Open Thread – Tues 16 May 2023


The Peasant Dance, Pieter Bruegel the Elder, 1568

2,023 responses to “Open Thread – Tues 16 May 2023”

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  1. P Avatar
    P

    I was 5yrs when VJ day was celebrated. I had never heard of the Atomic Bomb until I was 10yrs old when the newspapers of the day were covered in in descriptions of the new Hydrogen Bomb and what it could do in comparison to the A-bomb. I used to wait till my father came home with the daily Mirror to read the comics, but I also read the front pages. I had many very bad dreams from this but told nobody for fear they wouldn’t continue to let me read the newspaper.
    In my adult years I was never really able to accept the releasing of the Atom bombs. My husband explained the necessity of this many time to me and he was usually right. I agreed that maybe I was wrong.

  2. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “And our reticent and camera-shy Commish? Yeah, she’ll be front and centre next week calling out transphobia, islamophobia, someotherpohobia or appearing at some coloured ribbon day breakfast or Naidoc Week or whatever.
    Stunning and brave.”

    Yep. Priorities.

  3. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    C.L.says: May 19, 2023 at 7:12 pm
    was it morally right to drop the bomb..?
    No

    I disagree, Squire.

    “Dropping the Bomb(s)” brought the seemingly interminable conflict in east Asia to a rapid end. Following the ignominious capitulation of the nayzees, as parodic as they always were.

    Not dropping the bomb in the east would have resulted in many, many more peoples dying.

    My ol’ man (a Cap’n in the Oz Army from Feb ’43) had the following “worms eye view” – “We thought the krauts were easily conquered, but the Japs were something else – mid ’46 if we were lucky”

    Rabid Dogs. The latter deserved what they got – the civilian population, not so much.

    “There are no easy decisions in war”

  4. Razey Avatar
    Razey

    It wasn’t until Russia threatened to to invade the home islands that the Japanese agreed o the allies terms. A few nuked cities didn’t really interest them as they had correctly ascertained that the US did not have many left to drop.

  5. Cassie of Sydney Avatar
    Cassie of Sydney

    “You seem to have omitted London, Liverpool, Birmingham and Coventry.”

    And Nanjing, where the Japanese army, over the course of six weeks, slaughtered over 200,000 men, women and children.

  6. Sancho Panzer Avatar
    Sancho Panzer

    Mr Whybrow’s comments came as Mr Lehrmann revealed for the first time that when he tried to get legal assistance for his ­defence, Legal Aid ACT insisted it would not allow Ms Higgins to be challenged in court as a liar, but simply “perhaps mistaken about versions of events”.

    That was the fix.
    Everyone involved was going to railroad him, because they were all on the public teat and knew their careers were over if they dared push back against Team Britnah.
    But then Whybrow takes the case and proves, time and again, and by her own admission, that Britnah is a serial pathological liar.

  7. C.L. Avatar
    C.L.

    An interesting and, in current circumstances, solemn coda to a discussion on the undeniable immorality of the atomic bombings concerns the erstwhile combination of “total war” doctrine and the catastrophic insistence on “unconditional surrender.” Ironically, given what we now of Washington’s sabotage of negotiations between Moscow and Kiev, at Potsdam in 1945 Stalin informed US and British plenipotentiaries that he had received two requests from Tokyo to act as mediator for a cessation of hostilities. He refused (with ulterior motives), to the Allies’ delight.

    Reports tonight say Zelensky will be a “special guest” at Hiroshima. Why? Because he’s the G7’s new Little Boy in new total war where negotiation has again been prohibited. So much for high-minded bullshit about learning from history.

  8. Muddy Avatar
    Muddy

    Dragnet says:
    May 19, 2023 at 10:47 pm
    My Dad spent his 19th birthday hunting down Japs in the Borneo jungle in May ’45.

    Tarakan, one presumes?
    The 26th Brigade group, 9th Division.

  9. Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare Avatar
    Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare

    Because he’s the G7’s new Little Boy in new total war where negotiation has again been prohibited.

    That’s what was so great about Trump’s CNN speech. He wants to cut a deal to stop the killing.

  10. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    the undeniable immorality of the atomic bombings concerns the erstwhile combination of “total war” doctrine and the catastrophic insistence on “unconditional surrender.”

    CL – seriously, “the undeniable immorality of the atomic bombings”
    The preceding and post Allied fire bombings being slighly less immoral.

    Because the Nayzees and the Japs were ever so slightly restrained, when it came to indescriminantly bombing their percieved enemy’s civilian population?

    You are in danger of being accused of being a moral vacuum, squire. Again.

  11. C.L. Avatar
    C.L.

    You seem to have omitted London, Liverpool, Birmingham and Coventry.

    Also immoral. Obviously.

    Not omitted, no. I was responding to previous comments about the atomic bombings and the Allies’ non-atomic incendiary raids.

  12. Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Govt Covid Stupidity Avatar
    Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Govt Covid Stupidity

    Legal Aid ACT insisted it would not allow Ms Higgins to be challenged in court as a liar, but simply “perhaps mistaken about versions of events

    the agency also rejected Mr Whybrow as “too aggressive” to take on the case

    The words elude me, the words to describe how I feel.

  13. thefrollickingmole Avatar
    thefrollickingmole

    So the defence lawyers basically advised him to plead guilty.
    How many other people have been given a similar railroading in that jurisdiction?

  14. Rabz Avatar
    Rabz

    the erstwhile combination of “total war” doctrine and the catastrophic insistence on “unconditional surrender

    CL – for goodness’ sake, it produced results, did it not?

    When you’re engaged in a (supposedly existential) stroogle against the likes of the Nayzees and the Japs there is no room for mercy. Until there is. After they are all dead, dead, dead …

    I tells ya. 🙂

  15. MatrixTransform Avatar
    MatrixTransform

    ‘moral’ is meta

    there is no war that proceeds from morals

    the thought comes after the act

  16. Alamak! Avatar
    Alamak!

    How many other people have been given a similar railroading in that jurisdiction?

    Perhaps a look needs to be taken at all the cases involving DPP Drumgold in any capacity, for a start. And any advice given by Legal Aid in last few years. The more we see the worse this thing gets.

  17. Alamak! Avatar
    Alamak!

    there is no war that proceeds from morals

    correct, there might be a just war but not a ‘moral’ war.

  18. Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Govt Covid Stupidity Avatar
    Salvatore, Understaffed & Overworked Martyr to Govt Covid Stupidity

    thefrollickingmole says: May 19, 2023 at 11:43 pm
    So the defence lawyers basically advised him to plead guilty.
    How many other people have been given a similar railroading in that jurisdiction?

    I’ll make an estimate on that. (estimate = based on some experience & is stronger than a “guess”)
    A helluva lot of people.
    Jails are half full of people who had sub-optimal legal representation.

    Methodology:
    1/. Whenever you catch someone at something, it is never the first time they’ve done it. In fact you usually catch them because they’re doing it so often & with such impunity that they’ve become complacent & forget to cover their tracks.
    2/. This one would never have been noticed had it not been elevated to nationwide front-page news & remained there longer than a Beatles hit. & equally as importantly, been so cut & dried “not guilty” but instead more ambiguous.

  19. Boambee John Avatar
    Boambee John

    Zulu Kilo Two Alphasays:
    May 19, 2023 at 10:38 pm
    C.L. was that assessment before or after the allies discovered what the POWs had endured?

    After the surrender, when the questioning began.

    After the heavy naval losses off Okinawa (36 ships sunk, almost 400 damaged), Nimitz informed King and Truman that the USN could not support the Operation Olympic landings on the Japanese home islands.

  20. Robert Sewell Avatar

    Grey Ranga:

    I’m surprised she’s not complaining about not being able to get a root. Wonder why.

    If you don’t mind, I’m having brekky up here.

  21. rickw Avatar
    rickw

    “the undeniable immorality of the atomic bombings”

    Clearly not much of a student of the Pacific Islands campaigns. Take a look at the absolute carnage of the invasion of Saipan for a start. Japanese women jumping off suicide cliff with children in arms. You can find the footage on YouTube.

    A mainland invasion would have seen exactly the same played out on a nation wide scale. The US troops would have had enough of being take out by women and children, they would fix this by just killing everyone.

    Japan today for having the absolute shit beaten out of them, having their faces rubbed in it, is a much better nation for it. A Japan offered a negotiated surrender would not be the same Japan that we know today.

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