Meme of the Day #18


h/t: Evelyn Rae

95 responses to “Meme of the Day #18”

  1. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    I would expect that in the normal course of events, the country that has NOT invaded its neighbour, would get the benefit of the doubt over the one that HAS.

    I also suspect that the majority giving Putin a free pass , are also those who are most vocally indignant about the “WMDs in Iraq” justification for Gulf-War2…… mostly in hindsight.

    Let us return to the well established criteria for Just War. One of which is that war is only justified if it is clearly and obviously engaged in to prevent something worse. Was the Ukraine about to invade Russia? Not likely.
    Was NATO about to invade Russia? You have to be joking.

    American political meddling in Ukraine – to the extent that it exists – is a matter for the Ukrainian people. Putin is no liberator.

  2. Miss Anthropist Avatar
    Miss Anthropist

    Mindless drones. Hammer, nail, head.

  3. Bruce of Newcastle Avatar
    Bruce of Newcastle

    On the one hand yes clearly there’s a horde of NPCs supporting Ukraine.

    On the other hand Ukraine is a smallish country that has been invaded by a large country, and the large country breached at least one treaty in order to do so. So count me in the third category even though I’ve never used a QR code in my life.

    It is though a problem of backing the least stinky shirt, and both sides’ shirts are pretty stinky.

  4. calli Avatar
    calli

    I’m not “backing” either of the buggers.

    I’m sick and tired of media maggots telling me what to think.

    And I am horrified that our stupid government has bought into any of it.

  5. Chris Avatar
    Chris

    I’m sick and tired of media maggots telling me what to think.

    Calli wins the internet for the last 25 years.

  6. JC Avatar

    Which journalists are telling you what to think, Calli?

  7. calli Avatar
    calli

    How long is a road?

  8. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “callisays:
    February 28, 2022 at 5:16 pm
    I’m not “backing” either of the buggers.

    I’m sick and tired of media maggots telling me what to think.

    And I am horrified that our stupid government has bought into any of it.”

    Well said Calli. I am furious.

    As for our current clown of a PM, he thinks he can win an election by waving a stick around. He’s a joke.

    I remember Afghanistan, I remember Iraq, I remember Libya.

    I REMEMBER THE LIES, LIES, LIES….and who remembers the non-existent “weapons of mass destruction”?

    I remember how the Obama administration sent money to Iran…and turned its back on the sole democracy in the middle east. And we have an administration under Joe the Sniffer who’s sending money to Iran again….coz…you know…the Iran deal is back on.

    Iran will shortly have nukes.

    The west, particularly the US, no longer has any moral authority……particularly how it’s treated its own citizens over the last two years.

  9. JC Avatar

    calli says:
    February 28, 2022 at 5:29 pm

    How long is a road?

    Tell us the name of the road and I can pretty much tell you then length. What journalists are telling you what to think?

    You maybe confusing the reporting of the blatant invasion with your bias in support of the Kremlin pig. Is that it?

  10. calli Avatar
    calli

    You maybe confusing the reporting of the blatant invasion with your bias in support of the Kremlin pig. Is that it?

    I don’t support Putin.

    Where did you get that idea?

  11. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    JC – there is zero analysis of the Russia/Ukraine situation in the (MS) media.

    Surely even you can see that

  12. Katzenjammer Avatar
    Katzenjammer

    The three memes
    Black Lives Splatter
    Hide ya face
    Go fly a flag

  13. Drax Avatar
    Drax

    And I am horrified that our stupid government has bought into any of it.

    There are people in Australia who have fled from countries which have been occupied by or threatened by Russia and there’s a federal election coming on. What else do you expect? ScoMo will do the least he can get away with. The best coverage of the Ukraine situation I have seen, with a variety of commentary is by the BBC. Not that I’m a lover of that organisation.

  14. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    For all we criticise the Left for their GroupThink, GroupIdentity and GroupHate, we need to watch ourselves…
    Need we practice guilt-by-association?

    It is the people of Ukraine who are suffering, many of them innocent…. not some amorphous entity. Their government may or may not be corrupt – I think many of ours certainly are and Russia’s more than most, but two wrongs do not make a right.

    Passivity is not a virtue.

  15. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    It seems to me that much of the debate over Ukraine is like our problem with Police.

    Our Police Forces have shown themselves to be corrupt and criminally violent. Does that mean that we side with criminals against the Police?

    Or do we accept the responsibility to do whatever it takes to reform our Police and Government, even if it is likely to take generations?

  16. Louis Litt Avatar
    Louis Litt

    Side with the Ukraine but Obama, Merkel, Trudeau, Macro, Adhern are sick. What Merkel has done to Europe’s states is no so much different. Death by axphixiation.

  17. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    On the other hand Ukraine is a smallish country

    It’s the size of France, has 45 million people.
    It’s a large-ish Country.

    that has been invaded by a large country,

    Population density of Russia=9/ sq. k.
    Population density of Ukraine=75/sq. k.

  18. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    It seems to me that much of the debate over Ukraine is like our problem with Police.

    Only if you’re smoking Banana peel.

  19. Judge Dredd Avatar
    Judge Dredd

    For all we criticise the Left for their GroupThink, GroupIdentity and GroupHate, we need to watch ourselves…

    PeterW, it is the left that are supporting Ukraine. Yes, let’s criticise them again for their GroupThink in blindly supporting what all the celebrities, MSM, politicians and elite and telling them to support.
    This is another spell, just like Climate Change and Covid, it is obvious to those that want to seek the truth.
    Russia did not attack Ukraine unprovoked:
    – continued and consistent bombing of the Donbass.
    – agreement to expand NATO into Ukraine (a la Cuban Missile Crisis).
    – demonization of Russian people living in Ukraine.

    Just think back to the puppet state (led by a Jewish Comedian no less) that was put in place after the trumped up 2014 coup.

    You cannot play by the rules of gentlemen when the other side is led by the devil.

    I can only hope that the good people of Ukraine are protected, however since their government is handing out weapons to civilians like candy it is pretty clear that Zelensky and his supporters want a bloodbath of their own civilians.

  20. Living the dream Avatar
    Living the dream

    Virtually no one on this thread sees any fault in Putin’s attack on Ukraine. None of you deserves the liberty you so claim to crave (for yourselves). Ukrainians are dying for theirs.

  21. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    Correct.
    Russia has kept it’s battle hardened troops in reserve.
    Zelenskiy emptied the prisons before he fled and handed out automatic weapons, so the situation in the cities now resembles the BLM riots of 2020 in the US.
    The only difference?
    Putin ain’t Trump.

  22. duncanm Avatar
    duncanm

    Living the dreamsays:
    February 28, 2022 at 8:01 pm
    Virtually no one on this thread sees any fault in Putin’s attack on Ukraine.

    Hardly.

    But I like to think I’m cluey enough to know what I don’t know and the MSM line of this being a completely unprovoked aggression by Putin is horse hockey.

    It’s not a one-sided argument, either way.

  23. Twostix Avatar
    Twostix

    None of you deserves the liberty you so claim to crave (for yourselves). Ukrainians are dying for theirs.

    A quarter of the people trapped in the fake country of Ukraine are Russians and have been fighting ( mostly dying) for their liberty for eight years now.

    You didn’t give a shit about them.

  24. Twostix Avatar
    Twostix

    If China backed a coup and installed a puppet government in NZ and started building up a vast military presence there for the explicit purpose of encircling Australia, apparently some bozos would be all ‘Australia has no business getting involved in that’.

    Painful stuff.

  25. Bluey Avatar
    Bluey

    Living the dreamsays:
    February 28, 2022 at 8:01 pm
    Virtually no one on this thread sees any fault in Putin’s attack on Ukraine. None of you deserves the liberty you so claim to crave (for yourselves). Ukrainians are dying for theirs.

    I don’t recall having seen you post anything other than Russia bad and telling people they support Putin for disagreeing.

  26. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    Dick Ed

    Only if you’re smoking Banana peel.

    Are you really old enough to remember Mellow Yellow?

  27. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    .”You didn’t give a shit about them.”

    Of course not, all depends on the narrative.

    Living the dream doesn’t give a rat’s arse about freedom.

  28. rickw Avatar
    rickw

    Why are police offers behaving so disgracefully? They enjoy it! The benefit of recruiting the right sort on Mong to wear your jackboots:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDk9UbAIQAA

  29. rickw Avatar
    rickw

    If China backed a coup and installed a puppet government in NZ and started building up a vast military presence there for the explicit purpose of encircling Australia

    In PNG’s future, fortunately for Australia they’re quite ungovernable.

  30. rickw Avatar
    rickw

    Virtually no one on this thread sees any fault in Putin’s attack on Ukraine

    I characterised the conflict as baddies versus idiots.

  31. Dot Avatar

    A quarter of the people trapped in the fake country of Ukraine

    What!?

    The WHOLE country is fake? You really are a stupid motherfucker aren’t you?

    Keep on sucking Putin’s cock if it makes you happy, and fantasising about how EEEVILL! libertarians want to “destroy nations!

    You hysterical little bitch.

  32. DrBeauGan Avatar
    DrBeauGan

    Passivity is not a virtue.

    Not giving a fying fluck about the lies and propaganda pumped out by both sides at least keeps one sane.

    I’m with calli, only moreso.

  33. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    Before you talk about sanity, ask yourself whether the same attitude that has brought down most civilsations, is going to preserve this one. Passive civilisations crumble before active barbarians.

    Whining about the press lying is just an excuse. You have the same principles and understanding of human nature that built the best societies ever seen. You have better access to more sources of information than any previous generation, and you sit there whining?

    The leftist MO has been to try to destroy our trust in our ability to make a difference. You are waving the white flag.

  34. Peter Avatar
    Peter

    If China backed a coup and installed a puppet government in NZ and started building up a vast military presence there for the explicit purpose of encircling Australia,

    Surely you aren’t pretending that Russia is “encircled”. The vast majority of NATO can’t be bothered spending enough money to defend themselves, let alone be a threat to Russia mitarily. Economically, they have been flat out financing the Russian military by buying energy that is too “dirty” for them to produce themselves.

    Biden’s America has gone down the same track.

    The idea that Russia is seriously feeling threatened is laughable. If they did feel threatened, the Russian army would be bunkered down in defensive positions along the Polish Border.

  35. another ian Avatar
    another ian

    “Get Your Program! Can’t Tell The Globalist Players Without A Program!”

    Chiefio’s form guide to players in “The Great Reset” that should be on your “vote no” list

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2022/02/27/get-your-program-cant-tell-the-globalist-players-without-a-program/

    IMO this complements

    “Mark Dolan: Those who run our society need to wake up, not woke up”

    https://www.gbnews.uk/gb-views/mark-dolan-those-who-run-our-society-need-to-wake-up-not-woke-up/235969

    Remember – “If you don’t trust the government you are no longer a conspiracy theorist – you are a history buff”

  36. Katzenjammer Avatar
    Katzenjammer

    Long history. Long culture. Deep subtle reaches of identity.

    England, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand we are one people – we know that and we can still recognise it.

    The central core of western Europe – France, Germany, Netherlands were one people of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne – now the core drivers of the autocratic imperialist EU.

    Eastern Europe – Belarus, Ukraine, Russia were one people of the Slavic Byzantine Orthodox Church under Vladimir the Great, the Grand Prince of Kievan Rus only a milennia ago, with later wrangling under Bohdan Khmelnytsky in the mid 1600s. This isn’t only a post cold war conflict over red lines about Nato.

    In this age where the left lauds identity categorisation, they don’t understand their concepts of identity are superficial.

  37. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    Why are police offers behaving so disgracefully?

    because they’ve been given explicit permission to do so.

    same as Ukraine.

    Russia’s had a fucking gutful of their bullshit

  38. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    Whining about the press lying is just an excuse. You have the same principles and understanding of human nature that built the best societies ever seen. You have better access to more sources of information than any previous generation, and you sit there whining?

    I find this particularly silly

    … of course yr gonna bitch and moan while I shoot at you

  39. dover0beach Avatar

    Surely you aren’t pretending that Russia is “encircled”. The vast majority of NATO can’t be bothered spending enough money to defend themselves, let alone be a threat to Russia mitarily. Economically, they have been flat out financing the Russian military by buying energy that is too “dirty” for them to produce themselves.

    That doesn’t make any sense. On the one hand, we are told that these states are falling over themselves to get into NATOs protective umbrella because of the terrible Russians. On the other hand we are told that NATO represents no threat to Russia because they can’t even defend themselves. Dear oh dear.

  40. shatterzzz Avatar
    shatterzzz

    I’m still wondering why we can be bombarded daily, by thousands of selfies/tik toks/twitter videos on any and all subjects yet other than lotza blacks weeping on railway stations Ukraine seems to be out of the tried & trusty phone pix loop .. it’s a mystery, a mystery I tellz ya!

  41. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    That doesn’t make any sense. On the one hand, we are told that these states are falling over themselves to get into NATOs protective umbrella because of the terrible Russians. On the other hand we are told that NATO represents no threat to Russia because they can’t even defend themselves. Dear oh dear.

    Don’t pretend that there is no difference between offence and defence. No difference between aggression and self-defence.

    NATO is, and always has been, a defensive alliance against aggressors. At the moment, it is not even a particularly good deterrent, but it is better than being a small country facing a large, aggressive one with no backup whatsoever, as we are seeing right now.

    Have you forgotten that the the onus is on the attacker/invader to prove that they are responding to a clear, obvious and lethal threat? Your response reminds me of nothing so much as an attempt to claim that there is no moral difference between a rapist and his victim, because the victim somehow “asked for it”.

    Those who are claiming that “The West” has no moral standing are showining us exactly WHY that is the case…. they have forgotten the basic principles of justice and the responsibility to stand by them.

  42. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    I find this particularly silly

    … of course yr gonna bitch and moan while I shoot at you

    The relevance is not exactly clear.
    My comment was in regard to people bitching and doing nothing, when they have obvious alternatives.

    As example, if you were shooting at me, I would be shooting back…..and you wouldn’t like that.

  43. Living the dream Avatar
    Living the dream

    Cassie “I choose Putin” knows who cares about freedom. Choke on it, sweetie.

  44. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “In this age where the left lauds identity categorisation, they don’t understand their concepts of identity are superficial.”

    The left have no knowledge of history.

  45. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “Living the dreamsays:
    March 1, 2022 at 7:30 am
    Cassie “I choose Putin” knows who cares about freedom. Choke on it, sweetie.”

    Oh look who’s here…..up early. Bobby the Bore (your use of the word “sweetie” confirms it). You’re so predictable. It’s cretins like you who are destroying the west.

  46. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “As example, if you were shooting at me, I would be shooting back…..and you wouldn’t like that.”

    The left don’t like it when Israel shoots back. Their outrage is always selective….just depends on the narrative.

  47. Tintarella di Luna Avatar
    Tintarella di Luna

    Living the dream‘s dream seems to be a nightmare – go back to sleep for a re-set.

  48. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    So next time Hamas and Hezbollah lob rockets into Israel, “Living the dream” will support an appropriate response from Israel.

    Surely yes……what was that about choking?

  49. Judge Dredd Avatar
    Judge Dredd

    If you want to know the truth on why Russia are actually the good guys and the Zelensky puppet government and the rest of the western elite are the bad guys you need to understand recent history.
    Read this if you’re interested in learning more;
    https://barnesreview.org/the-donbass-rebellion-and-the-political-idea-of-novorossiya/

  50. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    Dredd….

    Citing a holocaust-denial website is not a good way to make your case.

  51. Kneel Avatar
    Kneel

    Putin and Russia have been complaining for 8 years about ethnic Russians being treated badly by Ukrainians (“Russian Lives Matter”, perhaps?)
    Also about the US Left funded revolution that ousted a democratically elected (pro-Russian) leader. (“We must defend Democracy!”)
    The US in particular (aided by the EU) refused to say Ukraine would not be entering NATO (Cuban missile crisis anyone?).
    Same actors pumped up the Ukrainians saying “We will defend you”, but when push comes to shove, they sit on the sidelines and use ineffective “sanctions” against Russia, but not in the energy sector where it could do the most damage to Russia – the EU is dependent on Russia for about half its gas, and the US is buying about half a million barrels of oil a day from Russia, both could have been “bypassed” or “worked around” if the US had kept its energy independence instead of going full-moron green and outsourcing their “emissions” and manufacturing overseas.

    Clinton/Obama both sold US strategic uranium reserve to a Russian company, and created a tech transfer company to gave Russia hypersonic missile tech.
    Biden is neck deep in Ukrainian corruption, and admitted to a quid pro quo on tape.
    They all increased their own wealth massively with such bribery and corruption, yet Trump – who lost money while president, and until COVID hit gave the US the best economy it has had for decades as well as energy independence and record low illegal immigration – is the one impeached.

    The MSM propaganda/lies are astounding re Ukraine – eg, Snake Island “F*ck you Russian warship” followed by grisly death defending to the last looks like a lie, and they surrendered.
    Russian media (RT) attacked and hidden from westerners on their “normal” channels – OK, so maybe they are Russian propaganda, but you really think the west is any better? If you can’t see both sides, you will be biased in your assessment, if you don’t know what the other side thinks and wants how can it end in any other way than war?
    Why does our “elite” want war with Russia? A distraction from our own problems?
    What happened to cultural/racial sensitivity and listening to the “other side” to get some sort of compromise?
    The whole thing stinks to high heaven and anyone who dares to look will find it so. If you want to swallow the propaganda that one democracy is bad (Russia) while the other (US) is good, or that one is corrupt while the other is squeaky clean you are a “useful idiot” and a pawn in the games that enrich the elite to the detriment of all others – preferably overseas (Ukraine) rather than domestically, but needs must, eh?

  52. johanna Avatar
    johanna

    Yep, the ‘plucky little Ukraine’ vs ‘Big Bad Wussia’ narrative being pushed as the latest cover for things that really matter is nauseating. COVID is waning, so a new scare story is needed to flood the MSM with bullshit.

    Like calli and many others, I am in a blizzard of propaganda from both sides and don’t believe any of it. A lot of it has already been proved to be straightout lying, on both sides.

    For two years now discussion and reporting on issues that are important has been suspended because the lazy stenographers could use government press releases and media events, interspersed with ‘human interest ‘ stories, as a substitute for doing their jobs.

    Now, they have been saved by the bell once again. They are experts on a place they would not have been able to find on a marked map a year ago.

    CNN and others have openly admitted that they are using social media for source material, because they have nothing else to go on.

    What a farce.

  53. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    PeterW try to get grip.
    your whacky analogies fail
    they’re all backwards.

    doubtless, you claim to represent Ukraine and truth and light,
    nonetheless it is still Russia shooting at you
    and you’re trying shoot back and you’re shit at it
    and you’re whining the whole time
    can’t work out why?
    how coy

    your self righteous moral outrage is little more that a post hoc confection
    now fuck off back over the river and shut the fuck up

  54. Dot Avatar

    you claim to represent Ukraine and truth and light

    I don’t think anyone is claiming that at all.

  55. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    don’t think anyone is claiming that at all

    then what are all the analogies for ?

    if PeterW wants to make a point they should stop talking in riddles

  56. Judge Dredd Avatar
    Judge Dredd

    I find it interesting that many Ukraine elite sympathetics and Western elite sympathetics (but I repeat myself) have suddenly appeared in this blog-site than COVID sympathetics during the height of COVID hysteria.
    Yet it is easier to find the truth on the Ukraine situation than on COVID.
    Is this an indication of the level of desperation on the part of the globohomo elites in activating all bots/shills/sympathetics to the cause of upholding the narrative?
    In any case it does not matter as the truth needs merely to wait to see the light of day, and the more shrieks of “Putin BAD MAN!” just adds more weight to actual truth.

  57. dover0beach Avatar

    Don’t pretend that there is no difference between offence and defence. No difference between aggression and self-defence.

    NATO is a military alliance. If you have countries seeking to join that are next to you or your key strategic interests that is provocative.

    NATO is, and always has been, a defensive alliance against aggressors. At the moment, it is not even a particularly good deterrent, but it is better than being a small country facing a large, aggressive one with no backup whatsoever, as we are seeing right now.

    Russia was no threat to NATO members since the 1990s. The US was the global hegemon. I don’t even recall a single problem between Russia and Ukraine before 2014.

    Have you forgotten that the the onus is on the attacker/invader to prove that they are responding to a clear, obvious and lethal threat? Your response reminds me of nothing so much as an attempt to claim that there is no moral difference between a rapist and his victim, because the victim somehow “asked for it”.

    Does a US-sponsored coup in 2014 present such a threat? Maybe, maybe not; but it’s hardly innocent. Talking about rapists and victims is sophomoric.

  58. Living the dream Avatar
    Living the dream

    Cassie: it’s people of your ilk who are undermining societies. People who choose lies, prefer brutality, impose their own prejudices as a “liberty” and who opt always for fakers and despots of the least merit as their icon.
    Above all, you diminish in this case the reasonable rights of Ukrainians to enjoy their liberty for the sole purpose of exercising your ridiculous preference for Putin. Why? Because the “West” is in your tiny mind deficient – evidently because it doesn’t comply with your rules.
    It’s fairly clear now that Putin has brought on the destruction of his own power base because normal humans are appalled and force governments to act. In countries outside Russia where free expression is the norm, people are outraged and governments are acting. Your idol is screwed. And the LOTUS is looking like he, too, is on the slide to whence he came.

  59. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “Cassie: it’s people of your ilk who are undermining societies.”

    I doubt that very much “sweetie”.

  60. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    Cassie: it’s people of your ilk who are undermining societies. People who choose lies, prefer brutality, impose their own prejudices as a “liberty” and who opt always for fakers and despots of the least merit as their icon.

    The littlest anklebiter goes hard on the projection once again.

    Now, littlest anklebiter, if you do not include ‘Rex Anger, ATO Auditor’ in your next attempt to demonstrate your knowledge of fascist policing agencies while denouncing me for kicking you and spoiling your fun, you aren’t serious and GetUp! needs to yank your funding.

  61. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “People who choose lies, prefer brutality, impose their own prejudices as a “liberty” and who opt always for fakers and despots of the least merit as their icon.
    Above all, you diminish in this case the reasonable rights of Ukrainians to enjoy their liberty “

    Killing the dream……I do hope you apply the above standards to Israel when it responds to rockets send by a fakers and despots.

    Or are you selective when it comes to the reasonable rights of Israelis to enjoy their liberty and safety?

  62. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    it’s people of your ilk who are undermining societies

    I think we got ourselves a school-teacher here.

  63. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    I think we got ourselves a school-teacher here.”

    The one and only.

  64. PeterW Avatar
    PeterW

    If you have countries seeking to join that are next to you or your key strategic interests that is provocative.

    Exactly the excuse used by the Germans for starting two world wars.

    Since when has wanting to join with your neighbour in self defence, “provoking”? Except to those who think that might makes aggressive right.

    Nor are your neighbour’s assets your “key strategic interests”….. that is the same argument used by how many aggressors? Lebensraum, anyone? “”The Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”?

    How many million people died attempting to acquire those “key strategic interests”?

    I thought this was a Libertarian blog….. What the hell happened to the Right of the majority of Ukrainians to preserve THEIR “key strategic interests”…. and to do it by making whatever alliances they bloody well deem necessary.

  65. areff Avatar
    areff

    Do I sense Numbers is near?

  66. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    …. and to do it by making whatever alliances they bloody well deem necessary.

    If it’s all so fucking self evident then, why are the Russians shooting at you ?

    fuck me, you’re one stupid stand-point unit.

  67. Ed Case Avatar
    Ed Case

    Cause of the First World War:
    France gave Serbia a security guarantee.
    Why they did that, no one has ever worked out.
    Cause of the Second World War 20 years later:
    France gave Poland a Security Guarantee.
    Here’s a question for you, Peterw:
    Were those Guarantees worth the cost of [at least] 150 million lives?

  68. dover0beach Avatar

    Exactly the excuse used by the Germans for starting two world wars.

    Since when has wanting to join with your neighbour in self defence, “provoking”? Except to those who think that might makes aggressive right.

    Yes, yes, the eastward drift by NATO is completely innocent.

    Nor are your neighbour’s assets your “key strategic interests”….. that is the same argument used by how many aggressors? Lebensraum, anyone? “”The Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”?

    How about the Monroe doctrine? Further, what you should be really asking is why NATO membership was dangled before Ukraine when France and Germany were opposed, when the US previously agreed to never admit them, and when Russia had consistently maintained that any such move was a redline.

    How many million people died attempting to acquire those “key strategic interests”?

    The strategic interest/s is having a country allied to a competitor right next to you, and that also threatens access to vital resources to your south; not that country’s resources.

    I thought this was a Libertarian blog….. What the hell happened to the Right of the majority of Ukrainians to preserve THEIR “key strategic interests”…. and to do it by making whatever alliances they bloody well deem necessary.

    Ron Paul in 2008: NATO Expansion Is Aggression
    BTW, have you not followed the US-sponsored coup in 2014? Are you not aware of the impositions Poroshenko and Zelensky had placed on pro-Russian political parties? Do you not care that neo-Nazi militias from Western Ukraine are operating in ethnic Russian areas in the East for the last 8 years? The same militia that did all the heavy lifting for the coup in 2014. Do you not care that both Poroshenko and Zelensky have simply ignored the Minsk protocols? Or is every US military adventure, whatever the context, simply an new opportunity to claim that one of the parties is Hitler?

  69. Gabor Avatar
    Gabor

    Ed Case says:
    March 1, 2022 at 10:43 pm

    Cause of the First World War:
    France gave Serbia a security guarantee.
    Why they did that, no one has ever worked out.
    Cause of the Second World War 20 years later:
    France gave Poland a Security Guarantee.
    Here’s a question for you, Peterw:
    Were those Guarantees worth the cost of [at least] 150 million lives?

    France has a history of giving worthless security guarantees going back to 1848 and earlier.
    Sometimes you get it right, Ed Case.
    Meddling in others’ affairs, only the US can surpass France.
    Despicable lot, both of them.

  70. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    What the hell happened to the Right of the majority of Ukrainians to preserve THEIR “key strategic interests”…. and to do it by making whatever alliances they bloody well deem necessary.

    All the people and authority figures they dislike most after the last 2 years taking Ukraine’s side happened. And Ukrainians are thus forever tarred by association.

    Like I said on the Weekend Open Thread the other day, supporting the fascism of the fasicsts on one side because you can’t tolerate the fascism of the fascists on your own makes Nuffies out of all of us…

  71. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    learn to understand the difference between ‘peaceful’ and and ‘harmless’

  72. Dot Avatar

    CIA coups! Gough Whitlam! Minsk protocols!

    The idea that people can’t offend Vladimir Putin or he’ll kill or invade you is precisely why he is in the wrong. It’s absurd to accept that morally and as a practicality.

    Why is Eastern Europe – Hungary, Poland, Finland, (formerly neutral) Sweden, Ukraine – all bar crazy Lukashenko led Belarus – asking to join NATO and the EU or turning to Berlin/Brussels?

    They’re not doing it out of spite or because they’re secretly run by the US Democratic Party.

  73. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    The idea that people can’t offend Vladimir Putin or he’ll kill or invade you is precisely why he is in the wrong. It’s absurd to accept that morally and as a practicality.

    yet the Russians are there.

    fuck me … maybe something else is at stake beyond Putin’s ego

    are we done yet ascribing childish motivations for mobilizing an army?

  74. dover0beach Avatar

    It’s absurd to imagine that organizing a coup, headed by neo-Nazies, who then terrorize ethnic Russians in the East who supported the deposed elected government, has no consequences.

    Why is Eastern Europe – Hungary, Poland, Finland, (formerly neutral) Sweden, Ukraine – all bar crazy Lukashenko led Belarus – asking to join NATO and the EU or turning to Berlin/Brussels?

    Same reason countries formed a conga line to China. Bags of cash. And so they can drop military spending and let the US carry the load.

  75. Dot Avatar

    Why right now though?

  76. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    neo-Nazies

    national socialists ?

    same thing as saying, ‘not Bolshie enough’

    somehow though, I can’t help but feel that modern Russia isn’t quite as red as the USSR was

  77. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    Why right now though?

    Putin’s speech

    they know something that we don’t

    and they don’t wanna go there again

    this time, we’re the baddies

  78. Dot Avatar

    America, particularly Biden, do not represent me.

    Putin’s speech

    they know something that we don’t

    and they don’t wanna go there again

    Don’t be cryptic. What do they know?

  79. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    What do they know?

    they know exactly how pernicious and deadly the ideology is.
    they know how corrupt and blind to suffering the bureaucracy is
    they know, they lived it

  80. Gabor Avatar
    Gabor

    To all who declare their unquestioning support for Ukraine, may I remind you of the appalling way they are treating their sizable minorities?

    They were always like this, I never understood why the Chabady Jews are so committed to this land.
    Been there too long, I suppose.

  81. Dot Avatar

    *the ideology*

    Which one?

  82. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    *the ideology*

    Bolshie

  83. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    go on Dot, dig

  84. Dot Avatar

    No one is declared “unquestioned support” for Ukraine.

    The justification to start a war against Ukraine is facetious at best.

    As for their minorities…there are too many problems to solve for any one party. Eastern Europe is not a great place for minorities. How will Russian annexation help?

  85. Dot Avatar

    So “western” Europe (like Poland and Hungary) is Bolshevist and the former ex KGB guy isn’t?

    You’re not making any sense Matrix.

  86. JC Avatar

    somehow though, I can’t help but feel that modern Russia isn’t quite as red as the USSR was

    Clearly it’s not. It’s a gangsta run operation these days more along the lines of a fascist state.

  87. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “Why is Eastern Europe – Hungary, Poland, Finland, (formerly neutral) Sweden, Ukraine – all bar crazy Lukashenko led Belarus – asking to join NATO and the EU or turning to Berlin/Brussels?”

    When did Sweden ask to join NATO?

  88. Living the dream Avatar
    Living the dream

    Gabor: a number of the leading Ukrainians in the Orange Revolution and Maidan efforts were prominent Jews, as is Zelensky (whose great grandfather was sole survivor among four siblings during Nazi occupation.) This is a Ukrainian fight, not a Catholic fight or a Jewish fight, in fact many Orthodox believers are lined up with the yellow arm bands. They’ve consistently resisted, with great persistence, the efforts of Putin and his crooks to put the country back to its vassal status.

  89. dover0beach Avatar

    Why right now though?

    Because the judgement was probably made that, after 8 years, Ukraine would not negotiate on Donbass, and that a decision either way had to be made. But who knows, all we need to know are the reasons for the decision, not the reason why it is made at this particular time.

  90. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    When did Sweden ask to join NATO?

    Just in the last few days. Ditto Finland.

  91. dover0beach Avatar

    Just in the last few days. Ditto Finland.

    So it’s pretty much just expressing support for NATO/ Ukraine, not a sober assessment of their circumstances.

  92. Living the dream Avatar
    Living the dream

    An interesting issue for Putin is the fact that a majority of Russia’s officer class is Ukrainian. And a high proportion of NCOs and private soldiers are not Russian.
    Given that only Armenia of the affiliate states has lined up with Putin (and some, notably Azerbaijan, have given aid to Ukraine), Putin’s ability to pursue attacks on civilians or occupation may become messy.

  93. Rex Anger Avatar
    Rex Anger

    I am sorry, Littlest Anklebiter, but your unreferenced spiel is a little bit too far on the Ghost of Kyiv side of of the information Signal:Noise ratio.

    Tell GetUp! to find better sources, please.

  94. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    You’re not making any sense Matrix

    it is all very Bolshie except by name and I don’t really give a shit if marries with what Lenin wrote back when.

    or what the difference was between Mensheviks and Bolsheviks, or between Hitler and Tito.

    we are being fucked

    BLM and antifa have been marching around for a couple of years
    our executive, or at least America’s, seem pretty ok with that
    broadly, the west’s politics now have a distinct totalitarian, leftward bent
    their fascistic inclinations to cosy up with corporate power are more than disturbing
    WEF and pretty much every lesbo-tranny-blue haired gen z just keep pressing for more, more, and more communism

    my prediction?

    you’ll own nothing and you won’t be happy

    … it just started in the Ukraine this time

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