7 per cent floor and actual rates paid has become quite wide in some cases – possibly unnecessarily so,” [APRA] chairman Wayne Byres said.

Customers set to be able to borrow more as APRA moves to scrap key mortgage rule – 2019

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:45 am

Toad, to be honest I can’t ever recall reading anything you’ve posted that’s of any note, so do what I do, which is scroll past with any of your comments. In fact, the only time you had my attention was your silly last evening and now. No biggie.

Scroll

Winston Smith
November 7, 2023 10:48 am

cohenite

Nov 6, 2023 9:07 PM
Whacky world of islam; one tells it all and it’s been discussed here already: when the muzzie dogs reach threshold numbers this happens and they’re proudly screaming it:

Germany: Young Muslims say Muslims will become majority, abolish constitution and impose Sharia

Crunch coming; blackouts and terrorist attacks.

They were bloody well warned. Now they have three choices – mass expulsion, surrender, or Ethnic Cleansing.
They could try taking the sugar off the table, but it’s far too late for that.

JC
JC
November 7, 2023 10:49 am

You are no different, Rotten.

Oh sure he is. He’s a piece of crooked limey garbage promoting a crook.

miltonf
miltonf
November 7, 2023 10:50 am

Thanks to JC and Sancho for the heads up re Armstrong- had never heard of him before mentioned here.

Roger
Roger
November 7, 2023 10:54 am

Germany: Young Muslims say Muslims will become majority, abolish constitution and impose Sharia

Several nascent Muslim political parties are now vying for registration in the UK.

They may pose a serious challenge to Labour in some seats.

Party critics are blaming Keir Starmer’s support for Israel.

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