Open Thread – Mon 27 Nov 2023


Fifth Avenue in Winter, Childe Hassam, 1890

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Katzenjammer
Katzenjammer
November 28, 2023 8:02 pm

Also breaking news, for anyone who hasn’t watched brekky tv, is shopping decisions are 90% made by ‘chicks’.

There’s so many intellectual academic studies of the gender gap in earnings, but none about the gender gap in spending. Women spend more of male earnings than males spend of female earnings. That’s the proposition that should be tested. Statistically women outlive men, so get to finally spend their combined super, make use of their purchased home for years more than their male mate, and decide by their will who will benefit from their combined efforts, for assets usually contributed more by the male’s earnings.

MatrixTransform
November 28, 2023 8:03 pm

the sanctity of life

it’s the suffering that gets me

my poor old step-father, I can still see his face while he shouldered that last burden

you know, as a bloke, there’s the feeling … release me from my burden

and ffs … when it’s time, at least let me release myself from that burden

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:05 pm

It’s virtue signalling. Just like the wokies, but with an older set of ‘virtues’.”

What a load of codswallop.

Alamak!
November 28, 2023 8:05 pm

The absolutism of the those opposed to euthanasia doesn’t make sense to me.

Some matters are personal choices to be justified to your choice of deity and possibly close family, nobody else. I can see arguments for and against but would those debating points truly sway anyone with a difficult choice to make.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:05 pm

I am torn about euthanasia.

Roughly fifty years ago in about Year 7 we had a public speaking session in English, as you do. I drew Euthanasia as my topic. I had absolutely no idea what Euthanasia actually was, but I waffled for a couple minutes and sat down. I got a bare pass mark.

This is symptomatic of the education system that they were already doing woke rubbish fifty years ago. Life is a gift from God, should we extinguish it?

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 8:06 pm

A friend has MND and has opted for VAD.

Similarly the guy on 7:30 last night.

Arky
November 28, 2023 8:07 pm

calli
Nov 28, 2023 5:19 PM
LOL! Sounds like a Rogers and Hammerstein number…The Happy Downticker

..
No, I believe the Happy Downticker has a column in Penthouse magazine.

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 8:07 pm

DrBeauGan
Nov 28, 2023 7:58 PM

It’s virtue signalling.

Says the prince of virtue signalling.

Gilas
Gilas
November 28, 2023 8:08 pm

Cassie of Sydney
Nov 28, 2023 7:16 PM

As you all know a few months ago my stepfather fell badly, and he ended up at RPA, followed by another hospital. He is now in an aged care facility, a good one.. etc..

A great example of the power of simple, attentive care, such as can be provided in a good nursing home. The only other ingredient is time.
Linking into the local PallCare service would also be useful, as things can deteriorate unpredictably and quickly. Unnecessary suffering would then be the result.
They would assess the situation and provide contact details if/when the need arises.

VAD is the sterile, mechanistic approach to life/death such as the one exemplified in a Fritz Lang movie.
It was first proposed by a Green-tard ?Meredith Burgmann in NSW.
Enough said.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 28, 2023 8:11 pm

Today I saw the movie Napoleon with seven girlfriends at a 10am session that had only one other couple as the audience. Made me think that the consistently bad reviews were really turning people off, given that the economic situation also meant movie-goers were being choosey. Which I consider is a shame, for the movie was a lot better than I’d expected. I only went with the girls (none under 60, lol) because Hairy refused to go and see it with me. Bad history, bad reviews, Sheila’s movie, he said as I got up early to see it.

The reviews say it has a genre problem, and that is true. There is a dominating love story with Josephine, with whom one reviewer has said Napoleon is depicted as a ‘man child’, and a lot of battle scenes with historically situating sub-heads saying which battle carnage this is ob screen and where. At our usual post-movie lunch ‘the girls’ all enjoyed the love story, although one, perhaps more prudish, didn’t like the simulated sexual positions, albeit basically normal sex. In the view of the extensive female expertise drawn from lived experience within our group, Napoleon’s dependence on and sexual obsession with Josephine wasn’t an unbelievable scenario. We know how emotionally labile and silly some men with the world at their feet can be, especially if they also have cold-hearted mothers. Item: look no further than Edward VII or latterly, Prince Harry. Item: various husbands.

Regarding the historical context, some of ‘the girls’ also felt they’d been educated by the movie: I only did geography at school, never history, said one. About half of them have uni degrees. We all thought the carnage although horrific was very well done, especially at Austerlitz on the ice. Freak-out scenes of dying men and animals in a swirling cocktail of blood under ice. And we were glad that the animal carnage was in its extremes likely all done by high tech methods harming no actual warhorse. The movie ends on the number killed in Napoleon’s battles. On the way through it tries to give a thumbnail sketch of who was fighting whom but never really got to grips with why, although some sense of the death of the old order and a shift to something new was there, leading to lunch discussions of why a return to Emperorship was so attractive to the people to say nothing of its appeal the new Emperor Napoleon himself.

If this movie was beefed up in marketing for a younger set it would probably be a useful addition to what is very limited general knowledge now of this period. It’s a lot better than their attachment to shows such as Bridgerton anyway, for it depicts the Napoleonic period with scenic accuracy, and its inaccuracies for afficionados may not matter too much. A few of the girls intended to look it all up on Google/Wiki now their interest had been sparked. A good thing, I judge.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 8:12 pm

Cassie of Sydney
Nov 28, 2023 7:50 PM
I believe in the absolutism of the sanctity of life.

What does that mean? Should we at all costs avoid taking a child’s life even if doing so we could kill 100 terrorists? Where’s the line?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:12 pm

I recall the Euthanasia public speaking thing vividly because I was terrified out of my mind. Like the first time I even spoke at a conference, which was a decade later in Perth. I was so off the planet I had to learn the whole speech by rote and gave it in a daze.

Weirdly, after that, I got quite good at such things with practice, and I can do a spiel rather convincingly now. Go figure.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:12 pm

Euthanasia

I never heard the word ‘euthanasia’ in Year 7, or Year 8, or Year 9, or even Year 12. The first time I ever heard the word ‘euthanasia’ was in the late 1980s, when it became a thing.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 28, 2023 8:13 pm

Life is a gift from God, should we extinguish it?

It’s the theologically inclined who can think up reasons for treating a human being with less mercy than they would a dog or a horse in their death throes.

Katzenjammer
Katzenjammer
November 28, 2023 8:13 pm

The absolutism of the those opposed to euthanasia doesn’t make sense to me

Suicide isn’t illegal. People are allowed to kill themselves however they wish. It’s odd though that if it’s not condoned by the state it’s considered a tragedy, and if it’s state sanctioned it’s a highly dignified activity. The purpose of euthanasia legislation and regulations is to release those who assist in someone’s death from charges of manslaughter or murder. Turn it into a fake “medical intervention” where someone with a certificate and a white gown says “ok” to release themselves from potential charges of murder for administration of toxic poison.

A dignified death is facing it bravely with your boots on, however it comes.

Boambee John
Boambee John
November 28, 2023 8:13 pm

Bruce of Newcastle
Nov 28, 2023 6:53 PM
Kellogg’s Fruit Loops are now qwerty and Tony the Tiger of Frosted Flakes fame is a tranny.

Fruit Loops have always been a bit QWERTY. There was a sitcom back around the 1980s, featuring one character who presented as homosexual. One of the others occasionally offered him Fruit Loops, with emphasis on the first word.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:14 pm

Should we at all costs avoid taking a child’s life even if doing so we could kill 100 terrorists?

What does that mean?

Roger
Roger
November 28, 2023 8:15 pm

I think there’s a lack of insight, perhaps bordering on denial, among the signatories as to how we got to this point.

It’s time liberals (small l, non-leftist) examined their assumptions about migration.

Those who emigrate to this country now aren’t necessarily willing to set aside ancient hatreds, join hands and sing kumbaya at the local multicultural festival when part of their modern cultural identity is predicated on historically based antipathy to another, whether Jewish or European. It’s not just Muslims from the ME. Anti-colonialist rhetoric was expressed by African and sub-continental migrants during the Voice debate, which the ABC & SBS gladly publicised.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:15 pm

Katzenjammer
Nov 28, 2023 8:13 PM’

Well said.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:16 pm

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Nov 28, 2023 8:11 PM

Thanks Lizzie, I still want to see it, I’ll take Mum.

Roger
Roger
November 28, 2023 8:17 pm

It’s virtue signalling. Just like the wokies, but with an older set of ‘virtues’.”

Virtue is not a movable feast, adjusted to suit the times.

cohenite
November 28, 2023 8:18 pm

The problem with voluntary euthanasia is this:

The Dutch government on Friday gave euthanasia for children under 12 the green light, permitting mercy deaths for young minors suffering “unbearably and without hope”. Children over 12 can already ask for euthanasia, with mandatory parental consent until they reach 16.

Natural extension of abortion I guess.

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 8:20 pm

Vicki
Nov 28, 2023 7:47 PM
Leaving Saigon with no regrets.

One of the things that amazed us most was the somewhat nonchalant attitude towards the former enemy. We visited years ago with friends and a guy who was offering the blokes the opportunity to fire a number of weapons enthusiastically inquired if their fathers fought in the war. I suppose business enterprise trumps old enmities.

We made two stops in Vietnam while on a cruise in 2010. On both shore tours our tour guides were very scathing about their historical enemy China, never even mentioned the US. What’s more the US dollar was the most desirable currency requested by hawkers at markets and the price signs were in US dollars. They reluctantly accepted the Australian money as we didn’t have either the US or Vietnamese currency with us.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 8:20 pm

Alamak!
Nov 28, 2023 8:05 PM
The absolutism of the those opposed to euthanasia doesn’t make sense to me.

Some matters are personal choices to be justified to your choice of deity and possibly close family, nobody else. I can see arguments for and against but would those debating points truly sway anyone with a difficult choice to make.

That reminds me of Nietzsche’s idea that an individual’s morality and philosophy can be influenced by their personality. Which is one reason why he was critical of Schopenhauer and Kant. Nietzsche has a point. We like to think about deepest beliefs and convictions arise from rational deliberation. That can be true but we need to also remember that those qualities can also be expressions of our character.

The difference between people like myself and those opposed to euthanasia is I am happy to let them have exercise their beliefs but they are opposed to me and others exercising our beliefs.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:23 pm

Lizzie – That is one of the most entertaining movie reviews I’ve read, and very decent. From what I have been looking at Ridley Scott was intending what he did with Gladiator, which is aiming for fun and entertainment loosely based on history. But with a nice subtle hook to get the plebs interested in history! My mum and step father who were very into history and literature and stuff were sceptical when Gladiator came out. I told them they had to go see it. Which they did and loved.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 8:24 pm

Life is a gift from God, should we extinguish it?

That is one angle. I might offer another one. About six months after my stroke I had been transferred to the rehab hospital as there was nothing more the treating hospital could do. I still had around 7 tubes coming out of me and cannula which required changing periodically, often with considerable pain. I was incontinent and even an attempt to pee could result in disaster. I couldn’t speak and was communicating via an “alphabet board”. I couldn’t eat or drink but could wash water around my mouth and spit it out. I’ll confess that was about the only time I really thought “What if this is as good as it gets?”

Delta A
Delta A
November 28, 2023 8:24 pm

All we can do is appreciate the comfort accorded as we wish for ourselves.

This is true, ranga.

On a lighter note: our large, extended family had the privilege of sitting with SiL’s mother during her last weeks. She was not in pain and daily received excellent care from the local palliative team.

Some time after she passed, surrounded by her nearest and dearest, I said to Daughter that I would be very happy to die under the same circumstances, with so much loving care.

“Fine,” said she who can be so gentle, ” As long as you don’t give any trouble.”

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 28, 2023 8:24 pm

lol. Hairy now says no battle of Napoleon was fought on ice, and am I sure it was not Borodino? Nope, can’t remember, I say, immediately uncertain. So there you are, something to check up on. Do I know my Austerlitz from my Borodina? he laughs. But regardless of that, the under-ice scenes will stay with me forever. The sheer brutality of full-pitched battles once more brought home on the screen, in full Dolby sound this one.

Watching ‘Band of Brothers’ poor little Attapuss finds even our TV Sound Bar far too much for him, for he flees when the action really hots up. Like fireworks nite.

Robert Sewell
November 28, 2023 8:25 pm

H B Bear

Nov 28, 2023 7:05 PM
Breaking news: all Australian TV advertisements still portray blokes as idiots and chicks as superwomen.

That’s fine while shopping remains women’s work.

I have never let a woman do the shopping unsupervised. Resupply is a complex task and a close eye must be kept on a balance of necessities and other goods.
Besides, they always forget the Tim Tams and ice cream.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 8:26 pm

Katzenjammer
Nov 28, 2023 8:13 PM
The absolutism of the those opposed to euthanasia doesn’t make sense to me

Suicide isn’t illegal. People are allowed to kill themselves however they wish. It’s odd though that if it’s not condoned by the state it’s considered a tragedy, and if it’s state sanctioned it’s a highly dignified activity. The purpose of euthanasia legislation and regulations is to release those who assist in someone’s death from charges of manslaughter or murder. Turn it into a fake “medical intervention” where someone with a certificate and a white gown says “ok” to release themselves from potential charges of murder for administration of toxic poison.

A dignified death is facing it bravely with your boots on, however it comes.

Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death? That’s an individual choice.
Many people with terminal illnesses are physically incapable of suicide so are denied that choice. So you want them to suffer until death because they are incapable of suicide.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 8:27 pm

Cassie of Sydney
Nov 28, 2023 8:14 PM
Should we at all costs avoid taking a child’s life even if doing so we could kill 100 terrorists?

What does that mean?

Dodging the question.

Roger
Roger
November 28, 2023 8:29 pm

I’ll confess that was about the only time I really thought “What if this is as good as it gets?”

Understandable in the circumstances.

I’m glad you pulled through though.

And not just because of the one-liners, although they do brighten my day considerably.

😀

‘night.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:30 pm

I never heard the word ‘euthanasia’ in Year 7, or Year 8, or Year 9, or even Year 12.

Early seventies Cassie, in a country school even. Macksville High.

Perhaps the sixties weird stuff was just starting to percolate. Now it has metastasized completely into fatal cancer of civilization.

Fair Shake
Fair Shake
November 28, 2023 8:31 pm

For Napolean history buffs I can recommend podcast called ‘The Rest is History’ episodes 382-3 cover the young Napolean.

He did like his women on the smelly side.

JC
JC
November 28, 2023 8:31 pm

‘ve experienced two versions of euthanasia; one was diabolical. My mother had a fall, causing a brain bleed on both sides. It was touch-and-go when she came off life support, but she managed to pull through. Through the interim, she experienced two heart attacks, but she still made it. The palliative doctor was a complete dick, pressuring me to decide to remove feeding and water. I finally told him to back off, and if he continued to press, I would report him to the hospital and the medical board through a lawyer. He backed off quickly. It was a large public hospital. My mother survived for 7 years after that, though not in the best way.

Our dear friend was diagnosed with breast cancer around 2007 or so. She had surgery, and about 2 years later, it was found to have spread to bone cancer. She regularly went in for chemo and was a real trooper. The treatment lasted for about a decade or more. Finally, she was diagnosed with an independent, aggressive brain tumor and given about 12 months of survival. She lasted until the final days, when she began to lose her speech and faculties and pulled the plug. I can’t see anything wrong with her decision, as she went through various agonizing stages of cancer and treatment for over a decade.

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 28, 2023 8:32 pm

Virtue is not a movable feast, adjusted to suit the times.

I agree, Roger, but the wokies don’t.

Johnny Rotten
Johnny Rotten
November 28, 2023 8:33 pm

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

– George Orwell

Delta A
Delta A
November 28, 2023 8:35 pm

I’ll confess that was about the only time I really thought “What if this is as good as it gets?”

I hope that now you see a brighter side than those dark days. You are a Cat gem, a ready wit to entertain us every day.

I’m sure it’s not easy to recall those early days after your accident, or to share your concerns with a bunch of strangers. But you’re made of stern stuff, Bear. I admire that. And that’s enough schmaltz. I know that you would abhor anything bordering on sympathy.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 8:36 pm

Early seventies Cassie, in a country school even. Macksville High.

Yes, I was in primary school in the mid to late seventies, never heard the word “euthanasia” mentioned. Not once, not ever.

Lee
Lee
November 28, 2023 8:37 pm

lol. Hairy now says no battle of Napoleon was fought on ice, and am I sure it was not Borodino?

I can think of at least one non-Napoleonic battle that was: the Battle of Lake Peipus, between Russians and the Teutonic Order which was the subject of a famous Sergei Eisenstein film, Alexander Nevsky (1938).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice

Salvatore, Iron Publican
November 28, 2023 8:38 pm

Lizzie: If you’re watching Band of Brothers, a good companion is to find a website that corrects the errors of fact in the story, episode by episode.

Not just the blending & truncating that was required to condense the story into watchable series.
The brief text at the end of each episode has some stupefyingly inaccurate write-ups on what happened to various characters, or how they ended up in later years.

Am unable to find the website I used, & cannot find one is well constructed or as good.

JC
JC
November 28, 2023 8:39 pm

Cronkite

There are certain illnesses in kids that don’t allow them to progress beyond a certain age. The final days are pretty brutal.

There’s one that’s similar to Huntington’s disease but only hits the kids. I forget the name, but I’m sure John H or Gilas would know. There’s no cure. If parents choose to terminate at that very final stage, I can’t be cross with them.

Fair Shake
Fair Shake
November 28, 2023 8:39 pm

Its that time of year when our organisation’s HR requires us to complete Self Reflection. How we went for the year vs our targets, What did we achieve, how we led our teams, collaborated, embraced change etc. I struggle to put it down in corporate speak so that it reads well.

Low and behold AI! I chuck in a question to chatgbt …’How might I have modelled this behaviour…’

Kapow! The answers are 80% there. Copy paste and some adjustments to reflect actual achievements. Bang, job done!

Who would have thunk a corporate tool could deliver fluent corporate speak!

Robert Sewell
November 28, 2023 8:42 pm

I really don’t give a rancid rats arse about others situations, but I’ve left PoA and living will with my two sisters to switch me off if the think it’s OK. No complex decision tree, just the vibe.
I know they love me and want to see me dead.
🙂

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 8:43 pm

I have never let a woman do the shopping unsupervised. Resupply is a complex task and a close eye must be kept on a balance of necessities and other goods.
Besides, they always forget the Tim Tams and ice cream.

That made me smile. My late husband always bought more than I did, I tend to stick to the shopping list, he shopped by sight.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:44 pm

H B – I’m glad that you have hung in there, stroke is shitty. It’s in my own genes on both sides of my family, but I’ve been spared thus far.

A hero of mine was a guy called Johnny Farese. He was a Christian and despite being utterly disabled managed to do wonderful things. He designed websites for churches and maintained a prayer email list which we drew upon for a long time. For his last few years he was only able to run a computer by his eyes and breath, they were the only things he had left. Finally he went to God in his early fifties.

He is an inspiration to me that life can still be lived even when you have absolutely nothing. He would’ve been a fine Cat I think.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 8:45 pm

Many people with terminal illnesses are physically incapable of suicide so are denied that choice. So you want them to suffer until death because they are incapable of suicide.

I’m not even sure suffering is an adequate criterion. There was one guy at the acquired brain injury who was the text book example of a vegetable, for want of a better word. Not sure what happened to him but he was stuffed – could grab your hand if you held it out but that was about it. I was there for over 2 years and to an untrained observer his condition did not change, although nurses and others said he was improving. As outside observers I’m not sure how you could begin to assess his quality of life,

JC
JC
November 28, 2023 8:47 pm

Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death?

There’s no such thing as a dignified death. Death is brutal for all concerned and it’s annihilation. If there’s no afterlife, or haven’t behaved, eternity isn’t going to be nice for you. Death sucks, whichever way you want to curve-ball.

Lee
Lee
November 28, 2023 8:47 pm

The Dutch government on Friday gave euthanasia for children under 12 the green light, permitting mercy deaths for young minors suffering “unbearably and without hope”. Children over 12 can already ask for euthanasia, with mandatory parental consent until they reach 16.

“Unbearably and without hope” – and what exactly does that mean?

Could it include something like the severely disabled guy in Canada whose doctor made him the unsolicited and utterly outrageous recommendation of a medically-assisted death, because he couldn’t afford facilities which would help improve his situation greatly?

Robert Sewell
November 28, 2023 8:50 pm

Delta A:

Some time after she passed, surrounded by her nearest and dearest, I said to Daughter that I would be very happy to die under the same circumstances, with so much loving care.
“Fine,” said she who can be so gentle, ” As long as you don’t give any trouble.”

Sounds just like my sisters – go out with a grin.

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 8:53 pm

Cassie of Sydney
Nov 28, 2023 8:36 PM
Early seventies Cassie, in a country school even. Macksville High.

Yes, I was in primary school in the mid to late seventies, never heard the word “euthanasia” mentioned. Not once, not ever.

Bruce, I was in high school in early 70s, Sydney’s eastern suburbs, and had not heard about euthanasia during the entire time. Can’t remember exactly when it became an issue that was mentioned in the media though probably not until late 80s or even later.

Lee
Lee
November 28, 2023 8:56 pm

The first time I heard the word “euthanasia” was when I was in my early twenties, back in the 1980s.

I assumed the person was talking about the youth in Asia!

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 8:57 pm

Crossie – It was English, we got a bunch of topics to speak upon. I can’t remember what the rest of my classmates had as topics but I damned well recall what I got. Terror is a great memory aid!

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 8:58 pm

The Brittany thing heating up in the West too. If you’ve got to litigate, best to have Martin Bennett on your side. Stay tuned.

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 8:59 pm

Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death?

What happens when the state starts encouraging it like Canada?

Katzenjammer
Katzenjammer
November 28, 2023 9:00 pm

Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death? That’s an individual choice.

If you think it’s dignified to avoid difficulty then leave early. You’ll never know what you missed.

Is it also a personal choice to be aborted or not? Both are companions of the idea that we somehow own life, but looking at both, there’s irreconcilable internal inconsistencies – at one end someone else owns the life that I insist I own at the other end. So if this theory means ownership of my life has shifted from one person to another without my say so, then I don’t really own it after all. So if you cop out early, whose life has been terninated?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 9:03 pm

This is what English was like as a subject in the late seventies. In Year 10 in the SC I placed in the top 10% of the state. In year 12 in the HSC I placed in the bottom 30% of the state.

We did a straw poll once in our honours Chemistry lab, it turned out almost half of us had failed HSC English. Most of us then went on and did PhDs.

I think it was an early sign what was happening to the school system. On the other hand I have never liked Charles Dickens, so there’s that.

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 9:03 pm

A hero of mine was a guy called Johnny Farese. He was a Christian and despite being utterly disabled managed to do wonderful things. He designed websites for churches and maintained a prayer email list which we drew upon for a long time. For his last few years he was only able to run a computer by his eyes and breathe, they were the only things he had left. Finally he went to God in his early fifties.

This reminds me of the Mark Wahlberg movie Father Stu that was based on a true story. It’s amazing what people can do once they decide to do it even in the face of horrible obstacles.

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 9:07 pm

Bruce of Newcastle
Nov 28, 2023 8:57 PM
Crossie – It was English, we got a bunch of topics to speak upon. I can’t remember what the rest of my classmates had as topics but I damned well recall what I got. Terror is a great memory aid!

Probably depended on the teacher in your case who might have wanted to make you students look up the meaning of unfamiliar words and go from there.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 9:07 pm

As has been intimated above, VAD really only seeks to provide protection to people who are involved in a process that has been occurring informally probably as long as history. I recognise that some people may have difficulties with it, speaking personally I’m not sure I do at the broadest level. As always the difficulty is on the margins. I’m not sure you can dismiss the slippery slope argument outright.

Robert Sewell
November 28, 2023 9:08 pm

Email from Bernard Gaynor:

Dear Robert,
This email is packed with updates but the key take away is this: when we fight, we win!
On Sunday we successfully prevented a hostile LGBT mob incited by a Greens political candidate from forming at the front of a large Catholic family’s home.
Logan City Council has removed all books written by child porn cartoonist Ken Akamatsu.
The Classification Review Board court case has revealed that less than 2% of those who lodged a public submissions believed that Gender Queer should be classified as an unrestricted publication.
Just today Garry Burns has admitted that he has refused to comply with court orders.

It’d be nice to see some donations go his way…

Crossie
Crossie
November 28, 2023 9:12 pm

I think it was an early sign what was happening to the school system. On the other hand I have never liked Charles Dickens, so there’s that.

I loved Dickens, Austen and even Shakespeare and loathed Lord Of The Flies but then I went to an all girls school.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 28, 2023 9:13 pm

That Pauline Hansen speech. They don’t like it up ’em…

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 28, 2023 9:15 pm

H B Bear

Nov 28, 2023 8:06 PM

A friend has MND and has opted for VAD.

Similarly the guy on 7:30 last night.

I didn’t see it, but I could totally understand someone wanting to pull the pin in that circumstance.

Delta A
Delta A
November 28, 2023 9:17 pm

Sounds just like my sisters

I suspect it means that they love us, Winnie.

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 9:20 pm

I could totally understand someone wanting to pull the pin in that circumstance.

So do I if no outside pressure is given, Sancho.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 9:22 pm

Katzenjammer
Nov 28, 2023 9:00 PM
Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death? That’s an individual choice.

If you think it’s dignified to avoid difficulty then leave early. You’ll never know what you missed.

They most certainly do know what they have missed because they have done their homework, they know how a natural progression towards death will be, and may even have known others gone down that path. Anyone who thinks chronic debilitating pain is meaningful hasn’t suffered enough.

Often people with terminal illnesses become unconscious and\delirious before they die. People who choose euthanasia rather than a prolonged painful end are the ones facing death “with their boots on”. Your assertion that euthanasia is not dignified ignores the reality that it takes a lot of courage to choose death.

Ownership is irrelevant. Life doesn’t own me and I don’t own it. If you want to invoke God then ask IT why so many pregnancies don’t go to term(25-40%). If IT doesn’t give you an answer get back to me because I have a few ideas in that regard.

Bespoke
Nov 28, 2023 8:59 PM
Who are you to dictate to others what is a dignified death?

What happens when the state starts encouraging it like Canada?

If they are encouraging euthanasia that’s almost as bad as those opposed to euthanasia. I don’t know what is happening Canada so I’m not interested in what anyone has to say about the situation in Canada.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 9:22 pm

Crossie – I like Shakespeare and Chaucer and thought Lord of the Flies was fascinating, although I didn’t understand it. I do now…it’s like the whole world is turning into that story.

Stuff chimes. One brief episode in English we looked at SF. I was already a SF junkie, so when our Year 10 English teacher tasked us to do a short story I aced it. I got 40/40. Still have it somewhere, handwritten. But Dickens leaves me dead.

rosie
rosie
November 28, 2023 9:23 pm

You want to pick and choose what is good, then you are no different to those you claim to oppose.
I do remember my older brother having to write an essay on euthanasia at his Catholic boy’s school, pretty sure it would have been covered in RE, mid 1970s.

an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.

MatrixTransform
November 28, 2023 9:26 pm

Death sucks, whichever way you want to curve-ball

I disagree

it’s a release and triumph

doesn’t mater if life was long or short

the same stuff stars are made of

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 9:27 pm

I don’t know what is happening Canada so I’m not interested in what anyone has to say about the situation in Canada.

Ha?

rosie
rosie
November 28, 2023 9:32 pm

10 hostages due to be released tonight.
There are nine children as well as several badly injured (if they are alive) still being held in appalling conditions.
Despite the show put on by hamas, hold our hands, smile and wave for the camera, the truth is they were beaten with sticks on arrival, none got a shower or a change of clothes for the entire time, in the dark the entire time, sleeping on plastic chairs the entire time, very little food the entire time, the only nurse is one of the hostages.
Not as if hamas hadn’t planned to take hostages, they could have looked after them a little better.
Apparently Sinwar himself popped in for a chat with a few on day one.
How nice for them.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 9:40 pm

All this reminds me of my Year 10 history teacher. Fairly young guy, but from the very start of the year he made it known we would have a major project to do. Built up the expectation over the year. So mid year, after this raising of these expectations he puts out a list of topics for us to choose from.

One of which was, of course WW2. And as luck had it I got that topic.

My mum had given me Liddell Hart’s History of WW2 some time before…

Much effort later a fifty page essay typed on my dad’s old typewriter, with lots of hand drawn oops copied diagrams. I got A+++ for it.

Most of the class also got A+++ or thereabouts because our History teacher had inspired all of us to rather ridiculous heights of achievement. One of the nicest examples ever of what a teacher can do for his class. I can’t remember his name but I will always remember his dedication to us. And now I have the time to read history and enjoy it, thanks firstly I think to him.

Cassie of Sydney
November 28, 2023 9:42 pm

I don’t know what is happening Canada so I’m not interested in what anyone has to say about the situation in Canada

Canada is very relevant to any discussion on euthanasia.

Also, only last month a politician in the ACT Greens/Labor government, who also happens to be the ACT ‘health minister’ no less, announced that she would like to give adolescents as young as 14 access to euthanasia.

Lee
Lee
November 28, 2023 9:43 pm

On Sunday we successfully prevented a hostile LGBT mob incited by a Greens political candidate from forming at the front of a large Catholic family’s home.

That Green looks as butch and butt-ugly a lesbian as they come

JohnJJJ
JohnJJJ
November 28, 2023 9:52 pm

So they stand against Islamophobia. What a list of jelly spines in the Oz today.
What is it about Islamophobia?
Where is the Buddistophobia, Hinduophobia, Jewophobia, Sikhophobia, Atheistophobia… I wonder what is so special about Islam?

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 28, 2023 9:54 pm

Bear at 8:24.
Thankfully it got somewhat better, and perhaps there was always a hope that it would.
A degenerative disease like MND offers no such hope of rehabilitation, just an inexorable slide of diminishing capability.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 10:01 pm

And now I have the time to read history and enjoy it, thanks firstly I think to him.

My High School history teacher had served in the United States Marine Corps, in the South Pacific, in World War Two. You did not EVER muck around in History, but the love of history he instilled in at least one of his students has lasted the intervening fifty years.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 28, 2023 10:03 pm

Bespoke

Nov 28, 2023 9:20 PM

I could totally understand someone wanting to pull the pin in that circumstance.

So do I if no outside pressure is given, Sancho.

Quite so.
The “V” in “VAD” needs to be rigourously enforced.
Except for my Aunty Joan who lives in the big house in Camberwell all alone with her share certificates and with me her only heir.
Is slight osteoporosis and cataracts sufficient grounds?

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 10:04 pm
Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 28, 2023 10:09 pm

I don’t know what is happening Canada so I’m not interested in what anyone has to say about the situation in Canada.

If you inform yourself you might see the dangers of mission creep that even supporters of unencumbered individual choice are afraid of.
That is, state sponsored nudging of the vulnerable or “undesirable”.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 28, 2023 10:11 pm

MatrixTransform

Nov 28, 2023 9:26 PM

Death sucks, whichever way you want to curve-ball

I disagree

it’s a release and triumph

doesn’t mater if life was long or short

Call JC’s hotline.
Call him now.
He’s waiting to talk.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 28, 2023 10:12 pm

One of the nicest examples ever of what a teacher can do for his class.

Since Nietzsche has been getting some airplay…

Whoever is through and through a teacher takes all things seriously only in relation to his students —including even himself.

– Summer’s Sloppy Passion (Mills and Boone 1905 edition)

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 10:21 pm

Said High school history teacher was challenged as to the relevance of the curriculum. “Why are we learning all about the French Revolution, German unification, the Russian Revolution and the history of China? My brother is serving in Vietnam at the moment – when do we learn about that?”

We got an impromptu lesson on French colonization, the First Indo-China War, the Geneva conference and the separate States of North and South Vietnam…

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 10:22 pm

If you inform yourself you might see the dangers of mission creep that even supporters of unencumbered individual choice are afraid of.
That is, state sponsored nudging of the vulnerable or “undesirable”.

This and the likes of BG trying to emotionally gilt trip calli into pulling the plug on her dad.

Diogenes
Diogenes
November 28, 2023 10:23 pm

it’s a release and triumph

The father in law will think so

Mrs D just got a phone call from her sister. Their father is not expected to make it through the night. He has been wanting to die, and indeed has tried to kill himself a few times since he lost Mrs D’s stepmom.

Parkinson’s and dementia are not a good combination.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 10:28 pm

Brittany Higgins ‘five times over’ limit night of alleged rape

From the Oz. I believe the legal definition is “As piZZed as?”

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 28, 2023 10:30 pm

Lawyers circle prey – the taxpayer

Class actions to allege modern repeat of Stolen Generation

Hundreds of Indigenous families are joining planned class actions across Australia, alleging racial discrimination by state authorities that took their children into care over the past two decades in a repeat of the Stolen Generations.

A pathfinding class action has already been filed in the Federal Court in Queensland, with similar lawsuits being planned in Victoria, NSW, Western Australia and South Australia.

The cases will resurrect some of the history of the Stolen Generations and the findings of the 1997 Bringing Them Home report into the systematic removal of Indigenous children from their families and communities, stretching from colonisation to the 1970s.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are disproportionately represented in state care, with figures earlier this year showing a national average of 58 out of 1000 Indigenous children in the system.

This is compared to a rate of 4.7 per 1000 of non-Indigenous children in state care.

Inquiries in NSW, Queensland, Victoria and South Australia over the past decade have criticised child safety departments over their heavy-handed dealings with Indigenous families and their failure to place the children with extended family or within the Indigenous community.

The class actions are being ­handled by Cairns-based Bottoms English Lawyers and ASX-listed Shine Lawyers and involve Indigenous barrister Joshua Creamer.

In Queensland, the class action was filed in the Federal Court this month after complaints by two ­Indigenous people, who were removed from their families soon after birth, could not be resolved by the Australian Human Rights Commission.

The class action will focus on what happens after children enter the system, with the central allegation that authorities systematically deprived them of their connection to family, culture and community.

It also alleges a widespread failure by Queensland child safety officers to attempt to later reunite children with their parents, often after they have fulfilled requirements set out by the department.

More than 100 Indigenous people have signed up to the Queensland class action, headed by the two representative claimants, including one man who has also had his three children removed from his care – with thousands more possibly joining the lawsuit.

In documents filed in the Federal Court, the action alleges breaches of the Racial Discrimination Act in relation to children removed from their families and parents who had their children ­removed.

It also alleges a systematic breach of the Queensland Department of Child Safety’s own legislation and its child “placement principle” which requires officers to exhaust all attempts to place children with other family members or within the Indigenous community before they are handed over to non-Indigenous carers.

Jerry Tucker, special counsel to Bottoms English lawyers, told The Australian there were prospectively thousands of people joining the class action, which will focus on the actions of the child safety authorities once a child is removed.

“We allege that systemic failure to adhere to the principles breaches internationally recognised human rights and has resulted in fractured family units as well as severing connections to culture and community,’’ she said.

“We expect that the evidence will also demonstrate a deeply concerning culture of failing or refusing to reunite or restore ­family relationships between removed children and their parents, even after the parents have wholly or substantially complied with the department’s stipulated conditions.

“The impact on families is ­devastating and wide-reaching. It retraumatises First Nations families, many of whom see the department’s conduct as a modern day repeat of the Stolen Generations, or as akin to the so-called Protection Era.”

One of the claimants, Brett Gunning, now 49, was taken into the “custody” of child services a month after his birth in 1974 and placed with a non-Indigenous family who adopted him as a baby. He was separated from his siblings and knew nothing about his Aboriginal family until he was between eight and 10 years of age.

The class action alleges his removal was unlawful and that he was “denied the right to know who his biological family was or what his traditional language, country and culture were”

“The respondent’s actions had the effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise of the applicant’s right to enjoy his own culture and to use his own language, contrary to Art 27 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR),” it states.

Mr Gunning’s three children were also removed from his care.

The Federal Court action claims he later met all the demands of child safety authorities, including completing parenting courses and engaging in counselling, but did not have his children returned.

“Despite the compliance … the respondent did not permit, facilitate, or adequately facilitate family healing between the applicant and his children,” the claim states.

As of June this year there were 5859 Indigenous children in state care out of total of 12,496 children in Queensland. Of those about 2600 were placed with extended family or Indigenous carers.

The Queensland class action seeks compensation, a formal apology, an order for better Indigenous training of child safety workers, and a well-resourced process to help restore families.

A spokesman for the Queensland Department of Child Safety said it was aware of the legal action but that it was inappropriate to comment on it while it was ­before the courts.

Shine Lawyers special counsel Caitlin Wilson said the firm was planning similar class actions in NSW, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia.

Among the individual cases proposed for the class actions is the removal of a child after her mother asked for financial help to buy formula and was deemed “unable to provide necessities of life”. Another case involves a child who was removed when she had a fall and was taken to hospital by her mother, who had no criminal record or previous contact with child safety workers.

Ms Wilson said the firm would seek compensation for families and that the class actions would help “shine a light” on past practices and drive legislative change.

“The proposed claims relate to the over-representation of Indigenous children in the child protection system, particularly with respect to children placed in out-of-home care, and the various departments’ conduct, which we allege amounts to discrimination and/or negligence,’’ she said.

“When Shine Lawyers began investigating the potential claims, it was evident that the government and those within the child protection system knew about the significant over-representation of Indigenous children in the child protection system given the number of reports and inquiries that have been undertaken over the last 25 years.”

Oz

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 10:32 pm

Class actions to allege modern repeat of Stolen Generation

EXCLUSIVE
By michael mckenna
Queensland Editor
@McKennaattheOz
10:03PM November 28, 2023
3 Comments

Hundreds of Indigenous families are joining planned class actions across Australia, alleging racial discrimination by state authorities that took their children into care over the past two decades in a repeat of the Stolen Generations.

A pathfinding class action has already been filed in the Federal Court in Queensland, with similar lawsuits being planned in Victoria, NSW, Western Australia and South Australia.

The cases will resurrect some of the history of the Stolen Generations and the findings of the 1997 Bringing Them Home report into the systematic removal of Indigenous children from their families and communities, stretching from colonisation to the 1970s.
Read Next

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are disproportionately represented in state care, with figures earlier this year showing a national average of 58 out of 1000 Indigenous children in the system.

This is compared to a rate of 4.7 per 1000 of non-Indigenous children in state care.

Inquiries in NSW, Queensland, Victoria and South Australia over the past decade have criticised child safety departments over their heavy-handed dealings with Indigenous families and their failure to place the children with extended family or within the Indigenous community.|

The class actions are being ­handled by Cairns-based Bottoms English Lawyers and ASX-listed Shine Lawyers and involve Indigenous barrister Joshua Creamer.

In Queensland, the class action was filed in the Federal Court this month after complaints by two ­Indigenous people, who were removed from their families soon after birth, could not be resolved by the Australian Human Rights Commission.

The class action will focus on what happens after children enter the system, with the central allegation that authorities systematically deprived them of their connection to family, culture and community.

It also alleges a widespread failure by Queensland child safety officers to attempt to later reunite children with their parents, often after they have fulfilled requirements set out by the department.

More than 100 Indigenous people have signed up to the Queensland class action, headed by the two representative claimants, including one man who has also had his three children removed from his care – with thousands more possibly joining the lawsuit.

In documents filed in the Federal Court, the action alleges breaches of the Racial Discrimination Act in relation to children removed from their families and parents who had their children ­removed.

It also alleges a systematic breach of the Queensland Department of Child Safety’s own legislation and its child “placement principle” which requires officers to exhaust all attempts to place children with other family members or within the Indigenous community before they are handed over to non-Indigenous carers.

Jerry Tucker, special counsel to Bottoms English lawyers, told The Australian there were prospectively thousands of people joining the class action, which will focus on the actions of the child safety authorities once a child is removed.

cohenite
November 28, 2023 10:39 pm

There’s one that’s similar to Huntington’s disease but only hits the kids. I forget the name, but I’m sure John H or Gilas would know. There’s no cure. If parents choose to terminate at that very final stage, I can’t be cross with them.

Sure. Terrible. But then you have this. Critically Ill UK Baby Dies After Parents Lose Court Battle To Take Her To Italy

Dot
Dot
November 28, 2023 10:41 pm

I truly despise what the West has become.

https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/licences-and-permits/wildlife-permits/permit-types/hunting/bow-hunting

The Government of South Australia is moving to ban the use of bows and crossbows to hunt animals.

Bespoke
Bespoke
November 28, 2023 10:44 pm

It also alleges a widespread failure by Queensland child safety officers to attempt to later reunite children with their parents, often after they have fulfilled requirements set out by the department.

This not uncommon evan for none Aboriginal families.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 28, 2023 10:47 pm

The Government of South Australia is moving to ban the use of bows and crossbows to hunt animals.

There’re critters worse than animals. If they’d propose that bows and crossbows might be allowed for hunting politicians I think it would be very popular. A referendum would be most entertaining.

Dot
Dot
November 28, 2023 10:52 pm

“No 1A without the 2A”, as some Yanks would say.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 10:54 pm

If they’d propose that bows and crossbows might be allowed for hunting politicians I think it would be very popular.

Pay a bounty on the scalp, the same as they used to, for other vermin…

Gabor
Gabor
November 28, 2023 11:04 pm

I wonder what is so special about Islam?

They hit back and hit hard, regardless of the consequences.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 28, 2023 11:33 pm

Ms Higgins was in the witness box for the first time on Tuesday during the defamation trial after Mr Lehrmann concluded his evidence.

Dr Collins commenced by asking her a “strange question” which was how much she weighed at the time of the alleged rape.

“I was much thinner at the time. Early 60 kilos,’’ she said. Ms Higgins said she was around 5 foot 7 tall.

Justice Michael Lee, who is presiding over the case, has already heard evidence that Ms Higgins drank 12 vodkas and no non-alcoholic drinks.

As pizzed as…

MatrixTransform
November 28, 2023 11:38 pm

if somebody wants to go all Dylan Thomas and rage and not go gentle

then fine by me

… like you have a choice anyway

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 28, 2023 11:48 pm

Hard to see where Ch 10 is going with Brittany’s intoxication – consent? It certainly raises a question mark over anything else she might say about events. Back to the security tapes w Groogs. All will be revealed tomorrow I guess.

John H.
John H.
November 28, 2023 11:53 pm

Sancho Panzer
Nov 28, 2023 10:09 PM
I don’t know what is happening Canada so I’m not interested in what anyone has to say about the situation in Canada.

If you inform yourself you might see the dangers of mission creep that even supporters of unencumbered individual choice are afraid of.
That is, state sponsored nudging of the vulnerable or “undesirable”.

You might do well to inform yourself that mission creep and slippery slope are general problems that we are continually facing. Absolutists need to recognize that reality doesn’t accord with our wishes of how life should be. We are always going to be dealing with questions of how far do we exercise our beliefs in the world. If you want to take the easy way out by banning euthanasia outright then you are being an authoritarian. None of this is easy, none of this is pleasing, and resorting to mission creep\slippery slopes arguments is pointless.

MatrixTransform
November 28, 2023 11:59 pm

God of grace and mercy, forbid me one last duty and allow me my own choosing

spare those that dwell in other times and places the trouble of arguing over my my body, my bones, or my legacy

let me rest

JC
JC
November 29, 2023 12:22 am

Sure. Terrible. But then you have this. Critically Ill UK Baby Dies After Parents Lose Court Battle To Take Her To Italy

That story reminds me.

Our girl spent most of her teen years in the children’s hospital with a blood disorder. We thought she wouldn’t make it at times but she did and made a great recovery. She’s self taught in the sense that her school years were spent mostly in hospital. Incredibly, she sailed through VCE.

For a time, in a room next to her, there was the cutest little boy dying of a degenerative illness and there was nothing the docs could do. We became friends with the parents after that. The mum would refer to him as her little angel and still does. The ward was inconsolable when he passed away.

rosie
rosie
November 29, 2023 5:48 am

Two foreign nationals also released

Tintarella di Luna
Tintarella di Luna
November 29, 2023 6:25 am

Life is a gift from God, should we extinguish it?

Indeed Bruce of NewCastle Victor Hugo’s bishop Myriel in Les Miserables would sadly agree.Death belongs to God alone. By what right do men touch that unknown thing?

JohnJJJ
JohnJJJ
November 29, 2023 7:38 am

The Government of South Australia is moving to ban the use of bows and crossbows to hunt animals.
Of course there are exceptions:

“Who is not impacted?
This ban is not intended to impact on hunting animals where a Basic Hunting Permit is not required, such as when:
An Aboriginal person is hunting for food for themselves or their family, or for cultural purposes and non-commercially.”

How bizarre. Just tick the box.

Boambee John
Boambee John
November 29, 2023 8:13 am

JohnJJJ
Nov 28, 2023 9:52 PM
So they stand against Islamophobia. What a list of jelly spines in the Oz today.
What is it about Islamophobia?
Where is the Buddistophobia, Hinduophobia, Jewophobia, Sikhophobia, Atheistophobia… I wonder what is so special about Islam?

The open threat of extreme violence.

Boambee John
Boambee John
November 29, 2023 8:17 am

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Nov 28, 2023 10:28 PM
Brittany Higgins ‘five times over’ limit night of alleged rape

That should have put her in hospital with alcohol poisoning.

A woman of many talents, including immunity to alcohol and the ability to walk a straight line whilst paralytic.

Boambee John
Boambee John
November 29, 2023 8:21 am

Gabor at 23204

Belated Snap.

Robert Sewell
November 29, 2023 8:50 am

Bruce O’Nuke:
Your comment about SF – I cut my teeth on SF and the person who said anyone who tries to predict the future will find it already discussed in an SF novel somewhere, certainly got it right.
I had the misfortune to read a couple of novels recently that were written by someone who was an ardent believer in Woke and multiculturalism and peaceful outcomes for everyone if only they had listened to each other. I read it all, waiting for the moment everyone woke up to reality and realised they had to fight the alien invaders – but it never happened and instead the protagonist managed to do a treaty that was entirely in favour of the aliens but brought about peace anyway.
What drivel.
So, Woke propaganda is entering the SF realm?

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 29, 2023 9:31 am

Here’s an extract from Hanania’s article linked by Rosie yesterday, that Roger said he would read later. I’ve just read it and drawing on other realpolitik in recent times, (let alone in the wars and massacres of Napoleonic times as Europe reconfigured, for which see ‘Europe Since Napoleon’ by David Thomson) he asks if the Two-State Solution should be made dead in the water? Should Israel get tougher and make it clear that Palestine has no future in Gaza? Is it true that nothing much will change unless the Pallies lose hope for their hatreds and does that automatically mean that Israel crushes them, in mind and spirit under Israeli rule, or wholly, by ousting them? I am conflicted here, what about other Cats? Do fading twentieth century (eg Japan) and early millennial analogies and calculations (eg Syria, Uyghurs in China) still apply? Or has the internet changed public access to perceptions too much for that?

Right now, it’s hard to imagine Palestinians giving up their political dreams. But the idea that Japan would become a pacifist society content to manufacture electronics and watch anime while renouncing all geopolitical ambitions must have seemed just as improbable in early 1945. What ended World War II wasn’t the two atomic bombs that the US dropped, as Japan still had the capability to go on fighting. It was knowledge that there would be a third, a fourth, and a fifth if it didn’t surrender. If there was a way Israel could guarantee with 100% certainty that it wouldn’t stop until Hamas was destroyed, I think Palestinian resistance would decline. As things stand, there’s still a good deal of hope out there that Western pressure will eventually force Israel to stop short of regime change in Gaza. In which case, we would simply find ourselves in the same situation as before October 7.

Unlike the Palestinians, Japan already had a state, so in this case moving on means trying to make Gazans into refugees, in many cases not for the first time of course. This will be tough for one or two generations, but eventually lead to a more humane outcome for all involved. Right now, even Westerners seem outraged by the idea of population transfer. One might ask why in every other conflict in the world, we consider it a self-evidently good thing to get civilians out of war zones. What’s special about this particular conflict is the attachment that Arabs and Westerners feel to the cause of Palestine. But it’s an evil cause, which clearly emphasizes hating Jews more than making its own people better off.

He’s already envisaged that a Hamas revival would mean the slow death of Israel as a power, as economic decline and Jewish population drift out would occur. So time to be a Hawk, or not? I incline to the destruction of Hamas with pacification of the Gaza population with the help of Abraham Accord Islamics, which Hanania would regard as too weak.

Bruce
Bruce
November 29, 2023 9:34 am

Kanaduh is toast.

Chinese toast.

Vast swathes of their primary production, from paddock to plate is Chinese owned, This started with teh pork industry, after the domestic XChnese herd was utterly destroyed by Swine Fever.

A srious proportion of their polli-muppets and pubic serpents have taken the Emperors Yauan.

Australis is on the same path, and probably at higher speed, especially when it comes to primary production and “human resources”. And don’t forget how much of Oz poet facilities are now “foreign owned”.

Australian churnalists? Yeah! Right!!

Enjoy it while you can.

Bruce
Bruce
November 29, 2023 9:36 am

@ Robert Sewell:

“So, Woke propaganda is entering the SF realm?”

“To serve Man”.

It’s a COOKBOOK!

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 29, 2023 9:42 am

Eight children still in captivity.

These brutal beasts intend to extract the highest price for little children.

Maybe Israel should get tough and threaten to bomb Gaza to glass if all Israeli children are not returned within 24 hours. Or maybe execute ten of the worst of the Pallie prisoners (just deserts) for every child held for more than ten hours.

One gets the feeling that Hamas wouldn’t care, for human life means nothing to them. Except when that life is theirs. A bomb on a Qatar house of pleasure where Hamas leaders enjoy Western aid money might be a better threat.

Turnip
Turnip
November 29, 2023 9:48 am

Going from my one and only DUI at .175 I was too pissed to know I was too pissed to drive.
Add a few more points (and pints) to get to .25 ish and I certainly would not have been smiling and galloping down a hallway.

Big_Nambas
Big_Nambas
November 29, 2023 1:39 pm

Oh and by the way, the BOM said drought this summer, Australia wide.
Must be my imagination but looks like floods all over the eastern states and more rain to come.
If these pricks can’t forecast this years weather how can they forecast it for the next century???????>?

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