Open Thread – Thurs 26 Sept 2024


Sunlight on Brownstones, Edward Hopper, 1956

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

407 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Indolent
Indolent
September 27, 2024 8:00 am
Roger
Roger
September 27, 2024 8:03 am

Deeming tape exposes the Liberal divide, Pesutto should go west

Kevin Andrews, The Spectator (Oz ed), 28 September 2024

It is rare that ordinary Australians gain an insight into the inner workings of political parties. There is good reason for this: parties require a degree of confidentiality to have frank internal discussions free from media intrusion that would hinder rather than assist the resolution of many issues. Although there are leaks from party and caucus meetings, much of the discussion still remains confidential. Cabinet and shadow cabinet meetings and those of leadership groups generally remain confidential.

This past week, Australians have had a rare glimpse of an internal meeting between the leadership group of the Victorian parliamentary Liberal party and the novice MP, Moira Deeming. Ms Deeming had been summoned to meet opposition leader John Pesutto, deputy leader David Southwick and Upper House leaders Georgie Crozier and Matt Bach to discuss her participation in a pro-woman rally. Unknown – apparently to everyone else present – Mr Southwick surreptitiously recorded the conversation. Why he did this is not clear. It may become so when he is cross-examined by the formidable Sue Chrysanthou KC during the defamation proceedings Deeming has brought against Pesutto. The existence of the recording only became public in recent weeks, not having been disclosed earlier in the discovery process in the action. It is now available to all, having been released for publication by the court. Throughout, Mr Southwick sounds like the chief prosecutor.

Whatever his motives, Mr Southwick’s recording is an insight into how the current leadership of the Victorian parliamentary party operates. It is not pretty. My comments are not about the issues that the judge will determine in the defamation trial. Having studied defamation law and given advice about the subject when at the Bar, I am well aware of the intricacies of the subject, and the many twists and turns that are likely to come as various witnesses are cross-examined. Rather, it is the insights into the state of the party that are my focus.

Mr Pesutto’s opening comments are telling: ‘I’ve very much – and you would have heard this over interviews over recent weeks and the last few months – is to try to position the party so that whoever you are, whether you’re hetero, whether you’re same-sex attracted, whether you are trans, whoever you are the Liberal party can be a voice for you because the values of the party apply to anybody, no matter who you are because it’s about enterprise, it’s about the rule of law, strength of communities, personal effort, those sorts of things’.

Mr Pesutto is selective in his recitation of the values of the party. Compare his list with the values that are outlined in the model constitution recently released by the party. The first of these values is, ‘Freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of expression and freedom of association as the building blocks of a robust and fair society.’ These values are repeated in the objectives in the model constitution. The tenor of the 70-minute discussion is that Ms Deeming can hold her views about safe spaces for women, female-only facilities and female-only sporting competitions, but there is no place for her in the parliamentary Liberal party. It is suggested to her that she would be better being an independent. When she failed to embrace this proposal, she was informed that a motion to expel her will be moved unless she resigned in the meantime. The premise of the charge against her was that she associated with Nazis, despite her assertions that she did not know that a neo-Nazi group was planning to disrupt a rally supporting women, at which she spoke. It is understandable that Mr Southwick, who represents an electorate with a large Jewish population, is sensitive to any perceived or alleged connections to Nazism. But he seemed to entirely disregard the fact that the women’s rally itself was organised by, as it happens, a Jewish woman.

Towards the end of the discussion, one of the leadership group referred to the rally organisers as ‘your people’ implying that any association other speakers at the rally had with Nazis represented Deeming’s own position, despite her denials. It was unedifying.

My observation of Liberal party members is that their views about women’s issues are generally aligned to those of Ms Deeming. Indeed, they are the views of the majority of Australians.

If Mr Pesutto’s premise is accepted, the logical consequence is that Liberal MPs will not be able to speak about matters seen as unimportant or unacceptable to the leadership. That has never been the Liberal way.

The recording discloses a number of other worrying matters. The impression I gained was that the leading Liberals were totally cowered by then premier, Dan Andrews. The members of the leadership group repeatedly claimed that the premier would assert the Liberals were pro-Nazi. Instead of calling this the nonsense that it is, they were dancing to Mr Andrews’ claims. There was also undue deference to the left-wing Melbourne Age and to social media. Equally, there seemed to be a fear of the LGBTQIA+ community. While that community is entitled to put its views, it should not be dictating Liberal policy.

The claim that the opposition had the Labor government on the ropes at the time and that Ms Deeming’s participation in the rally was derailing their efforts, frankly seem delusional. There is an ongoing risk to members of parliament of becoming consumed by the media bubble in which they work. I recall phoning my wife from Canberra one afternoon, describing the great question time we (the opposition) had that day. ‘It must have been a different question time to what I was watching on TV,’ was her curt response!

The recording – and the case – reveal a clear division in priorities between the inner-suburban Liberals and the rest of the state. The leadership team represented inner and middle-suburban electorates.

Mr Pesutto is the member for the wealthy, leafy suburbs around Hawthorn. Mr Southwick holds the nearby electorate of Caulfield. Despite growing up at Traralgon in the Latrobe Valley – the son of hard-working Italian migrants – Mr Pesutto often appears to favour the Labor-lite concerns of the city elites.

In contrast, Ms Deeming is one of only two Liberal MPs from the western suburbs. The transport corridor stretching north of the Melbourne CBD along Royal Parade, Sydney Road and the Hume Highway is the dividing line between the east and west of the city.

The Liberal party holds none of the eleven suburban lower-house seats west of that line. For more than half a million electors, the Liberals have just two upper-house members. Despite being successful in a sea of red seats, it seems that it was anathema to the leadership group for Ms Deeming to present the views with which most Victorians associate.

With more members of the parliamentary Liberal party due to give evidence, these divisions are likely to be further exposed.

Wally Dalí
Wally Dalí
September 27, 2024 8:09 am

How to get cover for some instant arbritary action against your enemies?
..get Their ABC to explode an explosive exposay.
New South Wales Premier Chris Minns has promised to “weed out” the “horrific behaviour” in the state’s police force following “harrowing” revelations from an ABC News investigation.
Note, they’re only “relevations”, not yet evidence or even testimony.
ABC News has spoken to more than a dozen current and former officers who have made allegations of bullying, nepotism, sexism and a dangerous lack of support for officers suffering from PTSD.
Nothing to do with three years of N*zi Camp Giard activities under the aegis of the planned pandemic?
They claim the toxic culture has led to a mass exodus from the police force, contributing to an almost 20 per cent shortfall in officers across the state.
Aha, a claim! Razors out, Minns, go git ’em!

Rosie
Rosie
September 27, 2024 8:12 am

1400 years since mo slaughtered the Jews at Medina and the muslims started their attempts at world conquest (estimated that over a billion people have been murdered in their endless wars for el sham) but it’s still, somehow, the fault of Jews when muslims try to slaughter them.
You have Shiite imans in Lebanon putting fatwas on Hezbollah for the deaths of civilians they put in harm’s way but the armchair experts somewhere else know more about what’s happening.
Of course.

Indolent
Indolent
September 27, 2024 8:27 am

I was listening to the Bret Weinstein chat when I posted it. His ability to explain complex things, which have a direct bearing on our lives, simply is quite extraordinary.

Last edited 1 hour ago by Indolent
will
will
September 27, 2024 8:28 am

Still snivelling, after all these years.

Quite amazing that a bitter and twisted old socialist, who wants more government, gets more government in the form of conscription, doesn’t like it at all.

Noted that conscription is a form of slavery, and if you want an army you need to pay a market rate for people willing to risk their life.

Makka
Makka
September 27, 2024 8:30 am

You have Shiite imans in Lebanon putting fatwas on Hezbollah for the deaths of civilians they put in harm’s way

IMO it’s come to this. I don’t care how many Mohammedans Israel kills. The less there are, the better we are off. The time for sensitivity is passed, we in the west have to accept that moslems intend to put the west under their sword. Fk em, fk em all.

Pogria
Pogria
September 27, 2024 8:31 am

Harking back to a post I made on the previous page, China is so great at building and engineering, it is a total surprise that the Sub sank. Lol!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13895821/poo-cano-erupts-shooting-human-excrement-33ft-air-cars.html

Beertruk
September 27, 2024 8:31 am

This link was sent to me by a mate who works at the War Memorial.

TheirTealsGreensALPBC linky:

Man arrested for allegedly spray-painting pro-Palestinian slogans on War Memorial and ABC buildings in Canberra
Magistrate Alexandra Burt warned Evans “If you wish to part take in civil conversation you should do that in a lawful manner”.

But she granted him bail saying she didn’t think he needed close supervision given he “seems motivated by a political conscience”.

Mr Evans will have to obey conditions to stay away from the War Memorial, the ABC and other landmarks, unless he is in transit.

Of course he got bail.
Retarded.

Zippster
Zippster
September 27, 2024 8:44 am
Wally Dalí
Wally Dalí
September 27, 2024 8:50 am

Makka, you’ve lowered yourself to the enemy’s level. Of Hell.
Get a grip.

Indolent
Indolent
September 27, 2024 8:50 am

Patrick Byrne of the FBI.

@SpartaJustice

EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION: Evidence of Obama, CIA Brennan, FBI Comey blackmailing Hillary Clinton with a bribe of $18 million dollars which she accepted. Garland and FBI Wray destroyed child porn evidence from Ukraine that was to be planted on Trump. Evidence Epstein was murdered.

alwaysright
alwaysright
September 27, 2024 8:50 am

Testing …

Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam Vietnam

End test

Crossie
Crossie
September 27, 2024 8:51 am

WONG SIGNS US UP TO CEASEFIRE PLEA 

CLARE ARMSTRONG – NATIONAL POLITICAL EDITOR 

Australia has land and air defence personnel ready to help evacuate its citizens from Lebanon if an operation is ordered, 

It would have been nice to have had this sort of dedication to bringing Australians home from overseas before the COVID lockdowns in 2020.

Eyrie
Eyrie
September 27, 2024 8:53 am

Noted that conscription is a form of slavery, and if you want an army you need to pay a market rate for people willing to risk their life.

Correct. Or at least have a cause/plan that convinces people to join. Those of us with more than half a brain figured out in 1964 that there wasn’t one as far as Vietnam was concerned and wanted no part of idiot plans to send Australian troops there. We were right.
Not also that 20 year olds were legally not adults at the time. Conscripting children. Charming.
Only one of my friends from school/university got conscripted and none joined the CMF or the military voluntarily. They either weren’t called up or got out on conscientious objection grounds. There was lawyer in Freo who specialised in this. Good for them.
The guy who did get conscripted failed several goes at electrical engineering (hint – don’t make your kid do something he doesn’t want to do. The guy was a keen chemist). He found computers and in some kind of military miracle the Army actually gave him computers to run.

Makka
Makka
September 27, 2024 8:56 am

Makka, you’ve lowered yourself to the enemy’s level. Of Hell.

Get a grip.

I’ve lived over a decade in Islamic countries. STFU until you understand what you are talking about.

Roger
Roger
September 27, 2024 8:57 am

Australia has land and air defence personnel ready to help evacuate its citizens from Lebanon if an operation is ordered…

They were advised to leave in July.

Commercial flights were still operating this week.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 27, 2024 8:57 am

I wonder how long it will last before someone pulls it down, chops it up and sells it to a scrap merchant?

Dan statue confirmed: Ex-premier to be immortalised in bronze (Tele, paywalled)

A new statue is in the works to honour former premier Daniel Andrews but the Allan government won’t say where it will be placed or how much it will cost taxpayers.

After all, those statues of Lenin all over eastern Europe went the same way.

johanna
johanna
September 27, 2024 9:06 am

But she granted him bail saying she didn’t think he needed close supervision given he “seems motivated by a political conscience”.
———————————————————-
This is regarding the guy who vandalised the War Memorial with pro Palestinian slogans.

WTF? Does this idiot magistrate understand anything at all about politics and history?

Her revered ‘political conscience’ has been the motivation for many of the worst atrocities in history.

What a dope.

Roger
Roger
September 27, 2024 9:09 am

A new statue is in the works to honour former premier Daniel Andrews…

Pigeons of Melbourne, you know what to do.

1735099
1735099
September 27, 2024 9:18 am

Lizzie (Elizabeth) Beare @ 7:07pm

Why does he feel the need to come here?
Why not look for some of his old mates and help out any who are in trouble? A good listening ear might be welcome there, if he could learn to do that.

Two reasons – learning and teaching.

If you read every post on this site, you’ll (very occasionally) find something that is closer to analysis than opinion.

It is always possible to learn something from those rare gems.

And I’m a teacher; have been since 1968. There are teaching moments, even here. I don’t waste them.

As for Why not look for some of his old mates and help out any who are in trouble?

Been doing that for fifty-four years. Of ten in my rifle section, five are now beyond help – Multiple myeloma; two suicides; pancreatic cancer; and one shot by police.

johanna
johanna
September 27, 2024 9:23 am

I can’t play the latest Pauline Hanson video.

It comes up ‘This video is unavailable.’

Censored by Youtube?

Roger
Roger
September 27, 2024 9:24 am

The Misinformation Bill’s Sly Tyranny

Ruben Kirkham, Quadrant Online, 27 September, 2024

The Misinformation Bill is upon us. This is about making the powerful the arbiter of truth: after all, misinformation is largely in the eye of the beholder. The Labor Government knows its bad. That’s why they are trying to sneak it through parliament at the last minute without anyone noticing — an effort which is so far failing. They hope no-one will understand its contents, or even how it works. They are attempting to deflect criticism by providing Potemkin safeguards, such as generalised references to freedom of speech.

The Bill creates a range of powers that are gifted to the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). The first is to make ‘codes’ that regulate a range of online platforms, including social media platforms. At the same time, ACMA will also gain a suite of powers to obtain information from tech companies, as and when they see fit.

If online platforms don’t comply with ACMA’s diktats met, it has the power to issue enormous fines to the tech companies. Worse still, there is a power to fine individuals who advise others how to get around the codes. For example, if this bill passes, then individuals could be fined simply for suggesting the use of a Virtual Private Network (VPN) that makes the user appear to be accessing the internet from outside of Australia.

This Orwellian attack on companies and individuals come straight from the playbook of the Brazilian ‘jurist’ Alexandre de Moraes, who recently imposed fines on Elon Musk’s X Corp (aka Twitter). In response, Musk dubbed de Moraes the “the Darth Vader of Brazil”.

Much of the criticism of the legislation has focussed on its definition of misinformation but that’s a sideshow. The real threat comes because ACMA’s new powers work coercively, rather than directly. ACMA can design codes to favour providers that do its bidding. They can also selectively prosecute breaches of their codes, wherein their true power lies. For example, they can reward social media companies who censor more than is required in line with the dominant ideological emphasis, an issue that has already arisen with respect to the European Union. They can do what the eSafety Commissioner has already done and issue abusive requests for information, followed up with fines when the requests are rejected. The true model is one of collateral censorship, via a quid pro quo model, since any attempt to regulate ‘misinformation’, no matter how narrowly defined, will result in a wide form of censorship.

If you don’t believe this, look at how the eSafety Commissioner — Julie Inman Grant — already operates. Under Statute, the eSafety Commissioner actually has very limited formal powers to take down content. She is required to comply with the ‘implied freedom of political community’. Her powers are officially used rarely, maybe a few dozen each year, according to her own annual reports. Most of the time she instead issues ‘informal notices’ which, according to her, cannot be appealed, even if one is fortunate to find out about them. This approach subverts the rule of law, but also illustrates the risk of creating any body on this topic.

After all, why wouldn’t ACMA do what Ms Inman Grant already does.

As it happens, we have a test case about this in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, namely that of Baumgarten v eSafety Commissioner, where this issue will be determined after a November hearing.

The reality is that companies (other than X), comply with her ‘informal’ requests all the time. This even includes GoDaddy, a web hosting platform that sells domains and takes down websites at her request. So the existing practice already circumvents all the extensive statutory safeguards. The Mis/Dis/Info Bill has the potential to make this even worse. Remember that the eSafety Commissioner is a part of ACMA and all her staff are on its payroll.

But wait, there are some other nasties.

Labor has also launched two other bills that have attracted less attention. The first concerns ‘Doxxing’, but goes well beyond this legitimate concern. If the Bill passes, saying that ‘Roxanne Tickle is a biological man who was originally called Jason’ could potentially land you in prison for up to seven years. The same would go for telling people where Dan Andrews plays golf. Such lengthy custodial sentences would be grossly disproportionate and the effect would be to bring any form of trans rights into disrepute, injuring those the legislation was apparently designed to protect. It is the opposite of progressive.

Then there is the Hate Speech Bill, which will make it even easier to imprison someone for incitement. This works by making modifications to existing offences, lowering the threshold for conviction, and expanding the coverage to a wider range of groups. This is another hidden nasty that it risks being used to imprison people for social media posts, in a similarly draconian manner to what is happening in the UK. Of course, these bills are given no prominence by the government because they don’t want you to know what they are up to.

We’ve got a fight on our hands! The Free Speech Union will be hard at work challenging these Bills. We’ve made a tool that helps you very quickly write a submission to the Senate in a matter of minutes. But please do hurry, you’ve only got until the September 30 to lodge a submission!

To make it easier, here’s the link:freespeechunion.au/misinfo

It is time to write! While we still can.

Dr Reuben Kirkham is a founder of the Free Speech Union of Australia.

Kneel
Kneel
September 27, 2024 9:27 am
Bungonia Bee
Bungonia Bee
September 27, 2024 9:29 am

Laura Jayes and Fluffy Annaliese almost choke at having to report about Melania having an interview with Fox News, and speaking at an event for Gay & Lesbian Republicans.

They manage to infer that Melania blaming the media and the democrats for the two (so far) attempted assassinations of her husband is a bit of a stretch!

What’s more, her being paid to do that public engagement is almost distasteful to the Daytime Sky crew, something never inferred if it’s Michelle or Hillary.

Last edited 52 minutes ago by Bungonia Bee
Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
September 27, 2024 9:32 am
Dunny Brush
Dunny Brush
September 27, 2024 9:34 am

Just noticed the Burgatory in Surrey Hills has closed down. Good.

Bungonia Bee
Bungonia Bee
September 27, 2024 9:39 am

Only four days to comment on Albo’s Ministry of Truth legislation.
More power to the UN? No thanks.
Global Government? The UN doing the Devil’s work.

Rockdoctor
Rockdoctor
September 27, 2024 9:39 am

Roger

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least and been a bit of military traffic in and out of RAAF Garbutt lately and normally I’d think nothing other than a tad more than usual but for the escalation in southern Lebanon. Lets hope it doesn’t reach into the northern areas around Tripoli.

It would be a thankless task for our troops dealing with these low-lives and how many would be Hezbollah/terror organisation combatant fleeing back to the safety of Oz.

Cassie of Sydney
September 27, 2024 9:51 am

As you know, I come from a dog loving family. Any canine lucky enough to find a home in my family is one fortunate canine. They become part of the family. We adore them.

I wish dogs lived for ever, it’s unfair we outlive them. I believe dogs are angels sent by Hashem, to provide us humans with eternal comfort, loyalty and love. I know the more rational here might think I’m ‘barking’ mad (pardon the pun) but it’s something I believe.

The Hebrew word for dog is ‘Caleb’ or ‘Calev’. Caleb means ‘wholehearted and dog-like’. The boy’s name, Caleb’, means ‘loyalty and devotion’, traits which our canine friends possess in abundance. The word and the name ‘celebrates the faithful human companion’s most beloved qualities‘.

The Midrash tells us that when we left Egypt, whilst we packed and prepared to flee, the dogs of Egypt didn’t bark so as to protect the Hebrews fleeing. And last year, the dogs across the kibbutzim, moshavs and towns of Southern Israel alerted Jews by barking ferociously. Many lives were saved because of our canine friends. Many dogs paid a heavy price for their loyalty and love, many were slaughtered by Hamas Nazi scum.

It’s no accident that Jews love dogs whilst Muslims don’t.

I write this because yesterday my sister had to put down her Australian terrier. It was not an easy decision for her, over the last two years this little canine treasure had succumbed to diabetes (some breeds are more prone to this than others). Despite morning and evening insulin injections, she went blind, and over the last few weeks she was knocking into walls and weeing everywhere. She had become reed thin, what kept her alive was love.

I cried last night when I heard the news.

I know her soul has returned to Hashem. There is no dog heaven, there’s just one heaven, a place called ‘Shamayim’ where our souls return to Hashem. I can think of no greater privilege than sharing Shamayim with our canine friends.

Rosie
Rosie
September 27, 2024 9:51 am

Only censored for you Jo

Beertruk
September 27, 2024 9:56 am

Cassie of Sydney
 September 27, 2024 9:51 am

I wish dogs lived for ever, it’s unfair we outlive them. I believe dogs are angels sent by Hashem, to provide us humans with eternal comfort, loyalty and love. I know the more rational here might think I’m ‘barking’ mad (pardon the pun) but it’s something I believe.

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”- Will Rogers

Last edited 24 minutes ago by Beertruk
Delta A
Delta A
September 27, 2024 10:13 am

Wordle in two again!

How do ya like them Sapote, Panzer?

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 27, 2024 10:15 am

Having trouble posting overnight.
Am I in some sort of moderation?

Where in this society am I as a human being?

My mouth is gagged.

Who made me that way? The Government!

I have nothing to lose.

Why are you doing this to me Dover?

Why?
I’m the victim here!

Cassie of Sydney
September 27, 2024 10:16 am

I do Wordle every day, along with my sister and two nephews. We have a competition and we text each other our scores.

Today I was 3/6.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 27, 2024 10:17 am

Oh.
Looks like I am not banned or in moderation.
As you were.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
September 27, 2024 10:20 am

Cassie of Sydney
 September 27, 2024 10:16 am

I do Wordle every day, along with my sister and two nephews. We have a competition and we text each other our scores.

Today I was 3/6.

Lucky.
Mrs P and I do it over coffee every day.
It oscillates between a game of skill and a game of chance, depending on who wins.
Kids now play it in Primary School which I think is a fun way to build literacy skills.
I also do Quordle, Octordle and Strands.

  1. Another suggestion I’ve heard is that they’ll completely retire Biden, make Kamala President to gain the kudos of incumbancy and…

  2. Cassie of Sydney  September 27, 2024 10:16 am I do Wordle every day, along with my sister and two nephews.…

  3. At the heart of China’s problems is corruption. The country has been beset by quality problems in everything from shipbuilding…

  4. I do Wordle every day, along with my sister and two nephews. We have a competition and we text each…

407
0
Oh, you think that, do you? Care to put it on record?x
()
x