Deeming tape exposes the Liberal divide, Pesutto should go west

Kevin Andrews, The Spectator (Oz ed), 28 September 2024

It is rare that ordinary Australians gain an insight into the inner workings of political parties. There is good reason for this: parties require a degree of confidentiality to have frank internal discussions free from media intrusion that would hinder rather than assist the resolution of many issues. Although there are leaks from party and caucus meetings, much of the discussion still remains confidential. Cabinet and shadow cabinet meetings and those of leadership groups generally remain confidential.

This past week, Australians have had a rare glimpse of an internal meeting between the leadership group of the Victorian parliamentary Liberal party and the novice MP, Moira Deeming. Ms Deeming had been summoned to meet opposition leader John Pesutto, deputy leader David Southwick and Upper House leaders Georgie Crozier and Matt Bach to discuss her participation in a pro-woman rally. Unknown – apparently to everyone else present – Mr Southwick surreptitiously recorded the conversation. Why he did this is not clear. It may become so when he is cross-examined by the formidable Sue Chrysanthou KC during the defamation proceedings Deeming has brought against Pesutto. The existence of the recording only became public in recent weeks, not having been disclosed earlier in the discovery process in the action. It is now available to all, having been released for publication by the court. Throughout, Mr Southwick sounds like the chief prosecutor.

Whatever his motives, Mr Southwick’s recording is an insight into how the current leadership of the Victorian parliamentary party operates. It is not pretty. My comments are not about the issues that the judge will determine in the defamation trial. Having studied defamation law and given advice about the subject when at the Bar, I am well aware of the intricacies of the subject, and the many twists and turns that are likely to come as various witnesses are cross-examined. Rather, it is the insights into the state of the party that are my focus.

Mr Pesutto’s opening comments are telling: ‘I’ve very much – and you would have heard this over interviews over recent weeks and the last few months – is to try to position the party so that whoever you are, whether you’re hetero, whether you’re same-sex attracted, whether you are trans, whoever you are the Liberal party can be a voice for you because the values of the party apply to anybody, no matter who you are because it’s about enterprise, it’s about the rule of law, strength of communities, personal effort, those sorts of things’.

Mr Pesutto is selective in his recitation of the values of the party. Compare his list with the values that are outlined in the model constitution recently released by the party. The first of these values is, ‘Freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of expression and freedom of association as the building blocks of a robust and fair society.’ These values are repeated in the objectives in the model constitution. The tenor of the 70-minute discussion is that Ms Deeming can hold her views about safe spaces for women, female-only facilities and female-only sporting competitions, but there is no place for her in the parliamentary Liberal party. It is suggested to her that she would be better being an independent. When she failed to embrace this proposal, she was informed that a motion to expel her will be moved unless she resigned in the meantime. The premise of the charge against her was that she associated with Nazis, despite her assertions that she did not know that a neo-Nazi group was planning to disrupt a rally supporting women, at which she spoke. It is understandable that Mr Southwick, who represents an electorate with a large Jewish population, is sensitive to any perceived or alleged connections to Nazism. But he seemed to entirely disregard the fact that the women’s rally itself was organised by, as it happens, a Jewish woman.

Towards the end of the discussion, one of the leadership group referred to the rally organisers as ‘your people’ implying that any association other speakers at the rally had with Nazis represented Deeming’s own position, despite her denials. It was unedifying.

My observation of Liberal party members is that their views about women’s issues are generally aligned to those of Ms Deeming. Indeed, they are the views of the majority of Australians.

If Mr Pesutto’s premise is accepted, the logical consequence is that Liberal MPs will not be able to speak about matters seen as unimportant or unacceptable to the leadership. That has never been the Liberal way.

The recording discloses a number of other worrying matters. The impression I gained was that the leading Liberals were totally cowered by then premier, Dan Andrews. The members of the leadership group repeatedly claimed that the premier would assert the Liberals were pro-Nazi. Instead of calling this the nonsense that it is, they were dancing to Mr Andrews’ claims. There was also undue deference to the left-wing Melbourne Age and to social media. Equally, there seemed to be a fear of the LGBTQIA+ community. While that community is entitled to put its views, it should not be dictating Liberal policy.

The claim that the opposition had the Labor government on the ropes at the time and that Ms Deeming’s participation in the rally was derailing their efforts, frankly seem delusional. There is an ongoing risk to members of parliament of becoming consumed by the media bubble in which they work. I recall phoning my wife from Canberra one afternoon, describing the great question time we (the opposition) had that day. ‘It must have been a different question time to what I was watching on TV,’ was her curt response!

The recording – and the case – reveal a clear division in priorities between the inner-suburban Liberals and the rest of the state. The leadership team represented inner and middle-suburban electorates.

Mr Pesutto is the member for the wealthy, leafy suburbs around Hawthorn. Mr Southwick holds the nearby electorate of Caulfield. Despite growing up at Traralgon in the Latrobe Valley – the son of hard-working Italian migrants – Mr Pesutto often appears to favour the Labor-lite concerns of the city elites.

In contrast, Ms Deeming is one of only two Liberal MPs from the western suburbs. The transport corridor stretching north of the Melbourne CBD along Royal Parade, Sydney Road and the Hume Highway is the dividing line between the east and west of the city.

The Liberal party holds none of the eleven suburban lower-house seats west of that line. For more than half a million electors, the Liberals have just two upper-house members. Despite being successful in a sea of red seats, it seems that it was anathema to the leadership group for Ms Deeming to present the views with which most Victorians associate.

With more members of the parliamentary Liberal party due to give evidence, these divisions are likely to be further exposed.

Noted that conscription is a form of slavery, and if you want an army you need to pay a market rate for people willing to risk their life.

Correct. Or at least have a cause/plan that convinces people to join. Those of us with more than half a brain figured out in 1964 that there wasn’t one as far as Vietnam was concerned and wanted no part of idiot plans to send Australian troops there. We were right.
Not also that 20 year olds were legally not adults at the time. Conscripting children. Charming.
Only one of my friends from school/university got conscripted and none joined the CMF or the military voluntarily. They either weren’t called up or got out on conscientious objection grounds. There was lawyer in Freo who specialised in this. Good for them.
The guy who did get conscripted failed several goes at electrical engineering (hint – don’t make your kid do something he doesn’t want to do. The guy was a keen chemist). He found computers and in some kind of military miracle the Army actually gave him computers to run.

Australia has land and air defence personnel ready to help evacuate its citizens from Lebanon if an operation is ordered…

They were advised to leave in July.

Commercial flights were still operating this week.

Lizzie (Elizabeth) Beare @ 7:07pm

Why does he feel the need to come here?
Why not look for some of his old mates and help out any who are in trouble? A good listening ear might be welcome there, if he could learn to do that.

Two reasons – learning and teaching.

If you read every post on this site, you’ll (very occasionally) find something that is closer to analysis than opinion.

It is always possible to learn something from those rare gems.

And I’m a teacher; have been since 1968. There are teaching moments, even here. I don’t waste them.

As for Why not look for some of his old mates and help out any who are in trouble?

Been doing that for fifty-four years. Of ten in my rifle section, five are now beyond help – Multiple myeloma; two suicides; pancreatic cancer; and one shot by police.

The Misinformation Bill’s Sly Tyranny

Ruben Kirkham, Quadrant Online, 27 September, 2024

The Misinformation Bill is upon us. This is about making the powerful the arbiter of truth: after all, misinformation is largely in the eye of the beholder. The Labor Government knows its bad. That’s why they are trying to sneak it through parliament at the last minute without anyone noticing — an effort which is so far failing. They hope no-one will understand its contents, or even how it works. They are attempting to deflect criticism by providing Potemkin safeguards, such as generalised references to freedom of speech.

The Bill creates a range of powers that are gifted to the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). The first is to make ‘codes’ that regulate a range of online platforms, including social media platforms. At the same time, ACMA will also gain a suite of powers to obtain information from tech companies, as and when they see fit.

If online platforms don’t comply with ACMA’s diktats met, it has the power to issue enormous fines to the tech companies. Worse still, there is a power to fine individuals who advise others how to get around the codes. For example, if this bill passes, then individuals could be fined simply for suggesting the use of a Virtual Private Network (VPN) that makes the user appear to be accessing the internet from outside of Australia.

This Orwellian attack on companies and individuals come straight from the playbook of the Brazilian ‘jurist’ Alexandre de Moraes, who recently imposed fines on Elon Musk’s X Corp (aka Twitter). In response, Musk dubbed de Moraes the “the Darth Vader of Brazil”.

Much of the criticism of the legislation has focussed on its definition of misinformation but that’s a sideshow. The real threat comes because ACMA’s new powers work coercively, rather than directly. ACMA can design codes to favour providers that do its bidding. They can also selectively prosecute breaches of their codes, wherein their true power lies. For example, they can reward social media companies who censor more than is required in line with the dominant ideological emphasis, an issue that has already arisen with respect to the European Union. They can do what the eSafety Commissioner has already done and issue abusive requests for information, followed up with fines when the requests are rejected. The true model is one of collateral censorship, via a quid pro quo model, since any attempt to regulate ‘misinformation’, no matter how narrowly defined, will result in a wide form of censorship.

If you don’t believe this, look at how the eSafety Commissioner — Julie Inman Grant — already operates. Under Statute, the eSafety Commissioner actually has very limited formal powers to take down content. She is required to comply with the ‘implied freedom of political community’. Her powers are officially used rarely, maybe a few dozen each year, according to her own annual reports. Most of the time she instead issues ‘informal notices’ which, according to her, cannot be appealed, even if one is fortunate to find out about them. This approach subverts the rule of law, but also illustrates the risk of creating any body on this topic.

After all, why wouldn’t ACMA do what Ms Inman Grant already does.

As it happens, we have a test case about this in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, namely that of Baumgarten v eSafety Commissioner, where this issue will be determined after a November hearing.

The reality is that companies (other than X), comply with her ‘informal’ requests all the time. This even includes GoDaddy, a web hosting platform that sells domains and takes down websites at her request. So the existing practice already circumvents all the extensive statutory safeguards. The Mis/Dis/Info Bill has the potential to make this even worse. Remember that the eSafety Commissioner is a part of ACMA and all her staff are on its payroll.

But wait, there are some other nasties.

Labor has also launched two other bills that have attracted less attention. The first concerns ‘Doxxing’, but goes well beyond this legitimate concern. If the Bill passes, saying that ‘Roxanne Tickle is a biological man who was originally called Jason’ could potentially land you in prison for up to seven years. The same would go for telling people where Dan Andrews plays golf. Such lengthy custodial sentences would be grossly disproportionate and the effect would be to bring any form of trans rights into disrepute, injuring those the legislation was apparently designed to protect. It is the opposite of progressive.

Then there is the Hate Speech Bill, which will make it even easier to imprison someone for incitement. This works by making modifications to existing offences, lowering the threshold for conviction, and expanding the coverage to a wider range of groups. This is another hidden nasty that it risks being used to imprison people for social media posts, in a similarly draconian manner to what is happening in the UK. Of course, these bills are given no prominence by the government because they don’t want you to know what they are up to.

We’ve got a fight on our hands! The Free Speech Union will be hard at work challenging these Bills. We’ve made a tool that helps you very quickly write a submission to the Senate in a matter of minutes. But please do hurry, you’ve only got until the September 30 to lodge a submission!

To make it easier, here’s the link:freespeechunion.au/misinfo

It is time to write! While we still can.

Dr Reuben Kirkham is a founder of the Free Speech Union of Australia.

Wordle in two again!

How do ya like them Sapote, Panzer?

And I’m a teacher; have been since 1968.

“Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach,”

GBS, Man and Superman.

In the words of John “Sammy” Newman, I couldn’t be less interested in tomorrow’s AFL grand final.

Who’s playing?

Aaron

 September 27, 2024 10:08 am

 Reply to  Cassie of Sydney

I’ve had three great dogs in my life.

How the hell do men… cope with ranking them

That’s easy:

• The kelpie. He was just a beautiful, wonderful bloke. Lived to 18. Not a mean bone in his body. Unbelievable intelligence.
• The border collie/ kelpie cross. Another intelligent, beautiful boy. Only ranks below the kelpie because he did have a bit of mean in him early on, but as an older gentlemen just as gentle and wonderful as the kelp. Gone too soon.
• The Boxer cross. Dumb as a box of rocks. I mean, really stupid. So she can’t rank with the other two. But what a brave girl she was. Brave and tough and willing. Another wonderful dog who I was lucky to have in my life for 16 years.

Makka, you stated that you don’t care how many innocents have to die in exterminating Islamists. “F*ck em. F*uck em all.”

That begs the questions: are there any innocents in islam. Can you be an muzzie and not support the spread of sharia to replace Western democracy. You may nominally disagree with some of the methods used by the active muzzie terrorist scum but not their goals. That would make you just as guilty as the terrorists.

Jacinta Price visited our little town in the Northern Goldfields a couple of days ago.
The worst Australian article is below. Also attached is a pic of some of the people she spoke with. All of these people are local and are feeling the effects of Elbow’s insanity as well as the Native title rorts that are enriching lawyers (spit) and out of town activists who make up the boards of most Aboriginal corporations. L to R Publican,senior elder, JP, another elder, Community health boss.
We haven’t seen any of Elbow’s mob out here as they probably would get laughed, or perhaps run, out of town.

 Northern Goldfields community leaders and members have told Liberal Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price about their challenges since the cashless debit card was abolished, as well as problems with native title.

Speaking to media on Wednesday after trips to Leonora and Laverton, Senator Price said she would be back to the region again soon after a “raft” of issues were raised with her from locals.

“The leaders from the communities that we visited today said there was absolute destruction when the cashless debit card was removed,” she said.
“They saw the trail of evidence of access to alcohol in that there were empty bottles of rum littering their communities, literally the day that people were able to come off the cashless debit card.
“We know that when the cashless debit card was introduced, those that were being incarcerated, the rates of domestic and family violence appeared to be halved.
“They could see the difference on the ground as to how positive the cashless debit card was, and why (the Albanese) Government has decided to remove that from our most vulnerable community members is beyond me.”

Senator Price was joined on her trip by senator Matt O’Sullivan, member for O’Connor Rick Wilson. member for Mining and Pastoral Region Neil Thomson and Liberal candidate for the seat of Kalgoorlie Rowena Olsen.
Senator Price said the concerns raised with her further supported her calls for an inquiry into land councils, statutory authorities and Aboriginal organisations funded to close the gap in areas such as the Goldfields, as well as an inquiry into native title legislation.
“(The inquiry is to) help us understand where the billions of dollars have been spent and why they have been failing locals here,” she said.
“There are so many issues with native title where there are traditional owners who are being completely overlooked, shut out, from the opportunity of negotiations, from the opportunity to be able to better their communities, whether it’s through royalties, whether it’s through employment opportunities . . . and something desperately needs to be done to look into how native title can better the lives of our most marginalised.

“The cost of living is a huge issue for people throughout the Goldfields, whether it is the Indigenous community or the non-Indigenous community . . . there’s a raft of issues, and quite frankly, it’s appalling that Anthony Albanese and his Government continue to ignore what the needs are on the ground here.
“But I’m very glad to have had the opportunity to get around to these communities and I will absolutely be back again . . . because there’s a lot more conversations to be had.”

Through this candid father-daughter conversation, you’ll gain fresh insights into how food, and the beliefs we hold about it, are used as tools of manipulation and control—and how we can break free from these destructive pattern

I am still out to lunch (pardon the pun!) on the implication of government and other sinister forces (aka Big Pharma) on the planning of our actual destruction.

BUT – and it is a big “but” – the Covid years convinced us to completely change our diet. Unvaccinated or not, it seemed like a good opportunity to “get healthy”. So – I revamped our diet – cut out biscuits and the folksy (but unwise) farm cakes, restricted the carbs, and ensured we had fish (kept in freezer) at least twice a week. Every morning we have a blender concoction of water/blueberries/green apples/carrots & celery. Then out come the vitamens so derided by the medical profession – VitC, VitD3, Magnesium, Coq10, Zinc, and a bifidobacterium longus probiotic (Meta Align). And for good measure, we add a low dose aspirin (Cartia).

Our cholesterol has dropped dramatically – not that I take the cholesterol stuff that seriously – but it is instructive to note the influence of diet.

As for the other half of the equation – exercise – well folks, husband and I get PLENTY of that on the farm. Even so, I have persuaded a reluctant husband to accompany me on at least half of my roughly 3km walk around the farm on most mornings. I still believe that the humble rambling walk is one of the best cardio assistance measures you can adopt.

I don’t reject all that the medical brotherhood propagate. Indeed, I regularly scan the latest research on topics of interest – with the full knowledge that much is funded by Big Pharma and some of it is manufactured.Nonetheless, I am impressed with the latest belief in the interaction of the gut/brain/nervous system axis, for example, particularly for post viral symptoms. Hence the probiotic. And the one I use is specifically chosen.

?

War has rules, says Senator Wong. Even with terrorists.

I know about rules of law and Just War Theory. But how do you fight villians who don’t subscribe to either?

There is another way. The Chicago way:-

https://youtu.be/xPZ6eaL3S2E?si=sN4-rMvfamh1D1zU

Mona’s ‘Ladies Lounge’ wins court battle to exclude men from art-filled spaceBy Gabriella CoslovichSeptember 27, 2024 — 10.10am

Listen to this article
3 min
The controversial Ladies Lounge at Tasmania’s Museum of Old and New Art will be permitted to reopen and continue to refuse entry to men following a decision by the state’s Supreme Court that found it was not in breach of anti-discrimination law.
On Friday morning, Acting Justice Shane Marshall overturned an April decision by the Tasmanian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, which had found the Ladies Lounge in breach of Tasmania’s Anti-Discrimination Act 1998.

Boambee John @ 11.02am

I’ve had direct experience with that committee. They are reasonable if you are.
They are very firm on preventing any disruption to the lives of veterans. 

Is it reasonable to demand that prior to interview the researcher must ask the participant if he has a diagnosis of PTSD, and if the answer is in the affirmative, then the veteran’s counsellor must sit in on the interview?

That was where we parted company.

In my view (and that of my supervisor) it wasn’t, and I wasn’t prepared to budge on that. Asking a veteran if he has a diagnosis is a breach of privacy, and unacceptable.

The university designed a process which preserved both he dignity and the privacy of the participants.

DVA apparently has not heard of post-traumatic growth.

This phenomena was a feature of the lives of most interviewed.

Hence the title – A Sweet Use of Adversity. (William Shakespeare, As you Like It).

Full extract –
Sweet are the uses of adversity,Which, like the toad, ugly and venomous,Wears yet a precious jewel in his head;And this our life, exempt from public haunt,Find tongues in trees, books in the running brooks,Sermons in stones, and good in everything.
I am particularly fond of the last line, especially as it applies to this site.

I think time has almost run out to forward a submission in respect to the appalling amended legislation proposed to limit and adjudicate free speech on social media, such as this website.

A couple of Cats asked for suggestions regarding submissions. For what it is worth (probably not much), here is my previous submission which I have resubmitted because it still covers my objections:

SUBMISSION to AUSTRALIAN COMMUNICATIONS & MEDIA AUTHORITY

It took centuries for the citizens of ancient Athens to struggle to obtain the freedom and right to debate policies and decisions in the public square. Those debates were held to the torch of credibility and evidence which all could wield. In the millenia which followed somehow that spirit of inquiry and reason prevailed, despite attacks from autocrats and those who wielded inherited or acquired wealth.

The spread of universal literacy and the printing press increased the power of the written word and deepened the strength of the freedom that education brought to the wider community. The extent of access to information today, via the internet, is unparalleled in human history. But so, too, is the capacity of the citizen to critique that information. In much of the world – but particularly in western societies – extended education and literacy is available to all.

It is therefore inexplicable that a modern, progressive government could propose legislation that presupposes that its citizens are incapable of distinguishing false from plausible information. It is axiomatic that the platform of our entire system of education is the ability to distinguish fact from fiction.

But the further intervention of a government agency in the determination of correct data violates the very principle of the millennia of struggle for individual freedom of thought and decision making. To go down that road is to risk shattering the belief that the individual, and his or her understanding matters.

No government should ever contemplate that road. It is a road that may take us all into a place we would never choose to go.

Sinking a nuclear sub at the dock is embarrassing (if it happened) but no more so than losing a docked helo/assault ship due to fire while undergoing maintenance.
Keep dissing Chinese engineering. IIRC they have 3 rovers on the Moon right now, still operating and have successfully landed stuff on Mars.

She/it isn’t actually ironing anything except the ironing board.

Typical woman.
She probably burnt dinner too.