Open Thread – Weekend 7 Oct 2023


Claude Monet, Adolphe Monet Reading in the Garden, 1866

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Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:00 pm

Pogs – she was acting up a storm in this film about a li’l Wussian devotchka forced into a life of sex and violence … 😕

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:02 pm

Mattel releases Stevie Nicks Barbie doll, but it’s already sold out

BoN – in a veritable sea of bad news, that has made my day 🙂

Top Ender
Top Ender
October 8, 2023 8:03 pm

Andrew Bolt: Why Ray Martin’s Channel 7 appearance on the Voice debate is absurd

Ray Martin’s appearance on Channel 7’s the Voice panel debate as a hand-picked “Aborigine”, because his great-great-grandmother was Indigenous, exemplifies the stupidity of the Yes case.

Andrew Bolt

Ray Martin hasn’t just called No voters “dickheads” and “dinosaurs”.

On Sunday night this media dinosaur also showed why the Voice is a dickhead idea.

There he was on Channel 7 as a hand-picked “Aborigine”, arguing for Labor’s planned advisory parliament for just the Aboriginal race. For Ray’s race.

Does this former TV star realise what damage he’s doing to the Yes campaign just a week from the vote?

Martin’s abuse of No voters was vote-losing enough, after the Prime Minister had him speak at a Marrickville rally.

Talk about the arrogance of the Yes campaign. Martin insisted No supporters were dumb if they didn’t ask for details of this Voice, but also dumb if they did.

I kid you not. He blasted the No campaign’s slogan “if you don’t know, vote No”, saying anyone who repeated it was either “a dinosaur or a dickhead who can’t be bothered reading”, snapping: “If you don’t know, find out what you don’t know.”

Yet in literally the next breath, he suggested you’d be a dickhead to expect any detail on how this Voice would work.

“The No vote organisers also keep asking Albo for the details. What about the details? At this stage of the game, the details simply don’t matter.”

But what Martin agreed to next made him an even bigger symbol of the stupidity of the Voice.

He signed up for Channel 7’s big debate on Sunday on the Voice, alongside Nationals senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, race-baiting Senator Lidia Thorpe and Labor Senator Malarndirri McCarthy.

Already you’ll wonder: why did Channel 7 add Martin, a white-faced superannuated TV presenter from decades ago?

Because he’s Aboriginal, too, said the debate’s producer, the talented Rob McKnight: “From the beginning, we made the decision that it had to be Indigenous Australians on the panel. We didn’t want white people talking for them.”

Pardon? Martin isn’t white?

Sure, the other panellists qualify as Aboriginal, in a way, although all also have white ancestry.

Price has an Aboriginal mother, as well as a white father. McCarthy has an Aboriginal mother, as well as a white father. Thorpe has a mother of Aboriginal and Scottish ancestry, as well as a white father.

Close enough, I guess. But Martin?

Well, as he once discussed on Who Do You Think You Are?, among Martin’s Irish ancestors was an Aboriginal great-great grandmother, Bertha, a fact he declared “important”.

To be fair, Martin doesn’t go around identifying as Aboriginal, yet his single Aboriginal great-great-grandparent was important enough for Channel 7 to choose him as an “Indigenous man”, and not one of those “white people talking for them” in a debate about changing our constitution to divide Australians by race.

That raises two huge questions about this Voice.

First, of course, what is an Aborigine, after generations of intermarriage? Is Martin, for instance, really Aboriginal in any meaningful way?

Just one of his 16 great-great grandparents was Aboriginal, so why does that one define Martin more than the other 15? Why does that one great-great-grandparent privilege him in a debate, or qualify him to be represented by a Voice to Parliament in the constitution – unlike anyone of any other “race”?

What an insult to our individuality to assign people to a victim race because of a single ancestor 150 years ago or even more.

There’s another big question about Ray the Aborigine.

Check again that Channel 7 panel of Aborigines discussing this Voice that we’re told will finally give Aborigines a, well, Voice.

Don’t these four people all have a huge Voice already? Three are senators in our national parliament, including Price, now touted as a potential prime minister. The fourth is one of the most famous TV journalists of his time. Millions and millions of other Australians will never have a Voice as loud as any of these Aborigines have already.

Do we really need a Voice that treats all Aborigines as uniquely voiceless? Uniquely powerless and victimised? How racist. What a grotesque and damaging caricature.
Absurdity piles on absurdity. Ray Martin, this Aborigine chosen by Channel 7 to speak for other Aborigines, could technically be one of the 24 people selected to represent other Aborigines on the Voice.

How mad to divide us by race so crudely that even a Ray Martin could get a Voice in the constitution to speak for him, but not for the 97 per cent of Australians who don’t also have a great-great-grandmother of the “right” race.

What dickhead thought that made sense?

Herald-Sun

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:06 pm

Anna was hotter as a brunette.

Discuss, Cats.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 8:09 pm

UN Security Council to meet over Israel-Hamas conflict
Staff writers

The UN Security Council will convene today to discuss the Israel-Hamas conflict.

“The Secretary General is deeply concerned for the civilian population and urges maximum restraint,” UN spokesperson Stephane Dujarric said

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
October 8, 2023 8:10 pm

Rabz – A friend of mine was endlessly hot for Stevie, but I’ve always liked Christine McVie’s vocals better.

Say You Love Me (1976)

Sadly Christine is no longer with us, she went to the great gig in the sky last year.

132andBush
132andBush
October 8, 2023 8:12 pm

So the Bidency has siphoned off ammo and weapons to Ukraine from stocks ALREADY in Israel?

While supplying money and a pat on the head to those who would wipe Israel off the map.

Biden has more blood on his hands.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:16 pm
Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 8:16 pm

Crossie,

I am looking a little further than the outcome of this conflict.

Remove a source of grievance and you remove leverage that might be used against you in the future. Build on the outright distaste that has been shown in reaction to the vile acts done to Israeli citizens. Show yourselves to be morally superior in every way.

Vengeance might feel good in the now but it rarely works out long term.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 8:17 pm

I am a big fan of Anne-Marie Waters, she’s uploaded this in the last hour, on Israel….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIVcjhrgh2Q

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 8:18 pm

Helen Mirren was accused of “Jew Face”

Do trannies have “Woman Face”?

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:19 pm

Andrew Blot: Why Gay Ray Martin’s appearance on braindead FTA commercial television spruiking the Screeech is absurd

Err, there are other reasons?

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 8:20 pm

“Vengeance might feel good in the now but it rarely works out long term.”

Maybe, but turning the other cheek rarely works out in the long term either.

There’s a time for vengeance, and a time for justice. Israel will have both.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
October 8, 2023 8:21 pm

Discuss, Cats.

Brunette of course.

La Femme Nikita: Restaurant (1990)

Great movie. SBS had it on once and it was mesmerising.

calli
calli
October 8, 2023 8:21 pm

The Secretary General is deeply concerned for the civilian population and urges maximum restraint

WHICH “civilian population “?

hzhousewife
hzhousewife
October 8, 2023 8:22 pm

Mirren has Russian heritage if I’m not mistaken.

MatrixTransform
October 8, 2023 8:23 pm

hang on
a switch needs flicking

3 dicks need wanking ?

… why don’t you just proceed straight to the usual 3 way reach around?

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:25 pm

Christine is no longer with us

She was an under rated presence in the Mac.

I’m presuming only Stevie and the Buckingham are still with us?

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 8:27 pm

I am a big fan of Anne-Marie Waters, she’s uploaded this in the last hour, on Israel….

Interesting post, Cassie, thank you.

H B Bear
H B Bear
October 8, 2023 8:28 pm

Ray Martin is the MC Hammer of Australian Current Affairs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo

Crossie
Crossie
October 8, 2023 8:28 pm

Luzu
Oct 8, 2023 8:16 PM
Crossie,
I am looking a little further than the outcome of this conflict.
Remove a source of grievance and you remove leverage that might be used against you in the future. Build on the outright distaste that has been shown in reaction to the vile acts done to Israeli citizens. Show yourselves to be morally superior in every way.
Vengeance might feel good in the now but it rarely works out long term.

You assume one thing not in evidence, that they think as we do or that they would appreciate the gesture. It’s more likely to make them think they were right to attack, the Israelis not retaliating would indicate that they were in the wrong.

H B Bear
H B Bear
October 8, 2023 8:29 pm

A proud Mosman man.

Roger
Roger
October 8, 2023 8:30 pm

To be fair, Martin doesn’t go around identifying as Aboriginal, yet his single Aboriginal great-great-grandparent was important enough for Channel 7 to choose him as an “Indigenous man”

What…Ray is initiated?

Time to call a halt to this nonsense.

The media routinely refers to individuals as a proud this or that “man” or “woman” when their own indigenous ancestors would not recognise them as such becaue they are not initiated.

As for the individuals who claim such status without the ritual scars to prove it (99.99% of them, I suspect), how is that different in principle from stolen valour?

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 8:33 pm

Helen Mirren was born with the surname Mironoff due to a Russian father. So, yes, her heritage is half Russian.

Cassie –

When it comes to turning the other cheek, that is only valid on a personal level, not a societal one. What I am suggesting is that with a little (well-publicised) restraint and obvious efforts to avoid civilian casualties, the same destruction of Hamas could be achieved but without the collateral damage that is so beloved by Muslims and anti-Semites everywhere as a source of ongoing proprganda.

We all know that the Israelis are far smarter than their opposition in this conflict. Now is the time to show it.

Gabor
Gabor
October 8, 2023 8:35 pm

Crossie
Oct 8, 2023 8:28 PM

Luzu
Oct 8, 2023 8:16 PM

I think Luzu takes this forgiveness spiel a little too far.
If it makes her happy, fine with me, but the real world does not now, nor ever worked on this principle.

Sanctimonious sentiments, mostly.

feelthebern
feelthebern
October 8, 2023 8:37 pm

Remove a source of grievance and you remove leverage that might be used against you in the future.

The source of grief for these Hamas animals is that there are Jews.
Until there are no more Jews they will feel aggrieved.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 8:37 pm

As for the individuals who claim such status without the ritual scars to prove it (99.99% of them, I suspect), how is that different in principle from stolen valour?

Quite a fair comment. I’ve seen a “full blood”, baring his scars to two “yellafellas.”

“Here’s my initiation marks. Here’s where I took the law. Where’s yours?”

H B Bear
H B Bear
October 8, 2023 8:38 pm

At least Shaq was blak.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
October 8, 2023 8:38 pm

how is that different in principle from stolen valour?

It’s not different at all.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
October 8, 2023 8:40 pm
Roger
Roger
October 8, 2023 8:43 pm

Maybe, but turning the other cheek rarely works out in the long term either.

You misconstrue Jesus’ meaning.

He wasn’t referring to the foreign policy of modern nations, but interpersonal relations in a shame-dignity based, hierarchical culture.

Mark from Melbourne
Mark from Melbourne
October 8, 2023 8:47 pm

I’m presuming only Stevie and the Buckingham are still with us?

And the eponymous Mick, of course.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 8:47 pm

You all seem to be forgetting that this conflict is taking place on the world stage. And, Gabor, you can pat me on the head later as you know nothing about my opinion on the topics of forgiveness and justice.

What I am calling for is wisdom. That is not the same as forgiving the perpetrators of these atrocities or saying they should be allowed to escape without consequence.

What I am saying is that the total levelling of Gaza or turning the region into a sea of glass is counter-productive.

Do I wish all those involved in killing Israelis suffer a real world consequence? Yes. I firmly believe in justice.

Do I wish to see the Hamas leadership/political structure/powerbase removed from existence? Yes.

Do I see as the indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians as achieving those aims? No.

Remember: There are alliances, both real and potential, between Saudi Arabia, Israel and other Muslim nations that will be jeopardised if the domestic populations in those countries can be stirred up by what they see as the slaughter of their Muslim brothers and sisters.

Do not give a single reason for those leverages to be used. Be wise.

Boambee John
Boambee John
October 8, 2023 8:48 pm

Luzu

What I am suggesting is that with a little (well-publicised) restraint and obvious efforts to avoid civilian casualties, the same destruction of Hamas could be achieved but without the collateral damage that is so beloved by Muslims and anti-Semites everywhere as a source of ongoing proprganda.

The propaganda will be disseminated anyway. Note the inevitable “ambulance bombed by evil “Jooooos” has already made its appearance. Pallywood has much experience of making bogus films of dead children (often the same “dead” child appears in multiple locations.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 8:48 pm

Ray Martin is the MC Hammer of Australian Current Affairs

Tha latter’s most legendary ditty:

Well, I like big buttocks and I cannot be purveying untruths, I tells ya!

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 8:53 pm

And, yes, it is definitely unfair that Israel seems to be held to a higher standard.

But you know what? Life is unfair. Adapt. Adjust. And thrive.

That is what Israel’s history since 1948 has shown me they can do.

Hamas’ overreach today (that poor woman brutalised by them was also very photogenic and they showed a contempt towards her corpse that is sickening to most people) has given Israel a platform to showcase to the world exactly who they are dealing with. Killing grown men who indulge in such things is going to be seen as entirely just.

Littel corpses dragged out of rubble not so much.

cohenite
October 8, 2023 8:54 pm

The propaganda will be disseminated anyway

Correct. There is NO propaganda war for Israel to win. None. Their position, as always, is existential. Time to nuke iran.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
October 8, 2023 8:55 pm

Sir Mixalot.

Sir Mixalot preferred large derrieres, not MC H.

feelthebern
feelthebern
October 8, 2023 8:55 pm

What I am calling for is wisdom.

It is wise to use this opportunity to wipe out as many of the Hamas apes as possible.
And increase the buffer zone between Israel & Gaza.

cohenite
October 8, 2023 8:56 pm

FMD, Bernardi and Flint earnestly discussing the major contribution lighting up the Sydney Opera House will do for Israel. Fuking light up Tehran.

Muddy
Muddy
October 8, 2023 8:57 pm

Show yourselves to be morally superior in every way.

First comes survival.
It’s pointless arguing about morality when you’re dead.
That doesn’t mean morality has no place in war, but it’s necessary to prioritize your actions.
Freeze, flee, fight.
Moral superiority is a luxury, not a basic need.

Rosie
Rosie
October 8, 2023 8:57 pm

Hamas deliberately place civilians in harm’s way.
There will inevitably be collateral damage.
Iirc they used to force young boys to dig their tunnels, any resulting death was a ‘martyrdom’.
They are also claiming no Israeli civilian casualties, all are apparently ‘settlers’ and therefore legitimate targets.
Apparently two Thai Nationals are among the murdered, I suppose Hamas will being saying sorry about that.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 8:57 pm

BJ,

One cannot influence the minds of people who cannot receive new information.

But I have been on X all day and there are a lot of people revolted by what Hamas themselves have broadcast. Some sympathy for what might be termed the Palestinian cause has been lost. As has any tolerance towards those in the West who demand that we “Free Palestine”.

The actions of Hamas (egged on by the rather vile but also emboldened Iranians) have simply brought into the light what Israel always said they were fighting.

I do have hope that many eyes have been opened by what Hamas have bragged about.

feelthebern
feelthebern
October 8, 2023 9:01 pm

Ex Iran, there must be a growing proportion of the Arab population that is sick of being economically handicapped due to religious gripes.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 9:02 pm

FMD, Bernardi and Flint earnestly discussing the major contribution lighting up the Sydney Opera House will do for Israel. Fuking light up Tehran.

Remember the old joke?

“What’s black and charred, and glows in the dark?

“Downtown Tehran , the day after Ronald Reagan is sworn in as President.”

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 9:04 pm

Israel’s existence is not threatened at this time. They are militarily superior in every way.

I am not sure why I have to keep bringing this point up but Israel is on a tightrope right now. As unfair as it seems that this calculation should be placed on a nation whose citizens have been slaughtered, do not fight back to a point where the Arab nations around you feel political pressure from their domestic populations to ‘do something’. Surely we have all seen the pro-Palestinian demonstrations taking place in various Islamic nations enough to understand the domestic vs international political calculations?

Exterminate Hamas. Do the entire world a favour. Just make it look like a gift to the long suffering Palestinian people at the same time.

If any nation can achieve that, it is Israel.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:04 pm

KD – for goodness’ sake …

Arky
October 8, 2023 9:06 pm

Russia expresses its most serious concern at the sharp aggravation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said on Saturday.

“We call on the Palestinian and Israeli sides to implement an immediate ceasefire, renounce violence, exercise the necessary restraint and establish, with the assistance of the international community, a negotiation process aimed at establishing a comprehensive, lasting and long-awaited peace in the Middle East,” she said in a statement.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-calls-israel-palestinians-cease-fire-2023-10-07/

..
The same Russia that has been fighting pretend Nazis in Ukraine while being perfectly happy to sit down and have friendly chats with the genuine actual Israeli killing Nazis from Hamas. I’m so, so sure they are genuine in their concerns for the region.

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 9:06 pm

Palestinians will be free if they were Israeli citizens – or at least liberated from Hamas, Hezbollah and Fatah.

Despite any discrimination they might face, you would much rather be an Arab Israeli than a Gazan or West Banker.

bons
bons
October 8, 2023 9:07 pm

Oh Dear. Hilderbrand on Bernardi passionality demanding sanctions against any Australians who support Hamas barbarism.
Errr Joe, They are the Australians who you support every day.
Reality —-Lefty —- furkit!

Pogria
Pogria
October 8, 2023 9:08 pm

Crossie,
totally agree with you about Obama. I have never believed he had the smarts to be the “Brains Trust”, behind the string pulling of the Biden Presidency. He was so obviously a Manchurian candidate himself. Talk about “dumb as a box”.

The Golda you are thinking of is A woman Called Golda, a mini series from the early eighties starring Ingrid Bergman as Golda. See if you can find a copy of it. Well worth watching.

As for your thoughts on wiping out the Pallys, absolutely. As someone stated earlier in this thread, go Roman on them. Wipe them out, salt the earth so that vile creed will not raise its poisonous presence for a thousand years.

I am a small farmer, to me, the sand apes are like Blackberries. You have to be vigilant, you have to burn them, chop them and poison them. If you stay on top of them, you will succeed in eradicating them. NEVER become complacent. Another analogy is feral animals. Ooooh, look at the babies, aren’t they sweeeeeeet. Sure, but feed them, look after them and they will still kill your chooks and spread disease.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:09 pm

“Well, I like magnifique bottomages and I cannot be purveying untruths, I tells ya!“

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 9:13 pm

Trickler

Have you got any Mr Horsepower merch? It looks cool, I might get some soon.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 9:13 pm

Cohenite –

You received my first ever downtick. How easily you speak of dropping a nuclear weapon on other human beings. It makes me feel sick when people speak lightly about mass extermination.

Think of it this way. Every human being values their own life as much as you do yours. Would you be so glib if it were your life that hung in the balance?

MatrixTransform
October 8, 2023 9:14 pm

what’s the matter KD?

… you waiting for reinforcements?

… run out of original thoughts?

… busy calculating Keno odds like they change every time you drop a dollar?

… can’t work out how to use your VPN?

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:14 pm
Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 9:15 pm

“You misconstrue Jesus’ meaning.

He wasn’t referring to the foreign policy of modern nations, but interpersonal relations in a shame-dignity based, hierarchical culture.”

Well indeed, Roger. I was referring to how the left misconstrue the notion of “turning the other cheek”. The insist that Israel alone should turn the other cheek. NO. I actually do believe there’s a time and a place for turning the other cheek, however the events in Israel are not one of those times. There’s a time for war and a time for peace.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
October 8, 2023 9:20 pm

what’s the matter KD?

… you waiting for reinforcements?

As it happens Catweazle, I’m watching the crikkit, was on the phone and I’m now chatting to some other people.

I’ll let you know should the fridge need closing.

I’m okay for reinforcements, God Oracle. Thanks for asking, sweetie.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:20 pm

Yarks
Oct 8, 2023 9:06 PM

Squire! Hope you and the family are well.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 9:22 pm

Interesting post, Cassie, thank you.”

Anne-Marie Waters is a lesbian and a lawyer from Northern England. I would describe her politics as traditionally “Social Democrat”. She was silenced and cancelled years ago, along with Tommy and Katie. She’s been smeared as a racist, all because she calls out Islamic terrorism, she wants a cap on Islamic immigration, FGM and so on. She founded the party “For Britain”, which she dissolved last year.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
October 8, 2023 9:23 pm

Dot
Oct 8, 2023 9:13 PM
Trickler

Have you got any Mr Horsepower merch? It looks cool, I might get some soon.

No.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 9:25 pm

Cassie –

You used the ‘turn the other cheek’ idea as a way to say that Israel should not forgive the atrocities of the past day. As both Roger and I both pointed out, those words were never meant to be be used by an entire population but on an individual level. Who gives a rat’s a**e what leftist atheists say those words mean?

And, yes, your quoting of Ecclesiastes is apt. But it is the manner of how that war is conducted that interests me. Israel has a unique opportunity to both exact justice and show the world exactly who they are expected to sue for peace with. Not many people like seeing children and grandmothers taken hostage.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 9:28 pm

https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/10/sydney-university-dickheads-chanting-in-support-of-terrorists.html

Their parents probably chanted “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh – the N.L.F. is gunna win.”

C.L.
C.L.
October 8, 2023 9:29 pm

The same Russia that has been fighting pretend Nazis in Ukraine while being perfectly happy to sit down and have friendly chats with the genuine actual Israeli killing Nazis from Hamas.

The United States just gave $6 billion to Iran to finance the genuine actual Israeli killing Nazis from Hamas, Arky.

Not Russia. The neocons.

The same neocons who started the war in Europe.

You cannot rehabilitate the moronic lost war in Ukraine by citing Russia’s undoubtedly idiotic anti-West pivot vis-a-vis Israel.

Arky
October 8, 2023 9:32 pm

Rabz Avatar
Rabz
Oct 8, 2023 9:20 PM
Yarks

..
Bloke.
All is good aside from the evil of the times.
Gave you one of these newly fangled thumbs ups.

C.L.
C.L.
October 8, 2023 9:32 pm

Good to see you, though, Arkster.

————————————-

Let’s Go!

One of my favourites.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 9:32 pm

Of course

Two Israeli tourists reportedly shot dead in Egypt

Two Israeli tourists in Egypt have reportedly been shot dead.

No other information is available as of yet.

The Israel-Hamas conflict has raised tensions across the Middle East, as the militant group calls other Arab nations to arms

Pogria
Pogria
October 8, 2023 9:35 pm

Think of it this way. Every human being values their own life as much as you do yours. Would you be so glib if it were your life that hung in the balance?

Luzu,
most human beings certainly value their own lives. Hamas, Pally’s et al, are quite happy to sacrifice the lives of others whom they profess to love, their own children. Witness the fact they hide their monstrous cabals in Hospitals, schools and kindergartens.
Golda herself stated there would never be peace in the Middle East until the Arabs love their children more than they love War.

This thread is showing signs it may to devolve into the “Yes, but”, phase.
eg, I believe in Free Speech, BUT…

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 9:38 pm

citing Russia’s undoubtedly idiotic anti-West pivot vis-a-vis Israel.

I really don’t get the win here for Russia other than achieving even more downticks.

Israel has remained neutral in the war anyway.

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 9:39 pm

What a nice guy.

Dmitry Medvedev, Russia’s former leader, called today for a civil war in the US, as he said a civil war would be the only thing that could stop “America’s manic passion for sparking conflicts everywhere on the planet”.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 9:41 pm

Dot

I recall when Dimitri was citing Hayek and von Mises as the guys to follow economically. Funny, thinking about that now.

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 9:43 pm

What a greasy turd.

Dmitry Medvedev, Russia’s former leader, called today for a civil war in the US, as he said a civil war would be the only thing that could stop “America’s manic passion for sparking conflicts everywhere on the planet”.

Medvedev wrote on Telegram:

**The outbreak of fighting between Hamas and Israel on the 50th anniversary of the start of the Yom Kippur War is an event that could have been expected. This is what Washington and its allies had to do. The conflict between Israel and Palestine has been going on for decades. And the US is a key player there.

But instead of actively working on a Palestinian-Israeli settlement, these idiots got in on us and are helping the neo-Nazis with all their might, pushing two close nations into conflict.

What can stop America’s manic passion for sparking conflicts everywhere on the planet?

Apparently, only a civil war in the United States.**

Let’s see if the partisan-based America sceptics accept that Russia uses a firehose of disinformation and plays very old games despite denying being the old enemy.

Arky
October 8, 2023 9:43 pm

C.L.
Oct 8, 2023 9:29 PM

The United States just gave $6 billion

..
CL:
Of previously frozen Iranian funds.
Didn’t you previously make an argument that freezing Russian assets made the likelihood of de-dollarization greater? That it was a bad president that eroded US legitimacy? Or am I mistaking you for someone else?
Anyway, if some of those funds reach, say, Gaza, they will mingle with funds from many other places, Including aid given to Gaza by Israel:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-8217-s-humanitarian-aid-in-gaza
Apologises if I misremembered who made the argument about de-dollarisation threat.

Arky
October 8, 2023 9:43 pm

Precedent not president.

cohenite
October 8, 2023 9:43 pm

Think of it this way. Every human being values their own life as much as you do yours

Bullshit. Islam has the highest rate of both terrorism and suicidal/martyrdom terrorism. A short essay on the muslim frame of mind which doesn’t give a rat’s arse about other lives or often their own.

Islamic terrorism site.

One of the defining characteristics of islam as we see with hamas and every other muslim outfit, is their willingness to use their own as human shields.

No offence but you have no fuking idea about islam.

Bar Beach Swimmer
October 8, 2023 9:45 pm

Discussion on channel 7 re the voice – Jacinta Price, Lidia Thorpe, Malarndirri McCarthy & Ray Martin.

There’s a vote running on their website

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 9:45 pm

Pogria,

You are entirely free to believe what you wish about this thread. My concern is the survival of the nation of Israel.

Just understanding the Muslim/Arab psyche and seeing how events can be used differently domestically and internationally, I would hope that the Israeli governemnt and its military forces are adept, flexible and ultimately successful.

It just seems that I have a different idea of how that looks from many others on this forum. Let’s be honest. You and I are far away from this theatre of war and getting it wrong probably has little consequence for either of us. I don’t think the same can be said for the Israelis right now.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 9:47 pm

CL

There appears to be a bit of double dealing going on with Iran. Iran is quite comfortable aligning with Russia over the war. Meanwhile, the corrupt Hiden Administration is attempting to come to some arrangement with Iran over nukes. When discussing the US, one needs to separate the activities of the demonrat party vs the GOP.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 9:47 pm

https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/10/probably-not-your-wisest-choice-in-causes-kids.html

“Queers For Palestine.”

Words fail me, they honestly do!

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:48 pm
Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
October 8, 2023 9:49 pm

Let’s Go!

Ok go.

Ridiculously good pop band.

OK Go – Do What You Want Version 2

Black Ball
Black Ball
October 8, 2023 9:50 pm

FMD Labuschagne. Get off.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 9:53 pm

Cohenite –

With all due repect, I am very well-versed in Islam to the point I can probably quote more surahs than you. I understand both the spiritual and real world effects of that belief system.

So yeah. The patronising really must stop.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 9:53 pm
Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
October 8, 2023 9:56 pm

FMD Labuschagne. Get off.

Get off indeed.

Unnecessarily burned a review that may have been gold to one of the batsmen coming in later.

And NOW Carey goes second ball, LBW, and who could most certainly could have used that review – the pill may well have been going down leg.

5/119. Straya are done here.

cohenite
October 8, 2023 9:57 pm

The patronising really must stop.

Haha. I don’t patronise. You said muslims value their own lives. Explain the rate of martyrdom.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:00 pm

“Israel has a unique opportunity”

Israel shows restraint every single time it’s attacked. It has the most moral and efficient army on the planet. Hamas and Hezbollah have a long history of using human shields, hospital and schools to hide behind, and Israel is always careful about how its responds to aggression. Israel has an army that could raise Gaza to the ground, but it won’t however there has to be vengeance followed by justice. Hamas must be annihilated.

I’m sorry but I watched the footage of the Gazans parading the corpse of an Israeli woman through the streets of Gaza, the Gazans jumping up and down with glee. Calling such people animals is an insult to animals, they are scum, scum, scum.

Watch Corey Gil-Shuster’s youtube channel which chronicles his chats with Palestinians (on the West Bank). You’ll find it enlightening, disturbing and often sickening. Most of the Pallies Shuster speaks to don’t want peace, they want the Jews gonski. Their idea of the two state solution is one state, with the Jews zapped away.

For many years I pitied the Palestinians, a people always sold down the drain by their own leaders. I stopped pitying them back in the early 2000s, when they launched the second intifada, an uprising dripping with Jew hatred. As mentioned earlier, this is not a political war, it’s a religious war and Hamas, Hezbollah and your average Palestinian sitting in a cafe in Ramallah won’t be satisfied until every last Jew is pushed into the sea, and this mass drowning will be enabled and abetted by western progressives.

Black Ball
Black Ball
October 8, 2023 10:01 pm
JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:02 pm

Interesting view about de-dollarization where speculation doesn’t meet up with reality. Recent report I saw showed that what we’ve been seeing in 2023 is an increase is Dollar holdings and a “de-Euroization” occurring. There’s an increase in Dollar holdings and a corresponding fall in Euro holdings?

Why?

Perhaps like all throughout history, when in times of Geo-politcal concerns people go hide behind the apron strings of the dude with the biggest gun at the OK- Corral.

The US is currently holding about half of Russia’s foreign currency reserves in the freezer. The chatter in the NYTimes (yes, I read it to see what the disloyal opposition is up to) is that the US should use the $300 billion to assist Ukraine. There are some dubious legalities attached and the Hiden Administration is at room temperature on the idea for that reason and also because it could cause concerns with reserve status. The argument is that if the US is able to garner Western allies on its side the deal could be done. I speculate that if the Congress doesn’t release more funding, Dementia is going to move in this direction.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:02 pm

Let me just state this fact here and now. Islam does not value the sanctity of life the way Judaism and Christianity does.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:02 pm
Real Deal
Real Deal
October 8, 2023 10:03 pm

Let’s Go!

One of my favourites.

Mine too, CL! I have it on a playlist of songs to lift my spirits when I flag. The late Benjamin Orr sang some of The Cars finest songs.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:04 pm

“raise “

raze.

Gawd, apologies everyone, sometimes I think I’m getting dementia.

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 10:05 pm

Ireland are equal first with Wales in the RWC.

Ireland is in an epic quarter-final with the All Blacks in a week’s time.

No boozing after the Voice dies next week; I have to get up early at 6 AM to watch this epic match-up.

Contenders Scotland, Italy and Australia (I doubt Fiji will lose) miss out on finals berths.

It’s too much to guess what will play out, unfortunately, we can’t see Ireland v Wales in the final. These finals are going to be bangers!

Give William Webb to the Irish
Don’t make them take him away
Give Billy Boy to the Irish
Make Billy, Irish today!

Razey
Razey
October 8, 2023 10:06 pm

1. 48 hours given to people in Gaza to leave.
2. Level Gaza to the ground and plough it under.
3. Annex Gaza as part of greater Israel.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:07 pm
cohenite
October 8, 2023 10:08 pm

I think I’m getting dementia.

Head massages can vitiate the onset.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:08 pm

The Iranian people are largely as unhappy with their government as the rest of us are. They simply do not have the means to remove them.

I remember reading an article about a time of rapprochement between Tehran and Moscow where any decisions hinged on throwing letters down a well in Qom and waiting for a divine response.

Needless to say, the Russians returned to Moscow convinced the leadership in Tehran was nucking futs.

But those who wish to nuke Iran know intimately the thoughts of all those people and that they deserve nuclear annihilation because they are desperate to be martyrs in the Islamic cause.

On a practical note, they cannot give us the winning numbers in the next Powerball. And yet they seem to be able to read the hearts and minds of people far, far away….

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:10 pm

“The Iranian people are largely as unhappy with their government as the rest of us are. They simply do not have the means to remove them.”

100% correct.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:11 pm

Ireland is in an epic quarter-final with the All Blacks in a week’s time

Pol – the ABs would be the bookies’ favourites.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:13 pm

and of course, the walleebees are no where to be seen, to be sure …

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 10:13 pm

Too harsh Razey. I know people are angry (hence ideas about nukes get floated). Israel has acted justly as Cassie points out.

Invade and destroy the competing terrorist quasi-states, annex Gaza as an Israeli district, offer a pathway to Israeli citizenship or exile to Egypt or the West Bank with some side payment; warn others they will be taken over Roman style if they don’t seek peace and continue to violate order and security. On top of that hit high-value Iranian targets.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:13 pm

Hi Cats, if you wish to give donations to help Israel, please give to…

https://www.magendavidadom.org.au/

Please note that Magen David Adom helps Israelis of ALL religions, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Druze.

Dot
Dot
October 8, 2023 10:15 pm

Ireland are $1.88 to win, NZ are $2.24, on BetFair.

Pogria
Pogria
October 8, 2023 10:17 pm

Cohenite,
you have put it the way I should have. Even now, I was being polite.
Why the hell should Israel be concerned with how they look to the rest of the world? Every time they have done that, they have lost ground. Literal ground. Haven’t most of us been taught to not care what others think of us? To be true to ourselves, believe in ourselves?
No matter what Israel does, they will be treated as the aggressor, as pariahs, when all they have ever strived for is peace to live as they want, like every other country on earth purports to.

Replace the word Israel with Jew, and the way they are treated and expected to behave becomes clear.

As for stating that it is easy for me to voice my opinion as I am far removed from what is happening in the literal sense, if Israel fails, NOTHING will stop these atrocities from spreading like the Black Death throughout the Western world.

We have already been tested, the death of Curtis Cheng by a 15 year old muslim, the poor old pensioner who lost the fingers on both hands because he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and having to fight off a mental muslim. Let’s also add Bali to the mix. 9/11 was the greatest attempt so far upon the West, yet it pales in comparison to the lives lost by Jews through the last four thousand years.

If Israel blinks, you and I will not be far enough away.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:18 pm

How the mighty are fallen.

Armadillo
Armadillo
October 8, 2023 10:19 pm

About 25% of Israel’s population is Arab. About zero percent of Irans population is Arab. Ditto Turkey. About 100% of Saudi Arabia’s population is Arab.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Islam is religion, not a race. Christianity is a religion, not a race.

Join the dots. This has nothing to do with religion, nor race. It has everything to do with POWER and CONTROL and WEALTH.

Religion and race are merely the levers to achieve it.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:19 pm

“Pogria
Oct 8, 2023 10:17 PM”

Well said.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:20 pm

Cassie –

Can you see the opportunity right in front of Israel at this time? Never have the atrocities committed by Muslim terrorists been so widely viewed and condemned as right now.

I agree that Israel has been a model of military restraint, at times to its own detriment. But those sacrifices will be for nothing if they do not hold their nerve at this point.

I have watched every pronouncement by every political figure in Israel today. And I agree with what they are saying about Hamas exacting a heavy toll. There were great community notes on X which accurately translated from the Hebrew that he was encouraging Gazans to leave the ares that would be targeted, not the Strip itself.

But annexing that population is not the way to go. Remove the cancerous leadership and step back. Build alliances with the Muslim nations that formerly supported the Palestinian cause. What was that joke upthread about Palestinians being created from camel poop? Nobody really likes them. Let the consequences of their poor choices fall on their own heads. Arabs in the surrounding nations are not going to be overly bothered by the fate of the Palestinians if they are benefitting economically from good relations with Israel.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:23 pm

Razey
Oct 8, 2023 10:06 PM

1. 48 hours given to people in Gaza to leave.
2. Level Gaza to the ground and plough it under.
3. Annex Gaza as part of greater Israel.

It may be unnecessary if the Arabs who have tried to settle their differences with Israel are legit. There are actually Arab states that despise Hamas because of its links to ISIS, Brotherhood, etc. If Israel mops up the thugs successfully, we could end up with a situation where these countries send in peacekeepers. The interesting thing I read today is that the large majority of Palis also despise Hamas. They may hate Israel too, but they also carry a lot hatred for Hamas because they do nothing to improve lives. It may not end up as a bed of roses, but the result could surprise. Maybe.

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:25 pm

If Israel blinks, you and I will not be far enough away.

Yep.

If Jews are seen to be “lashing out” then there is no doubt a very good reason for them to be doing so.

FFS – the Holocaust is not ancient history, but the most recent attempt to wipe these “cosmopolitans” off the face of the earth.

Yet, they are back and fighting back – and Winning.

I love the Jewish people.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 10:25 pm

Hi Cats, if you wish to give donations to help Israel, please give to…

Tipped in a few quid, Cassie.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 10:31 pm

People need to remember that Isreal was only created (by force) with U.S. assistance in 1948.

It’s easy for people like us to sit here and argue who’s right or wrong.

Reality proves that it is the side that achieves victory gets to write the history books and paint the other side as the “bad guy”

As the U.S. fades as an empire, Israel will lose its big bad bodyguard, what then?

They are surrounded by enemies.
They can nuke them, sure.

How will other countries affected by the radioactive fallout then perceive Israel?

Also, borders have been constantly rewritten throughout history.

I personally have no stake on this conflict (neither does anyone else here, unless they plan to go and join Hamas or the IDF)

We will see what happens as things move forward.

Bar Beach Swimmer
October 8, 2023 10:33 pm

Cassie @ 10pm.

Very well said.

I don’t know who said “Israel has a unique opportunity”. Nor do I know its context, so I’m taking a stab. Consequently this is a general point about that statement and those similar to it.

That idea of a “unique opportunity” linked always to Israel occurs as a regular trope when atrocities are inflicted on the country. Somehow, Israel is supposed to rise above the barbarity it suffers from terrorism and give way to its persecutors. Whereas other countries – every other country- are fully entitled to respond in kind to protect their land and their people.

Israel will prevail because it must. It must be supported to fight back both for its own sake – it’s right to exist – and for the sake of all other peaceful countries.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:34 pm

Pogria –

Nice sentiments if Israel wasn’t surrounded by 500 million people who really don’t need an awful lot of encouragement to kill Jews as a way to distract themselves from the crap job their leaders have done in ensuring they flourish and prosper as a society.

And if we didn’t have rather largeish Muslim minorities embedded in the West.

I’m not sure if my English is failing me but the balance in the Israeli response is just so crucial. Most of the world has been introduced rather suddenly to the viciousness of Islamic jihad. Needless to say, many, many eyes have been opened.

Go on and grind the entirety of Gaza into the dust. Certainly there will be many who support that response.

But I really thought there would be more on this forum who embraced the concept of nuance. Israel has always held to itself the Samson option but is that the endpoint we all want to see? Why cannot we not leverage simple human greed against Islamic fanaticism? Comfortable, prosperous and peaceful societies are very much less likely to want to upset that societal calm with jihad.

And one of the guests at my wedding died in the Bali bombing, a really sweet American girl who attended the same English-speaking church in Pusan. So Islamic terrorism is personal to me, too.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:35 pm

“It’s easy for people like us to sit here and argue who’s right or wrong.

It’s easy because there is a right side, and there is a wrong side.

“I personally have no stake on this conflict (neither does anyone else here, unless they plan to go and join Hamas or the IDF)”

That might be the case for you, but you know little of others here. I do have a stake, I am Jewish and I have family and friends in Israel.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:36 pm

Plas
I’m not sure when you see a dead kid who’s likely been raped and all her clothes removed lying face down in the back of a truck, a leg danging the opposite way it should be. With a couple of ugly thugs chanting Akbar, we can be even a little neutral.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:38 pm

Rabz –

Love for the Jewish people is what motivates me. They are a blessing to every nation.

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
October 8, 2023 10:38 pm

Mattel releases Stevie Nicks Barbie doll, but it’s already sold out

This one come with a pre installed plastic septum?

https://iloveclassicrock.com/the-real-reason-stevie-nicks-never-got-her-nose-fixed/

Rabz
October 8, 2023 10:38 pm
Salvatore, Iron Publican
October 8, 2023 10:39 pm

Razey Oct 8, 2023 10:06 PM
1. 48 hours given to people in Gaza to leave.
2. Level Gaza to the ground and plough it under.

The drawback Razey, is the people won’t be allowed to leave.
Upon learning of the ultimatum Hamas will turn their short term efforts to threatening (not bluffing) should anyone show signs of leaving.

Anyone who tries to leave, or is suspected of hankering to leave, will be treated as if they’re a Mossad undercover.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:39 pm

Judaism is a religion, not a race. Islam is religion, not a race. Christianity is a religion, not a race.

Wrong, Jews are both an ethnic group and a religion.

Join the dots. This has nothing to do with religion, nor race. It has everything to do with POWER and CONTROL and WEALTH.

Wrong, it has everything to do with religion.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:39 pm

Over 500 Israelis now dead.

Roger
Roger
October 8, 2023 10:40 pm

Noteworthy:

Hamas leadership visited Moscow, met with Lavrov in September 2022 as Moscow’s relations with Israel were under strain due to the invasion of Ukraine.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 10:42 pm

That might be the case for you, but you know little of others here. I do have a stake, I am Jewish and I have family and friends in Israel.

Then board a plane and go fight…

The point you’ve made is exactly what I’m getting at.

You’re Jewish, so you’re understandably biased towards Israel..
As far as you’re concerned, all others are the wrong side.

History ultimately will not care about any moral argument.

There will only be who is left after the conflict…
This is proven time and time again.

To this day, the U.S. is still the only country to have nuked a nation… twice…

Does that make it right?
Does that make us western Allied nations at the time the ‘good guys’

People fight for what their morals and self interest aligns with.

There is no universal ‘right’ or universal ‘wrong’

These are perceptions based on personal feelings and motivations.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 10:43 pm

Hamas declares bloodthirsty war on women in attack on Israel

By jamie walker
Associate Editor
@JamieWalkerOz
Updated 10:03PM October 8, 2023, First published at 9:00PM October 8, 2023
No Comments

The attack came out of the blue of a clear autumnal sky, catching the Israelis utterly by surprise.

All along their bristling border with Gaza and deep into the heartland of the Jewish state, communities that had been at ease in the sleepy quiet of a holiday weekend were engulfed by a hellscape of rocket strikes, gunfire and hostage-taking.

Israel’s vaunted intelligence apparatus had failed: the heavily surveilled network of fences and walls that was supposed to guard against incursion lay breached.
Read Next

The unthinkable was now a living nightmare for Israelis as squads of Hamas fighters roamed the streets of a score of towns and villages in the country’s fortified south, killing or snatching people at will.

Images of bloodied, terrified Israeli women being dragged away cut deep. Seizing female captives appears to have been prioritised by the rampaging Islamist militants. Dozens of women, including active duty Israel Defence Forces personnel, number among the missing who are presumed to have been taken to Gaza to serve as human shields for Hamas or bargaining chips in potential prisoner swaps.

In one confronting video shared widely on social media, a young Israeli woman wearing military-style camo pants and T-shirt was seen to be hauled by her hair from a commandeered IDF vehicle.

Reportedly a captured soldier, she cut a forlorn figure, barefoot and drenched in blood, her wrists cabled-tied behind her back.

Her captors shouted “Allahu Akbar” before they bundled her into a rear seat and sped off. Her fate remains unknown.

A rave party near Kibbutz Re’im, close to the Gaza Strip 90 minutes’ drive from Jerusalem, was attacked from two directions by tightly co-ordinated teams of gunmen who fired indiscriminately into the revellers.

Hundreds fled for their lives into the desert. In the pandemonium, 25-year-old Noa Argamani was grabbed alongside her boyfriend, Avi Nathan.

The young woman was video­ed on the back of a motorcycle sandwiched between two burly Hamas fighters, pleading for her life. Arms outstretched, she screamed in Hebrew: “Don’t kill me. No, no, no.” Her fate, like that of Mr Nathan, is unknown.

Horrifyingly, the body of ­German-born tattoo artist Shani Louk, in her early 20s, was later paraded through the streets of Gaza City by the returning fighters. “We knew she was in the party,” her cousin Tom Weintraub Louk said, after the family recognised her distinctive tattoos and dreadlocked hair from an online video. “She didn’t answer.”

Another 10-second video posted to Telegram showed at least five Israeli women, some with bloodied faces, cowering in the tray of a utility truck. They, too, are un­accounted for.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:43 pm

If Hamas is fighting on all fronts, they have zero hope of preventing a stampede out of the danger spots. Israeli jets are already bombing the shit out of the Hamas controlled zones.It would mean Hamas allows their families to perish. Not a chance.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:44 pm

Jews are unique in that they embody an ethnic group, a religion AND a language.

Not sure any other people group holds that distinction.

I sometimes think of the Biblical scholars who were perplexed by the mentioning of Israel in prophecy when she had ceased to exist. And then – BAM! – a few minutes to midnight on May 15, 1948, there she is.

Pogria
Pogria
October 8, 2023 10:44 pm

People need to remember that Isreal was only created (by force) with U.S. assistance in 1948.

No, Israel was created from the piddling amount of land “gifted” to the Jewish people from what was originally their land. The original territory that was to be Israel was far greater by , I can’t remember properly, ten times. With the Balfour Declaration and the British who placed far more importance on future political allies and trade deals, Israel was whittled down to a fraction of Tasmania. The Jewish Homeland and her people were treated exactly the same way as the people of Botswana. The needs and history of the people were never to stand in the way of trade deals.
I have never questioned why the Israelis fought the British.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:45 pm

“You’re Jewish, so you’re understandably biased towards Israel..
As far as you’re concerned, all others are the wrong side.”

Not biased, I know what is right and what is wrong. Clearly you don’t.

Top Ender
Top Ender
October 8, 2023 10:45 pm

I’m presuming only Stevie and the Buckingham are still with us?

The five members of Fleetwood Mac when the Rumours album came out were Mick Fleetwood, John McVie, Stevie Nicks, Christine McVie and Lindsey Buckingham. Four are still with us – as noted Christine McVie died last year.

MatrixTransform
October 8, 2023 10:47 pm

I’m okay for reinforcements, God Oracle. Thanks for asking, sweetie.

need help with statistics KD … or did Keno and cricket teach you all you need to know?

learn some manners you mouthy clown

Top Ender
Top Ender
October 8, 2023 10:47 pm

Support for the Indigenous voice to parliament and executive government has weakened further heading into the final week of the campaign, with just a third of voters now backing the proposed constitutional change amid a critical loss of support among younger voters.

The Albanese government has also suffered electorally, with Labor’s primary vote slipping to its lowest level since the election and Anthony Albanese’s personal approval rating dipping to a new low as his lead over Liberal leader Peter Dutton narrows to its tightest margin.

An exclusive Newspoll conducted for The Australian shows support for the voice falling a further two points in the past fortnight to 34 per cent as Australians prepare to cast their vote this coming weekend.

Approval for the referendum question is now at the lowest ebb since it was first proposed.

The no vote has risen two points to 58 per cent, with 8 per cent of voters saying they still didn’t know which way they would vote. With the “don’t know” category removed the split becomes 37/63 in favour of a no vote.

Oz

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:49 pm

Then board a plane and go fight…

Really, unless you go fight, you can’t have an opinion? Moreover, why would the IDF take you in without training etc when they have more than enough military to take on these rabid savages? Israel is not appealing for any foreigners to go fight.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 10:49 pm

Not biased, I know what is right and what is wrong. Clearly you don’t.

You completely missed the point…

It’s OK, I expected that.

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 10:51 pm

You completely missed the point…

You’re point is that unless you go fight, you’re not entitled to an opinion while your (opinion) is superior.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
October 8, 2023 10:52 pm

Three Israeli tourists shot dead in Egypt, more wounded. It was a police officer who shot them.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:54 pm

“You’re point is that unless you go fight, you’re not entitled to an opinion while your (opinion) is superior.”

Quite so JC.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 10:54 pm

No, Israel was created from the piddling amount of land “gifted” to the Jewish people from what was originally their land. The original territory that was to be Israel was far greater by , I can’t remember properly, ten times.

Wasn’t it Winston Churchill, who said he created TransJordan “One sunny, summer’s afternoon?’

Bar Beach Swimmer
October 8, 2023 10:54 pm

There is no universal ‘right’ or universal ‘wrong’

Of course there is. All of the great religions understand the concept of the golden rule.

The Ten Commandments specify what again are universal precepts.

Either you’re a very jaded individual or you suffer from that modern pestilence of moral relativism.

cohenite
October 8, 2023 10:55 pm

Biden or at least the vermin with their hands up his wrinkled arse, are giving the iranians the bomb. If Israel doesn’t nuke them now do you think iran will not bomb Israel. In the meantime, carpet bomb Gaza and then turn it into farm land.

On a general principle you CANNOT negotiate or trust muzzies. Taqiyya.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:55 pm

I completely agree that Islam places a different value on human life compared to Christianity or Judaism.

But notice it’s not the wealthy Arabs going all jihadi but rather those with bleak prospects?

The alliances that were built under Trump were incredible. The self-interest of those nations trumped their religious sensitivities. Why not make that circle bigger?

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 10:55 pm

No, Israel was created from the piddling amount of land “gifted” to the Jewish people from what was originally their land. The original territory that was to be Israel was far greater by , I can’t remember properly, ten times. With the Balfour Declaration and the British who placed far more importance on future political allies and trade deals, Israel was whittled down to a fraction of Tasmania. The Jewish Homeland and her people were treated exactly the same way as the people of Botswana. The needs and history of the people were never to stand in the way of trade deals.
I have never questioned why the Israelis fought the British.

The Roman empire used to control far more land than they do now as well.

Borders constantly change throughout time.

Does this constitute the end of a nation?

It remains to be seen.

Is the attack horrific, of course, and Isreal will respond accordingly.

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:56 pm

“It’s OK, I expected that.”

Yes, your sneering is okay too, I expect that when you pop your head up here.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 10:58 pm

And taqiyya is definitely something the Shia Iranians are well-versed in, it having been part of the subterfuge they needed to employ to survive being a heretical minority.

Stuxnet was the previous method the Israelis employed to thwart the Iranians nuclear ambitions. Do you not think they are already planning their next attack?

Cassie of Sydney
October 8, 2023 10:59 pm

“The alliances that were built under Trump were incredible. The self-interest of those nations trumped their religious sensitivities. Why not make that circle bigger?”

Indeed, which is why the Israelis and Saudis are near an agreement of sorts. And this is one of the reasons why Hamas has done what it’s done.

Pogria
Pogria
October 8, 2023 11:00 pm

Nice sentiments if Israel wasn’t surrounded by 500 million people who really don’t need an awful lot of encouragement to kill Jews as a way to distract themselves from the crap job their leaders have done in ensuring they flourish and prosper as a society.

Luzu,
you have completely contradicted yourself. You gave us a story about the poor, downtrodden pally’s and Iranians who don’t really like their leadership but, ooh, poor things, there is nothing they can do. In the above sentence, you then inform us there are 500 MILLION of them who don’t need much encouragement to kill Jews. Then why the f*ck don’t they turn on their “oppressive” leaders and kill them?
Because they have NO problem with killing Jews.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 11:00 pm

Of course there is. All of the great religions understand the concept of the golden rule.

The Ten Commandments specify what again are universal precepts.

Either you’re a very jaded individual or you suffer from that modern pestilence of moral relativism.

I’m assuming you’re Christian/catholic then

You’re presupposing that the bible and the 10 commandments are absolute.

These are western values, generally ingrained in our culture.

What happens when a society does not share your values?

What happens if an individual does not share your values?

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 11:02 pm

Crinkite

Enuff nuking tonight. Start again with fresh nuking in the morning. If israel had fired as many nukes as you’ve said “nukes” today, the mid-east deserts would’ve turned into glass.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 11:03 pm

Yes, your sneering is okay too, I expect that when you pop your head up here.

More resignation than anything…
You said you were Jewish and have family over there.

You have an understandable viewpont based on who you are…

JC
JC
October 8, 2023 11:04 pm

These are western values, generally ingrained in our culture.

About 8 of them could be considered universal.

What happens when a society does not share your values?

What happens if an individual does not share your values?

You have to describe the circumstance.

Arky
October 8, 2023 11:05 pm

cohenite
Oct 8, 2023 10:55 PM

Biden or at least the vermin with their hands up his wrinkled arse, are giving the iranians the bomb.

..
It isn’t the USA who is working with the Iranians on nukes:
..

However, Western officials said they were not sure if Russia was satisfied by guarantees it could carry out nuclear projects under the 2015 deal or if it wanted the “right to free and full trade, economic and investment cooperation and military-technical cooperation” with Iran that Lavrov sought on March 5.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russia-says-it-has-written-guarantees-iran-nuclear-deal-2022-03-15/

..

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
October 8, 2023 11:06 pm

perplexed by the mentioning of Israel in prophecy when she had ceased to exist. And then – BAM! – a few minutes to midnight on May 15, 1948, there she is.

Sure, a mystical supernatural divine intervention is one way of explaining the (re)creation of Israel.
A small group of Christian and Jewish members of the industrial-military complex inventing Biblical-scale nuclear weapons and tending to use them to get their way, including making their favourite Bible prophecy come true, is another way to explain it.
I’d recommend the earthly option until proven otherwise.

Bar Beach Swimmer
October 8, 2023 11:07 pm

These are western values, generally ingrained in our culture.

Yes.

What happens when a society does not share your values?

What society? Within the culture or external to it?

What happens if an individual does not share your values?

Depends on how many individuals you’re talking about. If too many, pressures may arise. If the result is mayhem creating destruction the society will deal with it.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
October 8, 2023 11:08 pm

Bibi in the war room, a short while ago.
Seated are from left, Bibi Netanyahu, Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, & the uniformed chap is Lt. General Herzi Halevi, Chief of the General Staff (or top dog of the IDF)

Bar Beach Swimmer
October 8, 2023 11:10 pm

Arky,
I was going through my phone bookmarked sites and came across your Rumble. I rewatched those skits you did on Andrews’ lockdowns – as I said at the time, some great comedy. Well done.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 11:12 pm

Bernard Montgomery had the right idea – commanding British forces, in Palestine, in the 1930’s, when suicide bombings became popular, he ordered that the remains of any suicide bombers be buried with a dead pig thrown into the grave.

Plasmamortar
Plasmamortar
October 8, 2023 11:13 pm

What society? Within the culture or external to it?

Could be either.
We have 50 years of ‘Multiculturalism’ here, so it might depend on where you decide to go.

Depends on how many individuals you’re talking about. If too many, pressures may arise. If the result is mayhem creating destruction the society will deal with it.

Ultimately if people cannot resolve their differences in a civil manner, even on an individual level, we humans devoted into ‘might makes right’.

This doesn’t prove anything, it’s just human nature, we love beating the shit out of and killing each other.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
October 8, 2023 11:13 pm

Israel war: German tattoo artist Shani Louk killed by terrorists who filmed themselves spitting on her

Arky
October 8, 2023 11:14 pm

Bar Beach Swimmer
Oct 8, 2023 11:10 PM

..
Dan.
An easy target to be sure. So good to see the back of him.

Luzu
Luzu
October 8, 2023 11:24 pm

Pogria –

It is indeed my English language skills that have let me down. I have never said or thought that the poor Palis are downtrodden and unable to do anything. What I should have made clear is that they would probably be as relieved as anyone with the removal of Hamas as their governing body.

Also, it wouldn’t be the citizens of those nations menacing Israel but their armed forces. The very same armed forces that can be easily turned on domestic populations. Surely you see that? We all remember the demonstrations in Iran that were brutally put down not so long ago?

Z2KA –

I remarked to my sons that any bodies of terrorists killed in Israel should be fed to pigs. And livestreamed. Use their superstitions against them in the most productive way possible.

Salvatore, Iron Publican
October 8, 2023 11:24 pm

German tattoo artist Shani Louk held & used an Israeli passport. She posted on social media using the pronoun “us” about the Israeli people.

Her mum sounds 200% German, though my German language is a little rusty & I’m not able to tell a fluent German speaker from a native one.

The video of Ms Louk being carted around in the back of the ute is one of the first ones I stumbled on yesterday morning, on a Palestinian account skiting that she was an Israeli soldier & was alive. Both claims seemed suspect upon even a quick glance at the file.
Though there’s many other videos showing greater degree (far greater) of atrocity, for intangible reasons the video of her had quite some impact.

It wasn’t just me, as the video & images of her have pretty much become a contender for the leading image of the initial Hamas incursion.
Part of this may be that so many images of her were so readily available online, in all of which she seems a whimsical gamine.

The bastards in the video with her, they’re going to wish they’d hidden their faces better. For sure they’ll be on the target list of a “Wrath of God” style operation.

Armadillo
Armadillo
October 8, 2023 11:32 pm

Wrong, Jews are both an ethnic group and a religion.

With all due respect Cassie, history pre-dates Moses. Would you also argue that Aborigines and “Dreamtime” are both an ethnic group and a religion (of sorts)? That would be an admission of being brainwashed. Believing in a rainbow serpent.

Wrong, it has everything to do with religion.

Wrong Cassie. It has everything to do with betrayal. The most religious of men are quite often the biggest sinners.

Arky
October 8, 2023 11:42 pm

In summary:
It’s Russia who work with Iran on nuclear.
It’s Iran who supply Russia with drones to bomb the Ukraine.
It is Iran who back Hezbollah and Hamas to kill Israelis.
It is Russia and Iran who fight together in Syria.
..
But everything is the USA’s fault.

Muddy
Muddy
October 8, 2023 11:50 pm

Calls for de-escalation are based on profound ignorance.
No situation, from a minor verbal disagreement to armed violence, can be ‘de-escalated’ once it has reached crisis point.
De-escalation is a preventative action, not a response to something that has already occurred (escalation of tension to crisis point).
It then becomes crisis management.

This is not an attempt at pedantry, but pointing out that calls from political actors for one or both sides (normally the former) to de-escalate, are applied to constrain the actions of the recipient of the demand (via public opinion); an impossible task, given that the crisis has already occurred.

I’m not explaining this well, I know, but calls for de-escalation imply that such actions are possible when they are clearly not. This misleads the public into believing that when the crisis continues, responsibility for the same must be due to the participant – in this case, Israel – which ‘refused’ to heed the calls of the wise to ‘de-escalate.’

To recap: It is now a case of crisis management. There is NO de-escalation of tensions that have already reached crisis point.

Muddy
Muddy
October 8, 2023 11:58 pm

The bastards in the video with her, they’re going to wish they’d hidden their faces better.

One imagines there would be some internal competition to become the individual who tags them. Tag and release? Not so much.

Muddy
Muddy
October 9, 2023 12:33 am

Huh. Nu Fred. Nuff sed.

Oh come on
Oh come on
October 9, 2023 12:40 am

[the US] should undertake a 1973-like massive arms lift of key munitions to Israel

Well, most of what it could have sent is in scraps scattered over the battlefields of eastern Ukraine.

VDH isn’t always very sound on this kind of thing. In 1973, Israel was fighting nation-state opponents equipped with Soviet hardware in conventional, high intensity warfare. The Soviets undertook a similar resupply to the Egyptians and Syrians to make up for their battlefield losses, too.

Today is not 1973. Israel already has more than enough hardware to deal with Hamas – in this regard it’s an entirely lopsided conflict. The difficulty is going to be in urban conflict and engaging an enemy that makes itself indistinguishable from civilians and is perfectly happy for 20 of its soldiers to die in the process of killing one Israeli soldier.

Today is not 2006, either. I suspect Israeli public today is less concerned about world opinion than it was then, and there will be an expectation that this is the conflict that will settle the dispute definitively. My guess is there’s going to be a two state imposition at the end of this road.

Robert Sewell
October 9, 2023 3:46 am

Luzu:

Vengeance might feel good in the now but it rarely works out long term.

Didn’t work well in 1918-19, but by crikey it worked in 1945.

Robert Sewell
October 9, 2023 4:02 am

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

Oct 8, 2023 9:28 PM
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/10/sydney-university-dickheads-chanting-in-support-of-terrorists.html
Their parents probably chanted “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh – the N.L.F. is gunna win.”

Then turned their backs as a million South Vietnamese perished in the South China Sea, or were forced into the extermination camps.

Robert Sewell
October 9, 2023 4:12 am

Cassie of Sydney
Oct 8, 2023 10:10 PM

“The Iranian people are largely as unhappy with their government as the rest of us are. They simply do not have the means to remove them.”

Bullshit, Cassie.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
October 9, 2023 6:29 am

Good shots!

—-

steveinman:

Third World Street Justice

Cassie of Sydney
October 9, 2023 6:40 am

““The Iranian people are largely as unhappy with their government as the rest of us are. They simply do not have the means to remove them.””

Rober, that was Luzu who wrote that. I simply agreed with her words.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
October 9, 2023 6:40 am

A worthy beating.

—–

steveinman:

Brazilian Justice

Cassie of Sydney
October 9, 2023 6:43 am

Beginning under Obama with the “Iran deal”, a deal then stopped by Trump, and quickly resumed by Biden, the USA has actively funded Iran’s nuclear programme.

Boambee John
Boambee John
October 9, 2023 8:00 am

Plasmamortar
Oct 8, 2023 11:03 PM
Yes, your sneering is okay too, I expect that when you pop your head up here.

More resignation than anything…
You said you were Jewish and have family over there.

You have an understandable viewpont based on who you are…

I’m not Jewish, nor do I have family in the ME, I support Cassie, JC, BBS, Pogria and others on this subject.

Boambee John
Boambee John
October 9, 2023 8:23 am

Robert Sewell
Oct 9, 2023 4:02 AM
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha

Oct 8, 2023 9:28 PM
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2023/10/sydney-university-dickheads-chanting-in-support-of-terrorists.html
Their parents probably chanted “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh – the N.L.F. is gunna win.”

Then turned their backs as a million South Vietnamese perished in the South China Sea, or were forced into the extermination camps.

Not just South Vietnamese.

A bloke I know was in the AATTV, training a Cambodian battalion. After Pol Pot took over, the battalion was loaded into trucks, taken into the jungle, and machine gunned.

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