Open Thread – Tues 14 Sept 2021


Battle of Tours, Charles de Steuben, 1837.

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Indolent
Indolent
September 17, 2021 8:26 am

It’s not as if Australia is the only country ending lockdowns

Have I missed something?

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
September 17, 2021 8:32 am

Farmer Gez, the word you want is ‘segue’ pronounced segway. A segway is a kind of machine that you can ride.

miltonf
miltonf
September 17, 2021 8:36 am

Anyone thinking of voting lieboral in Vicco should consider the federal abominations endorsed by the same pardy- Hunt, Ryan, Hume, Henderson, Tehan. Hunt is an agent of the WEF which he freely admits. Doesn’t he even have a copy of the Great Reset for all to see? One Vicco lieboral whom I have a particular dislike for is Fifield who has a sinecure on the UN now.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 17, 2021 8:39 am

Does anyone know which countries ‘gear’ is going into building traitor Turnbullshitters Snowy Mountain 2.0?

Voith Hydro, Germaneee.
With subcontracts let everywhere.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 8:40 am

A question posed to all:

I have a friend who has not been vaccinated – her reason being that she fears her own personal medical conditions might contraindicate. Among these the one that is foremost in her mind is that she is prone to allergies which are, of course, immunological responses. She has other things that concern her but allergies are the main one.

She is hoping to find a doctor in Sydney who would in good faith assess the risks and provide impartial advice and, if it is prudent, provide her with a medical exemption.

She is not a paranoid or conspiracy theorist. She has a healthy diet (partly dictated by aforementioned allergies and some intolerances) and keeps herself in good shape with regular exercise and workouts – she’s actually quite stunning: credit to the genes she inherited and how she has managed her inheritance.

She lives on the North Shore/Northern Beaches area in Sydney – which gives an indication of where is within her reach.

So: Does anyone know of a doctor about whom they are confident will give honest and disinterested advice and assistance?

miltonf
miltonf
September 17, 2021 8:41 am

Actually, where does the Patterson whizz kid stand on this assault on liberty and enterprise?

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 8:41 am

Dotsays:
September 17, 2021 at 8:19 am
What is the cost of a W-88?

I don’t think that they are available at either Bunnings or Big W.

First, mine your uranium, then convert it to reactor fuel, then burn it in the reactor, then re-process to extract the plutonium, then …

Or, first mine the uranium, then convert to hexafluoride, then enrich, then …

Then start your test program, after lifting a design from the www.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 8:43 am

For military type Cats – 17th September – anniversary of the opening of Operation Market Garden, and the battle for the Rhine Bridges, in 1944.

rugbyskier
rugbyskier
September 17, 2021 8:46 am

The local radio station’s traffic updates have been stating which border crossings have police checkpoints this morning. Good heads up for those who want to sneak across the border.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2021 8:46 am

NT News today is carrying reports Uk soldiers will be rotated through the Top End, just like the US Marines are….

Old School Conservative
Old School Conservative
September 17, 2021 8:48 am

“Forget Ronaldo, this is the biggest comeback of the year.”

A comment about Piers Morgan’s new global television deal with News Corp.
Piers will be coming to Sky.
Morgan is “the broadcaster every channel wants but is too afraid to hire”, News Corp executive chairman Rupert Murdoch said after striking the deal.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 17, 2021 8:49 am

Has anyone seen media of Lord Waffleworth on submarines?

The slightest bit:

Mr Turnbull, who is reserving his position until briefed, nonetheless reminded people of his autobiography in which he revealed the French subs were chosen because they could one day be converted back to nuclear.

So:
• I am still relevant and central to everything, someone needs to brief me so my golden thoughts may flourish;
• Read my book;
• I was right all along.

And, now, back to the important business of shitcanning Christian Porter and discomfiting the ungrateful Government that never appreciated me…

Northshore Redneck
Northshore Redneck
September 17, 2021 8:51 am

Mother Load,

Sent you a message on Discord regarding your query.

jupes
jupes
September 17, 2021 8:53 am

So: Does anyone know of a doctor about whom they are confident will give honest and disinterested advice and assistance?

It is illegal for doctors to disinterested advice. They can be prosecuted if they recommend not to take the vaccine.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 8:54 am

Top Ender, what is your opinion of the ANZUS Alliance with Milley as chairman of the joint chiefs? It seems that the Pentagon has a momentum of its own independent of its leadership — even when the chairman of the joint chiefs is off his rocker.

John H.
John H.
September 17, 2021 8:56 am

Zulu Kilo Two Alphasays:
September 17, 2021 at 8:43 am
For military type Cats – 17th September – anniversary of the opening of Operation Market Garden, and the battle for the Rhine Bridges, in 1944.

I trust you are not suggesting that has historical parallel with AUUKUS.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 8:57 am

Indolent. The funeral director is a self promoter. He’s bandying statistics about and making shit up. Don’t go into business with him. He reeks of it.

I wached half of it and had then had enough of his self-promotion. He is a small-scale operator, who is paralleling known facts with his own dubious interpretations (perhaps his line of business encourages that, lol), ie. the genuine aged care home Covid wave did happen in Britain, we saw exactly the same thing in Victoria with Dan’s 800 dead aged, and later, when a vaxx is available he parallels taking the vaxx with the rise in deaths that were simply the result of the second wave hitting. Of course more people were getting vaxxed then. We see the same here. Yes, there has not been a massive increase in the overall death rates because Covid is not particularly lethal to any but the aged, and influenza deaths are down possibly due to conflation with Covid, also due to more ‘flu vaxxes being given and Covid measures also diminishing the transfer of ‘flu.

Don’t like the vaxx, don’t have the vaxx. BitChute is trying hard to whip up unwarranted fervour against them. There is no evidence of a major conspiracy to kill off the population. That is Bird stuff. Vaxxes do kill a few, and always have, and there are always side effects. These are better than some in terms of death rate, better than the Yellow Fever vaxx for instance, and a damned sight better for risk taking than getting Covid if you are over 50 or 60 unless you take good care of your immune system in other ways. Even then, the risk is on you, and neither Hairy nor I are prepared to divide our friends nor the general population on the basis of Vaxx status. We are all at some risk when it comes down to it. Let’s party and enjoy our freedom to decide!!

jupes
jupes
September 17, 2021 8:57 am

Mr Turnbull, who is reserving his position until briefed, nonetheless reminded people of his autobiography in which he revealed the French subs were chosen because they could one day be converted back to nuclear.

LOL

Then why didn’t you just by the nuke version you fucking dipstick?

Also, if SloMo briefs the fuckwit then he is bigger moron than even I took him for.

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 17, 2021 8:59 am

A segway is a kind of machine that you can ride

It also has a tendency to segue from a ‘cool and hip’ moment, to ED visits and viral videos on the soshul meeja…

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 17, 2021 9:03 am

Mr Turnbull… revealed the French subs were chosen because they could one day be converted back to nuclear.

Errr… Nope.

Do you even Engineer, bro?!

This is not some simple, basic re-engining of a paddlesteamer on the grounds that a diesel engine and reduction gearbox can do the same job of twirling the wheels more cheaply.

(Notwithstanding the technological heresy and historical vandalism of even thinking to commit such an act…)

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 9:04 am

Look at this, look and laugh..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2021/sep/17/australia-covid-live-update-melbournes-alcohol-ban-to-stay-when-outdoor-restrictions-ease-national-cabinet-to-discuss-home-quarantine-lockdown-aged-care-vaccine-mandate-gladys-berejiklian-daniel-andrews-nsw-sydney-victoria-coronavirus

There is one small complication though – an exemption to the current ban on removing masks to drink alcohol outside of the home has not been granted, effectively making it illegal to have a tipple during picnics unless done under the mask, through a straw.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:04 am

Lockdowns, btw, also diminish death by other causes, in the short term at least. Fewer motor vehicle fatalities for a start. Fewer deaths from risk-taking sports and travel. Later we may begin to see some excess deaths emerging due to the results of lockdowns, particularly in cancers and other life-shortening diseases not picked up early and in suicides as more people are driven to a financial edge, a process which can take a year or two.

Old School Conservative
Old School Conservative
September 17, 2021 9:05 am

Every day this week the WSJ has published parts of an in depth report into facebook.
More than enough to open a RICO investigation.

Heh.
I’ve just finished watching Halifax:Retribution (c’mon man, I’m in lockdown).
The baddy, a serial killer who also wants to blow up Melbourne, is motivated by far fetched ideals such as the immoral actions of Facebook, and the intrusive nature of facial recognition software.

Written in about 2018/19, the crazy theories driving the nutter are today known truths.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:05 am

effectively making it illegal to have a tipple during picnics unless done under the mask, through a straw.

lol. Any port in a storm.

Dr Faustus
Dr Faustus
September 17, 2021 9:06 am

Military and geopolitical expert, Mr Rude, endorses the Global Times view on counter-ratfuckery:

“The question for Australia is — are you going be an intelligent ally in response to that and develop the capabilities able to defend Australia against a range of contingencies, assist our allies as needed?” Mr Rudd said.

“It is far better that we develop our kit and equipment as Australia, around a range of contingencies and not engage in loose public rhetorical language about it being directed against one country or another.”

Obviously.

The UN made a terrible mistake by not creating a special role for this Great Man.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 9:06 am

I trust you are not suggesting that has historical parallel with AUUKUS.

An operation that came very close to success, and largely failed because of the failure of the Americans to follow their orders?

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:06 am

Has anyone seen media of Lord Waffleworth on submarines? Once the plug is pulled on Snowy 2.0 (if debt ever begins to matter again) he will be remembered for poofta weddings and hopeless light bulbs. Something I guess.

And ensuring Australia remained a monarchy. There is that.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:07 am

The baddy, a serial killer who also wants to blow up Melbourne

That’s bad?

*ducks, as Melbournians raise hackle feathers for a fight*

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2021 9:07 am

Milley is a clown from what little I’ve seen. He’s likely a stalking horse to keep the loonier Dems happy. Meanwhile the real business of the USA – being a nuclear global superpower – can proceed unnoticed. I note this is their real business in world affairs, and persists despite of who is POTUS.

The Triple Alliance (!) is a good idea in that at least it sends a message to the Chinese – signals that the RN is back in the Pacific; we are a Pacific alliance etc.

Given the Frogs are a nuclear power and have carriers maybe they might even join in one day, once they have got over the sulks.

Then India too – another nuclear power – and we could all push China back to the wall.

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 17, 2021 9:08 am

Zulu Kilo Two Alphasays:
September 17, 2021 at 8:43 am
For military type Cats – 17th September – anniversary of the opening of Operation Market Garden, and the battle for the Rhine Bridges, in 1944.

The original account of A Bridge Too Far has its inaccuracies and biases.

The movie itself suffers the same fate.

But damned if it isn’t a rollicking good show. And the music is just a corker…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:09 am

And ensuring Australia remained a monarchy. There is that.

As long as we de-politicise King Charles. Otherwise, I’m still in favour of a Monarchy but hope we adher to an old Monarchical tradition for Bad Kings. Off with head! Put it on a pike on the Gherkin.

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 9:09 am
Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 9:11 am

I see Rowe is still drawing Biden as a spry, alert, and with the arch confidence of someone a step ahead of everyone he deals with.

And the cartoon that depicts this is one that refers to the event where Biden could not even remember a name he must have heard only moments before and certainly written in front of him, a common name in the Anglophone world.

I have always thought Garrison’s drawing of Trump as thin as being a little too much license but Trump’s physical shape is irrelevant to his conduct and achievements so it cold be justified as providing a physical impression of something abstract.

But Rowe’s Biden directly contradicts the single most pertinent aspect of Biden – that he is a shambling, confused, crotchety, inarticulate ice-cream hoover and child-sniffer who does not even have the sense to conceal the fact that other people are telling him what to do – a puppet whose sole connection to the world is his strings such that he thinks the strings are the world.

Gilas
Gilas
September 17, 2021 9:11 am

jupes says:
September 17, 2021 at 8:53 am

So: Does anyone know of a doctor about whom they are confident will give honest and disinterested advice and assistance?

It is illegal for doctors to disinterested advice. They can be prosecuted if they recommend not to take the vaccine.

Correct.
The NSW Medical Council and the Australian Medical Council’s Chair, Dr Anne Tonkin (yes, another Karen) wrote to all Drs months ago about this, threatening disciplinary action for giving the “wrong” advice
Australian fascism is real, make no mistake.

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:12 am

As long as we de-politicise King Charles.

Ascending the throne itself will give him considerable less freedom to make political comments.

Besides which, most of the time he’s 17 000 kms away and nobody cares.

That’s the genius of our monarchy. What the progressives regard as a bug is actually it’s best feature!

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 9:12 am

Hey Rugby Skier,
Have a look at the WAZE app, this allows public input of speed cameras, accidents, road debris, police, etc

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 9:12 am

Interesting take on Biden by Edward Luttwak over at UnHerd. Not sure that Biden still understands what he is doing, but his ideas under Obummer were (if as described) ahead of their time.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:16 am

his head

Although why not make it a few others, as was often done to evil supporters of Bad Kings?

This head-chopping business, now sadly out of style except in remnant religions, was also a grand British tradition from the pre-Christian Iron Age period. In Lancaster when we were living there for six months in 2010 a drain cover discovered by Council workers turned out to be a Roman ‘Riter’ grave stone, showing the usual picture of a triumphant Imperialist Roman trampling a poor smote barbarian underfoot. On this classical memorial stone though the Roman soldier in full Roman dress had a group of four heads tied to his saddle to add to his own collection and that of the just smote barbarian was going to make number five. Our Centurian was going native, I expect. 🙂

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 9:16 am

Aussie Cossack More community policing by NSW Fascists

A generation of kids will grow up (and a generation of adults are learning) to view police with distrust and suspicion.

If they thought their job was hard before let them see how it will be when they do not enjoy public support.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 9:17 am

Then look at this and feel a little rage…

‘Despicable’: Sydney police stop Muslim mourners from watching funerals from cars
NSW police say people were in breach of public health orders as four men arrested at Rookwood cemetery

Leaving aside the special pleading about the religious aspects of the burial its despicable and vile and whomever decided this was necessary should be sacked.

Under lockdown rules, only 10 people can attend a funeral.

So when three families had to bury their dead at Rookwood cemetery on Wednesday, some turned up in cars, allowing them to watch without being present outside.

Police arrived soon after the families had parked up, preventing them from burying the dead until all the cars left. NSW police said there were a “large number of attendees” and that they were “in breach of the current public health orders.“

According to mourners who spoke to Guardian Australia under the condition of anonymity, up to 10 police vehicles turned up, knocking on car windows and instructing them to leave.

Tensions escalated, with attendees saying they were frustrated at their inability to even watch their loved ones being buried, let alone fulfil the traditions they hold dear.

Four men were arrested as the families pleaded with police to allow them to watch the burials.

Kieran O’Halloran, a family friend who turned up to pay his respects, said he was shocked at the behaviour of the police.
“The way they acted was despicable. They showed no sensitivity to the fact it was a funeral and had no reverence for the cemetery.

“No one was talking out of line, and then the police just marched on them. They surged forward, getting right in your face. Of course they’re gonna get a reaction from some people.”

O’Halloran described what he witnessed as “traumatic” and called the police response “disproportionate”.

“If I was burying my father today, that would leave such a sour taste. I was absolutely disgusted. They really, really should offer those families an apology for what happened.”

NSW police allege that one of the men had become “aggressive” and “threatened an officer”. He has been charged with intimidation of police, use of offensive language in public and a failure to comply with public health orders.

“Officers attached to Auburn, Burwood, Bankstown and Campsie Police Area Commands attended along with the Public Order and Riot Squad (PORS),” the force said.

“The group of between 80 and 100 people dispersed when directed by police; however, four men failed to comply and remained in the area.”

Three of the four men were issued fines, while the fourth was refused bail and will appear at Burwood local court on Thursday.
The mourner, who did not want to be named, said everyone had worn masks and practised social distancing. He said he had stayed up to five meters away from any other person.

He also said that it had been particularly difficult considering that his family had not seen the deceased in months, because of the lockdown.

“None of us have seen our him for months. And now that he’s left us, and because of this situation, we don’t have a chance to farewell him.
“But then we see pictures of people on Bondi beach or in the east, and the police walking around, and they said nothing. But when it comes to the western suburbs, they target us.”

The sense of anger was palpable, according to another mourner, who said people had asked police why they were breaking up a funeral and “not in Bondi”.

So people found a way to attend a funeral which had zero health risks and some retarded spider monkey in head office decides they should be dispersed anyway.

Old School Conservative
Old School Conservative
September 17, 2021 9:17 am

Rex, that was a funny segue to Erectile Dysfunction.

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:20 am

Interesting take on Biden by Edward Luttwak over at UnHerd.

I note Lu Kewen gets a favourable nod for stating the bleedin’ obvious at the time.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 9:21 am

The original account of A Bridge Too Far has its inaccuracies and biases.

The best accounts are Robin Neillands “Battle For the Rhineland” and Robert Kershaw’s “It Never Snows in September” for an account from the German side.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:22 am

I was too distracted by iron ore shitting itself & missed seeing met coal at $US360/t.
That beautiful, black stuff.
Keeping NSW afloat.
That and stamp duty.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 9:23 am

Lizzie

Later we may begin to see some excess deaths emerging due to the results of lockdowns, particularly in cancers and other life-shortening diseases not picked up early and in suicides as more people are driven to a financial edge, a process which can take a year or two.

WE are already seeing increases in deaths from cancer, diabetes and dementia (Mater posted a link to ABS data on a separate thread a couple of days ago).

lotocoti
lotocoti
September 17, 2021 9:24 am

Ascending the throne itself will give him considerable less freedom to make political comments.

Approbation.
Elevation.
Castration.

Per Yes Minister.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 9:24 am

It is illegal for doctors to disinterested advice. They can be prosecuted if they recommend not to take the vaccine.

My understanding is that they have to push the vaccines as the only treatment and may not speak of alternatives. It is about the treatments.

This is more about a case where neither treatment might be applicable. We know exemptions exist.

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:25 am

Luttwak on Rudd:

Rudd’s opinion was especially weighty because he was considered pro-Chinese (he happily speaks Chinese and even has a Chinese name, Lù Kèwén).

Lu Kewen happily speaking Chinese.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:26 am

The UN made a terrible mistake by not creating a special role for this Great Man.

He could have brought down the UN single-handedly.
What fools we were. What an opportunity missed.
If you want someone to bugger something up, give Kev a call.

Barry
Barry
September 17, 2021 9:27 am

Numerology

Chaldean name numerology for Covid = 21
Chaldean name numerology for Stalag = 15

Covid-19 –> 21 – 19 = 2
Stalag-13 –> 15 – 13 = 2

and 2 stands for Adam and Eve = Humanity imprisoned for eternity.

It’s all preordained in the stars.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 9:31 am

Milley is a clown from what little I’ve seen. He’s likely a stalking horse to keep the loonier Dems happy. Meanwhile the real business of the USA – being a nuclear global superpower – can proceed unnoticed.

I suspected as much, Top Ender. Thanks for your insight.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:32 am

WE are already seeing increases in deaths from cancer, diabetes and dementia (Mater posted a link to ABS data on a separate thread a couple of days ago).

OK. They are quick these days. I’ll pay that.

One thing that funeral director mentioned that I found interesting was his moan that the NHS was not treating people properly for end-of-life conditions such as pancreatic cancer, where it was difficult to access specialist services (the long wait) and people were send home with some Gaviscon to die.

That was pretty much the experience of my friends, where his mother was sent to them for care in her last days, dying of Covid, but suffering terminal cancer too without having had much treatment.

And yet this couple still swear by ‘The NHS’. She even sewed masks for the NHS in the early days of PEP shortages. It’s a National Religion, but letting its believers down quite a lot now.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:32 am

PPE, that is.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
September 17, 2021 9:33 am

This couple’s mum/m-in-law died in their home and they both came down with bad Covid. They were given panadol, although for a week he was apparently on the edge of death. Nurses visits only.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:34 am

Tony Abbott has written a column in the Oz today that has a Greg Sheridan level of stupid.

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 9:35 am

Ergas promoting Vax Passports from Paywallian

It is undoubtedly true that preventing people who choose not to be vaccinated from engaging in ­activities that are open to the vaccinated involves a degree of coercion. But that hardly means any such restrictions ought to be opposed by those who place a high value on liberty.

There are, on the contrary, arguments for restrictions of this kind that should appeal even to libertarians.

After all, no one has a right to impose a harm on others by negligently disregarding their rights and interests. And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

Indeed, for most accidental harms, the law of torts – which towering libertarians, such as Friedrich Hayek, have not only endorsed but eulogised – serves precisely that purpose, entitling the victim of a negligent act to rely on the coercive powers of the state to secure compensation from the act’s perpetrator.

Were tort law readily applicable to highly contagious diseases, it would not only help compensate victims; the threat of being sued would deter negligent transmission, inducing people to seek vaccination, or, knowing or suspecting that they have a communicable disease, to self-isolate.

There are, however, obvious difficulties in relying on the remedies offered by the law of tort to control the spread of Covid.

In part, those difficulties relate to the complexities of making out a case: it would, for example, be virtually impossible to unambiguously identify the culprits in a lengthy chain of transmission.

But even if those issues could be addressed, many of the costs of Covid do not fall on those who catch the disease; they are instead borne by society as a whole, through broader economic and social losses that tort law is neither designed to recover nor to effectively prevent.

And with an infection that can spread explosively, it is surely preferable to pre-emptively reduce the probability of outbreaks, rather than relying, almost certainly unsuccessfully, on private legal action to pursue those who helped trigger an outbreak once it had ­occurred.

Given those difficulties, other instruments – such as “vaccinal passports” – must fulfil the functions that tort law cannot serve, including preventing immediate harm and encouraging the taking of reasonable precautions.

Moreover, since those other instruments are merely regulatory substitutes for the (coercive) law of tort, it is scarcely sensible to criticise them for being coercive; rather, the only real issue is whether they are more coercive than they need to be.

Inevitably, the answer to that question depends on an assessment of the facts.

If one believes that Covid is not a serious disease, then any restriction on the unvaccinated is plainly unjustifiable. And much the same would hold were vaccination ineffective or unduly dangerous. But if one accepts the Doherty Institute report and the latest modelling by the US Centres for Disease Control, the picture is altogether different.

Those studies suggest that the unvaccinated are about five times more likely than the vaccinated to catch Covid. Even assuming that the unvaccinated and the vaccinated transmit the disease at exactly the same rate, that implies that adding just one unvaccinated person to a group of five people who are vaccinated doubles the risk of there being a person in the group who has Covid.

To that extent, the unvaccinated free-ride on a benefit they have done nothing to secure, other than by making a trivial contribution to the fiscal cost of the vaccines. It could be argued that their free riding on the risks and inconvenience borne by the vaccinated causes no harm, as the benefit remains intact, at least in the short term; but it is reasonable to suggest that a free society will struggle to survive if the principle of mutual obligation can be lightly disregarded, including when it comes to sharing the cost of vital public goods. Rather, just as refusing to be conscripted in times of war should not come cheaply, so the refusal to be vaccinated when one readily and safely could ought to come with hurdles and burdens attached.

Of course, it may be that imposing any such penalties will prove unnecessary. Perhaps the intense fear of Covid that has gripped Australia will make very high levels of vaccination easy to achieve. But even if it did, there would still be a risk that when the vaccinations have to be renewed, the passage of time will have dulled the panic, causing herd immunity, and the benefits it brings, to be lost.

Having lived in fear for the past two years, wouldn’t it be ironic if now all we had to fear was the waning of fear itself?

HENRY ERGAS COLUMNIST

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 9:37 am

Heather Heying and Bret Weinsteins book is out

A HUNTER-GATHERER’S GUIDE TO THE 21ST CENTURY

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:38 am

And yet this couple still swear by ‘The NHS’. She even sewed masks for the NHS in the early days of PEP shortages. It’s a National Religion, but letting its believers down quite a lot now.

Slaying Dragons: Britain’s national religion, the NHS

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 9:39 am

Ergas promoting Vax Passports from Paywallian

He could have just saved himself a lot of garbage words by say “I’m old, and don’t want to accept being old, so you all must accept a new world order fascist society, for me, because I say so”.

A Suggestion
A Suggestion
September 17, 2021 9:42 am

And yet this couple still swear by ‘The NHS’. She even sewed masks for the NHS in the early days of PEP shortages. It’s a National Religion, but letting its believers down quite a lot now.

Is it time to rethink “preventative” medicine in light of rights infringements?

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 9:43 am

The NHS myth..

The introduction of free healthcare by post-war British prime minister Clement Atlee was good news for a war-weary nation. Seventy years later, that 1940s sentiment lingers on. It’s supported by a powerful subjective experience. Of course people are grateful when they are sick and in the hands of doctors and nurses. It would seem churlish to think critically about such a service.

The NHS reality.
I was formed around the same time mass antibiotics became available to the public, taking credit for “saving granny”.

It really is that simple.
No antibiotics and the NHS is just a big waiting room for people to die in.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:43 am

Woolfe, I read Ergas after the Tony Abbott column.
Another shit day at the Oz.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:43 am

The NHS has killed more poms than the Nazis ever did.

JC
JC
September 17, 2021 9:45 am

I had a good laugh this morning. Went to get my morning coffee at the Greek dude’s cafe/restaurant like I always do and we got to talking.

He’s not getting the vax. I asked him about all the potential limitations and he said he has it all figured out.

He’s found a doc who will write him up as having had the vax.

I never thought of this angle before.

You gotta love humanity. It’s so fucking creative. 🙂

lotocoti
lotocoti
September 17, 2021 9:45 am

Meanwhile, in cloud cuckoo land.
Eating more fish could save planet.
Haven’t read it, but I assume it’s something about sea levels
and the amount of water fish displace.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 9:45 am

In his daily email on his latest cartoon subject, Ben Garrison notes:

Funny how this (the Woodward-Costa book coverage) is happening after Biden’s disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. Is Milley just another distraction from Afghanistan and the Arizona audit? Is the Deep State going after Milley to protect Joe Biden? Both CNN and The Washington Post released stories attacking Milley as a Military Industrial Complex bad actor, we already knew that about the “woke” general.

I think the bit I’ve bolded is the latest Deep State strategy.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 9:47 am

It’s vindicating how ‘covid’ has outed every ‘conservative’ or ‘liberal’ leaning columnist and figurehead as the self interested frauds they are and have always been.

If a person is on column speed dial with the tiny australian media oligarchy, they’re literally on the payroll and will say what they’re allowed to say, which is what suits the narrative of the ruling class at any given moment.

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 9:47 am

After all, no one has a right to impose a harm on others by negligently disregarding their rights and interests. And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

The used to be a reasonableness test in the law.

Alas, it has largely gone by the wayside, lost in the thickets of tort law.

Which is why Ergas can get away with this sort of overreach today.

Zipster
Zipster
September 17, 2021 9:47 am

And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

flu vax passports now!

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 9:48 am

To that extent, the unvaccinated free-ride on a benefit they have done nothing to secure, other than by making a trivial contribution to the fiscal cost of the vaccines. It could be argued that their free riding on the risks and inconvenience borne by the vaccinated causes no harm, as the benefit remains intact, at least in the short term; but it is reasonable to suggest that a free society will struggle to survive if the principle of mutual obligation can be lightly disregarded, including when it comes to sharing the cost of vital public goods. Rather, just as refusing to be conscripted in times of war should not come cheaply, so the refusal to be vaccinated when one readily and safely could ought to come with hurdles and burdens attached.

What is “free ride” of which you speak?

Vaccines protect the vaccinated. Or has it finally dawned on you that the vaccines don’t really work like you hoped they would? And there’s a little niggle jn the back of your brain, isn’t there, that the pseudovaccines might cause you some harm in the long term.

Best to get in early and punish and demonise the unvaccinated, eh, Henry?

Wooly thinking. Who exactly is really fearful here?

Zipster
Zipster
September 17, 2021 9:48 am

China Threatens To Send WARSHIPS To US Territory, Gen. Milley Subverted And Weakened The US Military

an interesting response from the tyrant. clearly the cocksucker wants to avoid war.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 9:53 am

Woops. Dover’s formatting wouldn’t let me bold this sentence:

Is the Deep State going after Milley to protect Joe Biden?

.. which I think is the current Deep State strategy. In other words, like the old revolving door at the Kremlin, Milley will shortly be deep-sixed and replaced by another Democratic Party tool who won’t draw attention to himself while he dismantles the US military’s war fighting capacity. — the reason the CCP bought the Biden family.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 9:54 am

Many…many words to soothe his fear by blaming others and wanting them to be punished.

What a guy! What a towering intellect!

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:54 am

Farmer Gez, how do these Victorian covid numbers compare to NSW?
You’ve keep track.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2021 9:54 am

Speaking of Krudd, he is in Darwin this weekend, speaking at the local “Railway Club” in support of the local federal backbencher. China will feature, so it is said. $50 cash only at the door, apparently.

Darwin of course was where he once appeared sporting a shaving cut, which linked him to the real world. As did the pic of him wading through floodwaters in Qld, carrying a suitcase. Suggestions that the cut was make-up, and the suitcase contained balls of newspaper only have been hotly denied.

Rumours that Knuckles has the hot dog concession going outside have been heard…

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 9:55 am

Ergas’s word salad of a mess of an article is identical in form to the articles and papers by intellectuals in the 1920’s quickly reconfiguring themselves to explain why Life Unworthy of Life fit perfectly within the framework a liberal society.

Revolting weakness.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 9:55 am

$50 cash only at the door, apparently.

Cash, maaaaaaaate.

rosie
rosie
September 17, 2021 9:58 am

Ergas doesn’t make sense.
If you’re vaccinated you are protected as far as it is reasonably possible against the virus.
Children can’t be vaccinated, should they be sued if they pass on the virus?
People who are vaccinated can also pass on the virus.
You are right Roger, it’s unreasonable and in effect a specious argument that could applied to any disease that is communicable.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 10:00 am

negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

Selfish old man wants to turn all of society in a tyrannical mass retirement village so he doesn’t have to admit he’s old and needs to accept he has to cede the public and society and life as he lived it to the next generations.

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 17, 2021 10:10 am

He’s found a doc who will write him up as having had the vax.

I never thought of this angle before.

You gotta love humanity. It’s so fucking creative. ?

Tammany Hall their arses, JC!

It’s not the proofs, after all. It’s all about who proves the proofs… 😉

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 10:13 am

Ergas’ article is just a re-hash of Lambie’s threats dressed up in a ball gown and tiara.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 10:16 am

Glenn Greenwald
??@ggreenwald??

Remember that an FBI lawyer pled guilty to lying to the FISA court in order to obtain warrants to spy on former Trump campaign official Carter Page.

The real criminals weren’t people colluding with Russia but those who perpetrated the Russiagate fraud:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/ex-fbi-lawyer-gets-probation-falsifying-carter-page-surveillance-application-n1256179

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2021 10:16 am

TE:

The Railway Club’s tucker is shit. Therefore, it’s a potential one-night goldmine for local smallgoods entrepreneurs.
With a bit of luck I’ll be able to provide a slightly different product to what Rudd ordered.
Then he might find out that not everyone’s a RAAF stewardess.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 10:17 am

In this hell world, a HIV positive, hepatitis ridden fag drug addict has black letter law right to work in daycare or primary school as long as they’re ‘vaccinated’ against the flu 2.0.

The person who has lived a clean life, respected the law, paid taxes, is about to be banned from life without trial, and as far as the establishment and ruling class is concerned cast down to beneath the lowest heroin addict, because Henry Ergas is 70 now and doesn’t want to risk catching a cold at Coffee Club.

It’s that simple.

johanna
johanna
September 17, 2021 10:20 am

So, the English NHS vax passport is completely benign, eh?

What about this:

he app records a video and then sends it to iProov to compare the user’s face against government ID photos in order to prove they are indeed who they say they are. The smartphone app also records information such as date of birth, postcode, phone number, and either a photo of a passport or driving licence.

The National Health Service and iProov have claimed that the data collected is anonymised and put under strict privacy protocols, however, an NHS spokesman admitted to the paper that facial recognition and other data is shared with law enforcement agencies, with the caveat that a special panel reviewed such decisions.

Facial Recognition Vaccine Passports Being Developed by British Tech Firms https://t.co/EIeyAvjVPo

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) March 27, 2021

An expert in surveillance law warned that domestic and foreign spying agencies will likely try to obtain such data, saying: “If GCHQ acquired it and it was of use, the likely position is that they would share that with the [US] National Security Agency.”

It is the case that the United Kingdom and United States are bound together in an intelligence sharing alliance — alongside Canada, Australia, and New Zealand — where all intelligence is freely distributed between the partners without restriction, making the cross-border flow of these facial recognition videos basically inevitable once they reached the hands of the security services.

As we know, Qld and WA cops were using QR data to find people after we were promised that the data was secure and private. They only stopped because they got caught.

Never believe a word they say about the security and privacy of your data. It is always a lie.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 10:21 am

Make a mistake when you’re speaking with the FBI, end up in jail.
FBI falsify evidence when applying for a FISA warrant, effectively nothing happens.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2021 10:21 am

lol. Any port in a storm.

Even I wouldn’t take port on a picnic. Just have the driver go home via the club.

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 10:22 am

And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

Then why all the special carve outs for HIV/AIDS?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 10:22 am

And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

How about herpes Henry? Or flu, syphilis, HPV and HIV?

A number of lefty US states have decriminalized the infection of a partner with HIV, which is known to knock a decade off someone’s lifespan even now. And require them to take a cocktail of drugs for the rest of their lives.

I can’t recall Henry writing hysterical articles about herpes. It’s a mystery.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 10:23 am

Snap Diogenes!

johanna
johanna
September 17, 2021 10:23 am

Oh, and as for Henry Ergas, in my experience every time he strays outside his field into politics he comes up with the wrong answer.

This latest incoherent excuse for an argument gets an F from me.

Bruce in WA
September 17, 2021 10:25 am

This is Australia??? WTF is going on?

Cairns Airport police to get rifles amid security upgrade
Officers will be armed with MK18s at one of Queensland’s tourism airports in a beef up of security ahead of international travel returning.

Paywalled, but see the photo at the link.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2021 10:27 am

Joanna at 10:20 – Sneakers and Kerry Stokes successfully buried that one. And the fact Sneakers went to the election knowing about it.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 10:27 am

I assume Henry will never travel overseas again.

He might have drinkies next to a free range unvaxxed person on the Riviera.

rosie
rosie
September 17, 2021 10:29 am
H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2021 10:30 am

Not Ergas’s best work. Normally I find something of interest in his columns. It would be a tough gig to come up with something every week.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 17, 2021 10:30 am

Has gas revealed himself to be an eletist egghead twerp during the trump era. A nasty one too.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 10:32 am

Naturally in this new world order of zero infections from anyone to anyone, people with cold sores / herpes simplex will be sent to the outer colonies to live out their days.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
September 17, 2021 10:32 am

Tony Abbott has written a column in the Oz today that has a Greg Sheridan level of stupid.

What does he say? The IPA is boosting him remorselessly. Mainly becos people there have staffed for him.

rosie
rosie
September 17, 2021 10:32 am

I wonder if this protest might get bigger.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 10:33 am

He might have drinkies next to a free range unvaxxed person on the Riviera.

Now that has me thinking…he might sit on a park bench next to an unvaxxed person at home.

Or…he might pass by one of them in the supermarket aisle as they scuttle out to forage for food.

He would never know. He would be “at risk”.

If only there was some way of identifying them so they could be avoided….

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2021 10:35 am

Then why all the special carve outs for HIV/AIDS?

I have always said Covid is the most politicised disease since AIDS. The comparison by history will be interesting. Might take 30 or 40 years I suspect.

areff
areff
September 17, 2021 10:36 am

*ducks, as Melbournians raise hackle feathers for a fight*

Light the fuse anytime, Lizzie. There’s nothing left of the Garden State worth saving.

Miltonf
Miltonf
September 17, 2021 10:36 am

Uni of Wollongong must bug him a bit. Surely he is ANUs level.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 10:38 am

AUKUS alliance: PM has shown true leadership at a crucial timeTony Abbott

12:00AM September 17, 2021
77 Comments

In making the historic decision for nuclear-powered submarines, Scott Morrison has shown leadership of the very highest quality.

There were always three arguments used against nuclear subs, even though they were obviously the best choice for Australia: first, we lacked a nuclear sustainment industry; second, the Americans wouldn’t trust us with them; and third, Labor wouldn’t wear it.

For now, the Prime Minister is still ruling out nuclear power on land, to match nuclear power at sea; but this is almost certain to change, if only because civil nuclear engineers will be needed to maintain a naval capability. Obviously, the China challenge has dispelled any doubts the US might have had about sharing nuclear technology with us, as it has long done with the United Kingdom. And given that this is to be a treaty with Joe Biden’s America, not Trump’s, Labor has cover should Anthony Albanese judge that the national interest demands it.

It is the essence of leadership to discern the circumstances that have propelled a necessary change from being impossible to almost self-evident. All credit to Scott Morrison for seizing this moment.

When the Russians despatched an intimidatory naval task force to northern Australian waters at the time of the G20, I discovered that we only had two operational submarines and both were too slow and too far away to intercept it. Likewise, we only had the Orion surveillance aircraft to monitor a Chinese task force passing between us and Java.

It was always folly to take an existing French nuclear submarine and waste 15 years redesigning it and rebuilding it as an inferior sub to what was potentially available now. Again, it’s to the Prime Minister’s great credit that he’s been prepared to junk a decision that was wrong from the beginning and which has just become worse over time.

Whether it’s to be the British Astute class or the American Virginia class need not take the 18 months to decide that the PM suggested on Thursday. Under no circumstances should the navy be allowed to tinker with the design because that just means more delay. Whether they’re built here or initially abroad, the objective must be to get delivery of the first new subs within a decade.

Following Thursday’s decision, it could even be possible to lease a nuclear submarine and run it with a composite crew much sooner.

Given that China is well into what’s probably the biggest military build-up in history, time is not on our side. We must assume that what’s now the world’s biggest navy is more than a mere coastguard and that Beijing wants the capacity to back up the 14 demands it recently made of Australia with force if necessary.

It can’t be stressed too much that the problem here is the Beijing government, not the Chinese people. Chinese migration to this country testifies to the universal yearning for freedom and opportunity, and the flourishing of Chinese people in this country is an ongoing reproach to the totalitarians in Beijing.

Not only has the communist dictatorship suffocated the freedom of Hong Kong in breach of its one-country-two-systems treaty, put a million Uighurs into concentration camps, and implemented an Orwellian hi-tech-enabled surveillance system over its own people; it’s also militarised the South China Sea in breach of international law, ambushed Indian forces in the Himalayas, and is now threatening Taiwan, a democracy of 25 million people that’s never been part of communist China, has not effectively been ruled from Beijing since 1895, and is proof that there’s no totalitarian gene in the Chinese DNA.

Under the Taiwan Relations Act, the US is obliged to resist any attempt to coerce Taiwan, and under the ANZUS treaty we are obliged to “act to meet the common danger” in the event of an ­attack on US forces. The best way to ensure that the unthinkable remains unlikely is to be ready for the worst.

Notwithstanding Thursday ’s momentous decision, there is more to do. Measures that could be completed in months, not years, include onshoring three months of fuel and doubling and tripling recruitment into the reserves to start to create the military manpower that we will need, especially for the navy. As quickly as possible, we need more effective defensive and offensive cyber capacity plus anti-missile defences, at least for military bases.

A country’s fate decades hence can depend on the decisions that governments have made – or failed to make – now. Today’s decision will give Australia vastly more strength to resist aggression and vastly more sovereign capacity to stare down even a superpower if needs be. Surpassing even the Howard government’s intervention in East Timor – which was the first ever Australian-initiated-and-led military ­expedition – this sends a clear signal to those who wish us well, and to those who wish us ill, that we are a serious country and a force to be reckoned with.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 10:38 am

If only there was some way of identifying them so they could be avoided….

How about separate drinking bubblers for vaxxed and unvaxxed? And the unvaxxed can have a special compartment at the back of buses.

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 10:41 am

An operation that came very close to success, and largely failed because of the failure of the Americans to follow their orders?

Iirc Gen Gavin was following orders from the US chain of command by orienting his defense towards the Groesbeck Heights without objection from Browning.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 10:44 am

And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

Unless the vaccine is a sterilizing one (not a knacker shrinker, but one that provides absolute immunity preventing getting/passing it on) then that whole line of argument is invalid.

Eyrie
Eyrie
September 17, 2021 10:45 am

If a person is on column speed dial with the tiny australian media oligarchy, they’re literally on the payroll and will say what they’re allowed to say, which is what suits the narrative of the ruling class at any given moment.

That is why they are called Presstitutes.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 10:45 am

The app records a video and then sends it to iProov to compare the user’s face against government ID photos in order to prove they are indeed who they say they are.

The vaccine passports will necessarily have to authenticate the user in real time. They will use biometric (facial or fingerprint) recognition to prevent people passing their phones ‘passports’ (aka government licence to be in public) around to other people.

Apple and Android phones both already have biometric auth for apps built in them, the only thing, which they already built is the central id authentication service.

And re facial recognition, they have your photos too.

All of the country’s states and territories first agreed to sign up to the National Drivers Licence Facial Recognition Solution (NDLFRS) at the 2017 Council of Australian Governments meeting, which would allow law enforcement agencies to share the licence photos and information across borders with ease.

South Australia, Tasmania and Victoria have already undertaken with Queensland expected to soon upload its batch of licence images and data to the already 7 million-strong database before the end of the year.

They’ve been planning these ‘passports’ for a decade. Covid or no covid, this was coming.

Eyrie
Eyrie
September 17, 2021 10:47 am

Thanks Henry Ergas, for taking the time to demonstrate to the world at large that you are a fool unable to use simple logic. Saves time in never having to read anything written by you again.

Arky
September 17, 2021 10:48 am

The US giving the incoming Anthony Albanese government Virginia class subs could just be Biden’s way of sharing the technology and capabilities of the things with Xi.

cohenite
September 17, 2021 10:49 am

Two choices for the calishita recall election: the voters are complete fucking morons, or the demorats cheated: or both I guess:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/newsom-wins-conservative-orange-county-52-6-47-4-rigged-recall/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=the-gateway-pundit&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=daily

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 10:51 am

this sends a clear signal to those who wish us well, and to those who wish us ill, that we are a serious country and a force to be reckoned with.

Australia is not a serious country.
The submarines, regardless of any benefits, further entrenches Australia’s status with the US as a client state.
Similar to Colombia.

Rabz
September 17, 2021 10:53 am

negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

A sad fearful old man doing his darndest (and failing miserably) to justify an idiotic and illogical form of tyranny being visited on his fellow citizens.

Pathetic.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 10:53 am

Looks like the China bots are up early at the gruinid today.

Climate experts fear Aukus will dash hopes of China emissions deal
Timing of defence deal, ahead of Cop26 summit where China will be key player, dismays campaigners

The timing of the new defence deal between the US, UK and Australia has dismayed climate experts, who fear it could have a negative effect on hopes of a deal with China on greenhouse gas emissions ahead of vital UN climate talks.

The Aukus trilateral security partnership has been interpreted as seeking to counterbalance Chinese power in the Asia-Pacific region, and has been likened to a new cold war by China. A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson warned the three countries to “respect regional people’s aspiration and do more that is conducive to regional peace and stability and development – otherwise they will only end up hurting their own interests”.

China, the world’s biggest carbon emitter, will play a pivotal role at the Cop26 UN climate talks to be held in Glasgow in November. Unless it can bring down its emissions sharply in the next decade, the world stands little chance of limiting global heating to 1.5C, a key aspiration of the Paris agreement. John Kerry, the climate envoy to the US president, Joe Biden, and the UK’s president of the Cop26 talks, Alok Sharma, have both visited China in recent weeks.

Eyrie
Eyrie
September 17, 2021 10:54 am

Yep another shit issue of The Australian. Paywall bypass still holding. Thank christ I’m not paying for it.

Rabz
September 17, 2021 10:54 am

we are a serious country

Earth to whoever the imbecile was who wrote this – Australia is a global laughing stock, but I’m not surprised you haven’t noticed.

cohenite
September 17, 2021 10:55 am

Red Politics analyses the calishita recall results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oau-XAulknk

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 10:56 am

Earth to whoever the imbecile was who wrote this

Rabz, it was the one & only Tony Abbott.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 10:56 am

The language of vaccination has changed.

As a young mum, I never thought of having the children, or even myself, vaccinated as anything other than a precautionary measure. It never entered my head that it was a dutiful response to the “public good”, whatever that was. I never really thought about people who were unvaccinated, until it became a news item about babies contracting whooping cough.

Now, we have people rolling up their sleeves and extolled for doing “hard work” and “making a sacrifice”.

It reminds me of Mater’s bizarre Soviet and Nazi posters with strong, young, muscular types striding forward as one to crush the enemy. Naturally its antithesis is something entirely different – those recalcitrant unvaxxed. I wonder how they might be portrayed?

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 10:58 am

Iirc Gen Gavin was following orders from the US chain of command by orienting his defense towards the Groesbeck Heights without objection from Browning.

The original orders were that those bridges “were to be seized with thunderclap surprise.” What occurred on the Groesbeck Heights had no bearing on what happened on the bridges.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 11:01 am

calli

Couple of suggestions here.

one

Two

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:01 am

So true Calli.
Fascism happened just so quickly.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 11:04 am

Oh, Henry (not the American novelist).

It always gives me the willies when people too quickly (and it almost always is) presume to entrap their opponents in their own logic – it usually just shows up how little they understand their opponents.

When an atheists claim to be able to prove to a person of faith that their faith really demands they accept an atheistic principle, or a progressive explains to a conservative that conservatism actually dictates support for a progressive cause, and so on.

I will just leave aside for a moment Henry’s implicit acceptance of whatever the government has said about Covid and vaccines as being the only true information.

He seems to have made an error common among collectivists (I am not saying Henry is one) of thinking that since from the outside no person is more important then that is how we individually should treat ourselves. But everyone in fact must live as their own agent. My relationship to my self is not the same as it is to everyone else. To them I can look hungry, angry, in pain etc. But to me I am hungry, angry, in pain etc. There is a reason people will forgive in others what they would not forgive in themselves.

If a Libertarian believes that no one should impose troubles on other people that is not the same as saying everyone must accept whatever demands other might make of them because they claim to be troubled.

And what sort of a world would it be if we each of us subordinated our choices to the demands of others, when each other would also be required to subordinate their choices to the will of others. Ultimately no one would be able to make any choices. We have gone from a billion contesting individual wills to zero individual wills. Libertarians believe in the former, not the latter.

So who steps in to fill the void? Government, who theoretically embody the will of the people but who only do so when the people have their own wills, and even that influence is very much marginalised in the day to day workings. A democracy without a demos.

I don’t think that is what Libertarians believe in, Henry.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2021 11:05 am

Gotta love Teh Grauniad. The ALPBC has a way to go to catch them.

cohenite
September 17, 2021 11:06 am

AUKUS alliance: PM has shown true leadership at a crucial time Tony Abbott

Tone sniffing the glue.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:06 am

Everything is about data collection.
Everything.

twostix
twostix
September 17, 2021 11:07 am

If a police officer stops you on the street, he’ll ask to see your vaccine status, you’ll open the app, take a photo of yourself or scan your fingerprint (initially it’ll let you enter a pin to ease the migration), and that will authenticate you as you, then show your status. It’ll probably keep you authenticated for some minutes, have a caching system to handle low signal etc.

Version 1.0 won’t have this stuff, too intrusive, they’ll roll them out without authentication then let the media gin up an ‘outcry’ of people passing their phones around to each other, which the government will ‘crack down’ on by rolling out authentication.

That’s how this will work.

Once established, in five years, these apps will be everything, you’ll be using them all the time, eventually they’ll turn on location data.

The vision of the new ‘data driven’ utopian society is:
Population Surveillance (already here QR Codes, Google maps data, and eventually they’ll just turn on location data in the ‘passport’ app)
Real time behavioural compliance checks and social enforcement, aka social credit (already here in the ‘passport’)
Authentication and Trust (John Q Citizen is officially authenticated and endorsed as compliant by the NSW / QLD / Commonwealth Government – infrastructure and policy is already done, just have to turn it on).

What normal people call control, I.e banning you socially from X if you don’t comply with edict Y, they couch in language like ‘risk mitigation’ and ‘property rights’.

This class of people – bugmen – are the ultimate passive aggressive shits. They won’t stick a gun in your face like last century’s tyrants, they’ll pleasantly smile and tell you how relaxed and cool they are, while they create a Rube Goldberg like apparatus that sticks a gun in your face for them.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
Nelson_Kidd-Players
September 17, 2021 11:07 am

rugbyskier says:
September 17, 2021 at 8:46 am

The local radio station’s traffic updates have been stating which border crossings have police checkpoints this morning. Good heads up for those who want to sneak across the border.

In Victoristan, Dan seems to have made traffic information a government function. Traffic advice is littered with references to travel for permitted reasons and other government messages. I doubt we’ll hear where Plod is congregating.

Dot
Dot
September 17, 2021 11:07 am

Besides which, most of the time he’s 17 000 kms away and nobody cares.

Terrible. Let us have governors who can get recalled.

Republican features of government may curb the mob, but they also require accountability.

Such as recall elections & ostracism.

Rex Anger
Rex Anger
September 17, 2021 11:09 am

@ Top Ender-

I don’t know how much clout and influence you may still have among the hallowed halls of the Senior Service, but when the RAN’s Reactor School inevitably gets set up, can you quietly recommend this as its [un]official anthem?

(Ignore the visuals. Listen to the lyrics)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfl9TMelZE

And whatever you do, don’t tell them it was a former Soldier who put you up to it! 😉

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 11:12 am

Meanwhile, in cloud cuckoo land.
Eating more fish could save planet.

And if it were to happen there will be new headlines about the depletion of fish stocks.

There are no more frypans – we must leap from fire to fire.

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 11:13 am

The simple way out for them ALL to simply stop working. I think Darling Dan might then have second thoughts. Actually, this is what is happening around America, nurses here, police there. They all have heft if they stick together.

Remember when a General Strike would actually mean something?

Ellen of Tasmania
Ellen of Tasmania
September 17, 2021 11:16 am

I think most of you would know about John Adams? (This is from Telegram)
…………………………………..

“A DRAMATIC ESCALATION has occurred between the NSW Government & myself.

This morning I am in Sydney conducting some essential business.

In my absence, two officers of NSW Police came to my house this morning asking about my whereabouts & asking if I had information about planned protests this weekend!

My wife took their number & called me DEEPLY DISTRESSED about the visit which my 2 year old daughter didn’t appreciate.

I called the officers immediately. I was described on the phone as a “PERSON OF INTEREST.”

I told them that I have no plans leaving home this weekend & I have no information about planned protests (which is 100% truthful).

I also told them that visiting my house was a completely unnecessary escalation given that the STATE INTELLIGENCE UNIT has my phone number already.

I was assured that this was not POLICE INTIMIDATION, but pro-active community engagement? ?

Nevertheless in a similar occurrence to Monica Smit (from Victoria), I have now made the political enemies list of the NSW Government for actively resisting TOTALITARIANISM on social media.

I am being WATCHED & MONITORED.

No doubt the NSW Government is waiting for me to slip up before they POUNCE.”
These are indeed SCARY TIMES for all Australians who cherish freedom.
………………………………..

I’m going to forgive him the capitals because I understand how upset he would be. As if the cops wouldn’t know he wasn’t at home. So, it’s not police intimidation, hey, but “pro-active community engagement”.

Serfs up, Australia.

John H.
John H.
September 17, 2021 11:17 am
Zipster
Zipster
September 17, 2021 11:17 am

For now, the Prime Minister is still ruling out nuclear power on land, to match nuclear power at sea; but this is almost certain to change, if only because civil nuclear engineers will be needed to maintain a naval capability.

it’s a good foot in the door, next is nuclear power stations and then ballistic nuclear missiles. this is the only viable deterrent against chinese aggression.

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 11:17 am

Republican features of government may curb the mob, but they also require accountability.Such as recall elections & ostracism.

Mmm…how’d that work out in California?

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 11:19 am

The other thing about Henry is that he seems to have fallen for the inverted logic that the vaccine makes people susceptible to Covid, not protected from it.

Mind you in the case of these particular vaccines they do not prevent infection, but ameliorate symptoms. They are not protected from infection, so ?they are as much in danger from other vaccinated people as the unvaccinated.

Has he never been vaccinated before? Does he not recall the feeling of relief from a worry. When you travel overseas and get your shots you feel comfortable and protected from illnesses. You don’t travel to another country nervous that all the people who did not get your shot are going to kill you.

Why is this so hard all of a sudden?

A Suggestion
A Suggestion
September 17, 2021 11:20 am

I’m going to forgive him the capitals because I understand how upset he would be.

And who are you, to deign to FORGIVE some for using CAPITALS.
Before you remove the MOTE from your brothers eye, be sure to remove the BEAM from your own.

will
will
September 17, 2021 11:21 am

(vaccinations for COVID19)…a damned sight better for risk taking than getting Covid if you are over 50 or 60 unless you take good care of your immune system in other ways.

any actual evidence for this assertion?

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 11:21 am

Tony Abbott has written a column in the Oz today that has a Greg Sheridan level of stupid.

Are we reading the same article, feelthebern?

Mr Rabbit’s article on ditching Trumble’s frogboats and getting yank nuke subs is excellent (h/t Zulu for posting it here).

My only quibble is that Abbott credits Morrison, rather than Dutton, who was the actual instigator of the US deal.

Dot
Dot
September 17, 2021 11:23 am

Yes, but imagine California now with Newsom’s extended family entrenched as a royal family – in an official, permanent capacity.

It’s just terrible.

Political dynasties do go away eventually and more quickly.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 11:25 am

Thanks for the recommendation, North Shore Redneck.

I posted a question on Discord.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 17, 2021 11:26 am

Mr Turnbull, who is reserving his position until briefed, nonetheless reminded people of his autobiography in which he revealed the French subs were chosen because they could one day be converted back to nuclear.

Trumble won’t be getting a briefing on Dutton’s watch.
This is just his way of suggesting he is Still Very Important.
As Jupes says, if conversion to nuculear is on your mind, just buy nuculear to start with.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2021 11:26 am

(h/t Zulu for posting it here).

My pleasure, Tom.

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 11:28 am

Dover please ignore my report comment for moles links to the old posters. I meant to hit the thumbs up but my screen moved.

Please please please move the report comment to the right edge of the comment

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 11:29 am

Political dynasties do go away eventually and more quickly.

Yes, but the republican model gives governors and presidents real power, whereas constitutional monarchy prevents them from having real power whilst also vesting the head of state with only limited power. This is a system which has developed incrementally over c. 800+ years and should only be overthrown in the most dire of circumstances.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:31 am

Saying we need the US subs because the Frog subs are bad is a Ben Shapiro high school debating trick.
We never needed the French ones.
We don’t need the US ones.
& we definitely don’t need to become intertwined with the US defence ecosystem.

We’re just buying holiday homes for the consultants & intermediaries.

A Suggestion
A Suggestion
September 17, 2021 11:32 am

Yes, but the republican model gives governors and presidents real power, whereas constitutional monarchy prevents them from having real power whilst also vesting the head of state with only limited power. This is a system which has developed incrementally over c. 800+ years and should only be overthrown in the most dire of circumstances.

Devolving power to an unelected bureaucracy, that cannot be deposed or sanctioned, IS NOT PROGRESS!

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 11:32 am

Eyrie/Panzer:
The wiki page has multiple articles on nuclear warheads – some of them quite specialised.
Here.
Just for reference and light reading.
The Tomahawk had capability for nuclear payload, but was scrapped* for the Arms Limitations Talks.
*Scrapped in this case probably means the nuke was replaced by glitter and put into storage for the commissioning celebrations of CVN 169 “Hello Kitty”.

Delta A
Delta A
September 17, 2021 11:33 am

Mr Rabbit’s article on ditching Trumble’s frogboats and getting yank nuke subs is excellent

Just finished reading it and I agree, Tom.

Abbott could have been quoting knowledgeable Cats – Top Ender and Mater, for example- who have been making those points for ever. In addition, a tad of ego stroking for Morrison to ensure that

For now, the Prime Minister is still ruling out nuclear power on land

doesn’t attract too much attention. For now.

I can’t see why others are slamming the article.

Muddy
Muddy
September 17, 2021 11:35 am

Open-ended much?

8.3 An existing [Queensland Health] employee is required to receive the prescribed subsequent dose/s of a COVID-19 vaccination (i.e. booster), as may be approved by the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI), within any recommended timeframe following the second dose. Evidence of vaccination, confirming the employee has received prescribed subsequent dose/s of the vaccine, is to be provided …

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:35 am

During the Obama years, Australian tax payers had to pay Democrat leaning K-street firms fees to gain access to DoD officials….who Australia already had defence contracts in place with.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:39 am

Washington will fleece the Australian tax payer and hardly deliver on anything.
And in the miniscule chance that China does do anything, Washington will do nothing.

We are getting played for fools.
Again.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 11:40 am

Top Ender

Meanwhile the real business of the USA – being a nuclear global superpower – can proceed unnoticed.

One potential advantage of the Deep State?

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 11:42 am

The original orders were that those bridges “were to be seized with thunderclap surprise.”

But those were Monty’s orders, iirc it was Kershaw that said Gavin claimed his actual orders were to prioritise defense at the heights to head of a suspected counterattack, which was highly likely given the intelligence provided to him, and Browning raised no objection.

A case of ‘send two and sixpence we are going to the dance’ ?

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 11:42 am

Bruce of Newcastle:

La Palma has a bloody great fracture right up the guts of the island, and has been a concern for tsunami people for some time. If the left half of the island slides into the sea, as is possible, the modeling suggests the tsunami arriving at New York City will be 50m high. Maybe even bigger.

I remember this from about 40 years ago, and not heard of it again since then.
There are boulders weighing tons about 500 feet up in the hills/mountains that were the result of a slippage yonks ago.

Arky
September 17, 2021 11:42 am

feelthebernsays:
September 17, 2021 at 11:39 am
Washington will fleece the Australian tax payer and hardly deliver on anything.

..
Given that Morrison has been in cabinet all the way through the subs sage, I wouldn’t be one of those on this thread volunteering to suck the silly cock- womble’s dick just yet.
Why the fucketty- fuck didn’t they do something like this ten years ago when it might have counted for something?

P
P
September 17, 2021 11:43 am

Mr Rabbit’s article on ditching Trumble’s frogboats and getting yank nuke subs is excellent (h/t Zulu for posting it here).

Thanks Zulu. Thanks Tom for alerting us to this article.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
Nelson_Kidd-Players
September 17, 2021 11:44 am

If one posts a comment and self-reports it, does that function as a hotline to our new Doomlord.

Testing: 3, 2, 1…

Arky
September 17, 2021 11:44 am

As for Tony Abbott cheering on a decision he should of made himself years ago:
Piss off.

Nelson_Kidd-Players
Nelson_Kidd-Players
September 17, 2021 11:45 am

Test in process. Please standby for results…

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 11:45 am

Bern,
How do you propose to protect Australia’s sea lanes without subs ?

Roger
Roger
September 17, 2021 11:45 am

Devolving power to an unelected bureaucracy, that cannot be deposed or sanctioned, IS NOT PROGRESS!

Bureaucracy? That’s another issue. We’re talking heads of state.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:48 am

How do you propose to protect Australia’s sea lanes without subs ?

Ben Shapiro question.
We don’t.
We can’t.
And we wouldn’t do shit with 30 subs.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:50 am

FMD, you want to play up to the conservative crowd, all you have to do announce a tax payer funded boondoggle with some shiny new military toys.
They all start swooning.

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 11:52 am

Pete M:

Did folks notice that in the Full Court of the Federal Court, Ridd lost because hurt feelings, but that rabid anti-semite won because academic freedom means you are safe to post pictures of your colleagues wearing death to jews words? Almost identical wording but they claim to be able to see a difference – amazing expertise there.

And they wonder why we don’t trust government any more.
I bet the High Court would refuse to engage in the difference in the two cases.

Diogenes
Diogenes
September 17, 2021 11:52 am

We can’t

So we should disband the whole of the ADF, drop our pants and bend over grasping our ankles then?
Riiiiiggght.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:52 am

Conservative: I hate ScoMo.
ScoMo: Here’s some shiny subs.
Sane Person: How much do they cost, when will we see the first one delivered, what are the outs built into the contract?
ScoMo: Yes sir, shiny shiny subs.
Conservatives: I love ScoMo.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 11:54 am

Have to agree, bern.

Look here…ScoMo flies home on Fathers’ Day while rest of the fathers locked up. Approval tanks, conservatives flee to other parties.

Look there…shiny subs! Approval rises, conservatives pause and backtrack.

Not buying it. Not for a moment.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2021 11:54 am

Thanks for the Star Trek – Engineers Hymn, Rex.

My last suggestion to a couple of RAN people was to paint a ship pink to match the trending idiocies – did not go down well.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2021 11:54 am

apparently the AMA thinks the loosening of restrictions in Victoria is reckless, article at Forbes

People should ask themselves if they would like to have a doctor follow them around for a week telling them what they can and cannot do.

“You don’t need that much butter on your toast. Bacon is bad for you. A second cup of coffee puts stress on your heart. Don’t give your kid that cereal – too much sugar. Drink low fat milk. You need to sit more upright in your chair. Lather up with sunscreen before going outside. Wash off the sunscreen, some of the chemicals have been associated with cancer…*hours pass*…You should have protein and salad for dinner, not lasagna. Wine is bad for you. You should wear gloves when you wash up. You shouldn’t use that soap in the shower as it removes oils. You should not have a long hot bath because it prevents the body’s thermoregulation from working. Did you rinse those sheets enough? That light is not strong enough to read. Close the book now so you get enough sleep.

“OK, I am going downstairs to watch your TV with some chips and a beer. But if you get up during the night I will be right there.”

That is why we don’t just let the medical profession to dictate our lives.

Besides, after them we would have Bank Managers following us, environmentalists, child welfare professionals, vets (if you have pets), professional ethicists, nutritionists etc.

I was going to mention police, but they are following us already.

Thing is that life would have a precision so fine that it gleamed like a razorblade which has been sharpened in five dimensions – and unbearably dull.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:54 am

So we should disband the whole of the ADF, drop our pants and bend over grasping our ankles then?

I give you Ben Shapiro.

Arky
September 17, 2021 11:57 am

feelthebernsays:
September 17, 2021 at 11:52 am
Conservative: I hate ScoMo.
ScoMo: Here’s some shiny subs.

..
Libertarian: It’s all about your personal freedom.
Progressives: Have some bum sex.
Libertarian: Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah man.
Progressives: Now it’s compulsory.
Libertarian: [Shrugs shoulders].

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 11:58 am

From Ergas

And it is surely clear that negligently infecting another person with a potentially serious disease breaches their right to live safely and securely, undermining a fundamental freedom that govern­ments have a duty to protect.

HIV Negative passports now? The screams will be audible on Pluto (not the cartoon dog).

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2021 11:58 am

We never needed the French ones.
We don’t need the US ones.

So whose subs will we buy then, Bern? The only alternatives to the frogshit are the Roooshuns, the Chinks or the Yanks – who are streets ahead of the competition, even though the Biden regime thinks the US Joint Chiefs now work for the Chinks.

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 11:59 am

Pedro the Loafer:

The old boy in Chinchilla pinged for his pocketknife put up a “guilty” plea to that bloody ridiculous charge.

So anyone with a Leatherman in a pouch on his belt is now a criminal?

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 11:59 am

For some reason arky equates libertarians with compulsory bum-sex.
At least it only takes one post these days, not the twenty it took in the past.

FlyingPigs
FlyingPigs
September 17, 2021 11:59 am

twostix says:
September 17, 2021 at 11:07 am

cross posted at https://freedomaustralia.freeforums.net/thread/1452/state-surveillance

Arky
September 17, 2021 12:01 pm

feelthebernsays:
September 17, 2021 at 11:59 am
For some reason arky equates libertarians with compulsory bum-sex.

..
Both are equally painful.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Australia needs to have exactly zero subs.

calli
calli
September 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Looks like it, Winston.

Never thought I’d be up before the beak over this. Best not to go to Chinchilla.

I wonder if secateurs are okay?

struth
struth
September 17, 2021 12:04 pm

We have now come to the point where the arguing is over.
Those that are brainwashed are gone from us and that’s a shame.
We are left with a greater number of people not brainwashed after all this time and effort put into it by the MSM and the pollies, than brainwashed, as people are now being forced to take a jab they would never contemplate taking…under severe duress.
We see on these pages the brainwashed attempting to justify it all (and failing miserably….and shamefully)
Even Lizzie is amongst them which saddens me.
An early fit of gullible weakness by many is still attempting to be justified, turning logic inside out and making claims of fact for which no fact can be proven.
So sad.
Now where are the faults in this example?

I wached half of it and had then had enough of his self-promotion. He is a small-scale operator, who is paralleling known facts with his own dubious interpretations (perhaps his line of business encourages that, lol), ie. the genuine aged care home Covid wave did happen in Britain, we saw exactly the same thing in Victoria with Dan’s 800 dead aged, and later, when a vaxx is available he parallels taking the vaxx with the rise in deaths that were simply the result of the second wave hitting. Of course more people were getting vaxxed then. We see the same here. Yes, there has not been a massive increase in the overall death rates because Covid is not particularly lethal to any but the aged, and influenza deaths are down possibly due to conflation with Covid, also due to more ‘flu vaxxes being given and Covid measures also diminishing the transfer of ‘flu.

Don’t like the vaxx, don’t have the vaxx. BitChute is trying hard to whip up unwarranted fervour against them. There is no evidence of a major conspiracy to kill off the population. That is Bird stuff. Vaxxes do kill a few, and always have, and there are always side effects. These are better than some in terms of death rate, better than the Yellow Fever vaxx for instance, and a damned sight better for risk taking than getting Covid if you are over 50 or 60 unless you take good care of your immune system in other ways. Even then, the risk is on you, and neither Hairy nor I are prepared to divide our friends nor the general population on the basis of Vaxx status. We are all at some risk when it comes down to it. Let’s party and enjoy our freedom to decide!!

Firstly an unprovable assumption made from another hemisphere.
Stating things does not make them facts.
The covid wave did not hit the aged care facilities in Britain as the overall death toll did not rise, while the perpetrators of this act of war on the west told you quite specifically the flu had disappeared.
So you have precisely no proof other than your wish to believe propaganda regarding this issue.
The same with the covid deaths in Victoria.
You have no proof of any covid deaths then and to be honest you have no proof of covid deaths anywhere.
Except if you WANT to believe the propaganda so you can kid yourself this is about a virus.
Which many do.
The reality is worse.
Facts matter, and so you look at what you actually know.
A fact like they started building concentration camps as soon as they closed the place down last year.
If they didn’t know this would still be a pandemic two years later, why start building them back then?
These sorts of things are what you should be asking yourself.
No one in Australia can prove covid 19 exists.
Facts.
I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but I’d like some proof before I send people to concentration camps and put yellow stars on the unjabbed.
The jabs don’t work.
There is a fact we now know.
Of course they were never meant to.
However they’ve killed and maimed hundreds of thousands and the evil bastards are injecting children …….no one slightly concerned that might be illogical and down right evil?
Remember these are not vaccines.
Nothing is logical.
Saying ridiculous things like if you don’t want to get vaxxed, don’t get vaxxed is so insulting in this situation it must be called out.
That’s purely denying the tyranny in all this, which many said was what would happen if enough people submitted to this tyranny.

Lizzie likes to think she’s a bit of an expert on Covid and it’s symptoms but she’s been reading stuff from corrupted sources and CHOOSES top believe that which supports the actions she has taken.

No one can prove that Dan killed 800 people.
If you are a right winhger and an idiot, you might think blaming him for those deaths is good politics.
It’s the worst politics.
You and I both do not know what those people died from.
And that’s just a fact.
I know I believe no one ,,,,especially the MSM or anyone who wants me to believe the death of a 90 year old is newsworthy….nationally.

What we have , unfortunately, is a generation of trusters, who , coming from a high trust Christian ethical society, now find themselves in a godless , evil, socialist tyranny, but just can’t believe that everything they are being fed is bullshit.

Look at things that you know are facts, from what you can actually see.
Those that silence free speech are the ones you get your information from.
Those that immediately started building concentration camps last year while citing two weeks to flatten the curve.
But whatever you do, jab takers, please stop and ask yourself whether continuing to flap your gums in an attempt to validate your actions here, is the right thing to do.
What facts do you really have?

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 12:05 pm
Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 12:05 pm

Diogenes

Iirc Gen Gavin was following orders from the US chain of command by orienting his defense towards the Groesbeck Heights without objection from Browning.

Browning’s chief qualifications for his job seem to have been that he was a Guardsman, and married to Daphne du Maurier. Market Garden seems to have been his first “action” during WW II.

Winston Smith
September 17, 2021 12:07 pm

‘Dillo!:

She didn’t sell a T-Shirt because it was a crap design. No one liked it (except for you). She probably realises this and moved onto better things. Pottery beer mugs with tits or something.

Have you a link for the pottery beer mugs with tits?

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2021 12:10 pm

Australia needs to have exactly zero subs.

Might work.

A range of land-based silos with nuclear-tipped ICBMs in them could be the alternative deterrent. Hmmm.

Didn’t the Brits and the Frogs and the Yanks have those, and then worked out they could be easily targeted, so put their ICBMs on subs along with some B-52s and so on?

We could do that. Wasn’t that why we bought the F1-11 though? There IS one in the Darwin Aviation Museum. But wouldn’t that mean submarines?

I KNOW! Anyone who invades us would get the scorched earth policy. We could call it the Albert Speer Defence System.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 17, 2021 12:13 pm

Now, I know many here have an 18c blind spot when it comes to Abbott, but he is all over the sub issue, and the most expedient way to get them into service:-

Under no circumstances should the navy be allowed to tinker with the design because that just means more delay. Whether they’re built here or initially abroad, the objective must be to get delivery of the first new subs within a decade.

Following Thursday’s decision, it could even be possible to lease a nuclear submarine and run it with a composite crew much sooner.

Allowing RAN engineers in search of something to engineer would be a yuuuge mistake.
Defence is littered with tales of superficial changes to design with no real functional benefit all in the name of “Strayan conditions” at the cost of guzzillions.

cohenite
September 17, 2021 12:15 pm
Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2021 12:16 pm

A range of land-based silos with nuclear-tipped ICBMs in them could be the alternative deterrent. Hmmm.

That, or a rifle behind every blade of grass. Works for the Swiss.

Woolfe
Woolfe
September 17, 2021 12:21 pm

We are not allowed rifles Bruce.

feelthebern
feelthebern
September 17, 2021 12:22 pm

Take out forced vaccines.
Replace with nuclear subs.
Use same sentence.

The only way we can protect Australia is with an opaque contract with US defence contractors.
Anyone who is critical of an opaque contract with US defence contractors is an crackpot anti-submariner.
If you don’t take the opaque contract with US defence contractors, you have to take opaque contract with French defence contractors.

I think ScoMo would be surprised just how readily conservatives swallowed this one.
Shitty marketing guy : if I knew they were gagging for it so much, I would have done it sooner.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2021 12:22 pm

Top Endersays:
September 17, 2021 at 11:54 am
Thanks for the Star Trek – Engineers Hymn, Rex.

My last suggestion to a couple of RAN people was to paint a ship pink to match the trending idiocies – did not go down well.

Been done already. See Cary Grant and Tony Curtis in Operation Petticoat.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
September 17, 2021 12:23 pm

Woolfesays:
September 17, 2021 at 12:05 pm
Unionised Victorian Construction workers have lunch and smoko in the street as Chairman Dan forbids them from gathering inside.

No sign of Black Shirts, tear gas, or rubber bullets

If only those pesky dead sea pedestrians getting “policed” had announced they were on smoko instead of a religious celebration.

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