Open Thread – Weekend 16 Sept 2023


Three Women Reading in a Summer Landscape, Johan Krouthén,1908

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Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 3:21 pm

calli
Sep 17, 2023 3:11 PM
My “explanation” is taken from experience.

But do continue to insult me.

I’m not insulting you. I would never do so. The fact is people gobble up the MSM narrative without critical thought. I remember the wild fires in California when Dutchsinse captured the DEW attacks on the satellite feeds.

There are evil bastards in this world.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 3:22 pm

The main thing that turned Arnhem into a disaster for the allies was poor intelligence evaluation! .. being aware of the presence of 2 Panzer divisions, in the area, on rest & re-fit and deciding they weren’t a problem

The main thing that turned Arnhem into disaster for the Allies was the failure of the 82nd Airborne, at Nijmegen, to adhere to their orders, which were that the “bridges were to be seized with thunderclap surprise.” For whatever reasons, they gave priority to holding the high ground outside Nijmegen, and decided to wait for the British Army to arrive, before taking the bridge. The much maligned XXX Corps arrived at Nijmegen on September 19th – the road to Arnhem was open, and Frost’s paras held the bridge at Arnhem. It was the two days spent capturing the Nijmegen bridge that was the major cause for the failure of the operation.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 3:22 pm

Let’s assume, for arguments sake, the ‘perfect parallels’ are there, how do you avoid turning Taiwan into Ukraine?

Dunno, that’s for the US military to decide.

My point is that Taiwan almost equals the Ukraine, and those patting the old Klepto in the back for unsuccessfully attempting to invade Ukraine are going to have hard time explaining their support of Taiwan.

You’ve been though this before with others and I haven’t noticed you wading in to counter this problem because it’s a little difficult.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 3:23 pm

The cars melting? It was a DEW attack.

UFOs. They’re trendy right now. Aliens have a bad effect on cars.

Cassie of Sydney
September 17, 2023 3:27 pm

“It’s all about the money,”

Yep, always has been, always will be…..about the money.

Vagabond
Vagabond
September 17, 2023 3:27 pm

Top Ender
Sep 17, 2023 10:37 AM
If you go to the MONA art museum in Hobart – and I recommend you don’t, as all of the “art” is rubbish – they have a piece which is 90 or so vaginas on display.

I was there a few years ago with some female medical colleagues and we looked for that piece but couldn’t find it. I went up to a female attendant to ask where it was and she replied: “Sorry mate, the cnuts aren’t here any more”.

Nobody’s ever said that to me, either before or after.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 3:33 pm

Let me add one wrinkle to my comments.

I shouldn’t assume that the putinistas would be, or are siding with Taiwan. The logical corollary would be they would support the aggrieved China against Taiwan.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 3:34 pm

Bruce of Newcastle
Sep 17, 2023 3:23 PM
The cars melting? It was a DEW attack.

UFOs. They’re trendy right now. Aliens have a bad effect on cars.

Explain the steel columns getting vaporized on 911. If you think the footage is fake just say so. As it stands, it has rattled a lot of people. People are perplexed.

johanna
johanna
September 17, 2023 3:35 pm

It seems that the Hawaiian fires were as badly handled as ours were.

Refusal to learn seems to be built into the DNA of so called ‘Emergency Services’ all over the world.

I remember the same lessons being repeated again and again in inquiries into Australian bushfires. Not implemented.

I suppose that they all think of themselves as comic book heroes, with not much thought to the practicalities.

areff
areff
September 17, 2023 3:38 pm

Dad was in his eighties when I got a call from a very anxious Mum. “You father’s on the roof and can’t get back down.”

An hour later, using my body as a sort of handrail and with one neighbour stabilising the ladder while another guided Dad over the guttering, we finally got him down unharmed.

Then we had to listen to him claiming he was never in any real trouble. Apparently he has spent three hours up there because he enjoyed the view.

The next week he took up riding a bicycle. Fortunately his lungs were too far gone to persist with that for more than a day.

Salvation came in the shape of a motorised zippy chair, which allowed him to get away from Mum, take his ancient dog for ride/walk and get about the neighbourhood sticking his nose in other people’s business.

He’s been gone 12 years. Every time I see his photo on my desk, I miss him all over again.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 3:42 pm

johanna
Sep 17, 2023 3:35 PM
It seems that the Hawaiian fires were as badly handled as ours were.

Everything was deliberate. The Cops at the road block “following orders” needs to be shot.

Indolent
Indolent
September 17, 2023 3:43 pm
johanna
johanna
September 17, 2023 3:46 pm

H B Bear
Sep 17, 2023 11:44 AM

I am more a “disaster insurance” type.
Will insure for the catastrophe with high excess.

That is very much along the lines of the Taleb approach. Ride the bumps but beware of anything that will wipe you out. Can be hard to do in practice.

Yep, haven’t had house insurance for years,

If you live in a flood or bushfire zone, go for it. But what is happening is that people in low risk areas are having their premiums bumped up.

The average home & contents insurance has risen around 60% in the last few years in my part of the world. Meanwhile, no floods, no crimewave, nothing like that. They simply can.

I ditched home insurance many years ago, and I’m in front by thousands.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 3:51 pm

Expect DEW attacks in OZ this summer.

“Climate Change”

Now we know what to look for. Anyone suggesting a fast moving firestorm can melt vehicles is rooted in the head. They were zapped.

Vicki
Vicki
September 17, 2023 3:53 pm

I remember the same lessons being repeated again and again in inquiries into Australian bushfires. Not implemented.

Local knowledge is often overrided by the fire bureaucrats, & their fellow travellers. NPWS most often will not permit back burning in hazardous areas of national parks adjacent to farmland. I recall one local meeting during the last major fire season in which regional fire chiefs attended. One vocal member of our local RFS reminded the meeting that “ these blokes go home at 5pm.”

Says it all.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 3:59 pm

Steve trickler
Sep 17, 2023 3:51 PM

Expect DEW attacks in OZ this summer.

Tickler, I think you’ve been watching Foundation on Apple +. Loved how Empire zapped an entire planet, in the previous episode, turning it into a red hot fire ball. Cool as.

Vicki
Vicki
September 17, 2023 4:01 pm

If you go to the MONA art museum in Hobart – and I recommend you don’t, as all of the “art” is rubbish – they have a piece which is 90 or so vaginas on display.

I visited MONA some years ago & expected, on the descriptions of others, to hate it. On the contrary, I found many many exhibits to be very thought provoking. Not your conventional art, but interesting nevertheless.

As for the infamous vagina collection – every vagina mould was different. I don’t know why, but that actually surprised me. It made me contemplate the difference, yet sameness of humanity. My (then) 7 year old granddaughter had quite a different reaction. Her mother told me she fled the gallery screaming!

miltonf
miltonf
September 17, 2023 4:03 pm

YouTube seems to be piping in a lot of anti Trump/anti GOP puke lately. That prick Schmidt and the incontinent old piece filth itself (aka the old thief). Fuk off Google.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:11 pm

History books are shit. There was an OLD WORLD and about 300 years was scrubbed from history.

—-

Secrets Behind the Symbols?

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 4:12 pm

You’re punting this problem to the US.

Yes

If the parallels are as you say, you should have some idea/s about how repeating the disaster in Ukraine could be avoided in Taiwan.

It’s too hard to get rid of Xi from the outside.

It’s not as if watching what has happened in Ukraine over the last 16 months should fill the people of Taiwan with confidence in the US.

Why, because Russia is preforming like a superpower.

Don’t digress.

If China attacked Taiwan who would you support?

Old Lefty
Old Lefty
September 17, 2023 4:12 pm

You theory about the Age and SMH may be right, Miltonf. Fairfax conditions before the sale to Nine and ACM included four weeks’ redundancy pay for every year’s service, uncapped. (Even Commonwealth public service fat cats get only two weeks, with a 48-week cap.) It’s just too expensive to get rid of the long-serving hacks.

There was one exception (no names) in Sydney who got shunted off to ‘teach’ ‘journalism’ because the libel payouts were costing too much.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 4:13 pm

Anybody heard that Warren Mundine may be replacing Marise Payne in the Senate?

miltonf
miltonf
September 17, 2023 4:15 pm

Interesting Old Lefty- it’s funny seeing the tired old rag on sale at truck stops in Melbourne- who the hell would buy it?

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 17, 2023 4:17 pm

Explain the steel columns getting vaporized on 911. If you think the footage is fake just say so. 

It’s fake.
There, I said it.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:17 pm

miltonf
Sep 17, 2023 4:03 PM
YouTube seems to be piping in a lot of anti Trump/anti GOP puke lately. That prick Schmidt and the incontinent old piece filth itself (aka the old thief). Fuk off Google.

The place has gone to sh*t when it comes to news and politics. It’s still great for entertainment.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:18 pm

Sancho Panzer
Sep 17, 2023 4:17 PM

F*ckhead.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 4:26 pm

He’s gonsky.

LOL

Rolling Stone co-founder Jann Wenner removed from Rock Hall leadership after controversial comments

NEW YORK (AP) — Jann Wenner, who co-founded Rolling Stone magazine and also was a co-founder of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, has been removed from the hall’s board of directors after making comments that were seen as disparaging toward Black and female musicians.

“Jann Wenner has been removed from the Board of Directors of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Foundation,” the hall said Saturday, a day after Wenner’s comments were published in a New York Times interview.

A representative for Wenner, 77, did not immediately respond for a comment.

Wenner created a firestorm doing publicity for his new book “The Masters,” which features interviews with musicians
, Jerry Garcia, Mick Jagger, ,

, Pete Townshend and U2’s Bono — all white and male.

Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.

“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.

Wenner co-founded Rolling Stone in 1967 and served as its editor or editorial director until 2019. He also co-founded the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, which was launched in 1987.

In the interview, Wenner seemed to acknowledge he would face a backlash. “Just for public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism.”

Last year, Rolling Stone magazine published its 500 Greatest Albums of All Time and ranked Gaye’s “What’s Going On” No. 1, “Blue” by Mitchell at No. 3, Wonder’s “Songs in the Key of Life” at No. 4, “Purple Rain” by Prince and the Revolution at No. 8 and Ms. Lauryn Hill’s “The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill” at No. 10.

Rolling Stone’s niche in magazines was an outgrowth of Wenner’s outsized interests, a mixture of authoritative music and cultural coverage with tough investigative reporting.

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 4:26 pm

Another aspect of the short piece of film on the Maui fires – the role landform, and in particular slopes, play in destruction and variability. There appeared to be a gully that the fire “hopped” over, sparing a house on the near side.

I’ve done a stack of fire hazard reports for Council over the years, and one of the most sensitive areas you can build is on the ridgeline. Special measures have to be taken if that’s where you are, including materials, plant spp and spacing. This is not difficult stuff.

If you want to believe in DEWs, be my guest, but there are many rational explanations for what happened. Even the failures of the bureaucracy and its minions is to be expected, given the level of dumb and not-my-job that exists today.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 4:29 pm

Letter shows Vatican knew about Nazi death camps despite long denial
By Nicole Winfield
September 17, 2023 — 8.53am

Rome: Newly discovered correspondence suggests that World War II-era Pope Pius XII had detailed information from a trusted German Jesuit that up to 6000 Jews and Poles were being gassed each day in German-occupied Poland. The documentation undercuts the Holy See’s argument that it couldn’t verify diplomatic reports of Nazi atrocities to denounce them.

The documentation from the Vatican archives, published this weekend in Italian daily Corriere della Sera, is likely to further fuel the debate about Pius’ legacy and his now-stalled beatification campaign. Historians have long been divided about Pius’ record, with supporters insisting he used quiet diplomacy to save Jewish lives while critics say he remained silent as the Holocaust raged.

Corriere is reproducing a letter dated December 14, 1942 from the German Jesuit priest to Pius’ secretary which is contained in an upcoming book about the newly opened files of Pius’ pontificate by Giovanni Coco, a researcher and archivist in the Vatican’s Apostolic Archives.

Coco told Corriere that the letter was significant because it represented detailed correspondence about the Nazi extermination of Jews, including in ovens, from an informed church source in Germany who was part of the Catholic anti-Hitler resistance that was able to get otherwise secret information to the Vatican.

The letter from the priest, the Reverend Lothar Koenig, to Pius’ secretary, a fellow German Jesuit named the Reverend Robert Leiber, is dated December 14, 1942. Written in German, the letter addresses Leiber as “Dear friend,” and goes on to report that the Nazis were killing up to 6000 Jews and Poles daily from Rava Ruska, a town in pre-war Poland that is today located in Ukraine, and transporting them to the Belzec death camp.

According to the Belzec Memorial that opened in 2004, a total of 500,000 Jews perished at the camp. The memorial’s website reports that as many as 3500 Jews from Rava Ruska had already been sent to Belzec earlier in 1942 and that from December 7 to December 11, the city’s Jewish ghetto was liquidated. “About 3000 to 5000 people were shot on the spot and 2000 to 5000 people were taken to Be??ec,” the website says.

John H.
John H.
September 17, 2023 4:32 pm

JC
Sep 17, 2023 4:12 PM
You’re punting this problem to the US.

Yes

If the parallels are as you say, you should have some idea/s about how repeating the disaster in Ukraine could be avoided in Taiwan.

It’s too hard to get rid of Xi from the outside.

It’s not as if watching what has happened in Ukraine over the last 16 months should fill the people of Taiwan with confidence in the US.

Why, because Russia is preforming like a superpower.

Don’t digress.

If China attacked Taiwan who would you support?

Apples and oranges. The US can’t access the Black Sea. There has been a long preparation for a potential Taiwan conflict. There are many US bases in the Philippines with more planned. Japan will enter the fray. Spirit Bombers from Guam will have a huge impact. The USA has 1000 km cruise missiles, including stealth cruise missiles, that can delivered in huge quantities from cargo planes. Invading Taiwan is immensely much more difficult than Ukraine. F 22s are rotating through Okinawa. The USA already has 100s of F-35s and pity any 4th gen aircraft up against both of those aircraft. US submarines are very superior to Chinese subs. If there is an attempted invasion the strait will be a killing field because so many ships creates a target rich environment. There will be huge losses on both sides. It will be a very quick war because the losses will be so high all parties will soon be exhausted but China will come off much worse.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:34 pm

calli
Sep 17, 2023 4:26 PM

It was a DEW attack, calli.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 4:34 pm

‘Segregated’ bars for the indig. Holes cut in walls to serve them. Small, concrete-floored bars with tables bolted down, as opposed to nice bars with carpet and pool tables.

Someone said upthread that it was (and is) learned behaviour. Unfortunately, that’s true – it was 50 years ago, and it is now.

Ever since the much-vaunted Wave Hill (Lajamanu) walk-off in 1967, there has been a gradual removal of self-respect from the indig, particularly the fullbloods. They didn’t do it to themselves, it was done to them by the emergent and now flourishing indigenous industry.

Average whitey did not demolish the ‘nice’ bars spoken of upthread, compelling publicans to renovate and cater for both rather than refuse to serve indig at all, thus being branded racist.

Average whitey did not, and do not arrive en masse to indig communities and somehow destroy hundreds of expensive, weather-resistant airconditioned homes with satellite dishes on them, which the occupants received for free.

It is the lack of self-respect, and lack of respect for everything given to them – handed out courtesy of the $33 billion average taxpayers are stung for each and every year.

As a very recent example – a fully functioning but disused miners’ accommodation facility in Darwin was used to house over 800 indig from Lajamanu and Kalkarindji, flooded out by an ex-cyclone and evacuated.

Two months, they were there. Ten million dollars in damage, they caused. Almost every window broken, carpets ripped up, holes in plaster everywhere you looked.

At first the NT Government said ‘nothing to see here’, then they said ‘there is no damage’, followed by ‘there was a little bit of damage’, and finally they said ‘well, there was damage but it’s nobody’s fault, really’.

That’s what the narrative comes down to. It’s nobody’s fault. An ‘advisory body to Parliament’ has not, does not and will never fix that.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2023 4:34 pm

Anybody heard that Warren Mundine may be replacing Marise Payne in the Senate?

The ruling Photios wing of the SFLs will die in a ditch to prevent that happening.

The Photios wing considers Mundine a dangerous radical who could cause a breakout of democracy within the party that could lead to SFL supporters believing their MPs could deliver what the base has voted for.

That will never be allowed to happen in the SFL party.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 4:35 pm

So the only way of avoiding a conflict over Taiwan is removing Xi. It seems that the analysis always revolves around individuals. It’s not as if the ‘one China policy’ only emerged with Xi.

One China , two systems is the actual policy. Xi appears to call the shots, but if you want to include the rest of his honchos to be hypothetically removed, then be my guest. However, Xi seems to be doing a good job of disappearing them himself. 🙂

At the moment, Taiwan, but I’m not watching events there that closely.

Xi is making physical threats almost everyday.

The only thing that worries me are Westerners itching for something to happen around there rather than keeping there noses out of it.

It’s modern democracy of about 20 plus million people. No, westerners should not keep their noses out of it. Having said that, you can’t support Taiwan with your current pro-Putin position as it doesn’t make any sense at all. In any event Russia and China are now close allies, so going against China would place in a position to be also against Putin and we can’t have that.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 4:38 pm

It was a DEW attack, calli.

Said it before. Will say it again.

The people enthusiastically spruiking ‘how come some stuff was burnt (fried!) and stuff next that that stuff wasn’t’ have no practical experience of how fire works when combined with terrain, wind and when it creates its own climate.

They are non-swimmers with no experience in life or the things that make it up. Combine that with a desperate fervour to believe, and you get Madam Zeeee, the Expose and podcasts from flogs who have identified the aforementioned people are gullible enough to part with cash to have their egos massaged.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 4:39 pm

Apples and oranges.

No really, both are land disputes and the desire to control their nearest neighbors where possible.

Lastly, you need to be reminded the US has European bases close to Russia too.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:41 pm

Knuckle Dragger
Sep 17, 2023 4:38 PM

You are a MSM consuming whore.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 4:44 pm

You are a MSM consuming whore.

Bloody hell, Stevie T. Have a Swan Lager and calm down a bit.

Then try and find a list of the 2000 children you said were missing in Hawaii.

Bourne1879
Bourne1879
September 17, 2023 4:44 pm

After today’s performance on Insiders I am having doubts about Warren Mundine.

Certainly caused confusion, judging by online, comments, about where he stands. I think most No voters would be against treaties.

Is he trying to get the support of the Matt Kean, Bragg and Falinski types?

Either way I am confused by what he stands for.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 4:51 pm

Knuckle Dragger
Sep 17, 2023 4:44 PM

No. Go get your booster shot, retard!

John H.
John H.
September 17, 2023 4:56 pm

JC
Sep 17, 2023 4:39 PM
Apples and oranges.

No really, both are land disputes and the desire to control their nearest neighbors where possible.

Lastly, you need to be reminded the US has European bases close to Russia too.

Militarily absolutely. The support for Ukraine is a training exercise for NATO. The big problem for China is not only attacking Taiwan it has to deal with the USA, the Philippines, and Japan. Do your homework JC. Do you even know the difference between an Amraam 120 C and D? Are you aware that the USA already has superior air to air missiles to the Amraam? That the J20 is not an air superiority fighter, it is not a stealth fighter(canards FFS!), but is designed to take out support aircraft(tankers and AWACs)?

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 4:59 pm

Something that also makes me wonder…what is the name of the “church” group that is allowed to sift through the rubble while owners are barred from entering?

Has the entity got a name yet? Most churches are easily identifiable and members can be approached for comment. This seems to be one of those nebulous statements that sound truthy but simply don’t stack up in the real world.

If anyone has a name – denomination, parish, whatever – I’d be a lot less suspicious.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 5:02 pm

John H

Why are you consulting the discussion with armament superiority when you agreed with my comment that the Ukraine and Taiwan are land disputes? My original comment was that these two problem share almost identical parallels and if someone is supporting Russia’s attempt in annexing Ukraine (that’s what it is) they’re going go have a hard time with the magic trick of then supporting Taiwan if China attacks them.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2023 5:04 pm

My (then) 7 year old granddaughter had quite a different reaction. Her mother told me she fled the gallery screaming!

You can tell it’s good Dud when the vaginas follow you around the room.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 5:04 pm

consulting … Convoluting.

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 5:04 pm

2001 A Space Odyssey on SBS World Movies. Always worth a look. Hard to believe it’s over 50 years old.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 5:05 pm

No.

Go on, Stevie T. You said there were 2000 schoolchildren missing after the Hawaii fires.

There has to be a list. You believe there’s a list, don’t you?

Find the list. Surely Stew Peters would have the list?

Wouldn’t he?

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 5:06 pm

Knuckle Dragger
Sep 17, 2023 4:44 PM

You don’t know your head from arse hole. STFU!

Direct Energy Weapons are fiction? Go watch Sky News. For some reason people think it has merit. It is for sheep in the paddock.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 5:09 pm

Sounds a lot like the position re HK. Still, it’s not just about who is calling the shots but also about the background, the regional strategic situation, etc. The focus on individuals appears to be a way of ignoring these other matters.

Focusing on individuals in this case is very real because Xi is a dictator calling the shots.

I had no idea we have to involve ourselves in conflicts involving modern democracies.

Reminds me of Poland in 39. Churchill didn’t want to intervene.

It makes perfect sense to anyone that isn’t a neocon.

See the above comment about Churchill

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 5:10 pm

Knuckle Dragger
Sep 17, 2023 4:44 PM

Another pathetic comment from you.

D*ckhead.

H B Bear
H B Bear
September 17, 2023 5:10 pm

Again with the sheep. How can I enjoy my word salad like this?

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 5:12 pm

After today’s performance on Insiders I am having doubts about Warren Mundine.

To the best of my knowledge, Warren Mundine has long argued that one group of Aborigines can’t speak on behalf of another, so there will need to be a treaty with each of the “First Nations.”

Chris
Chris
September 17, 2023 5:15 pm

KD, I think we are dealing with an NPC here. A non-player character.
I know we have watched a number of evident real people get crazier and crazier, perhaps seeking affirmation on the Cat as their brilliant exposes are one by one abandoned from lack of confirming data.
Still,this one has been a bit too consistent a pisstake. Its like the persona generator at the FBI electronic surveillance unit has fossilised from lack of human supervision, and sent a ChatGPT Fed to start us planning to swipe a Federal Official’s Parking Space so they can justify their budget, get service heroism awards and validate their prejudices.
Has anyone seen Steve and Ray Epps in the same room?

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 5:17 pm

Direct Energy Weapons are fiction?

No. However, they were not used in events, including but not limited to:

The Alfred R. Murrah building
9/11
The Hawaii bushfires
The 1979 Wayne Harmes fit-up, costing Collingwood the premiership
The Canadian bushfires
The Concorde disaster
Every bushfire and/or rain event in Australia
The finale of Game of Thrones

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 17, 2023 5:18 pm

Knuckles the list got vaporised with the columns 22 years ago. It was a conspiracy only being played out now. Only certain people know the truth and get excited over a big dog going for a walk, you too would know the truth if only you brought cups of coffee for the truth tellers.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 5:20 pm

Hard to believe it’s over 50 years old.

Until it gets to the psychedelia as Bowman flies through the stargate.

On the other hand the serene where Poole and Bowman are eating, sitting right next to each other, but ignoring the other while focused on their own little rectangular screens – hello iPhones and tablets.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 17, 2023 5:22 pm

Ray Epps isn’t real otherwise he’d be sitting in pokey for 30 years.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 5:22 pm

you too would know the truth if only you brought cups of coffee for the truth tellers

This will be my cross to bear.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 17, 2023 5:24 pm

I want more thumbs down.

Rockdoctor
Rockdoctor
September 17, 2023 5:24 pm

Just read Henderson’s take down of the arrogant McClallan who has a thin skin. Noice. Brutal and masterful at the same time.

If the ex justice has any sense he’ll let this through to the keeper. Wanna bet that doesn’t happen though?

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 5:25 pm

Scene. Not serene.

I think Siri is deliberately trying to stop us from thinking about the ascendancy of AI.

It always struck me that the strongest feeling on the ship were those harboured by HAL.

Mind you, on a mission like that, mild autism would be a boon for the flight crew – meticulous attention day after day, and without a desire to become too close to (and therefore risk interpersonal conflict with) the other.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2023 5:25 pm

Regarding “missing” in Hawaii, here is what someone who was actually in Darwin for Cyclone Tracy wrote later:

Dee Slater wrote she was at a gathering at 8am on Christmas Day where a “Civil Defence” spokesman was speaking to a crowd of locals:

…he said that the known death toll was inestimable because bodies were piling up all over Darwin. At 8am over 50 bodies were already lining the long hallway of the main police station in Smith Street alone. The morgue was filled to overflowing…We were then told that all of the post offices across Darwin were now designated morgues (due to their emergency backup power), but unfortunately they, too, were filled to maximum capacity. Bodies were piled up against every wall, and on top of sorting tables at every post office. The numbers were staggering…! He then named five of the closest post offices where they would definitely not take any more bodies. Casuarina, with 60 bodies on their mail sorting table alone, was the sixth.

Later, Slater puts a figure on how many died in total: “inestimable thousands lost their lives to Cyclone Tracy. That is a fact!”

The rumours continue to the present day, as one website in 2011 attested:

I had been told by a friend, a long time resident of the Top End, that her brother had bulldozed into pits, and covered, lots of bodies, and the real death toll was hundreds. The old Darwin was a place people went to drop off the grid, and no-one knew how many aboriginals were camped around the town at the time.

Total bollocks, all of it.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 5:28 pm

I want more thumbs down.

I am nothing if not obliging.

And, GreyRanga, that was thumbs down from here (points to heart) where it counts.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 5:31 pm

her brother had bulldozed into pits, and covered, lots of bodies, and the real death toll was hundreds.

TE:

Total bollocks, all of it.

Yep. It was 1974 in Australia, not 1174 in Syria.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 5:33 pm

Linda Burney, an indigenous woman

Yeah, no. Very brain damaged, but that’s every labore polly.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 5:36 pm

Knuckle Dragger
Sep 17, 2023 5:17 PM
Direct Energy Weapons are fiction?

We know they are real.

Chris
Chris
September 17, 2023 5:36 pm

The 1979 Wayne Harmes fit-up, costing Collingwood the premiership

Now this one might be a problem.
Remember, proving a double negative only needs one counter-example.

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 5:36 pm

The psychedelia journey is as boring as bat poo, ML. Definitely not an enticement to experiment with drergs. Struck me that way the first time I saw it.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 5:37 pm

Let’s have some sad ol’ retirement home wallies, I tells ya!

Oh wait – they’re allegedly in charge 😕

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 5:37 pm

Neither are disputes over land. One is a dispute over the use of Ukraine as a Western bulwark,

In other words, who controls Ukraine.

and the other is a dispute following a formally unresolved civil war.

And who controls the island.

If Taiwan is ever going to mirror Ukraine, it will be if the US tries to turn Taiwan into a Western bulwark.

Of course it is. There’s no possibility that China wants to turn Taiwan into a Chinese bullwark.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 5:39 pm

Its always a repeat of WW2.

Looks that way.

Makka
Makka
September 17, 2023 5:39 pm

If the parallels are as you say,

Zero parallels. A seaborne invasion over 130kms of of open sea against opposing air and sea power has zero parallels with Russia invading across the neighbor’s hundreds of kms land border. It’s a nonsense premise.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 5:43 pm

The psychedelia journey is as boring as bat poo, ML. Definitely not an enticement to experiment with drergs

Well,

there will not be any of that

, Squirette! 😕

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 5:46 pm

Erk. This is the bit where HAL murders the astronaut.

AI is sooooooo wonderful.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 5:50 pm

We know they are real.

Yes. Yes they are real. Like 10mm spanners, which are also real.

However, 10mm spanners are not responsible for every adverse event on the planet. Klaus does not have a secret plan to use 10mm spanners to enslave the normies and use their children for shoe leather while the elites fillet steaks from their bodies and eat them, muah-hahahaha-ing as they go.

GreyRanga
GreyRanga
September 17, 2023 5:51 pm

Thankyou Thankyou, I knew I could rely on Cats, not the other sort of cat.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 5:52 pm

Its always a repeat of WW2

Featuring the eastern front adventures of Wolfgang and Fritz.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 5:56 pm

her brother had bulldozed into pits, and covered, lots of bodies, and the real death toll was hundreds.

Weren’t there similar claims after the Japanese bombing in 1942?

Rabz
September 17, 2023 5:56 pm

Err, time to watch some Hollyweirdettes bouncing around … 🙂

Wally Dalí
Wally Dalí
September 17, 2023 6:01 pm

You say “wally” in a way which makes me uncomfortable, Rabz…

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:05 pm

Some more of that ‘orrible Psychedelia, which causes kiddies to experiment with drergs, Cats 😕

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 6:06 pm

The way HAL tries to “reason” with Dave, appealing to “feelz” reminds me of the coercive tactics of progressives.

Tom
Tom
September 17, 2023 6:08 pm

This is definitely progress. I am watching the AFLW’s Brisbane side thrashing Sydney eight goals to two because it’s better than watching the dross on SBS Food at this time of night.

But I still believe the reason almost no-one watches chicks AFL is because it’s a rubbish TV product.

And, beneath the go-you-gurrrl feminist pretence of it all, hospital emergency departments are full of young females playing footy every Saturday night because their bodies are not designed for collision sports.

Nevertheless, the AFL is committed to chicks’ footy. And I believe it will eventually succeed as a commercial product as girls are introduced to the hand-eye coordination that boys are instinctively trained in.

UPDATE: I’ve now switched over to the replay of this morning’s Sky Outsiders.

Top Ender
Top Ender
September 17, 2023 6:09 pm

Weren’t there similar claims after the Japanese bombing in 1942?

Indeed.

Myth #3: Was the true death toll covered up?

One of the most pervasive suggestions – repeated in the popular press even recently – is that far more than the approximately 250 “officially” counted died.

The suggestion is many hundreds more, even thousands of people died in the two raids of 19 February, rather than the 250 or so established in other histories. Further, hundreds of bodies were disposed of by surreptitious methods, with the identities of the fallen being left unknown, and that this was done with official sanction.

Perhaps it is not surprising that the myth is perpetuated. From early 1942 the accounts of the first attacks were distorted. For example, a sailor of the time reported in his diary: “Eleven of those (ships) seen in the harbour were lost in one raid and 875 merchant seamen found a watery grave”. Instead, there were seven ships immediately lost in the harbour, and two sank over the following days – that has been established with as much certainty as is possible; and around 235 people died. But another soldier noted “We buried at least 300 bodies in one mass grave at Mindil Beach. From my estimation the losses were anywhere from six hundred to one thousand”.

Towards the end of the war a Queensland Senator, Herbert Yeates, visited Darwin. In July 1945 correspondence to Arthur Fadden, then Australian Country Party leader, Yeates wrote: “From the definite and reliable information I obtained whilst at Darwin….I am satisfied that about 1200 people were killed but that includes Merchant and other seamen, such as men from foreign ports. How about you putting this over in the House on my behalf?”

It is easy to see, however illogically, how the fatalities numbers mounted. People in positions of authority made hurried assessments that doubtless were passed on with all the weight of their originators. For example, post-19 February the manager of the Commonwealth Bank wrote to the Governor of the Bank in NSW that: “I can assure you that between 600 and 1000 lives were lost”.

Yet in the very same letter he charts his own progress, and that of his staff, over the hours following the first two raids, during which attacks he ventured no further from the bank than the bombed Post Office about 45 seconds walk away. His afternoon was full of meetings and decision making, during which the bank was closed and its cash together with commercial papers was loaded on trucks. At 0100 hours the day following the raids – that is, some 24 hours after the second raid had ended – he journeyed south down the main highway out of town to Adelaide River and beyond, never to return.

How the manager made his fatality assessment of the casualty numbers is unknown; according to this own accounting he went nowhere near the harbour where bodies were being taken from the water; nowhere near the damaged ships still afloat, nowhere near Mindil Beach – some three miles or five kilometres away, where bodies were being temporarily buried. But doubtless it was the retained wisdom of the Bank staff, repeated to anyone they encountered on their trip south and beyond, that “hundreds” had died in the first raids, and it must be probably that the figure of 600 and beyond was quoted. And these were witnesses who were there; they were people who had “been to see the elephant”, as American Civil War people said of those who had fought in battles: they knew what a mysterious and fabulous experience was – such as seeing a circus elephant, a great experience for a humble village lad – so they must be believed. Thus are myths born.

Variations on this theme have been repeated?in a number of publications. Over the past?few years, perhaps as a result of the increasing publicity this enemy attack – certainly the biggest ever perpetuated against Australia – has received, the suggestions of a higher death count have received increasing prominence.
Even modern fictional accounts of life in the Northern Territory perpetuate the stories. The popular writer Judy Nunn’s novel Territory suggests in a foreword note that: “The true casualty figure is estimated to be in excess of 500.” Roland Perry says in his history book Centre Stage, that as many as 1100 died and were buried in mass graves at Mindil Beach. The fictional 2008 movie Australia didn’t help matters by portraying Japanese forces landing in Darwin, which they never did. The body count in the film was at least unresolved.

Several men who served in the military in the Territory have contributed. For example, one recent account is from Alex Peterson, who served with a medical supply unit slightly south of Darwin. He believes, in contrast to one “official figure” of 243, that: “…the number is higher, simply from the number of corpses he saw floating in the harbour that afternoon.” It must be asked if those bodies were counted, and what total was arrived at. Another claim is from Rex Ruwoldt, who was based at Lee Point during the raids. He says he received a news bulletin from his unit’s Field Headquarters a few days after the 19th. It mentioned “1, 100 deaths” that had been based on “estimates from Army Intelligence.” Ruwoldt is of the opinion that a large number of those killed were part of the “approximately 2, 000 or so itinerant workers in Darwin at the time of the attacks”. However, official reports of the time point out that:

All Aboriginal women and about 20 per cent of Aboriginal men were moved out of the city. Of the Territory’s population of half-caste people, at least 500 women and children were evacuated to southern states. On the morning of 19 February 1942 only 100 adult Aboriginal men remained in the Darwin area: 30 employed by the armed forces, 24 prisoners of Darwin’s Fanny Bay jail, and the rest in woodcutters’ camps on the edge of town. However, a group of 40 half-caste children from the Roman Catholic mission on Melville Island had arrived at Darwin on 15 February and were still in port when the Japanese bombers struck.

Ruwoldt also advised: “Jack Burton the Mayor of Darwin at the time estimated about 900 killed. Army Intelligence estimated about 1100. Official figures about 250. Most of the civilians not counted were buried in two mass graves on Mindil Beach.” Further: “One Padre later the Bishop of Bendigo said “250? I buried more than that myself!”

Ruwoldt says the bodies can be found below the sand at Mindil Beach, near where the casino is today:

“I’ve spoken to the fellas who dug those graves,” he says. “It’s a very traumatic thing for them. They haven’t ever talked to their families about it. They’ve talked to other soldiers like myself. One fella told me, `We dug down to the water level and we stacked the bodies in.’ Another fella said he counted 300 in the first grave – didn’t even look at the second one.”

But analysis confirms that “Jack Burton’ was not the “Mayor of Darwin” on 19 February – there was no position of mayor at the time, although a Territorian of that name had indeed been prominent in local government. Anyway, historian John Bradford notes that Burton kept a record of all the raids throughout the period of bombing from February 1942 to November 1943, and his entry for 19 February stated “Estimate 900 killed on wharf and ships” is well in excess of the official figure. Further: “Apart from his dubious claims re-the number of personnel killed, his credibility as a reliable eyewitness was not exactly enhanced when he claimed three Japanese submarines were sunk in Darwin harbour, one on 8 June 1942, and two more on 9 August 1942. “Inside” the harbour means inside the boom net. No such combat actions are recorded in any of the sources listed in this book, which include many histories of Darwin. and of the histories of the Australian Army and Navy in WWII.” Further, Ruwolt’s “Army Intelligence” documents showing such numbers have not been found.

Interestingly, the “Padre later the Bishop of Bendigo” may well have referred to Chaplain Charles Lawrence Riley, service number VX20306, who during the war was the fourth Bishop of Bendigo from 1938 to 1957; and concurrently Chaplain-General to the AMF from 1942 until 1957. His Service record is open and available on the National Archives of Australia website, or physically in Melbourne under his full name. However, it shows that he served overseas in 1941; then returned to Australia and was given his high clerical rank in the new year. There is no reason to think he was in Darwin in February 1942; indeed, his Record shows he was officially elsewhere.

There are several accounts of bodies being buried on Mindil Beach: none of them attest to religious personnel performing any sort of ceremonies. For example, Bill Dedman recalls:

At about one o’clock….We went around to Mindil Beach, and we worked until eleven o’clock that night [picking] the bodies up…at Mindil Beach, and we were putting them in holes about three foot, or four foot deep, and leaving them there. Of course, that was being controlled by the officers. And then we went ashore. The next day they came down and they arranged for them bodies to be removed…”

Burials occurred near to where death had been met, because as everyone knew then, there were no facilities in Darwin where corpses could be stored. There was on that day only practicality: no morgue attendants to collect the dead, no funeral directors, no bureaucracy to carry out the necessary practicalities – people were starkly realistic, as they had to be. RAAF pilot Kym Bonython noted briefly in his account of the raids that:

At ten o’clock that night, those of us remaining on the base attended a macabre funeral service. By lantern light, the unfortunates who had been killed that day were wrapped in army blankets and rolled into hastily-dug graves on the edge of the airfield.

But it is the inflated accounts of fatality numbers that are the stuff of media attention – because these are controversial. Adelaide historian John Bradford has been told a story by a Ross Dack, who reports he was a member of a burial party that had buried “1,500 people” on Darwin’s Mindil Beach. Dack said that there were lots of bodies which were placed in a large hole dug by a bulldozer. Nobody counted the bodies, which were all black, as they were covered in oil. However, he also expressed the belief to John Bradford that the bodies were later exhumed and relocated to Adelaide River War Cemetery. An officer’s diary quoted from in Rayner supports this story: “Police anticipate about 500 dead. Many are being washed up now and are being buried on the beaches”.

Another story is from a Harry Morgan, who was also in Darwin during the first attacks. In an article carried in The Age newspaper, he suggests that there was a deliberate and official cover–up:

…this officer with a heap of ribbons walked past our captain, ignored him completely, and said to us all: `Keep your bloody mouths shut.’ We didn’t know who he was, we never found out who he was.

We cannot be sure who this officer was, who thought it necessary to wear ceremonial ribbons just after a battle, but he must have been a higher rank than a captain. Why at least a major – a rank important enough to command hundreds of men – should have the strange task of walking around talking to haphazard groups of working soldiers is unknown, but anyone familiar with military operations knows that if you wish to give soldiers a legal and important order, this is not the way to do it. The personnel are gathered together; given the order, and then made to sign to indicate – for later legal action if necessary – they were there and heard and understood it.

Seventy-eight years of age when the article was printed in early 2001, Morgan was said to be “legally blind and living in a retirement village near Bendigo”. He says that he “no longer feels like keeping his mouth shut”, and that the official 243 death toll is part of a cover–up. He suggests over 300 bodies were buried at Mindil Beach?“in a bomb crater” – that would have been an enormous crater – but admits that they could have been “later moved, and reburied in official graves”.

He further alleges – although he does not say whether he observed this – bodies were taken to sea in “barges” and disposed of:

About three days after the bombing they had these barges down there [near the wharf ]. Three of them were piled with bodies – I’d reckon 3–400 bodies at least on those three big barges. They were towed out to sea through the boom defence. They didn’t tell us how far – we’d presume about 15-20 miles – where they were sunk. Nobody knew who they were – they were all colours, races and sizes. Nobody knew where they came from. They were found in little old shanties where they were gathered up. I was there when they were loading them on. I saw it.

The Mindil Beach burials

It does seem that bodies were buried on this beach after the first raids, a sandy strip about a kilometre long inbetween Myilly Point, about three kilometres from Darwin’s Central Business District, and Bullocky Point, where Darwin High School has been established on?the site of what was once Vestey’s Meatworks. Mindil Beach has been built over in recent years, first with the pyramid-styled Darwin Casino, and secondly with an esplanade complete with toilet blocks and substantial amounts of paving to host Darwin’s famous Thursday night Mindil Beach Markets
Aboriginal remains have been found in the area, and it seems that the site was a burying ground for the Larrakeyah aboriginal tribe. But none of the excavations over the years have uncovered mass WWII graves. Indeed, modern techniques with ground penetrating radar are capable of analysis which could easily reveal mass graves around Darwin: proponents of such theories have the duty to back up their upsetting allegations with analysis.

However, while the possibility that some bodies from the 19 February attacks were buried on the beaches seems positive, but there is also evidence that this was a temporary means of coping with the reality of the situation, albeit temporarily, and these remains were soon moved to a more respectful location. Author Robert Rayner, who penned that encyclopedic book The Army and the Defence of Darwin Fortress, interviewed 14th Anti-Aircraft unit members who recalled burying bodies on Mindil Beach, but he notes that these remains were later recovered for re-interment in more suitable cemeteries such as Adelaide River and sites dedicated to American personnel.

So Mindil Beach was a temporary means of coping with the reality of the situation, albeit for a short while, for Darwin, a small town, lacked the refrigerated mortuaries in which to place the dead. The human remains were soon disinterred and moved to a more respectful location. Author Robert Rayner, in The Army and the Defence of Darwin Fortress, interviewed 14th Anti-Aircraft unit members who recalled burying bodies on Mindil Beach. However, he notes that these remains were later recovered for re-interment in more suitable cemeteries such as Adelaide River and sites dedicated to American personnel. Colin Price, who was serving on board the corvette HMAS Katoomba at the time, confirms the burial of bodies recovered from the harbour and taken to the beach: “On the 19th-20th-21st of February dozens of bodies were floating in the harbour. Manunda lowered one of her boats and went from corpse to corpse using ropes to attach them together and dragging them to the beach where they were buried.”

So any suggestion of mass burials seems to have a basis in fact, but it was only a temporary measure. There would seem to be from modern construction activities no bodies in the Mindil Beach area except for in 1992 some local aboriginal remains.

Burials at Sea?

This suggestion necessitates involvement with the Royal Australian Navy, given that they were in control of harbour craft at the time. If barges were used then they would need to be towed by a powered vessel, and that vessel’s log would show at least the movement concerned, even if the operation was secret. There were indeed a myriad of ships that could have performed such a task. However, the ship’s company concerned could hardly have not participated, and such an operation as the disposal of hundreds of bodies would have become a controversial event. It is unlikely that such an action would have remained secret over the years – what would be the reason for the scores employed in the covert burial parties to keep the secret? Where too are the notes in the vessels’ Record of Proceedings – all available in archives now, even at the highest Most Secret level – to indicate vessels had this task?

Interviews with two RAN sailors who were in Darwin on the day do not confirm the story. Frank Marsh was on board the corvette HMAS Deloraine, and took part in the ship’s defence and also its duties later. He confirms he “did not see hundreds of bodies being transported by barge”. Nor?did his shipmate Clarrie Rogan, who recalls the ship raised steam the following day and went around vessels in need of help. The corvette then was refueled at the Darwin wharf. There he did see: “…perhaps 30-40 bodies in sheets. We were under the impression they came from (the hospital ship) Manunda”.

Rogan also notes: “We would have known about such a movement of bodies out to sea… any seaman would know that disposing of bodies like that wouldn’t make sense – they would come back in on the tide and they wouldn’t have had time to weight them.”

It may well be that Harry Morgan saw the bodies from Manunda. Such a sight would be shocking, and indelibly etched upon one’s memory. The number of bodies sighted may well have created such an impression that Morgan thought there were many more than there were in actuality. Indeed, historian Robert Rayner believes this is the cause of many of these stories: “…what they saw was indeed a lot of bodies which, to the young mind, stunned by the events in which they were all participating for the first time, might well have seemed larger than it in fact was”.
One important factor puts the seal on any suggestion of bodies being disposed of outside the harbour. The previous month Allied naval forces had been extremely busy off Darwin: fighting a squadron of Japanese submarines. This was no mere depth-charging by fearful sailors: one of the submarines had surfaced; been almost rammed, and been depth-charged at point blank range. She remains there sunk to this day. The last action any naval ship would have undertaken was a voyage where a ship was dangerously exposed to attack, on a “cargo run” outside and back to the shelter of the harbour’s boom net and guns.

Just because someone – even a someone with the indelible veracity of having served in the armed force on the day – says they saw something does not mean they did. During the action to sink the Japanese submarine outside Darwin the previous month Deloraine crewmember Stan Hale, loading depth charges on the ship’s quarterdeck, said he and his crewmate Fred Savage saw a periscope: “…about 30 ft. away in line with the port thrower….we saw it turn towards us. When it focused on the ship the periscope started to go down just as the buzzer sounded to drop a depth charge.” The trouble with this account is that the other three submarines – by their own logs – were many kilometres away, and searched records show no other submarines nearby. What they saw was probably a floating log, or a crocodile.

During the Darwin raids one witness attested to newspapers that he saw Japanese aircraft with British and American markings on them. Another said he saw “swastika markings” on an attacker. Does this mean that this was so? The examination of the raids since then does not suggest that this is true. Should we place credibility on those reports? People make mistakes; hear accounts which become part of their own memories; think wishfully, or sometimes lie for various reasons. (Author Lewis, in his own military career, was involved in enemy rocket strikes in Baghdad; in one he would have said about 15-20 people were killed in it, if asked immediately afterwards, from what he saw – the eventual reality was three KIA.)

If indeed there were many extra fatalities resulting from the first raid, where did they come from? The raid chronology is quite precise: 71 high level “Kate” bombers hit the wharf and town infrastructure; then left; 81 “Val” divebombers hit the ships, flying around for a few attempts to ensure their single bomb each was not wasted – and then they left. The 36 Zero fighters left with their respective bomber squadrons. Each aircraft was armed with machineguns, and they would have directed fire at likely targets, although the amount of ammunition they had was quite limited: Zeroes for example had less than 30 seconds of ordnance, and all would have retained some ammunition in case of enemy interception on the way home.

The fatalities resulting from each ship was well documented. The biggest loss of life was from the destroyer USS Peary – 88 personnel, sometimes given as a few more. The ten other ships were well accounted for in their respective logbooks and subsequent reports.

On shore the Post Office was almost completely destroyed, but the civilian casualties were known to townspeople and those who had died tallied soon enough. Buildings such as the Police Barracks were also destroyed, although not to the extent that survivors were unable to give a good accounting. The town in fact was not heavily damaged in warfare terminology, although to those inexperienced in military attacks it certainly seemed devastating enough. Darwin today for example possesses many examples of buildings which were right in the target zone and yet survived albeit heavily damaged: the Bank of New South Wales, the Commonwealth Bank, the Victoria Hotel, Cashman’s Newsagency, and so on. The documented casualties were relatively light: the Post Office was the main point of loss, but less than 10 other townspeople are listed as killed.

This therefore means that “several hundred more” casualties must have come from somewhere else. But what buildings – damage known and assessed – and what ships: from which of the nine sunk of the approximately 65 in the harbour, and another two outside, can they be? The extra casualties must have come from somewhere? It is not good enough to say that they merely existed, and were “lost’ on the day. In fact Darwin’s personnel was more accounted for than ever before or probably since on that particular day.

On the grounds of logic alone the suggestion of an “Official Cover–Up” must fail. Where is the motive for the armed forces concealing an enormous number of deaths? There was limited reporting in the immediate days after the raids, so morale had already been less damaged.

To give a concrete example, for the mass and secret disposal of bodies to have occurred would have taken scores of defence members, and none have come forward over the years to make this admission. Neither the officers and non-commissioned officers who would have had necessarily to oversee such work, nor the sailors, soldiers and airmen who would have carried out the traumatic physical labour have appeared. Surely if this had happened, these people would have stepped forward rather than carry their secret to the grave, human nature seeking closure – to use a modern term – of such troubling event. Are we to presume they were given some order so terrible in its consequences none will reveal it? This is not credible. It is furthermore insulting to the honour of the Services to suggest many hundreds of its members knew of such dastardly practices and covered them up.

On the grounds of logic alone any idea of a cover-up must fail. Where is the motive for the armed forces concealing an enormous number of deaths? The forces and government of the day had already been successful in their minimisation of the raids’ impact, with many southern newspapers reporting far less than the truth in the days afterwards; an act of media control that many governments exercise in war to lessen the impact on public morale.

Furthermore, to suggest an “official” cover-up is to belie the reality of military operations. Even in war-time administrative procedures are followed, and there has been no paperwork uncovered to show such a claim can be substantiated. To suggest that the lack of such paperwork is proof itself of secrecy is the stuff of Roswell flying saucer theorists: lack of evidence does not in itself constitute evidence. Dr Peter Stanley, the Australian War Memorial’s Principal Historian, noted in a public talk of 2002:

Darwin has attracted many myths, not the least being that news of it was suppressed. It was certainly diminished. The following day news reports put the death toll at 17, but word of the raids on Darwin was never suppressed, not least because it supported the Curtin government’s desire to mobilize Australians into working, fighting or saving by frightening them about what could happen.

If thousands of people died as is claimed in?the Darwin raids, where are the many more thousands of relatives who would have followed up the losses after the war? To claim that some 700 dead were itinerants who provoked no inquiries as to their loss seems a casual dismissal: aboriginals who died in the raids were indeed counted and treated respectfully: Daisy Martin, who died at the Administrator’s Residence, is interred in Adelaide River; one of those. Aboriginals in the Top End place great store by their kinship networks, and the loss of many members would be remembered by their families today.

While there is certainly evidence that bodies were indeed buried in temporary mass graves, the list of those fallen was made soon afterwards with reasonable accuracy. It might even be admitted that one or two wanderers were killed, but not many hundreds. In over 40 years of operation the Darwin Military Museum?– today’s most obvious source of information about the raids – report no inquirers researching mysterious disappearances

From Carrier Attack (Avonmore)

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 6:10 pm

You want psychedelic? Look no further.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:10 pm

You say “Wallee” in a way which makes me uncomfortable

err, is there any other way to pronounce it, Squire?

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:13 pm

calli – you are out of time, baybee …

cohenite
September 17, 2023 6:16 pm

Bourne1879
Sep 17, 2023 4:44 PM
After today’s performance on Insiders I am having doubts about Warren Mundine.

Yes, that’s very left field. S.61 of the Constitution is very plain. Only a sovereign nation can have a treaty with another sovereign nation . Mundine’s point about the screech negating the fact that there are hundreds of mobs which often hate each other and therefore cannot be represented by a centralised screech run by c.nts like birney, langton and the punk pearson is a good one. But to then say each of those mobs, and you would have to be on serious amounts of LSD to say each of those mobs is a sovereign nation, deserves to be treated as a sovereign nation with each of them having their own treaty with the fu.king government is insane. He must be taking the piss.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 6:22 pm

Myth #3: Was the true death toll covered up?

Thank you, Top Ender.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:26 pm

We can remember the bright side of midnight

First taking hearts and then our last breath away …

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:34 pm

You said you’d stand by your man …
Tell me something I don’t understand
You said you love me …
But that’s a lie … 😕

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 6:36 pm

The way HAL tries to “reason” with Dave, appealing to “feelz” reminds me of the coercive tactics of progressives.

Daisy, Daisy,
Give me your answer do…

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:42 pm

Look out for the Skin Deep, Cats.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 6:46 pm

you are out of time, baybee

Paul Weller. Cool. He’s one of those guys with a memorable voice, like Bon Scott and Tom Waits. I haven’t listened to as much of his stuff that I should. I think Mark Seymour is pretty damn fine in that respect too, so this:

Hunters & Collectors – Do You See What I See? (1988)

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:46 pm
John H.
John H.
September 17, 2023 6:47 pm

dover0beach
Sep 17, 2023 4:24 PM
It’s too hard to get rid of Xi from the outside.

So the only way of avoiding a conflict over Taiwan is removing Xi. It seems that the analysis always revolves around individuals. It’s not as if the ‘one China policy’ only emerged with Xi.

Why, because Russia is preforming like a superpower.

Any other country, aside from China, would have already lost given the economic and military power arrayed against it.

Don’t digress.

I’m not.

If China attacked Taiwan who would you support?

At the moment, Taiwan, but I’m not watching events there that closely. The only thing that worries me are Westerners itching for something to happen around there rather than keeping there noses out of it.

Xi is the problem. The internal situation in China will hopefully keep him preoccupied. Many analysts are arguing an invasion won’t happen or if it does it will be a disaster for all concerned.

I too am worried about the hawks in the USA who keep beating that drum. They must be clones of Ed Teller. The MSM here makes me furious at times because it is always war war war! It would help if the rhetoric was toned down. If China does attempt an invasion I think the USA, Japan, and probably NATO, will respond. The big problem for China is that it takes months to prepare for an invasion and there will be no hiding that. Another big problem for China is that they have never fought a major modern war whereas USA has decades of experience in “saving” other countries through military intervention. It is probable China will strategically stumble.

Without a response China will be emboldened too much and encourage further expansion. It will also turn Xi into a god like figure, if he is not that already. China needs total domination of the South China Sea not just for security purposes but for economic and resource purposes. China stands to lose too much. Not just in war losses but every nation in the region and many around the world will seek to punish it in every possible way. But DB, Humans not Vulcans, Xi may go berserker on this. Hopefully someone is planning for him to have an accident. Recently another
Chinese minister has disappeared. I wonder how long Xi can keep getting away with that but then Stalin etc etc .

Rabz
September 17, 2023 6:50 pm

Red red wine
Goes to my head …

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 6:52 pm

Do androids dream of this?

The Bureau – Only For Sheep (1981)

H/t to Wolfman for his recent take on Bladerunner.

Black Ball
Black Ball
September 17, 2023 6:57 pm

Excellent comments 4.34pm Knuckle Dragger.
Thunderous applause.

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 6:59 pm

Heh, Bruce. My comment on AI ran naturally to Azimov and those thereafter.

Looking right now at an upgrade that converts low res photos to something hi res using AI and a graphics chip. Useful if you’ve inadvertently set the camera on “small”.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 7:01 pm

Hunters & Collectors

Head above water

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 7:03 pm

Is the site running slow or is it our gold plated Port Stephens NBN?

Rabz
September 17, 2023 7:05 pm

Hunters & Collectors

Mark Seymour – an Ozzie R&R legend. 🙂

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 7:06 pm

I think what I dread most about the prospect of WW3 is that the soundtrack is going to be shit.

WW1 was pretty bad – music hall ditties and whatnot. A Monopoly board and some blokes called ‘Bertie’.

It is amazing they went ahead with WW2

But, against likelihood, and like The Godfather, the sequel was better than the original. American swing and German classical – especially Beethoven – brilliant!

The Korean War had such a crappy soundtrack I think the Americans only built a memorial in the 90’s.

Vietnam was like hippies in general, telling you how cool they were. But as those people faded, so did their music. And no one plays that war any more.

A war in the late 80’s/early 90’s was an opportunity missed.

But now? It would be a human tragedy.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 7:11 pm

The unofficial Ozzie Anthem:

You will throw your arms around me … 🙂

Black Ball
Black Ball
September 17, 2023 7:12 pm

That housing problem not limited to the Northern Territory either.
Any place where there was a mission that had housing. Balranald, Robinvale, Moulamein, Moonacullah outside of Deniliquin. Cummeragunga across the river from Barmah. All basically destroyed by the younger tennants who saw these houses as a roof over the head to drink piss and blue.
As you rightly pointed out Dragger, no self respect means no respect for your own shit, because you know that whitey will pick up the tab.
Cummera is where the devil walks now. Been there when I was a boy and now it’s a totally different feel.

Carpe Jugulum
Carpe Jugulum
September 17, 2023 7:15 pm

Is the site running slow or is it our gold plated Port Stephens NBN?

I’m on wifi that runs faster than NBN and it is lagging here.

Bourne1879
Bourne1879
September 17, 2023 7:19 pm

Warren Mundine about to come on Sky.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
September 17, 2023 7:20 pm

I’m on wifi that runs faster than NBN and it is lagging here.

So…it’s racism!

Thomas Mann authored an oft-quoted quote “everything is political”.

Well, these days everything political is racial, so…

Bourne1879
Bourne1879
September 17, 2023 7:21 pm

Mundine about to be on Sky.

Farmer Gez
Farmer Gez
September 17, 2023 7:23 pm

Hunters & Collectors.
Not on my list, then or now.
Throw in Powderfinger as well.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 7:23 pm

As you rightly pointed out Dragger, no self respect means no respect for your own shit, because you know that whitey will pick up the tab.

I’ve heard it said that “if whitefella wants us to live in whitefella houses, it’s up to whitefella to look after those houses.”

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 7:28 pm

Head above water

Rabz – A ridiculously good track, except all the versions I can find are like they’ve been recorded in the bottom of a barrel. I don’t have the track on CD but I can recall viscerally the wonderful treble and bass. YouTube gives me the irrits sometimes.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 7:35 pm

A li’l taut tummied Ozzie brunette – she’s the Sun in our eyes … 🙂

Indolent
Indolent
September 17, 2023 7:38 pm

Andrew Bridgen, someone I hold in the highest esteem, drawing the comparisons and showing the utter disregard for human welfare, then as now.

Thalidomaide; The Untold Story

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 7:41 pm

Hunters & Collectors.
Not on my list, then or now.

Hunters and Collectors – Talking To A Stranger (1982)

They’ve been an excellent Aussie band for a long time.

cohenite
September 17, 2023 7:43 pm

A gender adventure.

These people are weird.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 7:49 pm

More Aussie rock from 1982…

Rose Tattoo – We Can’t Be Beaten (1982)

He’s virtuous.

Angry Anderson says NO to Albanese’s UN Voice (17 Sep)

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2023 7:51 pm

John H

Another big problem for China is that they have never fought a major modern war whereas USA has decades of experience in “saving” other countries through military intervention. It is probable China will strategically stumble.

Their 1979 invasion of North Vietnam was a disaster, tens of thousands of casualties, and the Regular NVA didn’t have to intervene in force to assist the regional forces.

Boambee John
Boambee John
September 17, 2023 7:56 pm

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Sep 17, 2023 7:23 PM
As you rightly pointed out Dragger, no self respect means no respect for your own shit, because you know that whitey will pick up the tab.

I’ve heard it said that “if whitefella wants us to live in whitefella houses, it’s up to whitefella to look after those houses.”

I would be quite happy for them to live in “Traditional” wurlies, or even “Pascoe” farmhouses.

Indeed, this should be compulsory for the selected members of the “Voice”.

Black Ball
Black Ball
September 17, 2023 7:57 pm

So Bruce O Newk, will Angry Anderson allow the no campaign use of that song? A question for the ages, er, next couple of weeks.

Black Ball
Black Ball
September 17, 2023 8:01 pm

I would be quite happy for them to live in “Traditional” wurlies, or even “Pascoe” farmhouses.

Indeed, this should be compulsory for the selected members of the “Voice”.

Yes if they want to cleanse themselves of colonialism (whatever it means in their minds) then they must alleviate themselves from the taxpayer sinecures they so heartily suckle upon.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 8:01 pm

I would be quite happy for them to live in “Traditional” wurlies, or even “Pascoe” farmhouses.

Excellent idea – the “young warriors” wouldn’t have the pass time of throwing rocks at solar panels or star pickets at the air conditioning units.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 8:05 pm

“Dark Emu Exposed” have run a story on how a certain “proud Cobble Cobble Woman”
bases her claim to Aboriginal status on one of eight great grandparents being Aboriginal.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 8:09 pm

So Bruce O Newk, will Angry Anderson allow the no campaign use of that song?

That’d be nice. We Can’t Be Beaten may be accurate but not especially helpful… 😀

If I had to choose…

Rose Tattoo – Get It Right (1986)

I bet you thought you had us beaten
I bet you thought you had it made
I’m here today giving you the warning
I’m gonna shake it up
Turn it round
Got to get it right

You had you’re chance now we’re taking over
Cause we want the changes now
Living answers to the questions
Gonna call it people power

CHORUS
Hey-got to get it right
Turn it round
Got to get it right
Ya listenin’, got to get it right

Anthem!

Rabz
September 17, 2023 8:18 pm

😕

calli
calli
September 17, 2023 8:20 pm

Erk. Just saw a lesbian chewing gum ad.

I’m sold. 🙁

Rabz
September 17, 2023 8:24 pm
JC
JC
September 17, 2023 8:26 pm

Makka
Sep 17, 2023 5:39 PM

If the parallels are as you say,

Zero parallels. A seaborne invasion over 130kms of of open sea against opposing air and sea power has zero parallels with Russia invading across the neighbor’s hundreds of kms land border. It’s a nonsense premise.

Nakkas, what’s a nonsense premise is the you can hold up a two figure IQ. We’re talking about something that not related to how a military adventure is conducted over water or over land. Remain silent.

cohenite
September 17, 2023 8:26 pm

More titles for the jaded:

Come Play With Me: Marta Benson was rich, alluring, over-sexed and bored – extremely bored. Until she invented a titillating new diversion that involved half the town… the male half!

In Conference With the Boss; Robin was hip and realised she was hired for her alluring looks and not her typing skills. And although she was inexperienced she knew she would respond to her boss’s play for her. This is the penetrating story of what happened when Robin’s most exciting expectations were fulfilled!

24 Hours to Kill: sometimes death wears the face of a trigger happy punk; but in this case its face was of a young nubile girl with ideas too bad for her own good.

Bachelor Pad: his apartment house was a boiling pot of lustful women: a nymphomanic landlady, a married slut, a weird eyed lesso and one cool long legged sexy chick he couldn’t have.

miltonf
miltonf
September 17, 2023 8:29 pm

Modern big business practice seems to be insulting your customers. The website of my bank features wimmin only. I’ve complained- I wonder what the response will be.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 8:32 pm

Rock ‘n’ Roll!

You’ve given me terrible agoraphobia Rabz.
It hurts.

Vertigo (2004)

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 8:33 pm

Mundine and treaties – from the Oz

JEB
47 minutes ago
You need to watch Amanda Stoker’s interview with Mundine on SkyNews, he gives context about his Treaty view and it’s got nothing at all to do with the idea of Treaty that Mayo & Thorpe have…so doubters and lefties get back in your box!

Dunny Brush
Dunny Brush
September 17, 2023 8:41 pm

Yes rallies getting glowing coverage from usual outlets. Numbers – inflated as they likely are – seem a little underwhelming for a grass roots wave……

Alamak!
September 17, 2023 8:42 pm

Hunters and Collectors (could be) singing about the current bunch of Labor flogs:

When the river runs dry …

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 8:45 pm

It was a beautiful day at the Cafe. Sunny and wonderful! I got a second noisy chick to accept food from my hand. Only one more to go from the latest batch,

Beautiful Day (2000)

Rabz
September 17, 2023 8:47 pm
Rabz
September 17, 2023 9:02 pm
Rabz
September 17, 2023 9:06 pm
Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 9:07 pm
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 9:13 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sfzWio0E0

Warren Mundine interviewed on Sky News.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 9:16 pm

Speakin’ of chicks

Hat tip from me squire, She’s awesome. Whoa!

Rabz
September 17, 2023 9:17 pm

Blonde Chick:

Heaven or Las Vegas

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 9:20 pm

She’s got the voice. A rare gift.

“Teardrop” – Massive Attack cover by Ashen Ringlets (2021)

Rabz
September 17, 2023 9:22 pm
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
September 17, 2023 9:26 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDik61GZkcI

Geoffrey Blainey and Warren Mundine on the subject of Bruce Pascoe, and “Dark Emu.”

Snork, snork!

Black Ball
Black Ball
September 17, 2023 9:28 pm
Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 9:34 pm
Rabz
September 17, 2023 9:38 pm
Louis Litt
Louis Litt
September 17, 2023 9:43 pm

https://youtu.be/GFZvfiJWYLM?si=uOHuJXP-t7uerSZH

Rabz this real heavy man heavier than u2 man

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 9:45 pm

The Church – Under The Milky Way

Bugger that’s good. Only one answer to it…

Icehouse – Icehouse (live)

Makka
Makka
September 17, 2023 9:53 pm

You still have no parallel sfb.The bluff and bluster isn’t working. So better you stfu and not showcase your ignorance. Can’t do better than your sock? Lol.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 9:54 pm

dover0beach
Sep 17, 2023 7:00 PM

In other words, who controls Ukraine.

Avoided if it remained neutral.

It always was, but Russia doesn’t like a neutral Ukraine, Putin wants to control it and have his own puppet running he show.

And who controls the island.

China vs US?

The US doesn’t control the island. The US has no intention of controlling the island. Never has and never will. The most benign superpower in world history and all you do is rag on the US.

Of course it is. There’s no possibility that China wants to turn Taiwan into a Chinese bullwark.

I’m not sure Taiwan could be a bulwark for China.

About equal in terms of what Russia wants to do with Ukraine. Control it! I can’t believe you think Ukraine’s worth is to act as a “buffer” for the Russians. In other words, Ukraine to become simply an artillery bog. Ukrainian people would really love to be a buffer for the orcs.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 9:56 pm

Quenthland news (the Courier-Mail):

The wife of a man who suffered stab wounds in a violent Gold Coast neighbourhood fight overnight claims the wild incident followed a running feud relating to pets.

Ah. That old chestnut.

Police were called to a home in a northern Gold Coast neighbourhood just after 11pm on Saturday, quickly declaring a crime scene.

Three men, all believed to be involved in the fracas, are receiving treatment at Gold Coast University Hospital.

This better involve an ocelot.

It is unclear what role each played in the incident. One of the men, in his 50s underwent emergency surgery on Sunday afternoon for a stab wound to his chest and a collapsed lung.

A second man in his 60s has stab wounds to his back, while a third person is being treated for serious head injuries after he was allegedly struck with a baseball bat.

An extremely valuable ocelot.

The wife of the man who underwent emergency surgery told the Bulletin that tensions in the neighbourhood had been simmering for a number of weeks.

“Our dog apparently clambered their cat in our backyard. Then all of a sudden they’re blaming (the) dog for killing the cat,” she said, referring to the dispute between neighbours.

Sensational. I have no idea why people would blame a dog – and/or the owners of said dog – for killing a cat in the dog’s own backyard, but it is Quenthland after all. A neighbour:

“There was a lot of banging and crashing for a few minutes” they said.

“I didn’t think much of it and then with all of the flashing lights I came out and saw a pile of clothes in the corner of the front yard and one of them was yelling ‘you killed me cat’ or something like that”.

A large splatter on the wooden fence and pool of blood mark where the violent struggle came to an end.

Brilliant. ‘Ya killed me cat ya caaaarnt.’

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 10:01 pm

Crikkit. Straya really deserve to be flogged mercilessly even more by the saffies in the one day series.

Could have, should have had them all done for 250ish. Instead, 24 off the last over – from a number 10 at that – got them to 315.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 10:01 pm

It is a parallel, you ignorant peon. There was no discussion about a land or sea based invasion. The comments were about how both those dictatorships are eyeing off Ukraine and Taiwan and the reasons why both are obviously similar. Stick to hi-hi wages, you lightweight simpleton.

Rabz
September 17, 2023 10:06 pm

It is unclear what role each played in the incident. One of the men, in his 50s underwent emergency surgery on Sunday afternoon for a stab wound to his chest and a collapsed lung.
A second man in his 60s has stab wounds to his back, while a third person is being treated for serious head injuries after he was allegedly struck with a baseball bat.

Bloodee Yes voters, I tells ya!

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 17, 2023 10:08 pm

Roy Keane remembers

That cannot be left unchallenged!

What nationality is Les Murray? (1995)

Salvatore, Iron Publican
September 17, 2023 10:14 pm

Knuckle Dragger Sep 17, 2023 9:56 PM
Quenthland news (the Courier-Mail):

Apropos a recent chapter you posted in this series, where a chap was bitten by a snake & died on the scene, while in the act of removing/attempting to remove said snake from around a mate’s ankle.

Turns out the cause of death is unlikely to have been snakebite.

The episode gives me the willies just thinking about it. Most everybody I know has had a similar close brush with an unexpected or undetected deadly snake, though never one wrapping around – (pythons excepted, naturally)

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
September 17, 2023 10:16 pm

Cross-pollination via Samizdata:

Brownsword has recently been suggesting that we are rapidly advancing into the next iteration of law – Law 3.0 – in which law becomes essentially self-executing through technology and, indeed, the very exercise of subjecting human conduct to rules becomes subsumed by technological management. Here, the creation of rules itself will become seen as archaic, with technology providing us with better – more efficient, more rational, more effective – forms of justice than those available to the flawed system of law which we currently respect. The end result (the apotheosis of Law 3.0, as it were), will be the merging of technology with law, such that the requirement for rules to exist will disappear and human conduct will be more or less entirely managed by technology.

– David McGrogan

When people don’t have the power to choose what NOT to do, will they have any idea what they SHOULD do? When consequences take priority, will anyone know the value or principle behind the rule?
Rules as a database that you and your personal AI assistant can query to figure out what is allowed is fine, but taking the human out of the loop sounds rather horrid.

Gabor
Gabor
September 17, 2023 10:17 pm

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Sep 17, 2023 9:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDik61GZkcI
Geoffrey Blainey and Warren Mundine on the subject of Bruce Pascoe, and “Dark Emu.”

Thanks for that, got the message, but a bit disappointed in the delivery.
Geoffrey Blainey, I can understand, age gets you, but I thought Warren M was a better speaker than that.
Maybe he wasn’t as prepared as needed?

Never mind, the message was clear and anyone disputing it is denying history, lots of it about these days unfortunately.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 10:28 pm

Holy shit. I’ve never seem lay down.

—-

Woof bark growl:

Cash 2.0 Great Dane at Ride To The Flags 2023 Malibu Bluffs Park (3 of 3)

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 10:30 pm

I’ve never him seem lay down.

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
September 17, 2023 10:32 pm

Electrical Trades Union offers support for ‘Yes’ campaign

Black Wires Matter?

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 10:34 pm

and human conduct will be more or less entirely managed by technology

probably why everybody waiting tonite up the fish’n’chip shop was checking their phones

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
September 17, 2023 10:35 pm

Quenthland Sovcittery Constitution News (the CM):

A Queensland judge has hit out at the “ideas promoted by charlatans, fraudsters, crackpots and racists” after a man appealing two traffic charges claimed to have “dual legal identities”.

Let’s work with ‘charlatans, fraudsters and crackpots’ here.

Stephen Angus Woodhead was found guilty of driving without due care and attention and fined $600 by a magistrate in March after he tailgated a motorist then passed him and a truck by crossing double lines along Pomona Kin Kin Road at Pinbarren on the Sunshine Coast last October. Some of his driving was caught on camera.

Woodhead appealed the decision the same day of his Magistrates Court hearing on the grounds of “error in fact, error in law”, Maroochydore’s District Court heard.

Uh huh:

Judge Glen Cash, in a decision published Friday, said Woodhead’s submissions contained “some breathtakingly wrongheaded assertions”

“Outside of the usual pseudo-law nonsense, the appellant cherrypicks from irrelevant and inapplicable material,” he said.

Here it comes:

One “extraordinary assertion” was Woodhead’s claim that no state can make a law contradicting section 79 of the Constitution.

The Consty!

“It is a curious submission to make, not least of which because section 79 of the Constitution is a provision concerned with the number of judges of a Court exercising federal jurisdiction,” Judge Cash said.

The self-represented Woodhead “sought to maintain the discredited fiction” that he was not the appellant or person who committed the traffic offence “because he has dual legal personalities”.

Probably due to him being a ‘living person travelling in his conveyance’.

“There were the further usual references to equity and trusts. It was impossible to comprehend much of the speech,” Judge Cash said.

Equity, trusts, birth certificates, maritime law, tunnels. Notably, the beak referred to them as ‘usual’.

“Not for the first time, I am moved to observe that it is sad to see a person such as the appellant, who is seemingly capable of industry and thought, diverting his time and effort in the fruitless pursuit of ideas promoted by charlatans, fraudsters, crackpots and racists.

Ringing bells? Fraudsters? Scamming the gullible?

“Those who wish to stand outside that law and ignore long recognised processes must realise they bear the onus of rationally explaining why these almost universally accepted understandings are wrong. Until such time, the claims of such people will continue to be summarily dismissed.”

‘Bear the onus of rationally explaining’. You listening to this, Trickler?

Oh my lord that’s good.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 10:35 pm

JH

The big problem for China is that it takes months to prepare for an invasion and there will be no hiding that.

Military analysts are suggesting that China’s “exercises” are becoming bigger and bigger around Taiwan as time goes on in order to disguise the big one.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 10:39 pm

Stephen Angus Woodhead

Last name sounds appropriate. Surely the Simulation is having a lend.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:02 pm

This has everything backwards.

You’re obviously thinking in reverse, which is why it looks backwards to you. Russia wants its neighbours to act as buffers. It’s neighbours, particularly Ukraine don’t appear to want to become a rifle range.

The US wants to call the shots in the region as it does in Europe through NATO.

Wanting to call the shots and calling the shots are two entirely different things. If the US carries a great deal of influence in NATO, it’s because it spends the vast bulk of the money keeping NATO afloat. If the Europeans were all deadset against providing support to Ukraine, the current support would have been much more limited. Stop focusing on the big, bad US all the time. Currently, the bulk of support reaching Ukraine is coming from Europe, not the US, no matter what your Twitter sources suggest.

Ukraine isn’t a buffer if it remains neutral. It simply isn’t a bulwark for the West on Russia’s border.

You’ve been droning on about the history and how the US and NATO have done in Russia; even now, Ukraine is not a member of the EU and is also not a member of NATO irrespective of what the links you provided have said about US posturing in the past.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:09 pm

The US doesn’t control the island. The US has no intention of controlling the island. Never has and never will. The most benign superpower in world history and all you do is rag on the US.

The US wants to call the shots in the region as it does in Europe through NATO.

With respect to Taiwan, calling the shots means means that the US wants to ensure Taiwan remains a free and independent nation. Calling the shots also means it doesn’t want to see China controlling vitally important waterways.

Calling the shots means that the US has kept the peace and ensured that international waterways are kept open. Obviously, you oppose this.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
September 17, 2023 11:14 pm

Finally a celebrity endorsement for the No campaign:
Kevin Bloody Wilson has come out against the Voice. 🙂

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:18 pm

Just listen to yourself, Dover.

If any NATO member wanted to leave NATO it would be free to do so. Former Soviet Bloc countries ran over themselves to join NATO because of their history associating with the Orcs. They ran, no bolted, as fast as they could. The only way Russia has kept some of the old Bloc within the Russian orbit is either through attacks or serious threats of invasion. Now, two countries that weren’t associated with NATO have joined because of Russian aggression.

But look, there’s the big bad US controlling NATO. How about that, hey!

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 11:18 pm

the US has kept the peace and ensured that international waterways are kept open

what’s a nonsense premise is the you can hold up a two figure IQ. We’re talking about something that not related to how a military adventure is conducted over water or over land. Remain silent.

… same idiot

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 11:21 pm

Former Soviet Bloc countries ran over themselves to join NATO because of their history

and

The most benign superpower in world history and all you do is rag on the US.

and

You’ve been droning on about the history and how the US and NATO have done in Russia;

yep … same idiot

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
September 17, 2023 11:22 pm

FMD!

10 million views in one month.

—-

Peter Santenello:

The Man With No Legal Identity – Off the Grid in Appalachia ??

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:27 pm

If only we had recipe night for slow cooked lamb.

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 11:29 pm

JC, you pathetic tantrum throwing infant

you spend a lot of time putting words in other people’s mouths

you should choose yr own words more carefully

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:39 pm

you should choose yr own words more carefully

Yes.

there are some forums where your’e like a god and people hang on yr every word.
parts of my little world are like that
I’m the old man
the oracle
the bloke that makes people shit themselves when I enter the room

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 11:41 pm

JC wins Miss Universe again

MatrixTransform
September 17, 2023 11:42 pm

world peace … JC you got this

… try a bikini to show off yr intellect

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:43 pm

Well, if that were the case Ukraine failed miserably.

Yea, Poland failed miserably too. France failed and so did Norway, Belgium and Netherlands etc. All miserable failures.

My twitter sources have been far better than Forbes and WSJ.

Who cares about Forbes. You have a sub to the WSJ?

Please, JC. Now you’re telling us that Bush Jr inviting Ukraine to NATO in 2008 and all the subsequent maneuvers were all just ‘posturing’, that they never meant to follow through with any of this and accept them? They were just gagging.

Ukraine isn’t a member of NATO. It didn’t join in 2008, 2009, nor 2010. So much for US control of NATO.

JC
JC
September 17, 2023 11:47 pm

China isn’t going to close waterways vital to its trade.

Which is why, China is constantly threatening shipping from recognized international waterways its considers it’s own domain.

You’re denying this now?

JC
JC
September 18, 2023 12:01 am

I’m sorry, JC, I just find Mearsheimer’s, etc. accounts of the last thirty years far more convincing than the above.

No need for an apology. You’ve been linking to sites saying this and that but the reality is that Ukraine is not a member of NATO and hasn’t gained membership to the EU since it became independent. Perhaps it’s not the case in the parallel universe where in fact it is a member in good standing 🙂

MatrixTransform
September 18, 2023 12:04 am

and puppies

… cant have world peace without puppies

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Oh, you think that, do you? Care to put it on record?x
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