Open Thread – Weekend 16 Sept 2023
1,007 responses to “Open Thread – Weekend 16 Sept 2023”
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The leader of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov, is reported to be in critical condition, according to Ukrainian military intelligence. Inshallah
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If you tell me this is not an organised invasion then what is it?
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Archbishop Kay Goldsworthy of the Anglican Church Diocese of Perth featured prominently on The Drum last night.
There was a lot of talk about the church failing to move with the times and not keeping up with changes going on in the modern world.
As she spoke about the importance of this, one couldn’t help noticing that the good Archbishop flaunted her special status as a Prince(ss) of the Church by wearing a purple shirt and dog collar with a large pectoral cross.
She’s the very model of a modern Archbishop. She wears the skin suit as proof.
Funny, too, how hetero couples like Jacinta and hubby are introduced as ‘partners’ whereas homos insist on the traditional ‘husband’ and ‘wife’.
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DrBeauGan
Sep 16, 2023 5:16 AMKeeping up with the times is not what the church is for. Quite the contrary; it should be concerned with eternal verities, not fashionable idiocies.
Not a religious one myself, but that’s exactly what I alluded to in my comment a day or so ago.
God is eternal, he/she laid down the rules. That’s it.
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The other day someone here scoffed at my suggestion that good websites should have an open slather comments section. They reasoned that it would lead to litigation. Isn’t that largely what we have here with the Cat, CL, SDA, and Jo etc? No doubt some commenters are blocked but there is generally robust discussion and I have learnt so much from this over the years. I’m sure there is a way to maintain decorum on these sites. The reason that I don’t subscribe to the AFR, for example, is that there are no comments sections for the articles. Imagine if we could point out Philip Coorey’s arguments are bollocks?
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Not a religious one myself, but that’s exactly what I alluded to in my comment a day or so ago.
God is eternal, he/she laid down the rules. That’s it.
While I do not believe that there is a being who created everything, I acknowledge that human beings have a hunger for the transcendent, the sublime. Also, human nature is a reality which is ignored at your peril. So I find myself in agreement with quite a lot of Christian moral teaching as realistic solutions to perennial human problems. And feeling awe and wonder at the universe we live in is absolutely right.
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Watching a Louis CK clip on instagram.
He starts with 44 of his family were murdered at Auschwitz (they were Hungarian Jews) and ends it with his paternal grandfather fleeing to Mexico.
Many people make a big thing about notable people in their family tree.
Imagine going back through your family history and seeing whole branches of it just ending like that. -
The whole do unto others etc… is a pretty decent place to start.
Yes indeed. And be kind to your enemies is brilliant. I am impressed by the moral clarity of many of the sayings of Jesus and others who followed him.
‘What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?’
There’s many a member of the parasite class would do well to reflect on that one.
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I was at the prof Will Happer talk last night The best line
Where there is a trough there will be pigs .
Most interesting fact Plant photosynthesis requires less water ie more carbon less water required and CSIRO maps of the greening of the world . Also pictures of plants increasing in size with more carbon -
“Funny, too, how hetero couples like Jacinta and hubby are introduced as ‘partners’ whereas homos insist on the traditional ‘husband’ and ‘wife’.”
Yes, I’ve noticed that as well. Here in NSW, that sinister, creepy, and very dangerous homosexual state member for Sydney, Alex Greenfilth, loves to describe his partner as his “husband”.
This is why I was sooooooo glad that Jacinta stood up and corrected the introduction when Colin was described as her “partner”. Wrong, as Jacinta rightly said, Colin is her “husband” (and a handsome and striking man he is).
What a great gal Jacinta is. What a credit to her parents.
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1 Timothy 2:12
Amen. Interesting how the agnostics and atheists get it but determined wymynses who say they believe ignore it.
Again, I think the Christians have a better insight into human nature, in this case the differences between men and women.
Women are the natural nurturing sex, men the protective sex. When women have power over men, they can easily abuse it. Men can abuse their power too, of course, but their instincts make it less likely, and less frightful when they do.
It doesn’t require much insight into human nature to see this. Feminism hasn’t done women much good, and a lot of harm.
It was supposed to be liberating for women to be able to go out to work. Now they have to, for financial reasons, when their instincts are to stay home and raise children. -
“The other day someone here scoffed at my suggestion that good websites should have an open slather comments section. They reasoned that it would lead to litigation. Isn’t that largely what we have here with the Cat, CL, SDA, and Jo etc? No doubt some commenters are blocked but there is generally robust discussion and I have learnt so much from this over the years. I’m sure there is a way to maintain decorum on these sites. The reason that I don’t subscribe to the AFR, for example, is that there are no comments sections for the articles. Imagine if we could point out Philip Coorey’s arguments are bollocks?”
I don’t think it was a scoffing. There is robust debate and comment here, just like on the Old Cat, but Sinclair and Dover always have to have some moderation. Sometimes that comes with trusting commentators, most of our comments are published here immediately because Dover trusts us. However, if you’ve never been here before, and you try and post a comment or two, it will go into moderation, until Dover decides to publish it or no. Then you have the case where Dover has had to smite/bin/toss commentators, some who have been deliberately provocative and reckless, and some who have simply lost their minds and they begin to post libellous/inflammatory stuff. You might ask who’s liable if someone takes exception to a post or two? Well, it is Dover. You do know that according to the HC ruling of a few years ago, which stemmed from the Dylan Voller case, the HC “expanded the scope of the meaning of the concept of ‘publisher’ to include administrators of public Facebook pages, meaning that administrators can now potentially be liable for defamatory comments made by third parties even where an administrator has no actual knowledge their page .”
That’s why you can’t have open slather on any comment page. I think Dover is, just like Sinclair was, pretty lenient when it comes to commenting here. As for those who might think that such a blog like this wouldn’t attract any attention, I would warn against being naive. A right-wing discussion blog of this type is a target of left-wing fascists, who would shut this place down in a heartbeat if they could.
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“She’s the very model of a modern Archbishop. She wears the skin suit as proof.”
Yes, it’s a veneer. Despite the inclusion, despite the never ending cultural Marxism, the churches empty by the day.
Which is why I take my hat off to the Presbyterian Church for their stance on the bulldust that is welcome to country.
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Warren Mundine with Vickie Grieves Williams:
Outrage has become a common feature in modern politics. If someone screams when you press their skin, it’s a sign of injury lurking underneath. Likewise, if a person reacts with outrage in political debate, it often masks great vulnerability in their position.
A few months ago, the National Indigenous Australians Agency released records of the 14 regional Dialogues on constitutional recognition that preceded the Uluru Statement of the Heart.
The document is 112 pages long.
Confusingly, it begins at the end with “Document 14”, labelled this way because it’s a record of the 14th and final Dialogue held at a resort in Yulara, near Uluru, during which the document known as the “Uluru Statement from the Heart” was released.
Documents one to 13 follow, being records of the 13 Dialogues that preceded it.
These records provide considerable material for commentary and critique of the proposed Voice, only one of the “requests” in the Statement from the Heart.
Advocates for the Voice reacted to this scrutiny with so much outrage it was like someone had poured disinfectant into a gaping wound. No wonder. Document 14 is a dossier declaring a metaphorical war on modern Australia.
This outrage has focused on how long the Uluru Statement is. Whether it’s just the 439 words reproduced on canvas surrounded by attendee signatures and artwork for display in museums. Or the longer and now infamous “Document 14”.
This has distracted us from the most important point. The howls of outrage are a warning. We need to examine Document 14 in detail and we need to talk about it.
Document 14 is a 26-page document headed “Uluru Statement from the Heart”. Page one contains the 439 words Prime Minister Albanese describes as an “eloquent request”. The remaining pages are grouped under four sub-headings:
• “Our Story”, an Indigenous history of Australia;
• “Guiding Principles”, governing the 14th Dialogue’s assessment of reform proposals;
• “Reform Priorities” assessing proposals considered in the previous 13 Dialogues and detailing the three favoured by the 14th Dialogue being a Voice to Parliament, Treaty and Truth-telling and their rationale; and
• “Roadmap” outlining the plan for implementing the Voice, Treaty, Truth reforms.
It’s now heresy to suggest the Uluru Statement is anything other than the 439 words reproduced on the canvas.
This edict has been issued by the NIAA, ticked off by RMIT Fact Check and endorsed by Yes campaigners everywhere.
Albanese described the suggestion the Uluru Statement includes these sections as “absolute nonsense”, “a conspiracy theory” and like believing the moon landing was fake.
But, until recently, the whole document was pushed by the chief architect of the Voice, Professor Megan Davis, who’s said repeatedly in speeches, interviews and print, that many people don’t know the Uluru Statement isn’t just one page but indeed a longer document of circa 18 pages.
In her 2018 Human Rights Oration, for example, she said the Uluru Statement “includes the very important statement that we issued to the Australian people at Uluru but it also includes a very important story that we called ‘Our Story’ that maps Aboriginal history through Aboriginal eyes starting with the invasion and traversing many phases of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander history”.
This, in itself, is an astounding assertion that begs closer examination.
In her 2018 Henry Parkes Oration, she said the Uluru Statement is “not just the one page invitation to the Australian people, it also includes what we call ‘Our Story’ … and also a few pages … on the reform. Why do we want a Voice? What will a Voice do? So, I urge everybody [to] … read that whole document, which we call the Uluru Statement from the Heart.”
And in a recent contribution to a book, “Our Voices from the Heart”, she and co-author Pat Anderson said the Uluru Statement “includes three elements: the one-page pitch to the Australian people; ‘Our Story’ of the First Nations history of Australia; and the explanation of the legal reform’’.
Davis believes Document 14 is essential to understanding what the Uluru Statement is about, what it is intended to achieve, and what the 439 words are actually asking for. And until it became politically unwise to say so, she wanted Makarrata everyone to read it.
She’s right. Everybody should read that whole document, whatever you want to call it.
Document 14 is steeped in grievance; with Indigenous Australians trapped in victimhood and oppression, not currently free or able to make their own decisions; where self-determination is an aspiration, not something within reach today.
That’s a lie; as is the inference self-determination can only be granted by government (and bizarrely by a government that the ‘Our Story’ narrative frames as illegitimate).
Nothing could be further from the idea of reconciliation than Document 14.
It contemplates a future of separation, with First Nations sovereignty standing apart from, and opposite to, Australian sovereignty.
But not only that.
Document 14 also stands against traditional owner autonomy over their own lands and seas; rooted in the idea of one homogenous pan-Indigenous people with one capital “L” law.
That’s the very clear objective of the Makarrata Commission, which is the second body requested in the Uluru Statement (and right there in the words on the canvas).
The final paragraphs of Document 14 should be chilling for all Australians, but especially for traditional owners, where it states: “The Bill establishing the Makarrata Commission should confer all necessary powers and functions to facilitate the settlement of a National Makarrata Framework Agreement between Australian Governments and First Peoples, as well as subsequent First People Agreements at the local level. The role of the National Native Title Tribunal should be subsumed by the Makarrata Commission, which should have as one of its functions the role of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to enable all Australians to face the truth of the past and to embrace a common hope for the future.”
The Uluru Statement from the Heart is a political ploy to grab power, not just from the Australian nation but also from traditional owners themselves.
It’s apt that Davis and Anderson’s recent writings describe the 439 words as a “pitch”.
It’s a glossy marketing document for the misappropriation of culture, a misrepresentation of history, and for a radical and divisive vision of Australia.
All done in the name of Aboriginal people but subsuming our interests and very much working against us.
There will be other essays from these 2 in the Daily Telegraph over the next few Fridays in the lead up to the referendum date. If this one is any indication, they are required reading.
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Is it just me or is tab.com.au one of the worst websites in corporate Australia?
It is forever sending me down metaphorical closed roads and, more often than, refuses to open today’s racing menu — the basic information required by every punter.
It doesn’t matter which browser I use, the software malfunctions are ubiquitous.
Just another shit product from a former government instrumentality.
At least Qantas has a good website that works.
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Cassie – the constant alarmism on the weather reports drives my husband crazy! We have all lived through genuine hot spells & the exaggerated alarm of TV hacks is plain stupid. I don’t know if anyone had noticed, but subtitles are frequently now misspelt. The general standard of the media probably reflects a decline in education.
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Anyone that purchases an electric vehicle to save the planet is a certifiable f-wit. If it ends up bursting into flames and reducing your house into ash ….good. Suck it up, retards.
John Stossel Reveals Inconvenient Facts About Electric Vehicles
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Archbishop Kay Goldsworthy of the Anglican Church Diocese of Perth featured prominently on The Drum last night. There was a lot of talk about the church failing to move with the times and not keeping up with changes going on in the modern world.
Someone should remind the “archbishop” of the old saying, “Whoever marries the spirit of this age will find herself a widow in the next.”
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Warren Mundine:
The Uluru Statement from the Heart is a political ploy to grab power, not just from the Australian nation but also from traditional owners themselves.
That’s why the activists are squealing so loudly when it is pointed out.
The whole idea of the referendum is that it’s a political stitch-up that can’t be undone once it’s written into the Australian Constitution.
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Anyone who threatens suicide if they don’t get their own way is a narcissistic abuser.
Local ABC radio interviewed a big wig in an aboriginal health service who claimed the “outbreak of racism” associated with the referendum was leading to increased referrals for mental health issues.
Let me say off the bat, anyone who engages in actual racist trolling on the back of this issue is a dickhead.
That being said, what did the lady mean by “racism” and how many referrals above average were they getting? Neither question was asked by the interviewer, of course.
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The Lion Whisperer:
Join Kevin Richardson as he takes lions Vayetse and Ginny out on a fun enrichment walk. In this video, Kevin gives some health updates on Vayetse and also answers some questions that often appear in the comments. Watch to the end to hear the answers! Also, we have a trailer for the membership video coming out on Monday.
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Local ABC radio interviewed a big wig in an aboriginal health service who claimed the “outbreak of racism” associated with the referendum was leading to increased referrals for mental health issues.It’s similar to any time there is a protest from a group that isn’t approved, the phone lines light up with a fleet of ambulances stuck trying to get to hospitals.
The odd thing is that apart from the surrogates calling talkback radio, there is nothing to confirm that this ever happened.The opposite is the case when the extinction rebellion boomers are blocking traffic.
You see an ambulance right there being blocked, but that’s ok because extinction rebellion is approved. -
Even if there are children in the house?
Not just that, what if you live in apartment complex?
I know everyone is angry after COVID but you just have accept that whole charade as an irrecoverable loss of both your liberty and a loss of part of your finite life, as a sunk costs.
No amount of vengeance will make this any better.
If you fail to accept the loss and fail to forgive (or at least move on) you will be damaged for life.
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Another miserable ghost.
Tony Blair Demands Junk Food Be Made Too Expensive for Poor People and Save the NHS (15 Sep)
Unhealthy foods should be taxed by the government in order to shape the decisions of poorer people and reduce the strain on the National Health Service, former Prime Minister Tony Blair said this week.
The opposition to the “nanny state” is small in the UK, Tony Blair surmised, and therefore the government could get away with imposing regressive taxes on so-called junk foods similar to the smoking ban in indoor public spaces imposed when he served as prime minister in 2007.
Just go away. Maybe have a nice meal of raw broccoli with Michelle Obama.
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For starters we have an ontology grounded in reality rather than post-modern liquidity.
You and I may disagree about whether some statements are true, but we certainly agree that truth exists, that it makes sense to say that some statements are true and others false.
Post-modernism is an incoherent mess, if there is no objective truth, then the statement that there is no objective truth isn’t an objective truth so can safely be ignored.
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You and I may disagree about whether some statements are true, but we certainly agree that truth exists…
Indubitably.
Ideas always have consequences, and we’re seeing the consequences of a lot of bad ideas in the current absurd confusion over biology and sex in particular, with much damage being done to lives as a result.
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The Biden administration is taking the Missouri v Biden to SCOTUS.
The case started with the administration & it’s affiliates saying they didn’t censor.
Which they got anally probed with the 4th July ruling.
Then the appeal knocked out a whole bunch of stuff but upheld they couldn’t bully, threaten social media companies to censor (or else).
But the administration can’t even let that stand.
So the SCOTUS case will be show that not only did the administration bully/threaten but they demand to be able to continue doing so. -
“vaccines, earthquakes, and now EVs.”
Oh I forgot another one, the other day here Trickler’s soul was consumed by the events of September 11, 2001, and anyone who dared dispute his crazy ramblings about buildings falling down was called a “c*nt” and/or told to “eff off”.
Hmm, just whose soul is “consumed”?
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Cassie of Sydney
Sep 16, 2023 8:09 AM
“Go on and do a rant about a MSM article. It seems it consumes your soul.”Firstly, I don’t rant about “MSM articles”.
Secondly, your own soul is permanently entangled, obsessed and consumed by vaccines, earthquakes, and now EVs.
Yes you do, and you are brilliant at it. Don’t comment on the jabs or earthquakes because you are out if your league.
STFU!
You need help.
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(The down tick doesn’t worry me; I’m interested in your counter argument.)
My sentiments exactly re downticking, Roger. If there is a clear counter-argument then OK, the downtick can stand as a reference to that (as in the yes and no cases for the Voice), but if the reason for the downtick is opaque and might lead to interesting debate on something substantive, maybe downtickers should come in and try to explain their reasoning.
Otherwise downticks can often proxy simply for personal dislike of the commenter.
Which is stupid. Worthless aggro.
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Archbishop Kay Goldsworthy of the Anglican Church Diocese of Perth featured prominently on The Drum last night.
I foolishly attended a service at St Georges Cathedral at the start of NAIDOC Week, and she featured prominently.
Lets just say that the old Sydney bible-reading push have lost the war with revisionism. In that service, Christianity itself was thrown out for performative worship of other people’s ancestors. -
Could someone tell me how a player like Max Gawn reached one handed to touch a shot on goal from his own teammate?
Gawn was not that effective all night apart from taps. Didn’t get to enough contests.
Carlton’s big men did a far better job apart from defence where the D’s Lever and May did their usual high quality work. Any club would give their eye teeth for this pair in the backline.
The night was summed up for me when a Carlton player had a brain fade and kicked the wrong way but it still ended up on the chest of a teammate. -
James Campbell asks the question:
It should have been the week the starting gun fired on the sprint to victory at next month’s Voice referendum.
But with a month until polling day and polls showing the vote likely to fail, minds in the government are turning to how the divisions from the campaign can be healed.
The first official week of the campaign, which began on Monday with Governor-General David Hurley issuing the writs for the October 14 vote, quickly turned into a horror show for the Yes campaign after comments emerged of Professor Marcia Langton telling an audience in Western Australia that the No campaign’s arguments came down to “base racism” or “just sheer stupidity”.
Langton was later at pains to make clear she was talking only about the arguments and was not calling No voters racist or stupid.
But in private, senior government figures and Yes23 staff were not hiding the fact they thought the comments played into the hands of the No camp and were a disaster for the campaign.
Privately some ministers expressed frustration at the reluctance to publicly rebuke her.
“We should have distanced ourselves from Langton,” one minister said.
The Yes23 campaign wasn’t sure how to respond either.
“In an election campaign you can disendorse candidates, but it’s a referendum. You can’t sack Marcia Langton because you don’t like what she’s said,” a senior Yes23 campaign strategist said on Thursday.
Bizarrely, with only four weeks to go until the vote — and with the polling all showing the referendum is likely to fail — a surprising number of senior Labor figures say minds have yet to turn to what the government plans to do on the morning after the night the vote goes down.
In the aftermath of the 2016 Brexit referendum, which saw the UK vote to leave the EU, then UK prime minister David Cameron, who had led the case to remain, resigned.
Could the same thing happen here?
“How does he stay if the Yes vote starts with a 3 when he’s put the country through this?” a senior Coalition frontbencher said.
A former Morrison government minister said it was right that people considered what he called “the David Cameron option”.
“(Anthony Albanese) is the one who insisted on this in this form to the existence of other forms, he’s got to take responsibility for that,” he said.
“There are a lot of similarities. He chose to do it. He chose for it to be in that form to the exclusion of all others, and was adamant about it. It was all or nothing. That was his choice.
“Now when you make an all-or-nothing play, you’ve got to accept the all-or-nothing outcome.”
But Labor MPs who spoke to News Corp all rejected the prospect of the PM quitting in the wake of defeat, with one saying the caucus was “100 per cent behind him” and no Australian prime minister had ever quit who had lost a referendum.
But a minister conceded it was strange how little work had gone into preparing for this outcome.
The reason for that, he said, was simple: “Because it’s a thought crime.”
Another said the prospect preying foremost on his mind was how it would be received by Indigenous Australia.
“It is going to be a really bad day for Aboriginal people if the polls should be proved correct,” he said.
There would also be angry recriminations from the inner-city Left — “a pity party for the ages”, as one Labor activist described it — which the government would need to avoid indulging.
“I think there needs to be a balance of humility, reflection and optimism,” the minister said.
“There’s got to be a hope proposition, but turning that into something that can be operationalised is really f..king hard.”
A Labor MP, who made no bones about the fact he thinks the referendum is going to fail, said “it will take some time” for the country to get over the vote.
“There will be a lot of bitterness and rancour about this,” he said.
He said Mr Albanese would need to “redouble his effort on closing the gap” after the campaign was over.
“Housing, health, education, homelessness — that’s what he’s got to do for the country,” the MP said.
Just how bleak the aftermath of defeat might be was summed up by Yes23 spokesman Thomas Mayo, a favourite target of the No campaign, who said the damage would take generations to heal.
“You won’t be able to undo the hurt or the damage it does, particularly, and most importantly, to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, because the truth is this is a modest proposal despite fear mongering, it’s just an advisory committee, that’s all it is, what most of the respected constitutional experts and former High Court justices say,” Mr Mayo said.
“It will take more than a lifetime to heal the damage of a No vote, it will take many lifetimes I think.”
Mr Mayo is in no doubt that the blame for the decline in the Yes vote’s fortunes can be attributed to the Federal Opposition’s decision in April to oppose the Voice.
“It’s only been since the No campaign has ramped up its misinformation and fear campaign that we have seen those numbers plummet,” Mr Mayo said.
“It should never have been something that a political party decided to make an issue that is about being re-elected. It’s just wrong.”
Another minister, who admitted he had “no idea” how the government planned to move on if No won out, drew attention to the Prime Minister’s rhetoric last week in parliament in which he said Australians are “fundamentally decent” and “regardless of what way they vote in a democratic referendum, I respect Australians — each and every one of them.”
“I think that’s the tone he’s going to be striking,” the minister said.
“The challenge,” his colleague said, will be “to find a message and a tone that cuts through what will be wild noise, that doesn’t look like it’s picking a fight with the vote — whilst not letting Dutton off the hook — and which provides as much comfort as possible to First Nations people who’ll be doing it tough and who know there isn’t an easy answer to that pain.”
But a senior Labor official, who is deeply involved in the campaign, was blunt about how little thought so far has gone into this.
“It’s a good question how we handle it and I’m not sure comrades have properly turned their minds to it,” the official said.
Bit in there comrades! (Chortle)
Mayo suggests that more intergenerational trauma will follow a No decision. It won’t.
Labor person says it will cause “rancour and bitterness” if it goes down. It will amongst the inner city elites. Old mate in rural areas, not so much.
Labor insiders suggesting they can’t distance themselves from Langton. They should have long ago.
Yes no Australian PM has resigned because of referenda being dismissed. But the knives will certainly be out. -
I still can’t find the pictures I want. Those tarps om the roof.
The Oklahoma City bombing, 25 years later: The picture and the pain
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Anyone who thinks 2600 kg of ANFO can’t damage but not destroy a moderately sized commercial building used for white-collar work is a bit fruity.
The explosive power of that bomb is nearly that of four “2000 lb” Mk 84 bombs filled with 429 kg of TNT/aluminium powder.
One of those could sink an aircraft carrier with one direct hit.
Trickler, you’re not qualified to comment, just take it on the chin along with the diarrhoea.
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Maybe Dove soap is next on the boycott list.
Surprised Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition didn’t get her gracing the cover.
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