Self Defence? The Most Violent in 20 Years?

Now admittedly, I’m not overly experienced in this ‘suppression of your citizens’ gig. The only time I’ve stood the line was when a mass of humanity was coming at us with raised Machetes, in a foreign country*. ‘Peppering’ my own citizens for wielding freshly emblazoned placards, is not my speciality.

However, I do know a little something about provocation and response. Below is a video I cut down for ease of viewing. It is 1 minute long. Rest assured the proceeding 30 minutes consisted entirely of normal people walking down the streets of Melbourne conversing about their frustrations. Take note of the intersection, the lack of people in it, the lack of provocation, and the obvious commands to open fire. You can make up your own minds.

No, I don’t buy the ‘only in self-defence’ line in regards to the use of VicPol’s new toys. Take note of the bloke who obviously copped it in the mouth.

If you want a fight, this is precisely how you bring it about. I’m not for a second denying that VicPol got a response, you’d be blind not to have seen it on the MSM. That is exactly what you get when you trap an animal and start belting it. Even a cornered Rat will fight back.

The provocation which resulted in the volley of Kinetic ammunition was hardly of Zulu standards, if the video is any indication:

As for the Chief Commissioner’s claim about the ‘most violent’, Arky and I watched both the Riot in Flemington in 2017 (Milo Yiannopoulos), and the fracas outside of the Lauren Southern Event. The former constituted an endless stream of bricks, bottles, and God knows what else, for hours on end. I’m dubious of the Commissioner’s claim, to say the least. More to the point, the differences in what was being protested are light years apart.

*Yes, when the Machete-wielding individuals charged at me, I did have my rifle raised. Yes, I did have a round up the spout. Yes, I did have my finger on the trigger. No, I didn’t end up firing…because even the lowliest baggyarse soldier knows what crowds do when you start shooting at them, even if only to hurt.

75 thoughts on “Self Defence? The Most Violent in 20 Years?”

  1. It’s a “different kind of violence”, Mater.

    Like the climate “debate” the truth is…flexible. I only have to hear the righteous indignation from people I once thought valued freedom to understand how deeply the fear propaganda has penetrated.

    Next time they’ll use live rounds and the captives will applaud their bravery. Because “safe”.


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  2. Next time they’ll use live rounds and the captives will applaud their bravery. Because “safe”.

    Yes Calli, it’s a brilliant ploy.

    Make every individual a risk to other individuals, just by their very existence.
    It leads nowhere good.


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  3. I do like your musings, Mater. Always thoughtful. Ch9 is just the worst. Hard to think Peter Costello is chair. My own thoughts are that the media love this and that future protest should be outside the TV stations buildings. Signs like that lady with “the media are the virus”. Cops have a certain amount of toughness, TV talking heads don’t. There are apps like Virtual Teleprompter for your tablets, scrolling messages.


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  4. Now that I am about to be forced out of my job as an ambo, I think the best way to spend my long service leave will be practising archery, brushing up my horse wrangling skills and learning a useful craft such as tanning and saddle making.

    The country’s done, we’re tribes now, or soon will be.


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  5. VicPol lost the respect and trust of the general population ages ago when they arrested and handcuffed that little pregnant woman in her home for *gasp* posting a protest meeting date on Facebook.

    it seems they now see Joe and Jane Public as their enemies, to be harassed, clubbed down and shot at for disobeying some unelected bugman’s “orders”.

    Trust and respect can take years to build, it can be thrown away in minutes by out of control thug police like the clown who arrested the woman and that hyped up donkey cop shouting at the crowd to “come and get it, pussies”.

    No wonder so many long serving and honest cops are quitting the force. They didn’t sign up for this shit, nor are they willing to “just obey orders”.


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  6. Trust and respect can take years to build, it can be thrown away in minutes by out of control thug police like the clown who arrested the woman and that hyped up donkey cop shouting at the crowd to “come and get it, pussies”.

    A few weeks back on the old Cat , a question was raised regarding sympathy for the 4 cops killed in the roadside accident. I made it clear then and do so now: none whatsoever. VikPol are our enemy in Vicco. That much has been clear since last year.


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  7. There will be no escape, this will only escalate. The side that loses will be the one to blink first.

    What will Victorians do when Police murder protesters?

    This WILL happen.

    There will be lamentings about how “mistakes were made”, there will be enquiries, there will be platitudes. But the point will have been made:

    Turn up to protest and we can murder you with impunity.


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  8. it seems they now see Joe and Jane Public as their enemies, to be harassed, clubbed down and shot at for disobeying some unelected bugman’s “orders”.

    Two observations:

    The Police are brainwashed. Their motto is “uphold the right” – essentially to serve the community and serve the law. They are not serving the law by supporting arbitrary draconian (and extra constitutional) rules (note – not LAWS). They are not serving the community by VIOLENTLY enforcing these rules … and by violently this means using near or actually lethal measures for simply voicing opposition for these rules… See Zimbardo’s Stamford Prison and Milgram’s obedience experiments.

    The Police are now no longer a part of the community. Us and Them. They have been isolated, vilified and dehumanised – principally by the media. They have been goaded by media and others into behaving like bullies… And they now know the threat of violence AGAINST them is possible.

    And so they follow orders and some (not all) happily hurt those who they see as Them.


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  9. Great post, Mater.

    I don’t know what the politicians think human beings can take.

    As you say, Mater, the people in the three videos I’ve watched (including this one) are acting like normal people – there was no “in-your-face” stuff from the public to the police.

    On Avi’s vid, he spoke with a young woman for a couple of seconds who said that she had not come out last time because she was too scared but, she thought, this time, well, f*ck it! Some of the placards I saw said things like: “Our patience is at an end.”

    A lot of this stuff is being fuelled by such nebulous ideas as “security” and “diversity.” “We need to protect you from this virus so we’ll have to shoot at you, arrest and cuff you, to do it;” or, “for diversity’s sake, we’ll have to let males claiming to be females into female-only areas.”

    This is the imbecilic end to what the state has determined is right for “the everyone.” What we are learning is that every line of thought, process and endeavour determined by the state when proper controls are not in place to curb it, will lead to state excess. And on Saturday, that is what we saw.


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  10. it seems they now see Joe and Jane Public as their enemies, to be harassed, clubbed down and shot at for disobeying some unelected bugman’s “orders”.

    Politicians have come to believe that ‘our’ freedoms are what they give us, so be doled out according to their own priorities.

    This is how they think of money as well.

    They are looking at the wrong (and ahistorical) end. To them any legislation that sets out to protect a freedom (say, free speech) shows that the freedom comes from the legislation.

    I really wonder what kind of a personality is it that from the beginning aspires to a career in politics.

    I can understand someone who becomes a mechanic really likes cars and gets a buzz from understanding how they work and how they can tinker with it. A musician hears music and wants to be able to create something as beautiful as what they hear. A doctor wants to make sick people better. A scientist is fascinated by nature’s puzzle and wants to mix things things together – just to see what happens.

    Even a police officer may have started out with catching crooks and stopping kids from falling into criminal ways. I doubt they start out with dreams of finding decomposing children under sheets of corrugated iron in bushlands or collecting body parts after a car accident.

    But a political career? What is the draw for them? Does a normal teen dream of legislating? Of making the nation re-configure itself to their whim because they think they know best? Politics is power. People attracted to it feel they should have power. They don’t even seem to think it is a matter of truly deserving it since they lie and cheat to get it.

    Rotten people through and through.


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  11. The Black shirts are in the streets and Scummo, again, said this morning while waving his National Cabinet “Agreement”to open up, “we’ll have peace in our time.”


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  12. rickw

    There will be no escape, this will only escalate. The side that loses will be the one to blink first.

    What will Victorians do when Police murder protesters?

    This WILL happen.

    There will be lamentings about how “mistakes were made”, there will be enquiries, there will be platitudes. But the point will have been made:

    Turn up to protest and we can murder you with impunity.

    The Indonesians thought that when they opened fire on protestors in an East Timor cemetery in the 1990s.

    I suspect that “progressive” leftist fascists like Dan Xi Man screeched about that, but are too self-centered to see themselves now behaving like the Indonesians then.


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  13. There will be lamentings about how “mistakes were made”, there will be enquiries, there will be platitudes. But the point will have been made

    I don’t think so rickw, didn’t happen for Ashley Babbit.
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  14. My admittedly rough understanding is that when it comes to claiming self defence in a court of law, one of the elements considered is proportionality: what is considered ‘reasonable’ use of force in the circumstances.

    Granted, our various paramilitary – sorry, police – services are likely empowered to use scales of force in various circumstances. However, I would like to think that proportionality in the execution of such force is still an important feature in whatever standards of conduct or legislative authority still applies.

    Consider that (a) The police were both trained and a percentage perhaps had prior experience, in these circumstances. We might assume that most of the public present (how many were simply passive gawkers?) had never received any such training, or acquired similar experience.

    (b) The police were armed with the necessary tools for conflict – including for self-protection (shields, body (limb/joint) armour) – while none of the crowd appeared to be similarly equipped.

    (c) The police had the protection of the authority granted to them to apply physical force, while the public had no such protection.

    Taking into account the above differences in ability and capacity, does it appear that the behaviour of the participants occupying the undeniably superior position (training/experience, equipment, institutional protection), was proportional?


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  15. No wonder so many long serving and honest cops are quitting the force. They didn’t sign up for this shit, nor are they willing to “just obey orders”.

    the real worry is that the Old Dogs will be replaced with New Dogs


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  16. He defended the use of ­pepper bullets and spray, saying police needed to de-escalate the situation

    I blame George Orwell for teaching the left how to use oxymorons as legitimate arguments.


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  17. Makka says:
    August 23, 2021 at 11:04 am

    A few weeks back on the old Cat , a question was raised regarding sympathy for the 4 cops killed in the roadside accident. I made it clear then and do so now: none whatsoever.

    I don’t come here seeking conflict, but I feel I must register my disagreement with that comment. When this subject was raised a few months ago, there were several similar remarks made by posters which I found not just disgusting, but disturbing. By all means reject or rage at the institution, and certainly identify and excoriate those individuals who should not be empowered with such authority due to their demonstrated moral or behavioural inadequacies.

    Even if the four officers who were killed were utter bastards, or shite at their jobs, to reject any compassion for those they left behind is pathological.

    I don’t direct this wholly at you, Makka, but when this online conversation took place at Cat2, I realised there were not just sick mofos ‘out there’ but also ‘in here’ too.


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  18. Even if the four officers who were killed were utter bastards, or shite at their jobs, to reject any compassion for those they left behind is pathological.

    Rubbish Muddy. You can carry on like a soft cock all you want but the bottom line, if the situations were reversed, those blackshirts wouldn’t bat an eyelid for the public’s distress. Last year and this VikPol has demonstrated time and again the contempt they have for the public. At the highest levels and with plod on the street. The feeling is mutual and I’m holding THEM accountable for that situation.

    I think you need to take a serious look at where we are and grow a pair if that is your weak kneed position. I didn’t wish them harm, I simply said I have no sympathy- and still don’t.


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  19. Vicpol has a way to go before we can celebrate the demise of their members the same way one would the end of a member of the Stasi or Gestapo.
    But they’re on the road to it.


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  20. And Muddy, while you are blathering on about compassion, remember this. Last year over 600 people died in Victoria largely due to the corruption and ineptitude of this Govt and a high ranking VikPol official in charge of Emergency Victoria who failed completely in his duty of maintaining the integrity of our quarantine regime. The Inquiry was the usual clown show , and he skated with the “I don’t recall” defence. Zero accountability with maximum paypacket. The largest loss of life in peacetime in Australia’s history for one event and no-one is responsible?

    My compassion is for those poor buggers and their families not any of VikPol’s stormtroops.


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  21. Vicpol has a way to go before we can celebrate the demise of their members the same way one would the end of a member of the Stasi or Gestapo.

    Cut the verballing bs, Arky. I stated clearly I have no sympathy. You stated I celebrated it, which I did not.


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  22. How’s that service sector economy going?
    Good move knocking manufacturing on the head so that everyone could live within five minutes of a cafe, dog washing mobile or blowjob.
    I guess now that the cov has eliminated the service sector, we can go straight to what they really wanted: half on welfare and the other half alternately servicing and policing all the poor fucks on welfare.
    Everyone, one way or the other, institutionalised.
    Good work Liberal party.
    You dolts.


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  23. On the other cat I have someone misquoting me, on here I have someone I never referred to at all accusing me of misquoting them.
    Do any of you pricks actually read what I write, or do you just hover your cock over the screen and use the force?


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  24. Even a police officer may have started out with catching crooks and stopping kids from falling into criminal ways.
    reminds me of the character, BOSCORELLI, from the TV series THIRD WATCH who only ever saw his job as catching the bad guys .. so whilst he the kicked doors and pursued armed hoodlums down streets & alleys lots of his fellow officers were, taking freebies, chasing promotion and laughing behind his back …….


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  25. Muddy:
    Even if the four officers who were killed were utter bastards, or shite at their jobs, to reject any compassion for those they left behind is pathological

    Muddy, I think we’ve gone beyond that now. In normal times all of us should have as their default care and compassion for our fellow Australians whomever they may be and whatever job they perform. In the case of the police, our cultural mindset has been historically to see them as putting their lives on the line to make our lives safe. But that general and widespread view is being sadly pushed to its limits in this new world of police state rule.

    The problem is that there are millions of Australians who are under house arrest, who cannot work and therefore cannot pay their bills, whose businesses have gone bust, who cannot obtain schooling for their children, medical care, the love and support of their family and friends, and this has been brought about not from anything that they have done but because the state has forcibly taken their rights from them.

    But it goes even further than that. The government and the police are doing their best to demonise average, law abiding citizens who have now deemed that in a free society “enough is enough.” Now, police have fired plastic bullets, with no provocation, at a defenceless crowd. It is not something that any right thinking individual would be happy to witness and/or experience. I can understand why emotions are raw and how language may prick sensibilities.

    In the case you refer to, and leaving aside the moronic and appalling behaviour of the motorist after the accident, the police and media chose deliberately to depict him in the worst possible light while the driver of the heavy vehicle was made into a bit part in the drama and then almost “lost” in the subsequent reporting, despite his clear culpability and subsequent 22 year gaol term.

    The first reference to truth in relation to war comes from Aeschylus (525 BC – 456 BC) who wrote that ‘In war, truth is the first casualty.’ On the streets of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth, the men and women of Australia are marching for their liberty yet, already, the truth of the endeavour is being manipulated and quashed by the police with media support.

    So the same thing that happened to the motorist is happening to ordinary Australians who decided to march at the weekend and who are being described as yobs and stupid people. While, conversely, the police are being depicted as the upholders of the peace and protectors of the community. Yet on the ground, the experience of the marchers clearly is quite different.

    Up thread I noticed Pedro refer to that young, pregnant woman being arrested and handcuffed in her own home last year for posting a notice on her fb page about a demonstration. As he said, and I concur, that was the day that VicPol lost any semblance of a dignified and worthy organisation responsible for “upholding the right.” Politicians (and the police) are playing with fire, yet they are choosing not to pull back. It is they who are dividing Australians and in doing so, much is being lost, not least respect for each other and any concern for the “boys in blue,” who, as Mater noted, have lost nothing in this new world order.


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  26. Leftists at work approve of the weekends police brutality.

    That’s the standout I noticed in comments at The Australian.
    About half the comments were lamenting that the punishments are not harsh enough, that NSW Police don’t have enough power, & that Vic Plod were too restrained in handling the crowd.


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  27. BBS, we’re all suffering from Compassion Overload.

    Our heartstrings are being pulled this way and that, and if the response isn’t as desired, there’s an instant “nudge” to rightthink. The bombardment is constant, relentless.

    I know I should feel sorry for them. I want to feel sorry for them. But I feel sorry for others first, ones that I know who are bereaved, isolated, lonely, afraid and who the police would pick up in a heartbeat if they broke the “rules”.

    Like Bilbo, my compassion is starting to feel like too little butter spread over too much bread.


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  28. I know I should feel sorry for them. I want to feel sorry for them. But I feel sorry for others first, ones that I know who are bereaved, isolated, lonely, afraid and who the police would pick up in a heartbeat if they broke the “rules”

    calli, +1


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  29. Do any of you pricks actually read what I write, or do you just hover your cock over the screen and use the force?

    It’s remarks like that which remind me why I have some duct tape covering my webcam.


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  30. Franxsays:
    August 23, 2021 at 4:11 pm
    Ikamatua
    No, you were not misquoted on the other thread. Nor misunderstood, hence more’s the pity.

    ..
    Liar.


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  31. Here it is:
    “And something about “funnelling of citizens onto the streets”not being a wise approach. Edifying stuff.”

    Compare your hysterical misquote with the true thing I actually said:

    “Whatever you decide to do from here has to have a lot more subtlety and intelligence behind it than funnelling citizens onto the street for a few hours every month to get arrested and shot at.”


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  32. Whatever you decide to do from here has to have a lot more subtlety and intelligence behind it than funnelling citizens onto the street for a few hours every month to get arrested and shot at.

    That chimed with me. I wonder if a goodly number of shut-ins of Ashfield and Summer Hill did a little “exercise” around the elite film set today? Social distanced, of course, but not necessarily wearing masks (I can think of a few pithy things they could have masks printed with to make their point).

    Bet they didn’t. Because it’s more fun to rowdy up and down George Street and confront the police.

    The police might be called to the set, but what could exercisers be pinged for? And it would make excellent vision for the ever hungry web-mill.


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  33. Ikamatua
    The parodies are fun for as long as there is no crossover where the artist takes on the persona of the target parodied.
    Otherwise it sounds a bit too much like you-know-who to say, ‘ why don’t you fucking understand what’s said to you.’ Might suit miming in auslan.


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  34. You do your fellow citizens disservice to speak of them as passive objects who Allowed themselves to be found funnelled into the streets.
    I think they made a difficult decision to go. I think most people were afraid.
    But in light of the put downs, who needs the msm. Stupid stupid country, as they say.


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  35. Arky has a point.

    Wear the authorities down. Set up “flash mobs”, assemble, then break up as soon as police turn up. Re-assemble nearby later, repeat as often as suits.

    Wear masks, bland clothing, hats with brims and sunglasses (slip, slop, slap, be health and camera conscious). Placards held in hands, not on poles, fold them up as the mob breaks up to “exercise separately.

    Organise fake “flash mobs” as the police start to plan ahead, so resources are wasted on empty streets.


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  36. The rally was not organised.
    There is very little – if any – opportunity to organise.
    All these lovely ideas about flash events, like some pop up enterprise – be camera conscious’. The people are distressed. They are not extras on a film set.


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  37. One of the newses on that evening reported that protestors even turned on the media! They then showed footage of a woman calmly but sternly berating the news crew. I’d love to give her a medal. The snippet from memory was “I’m not afraid of you…I’m not afraid of you..or your little girlfriend [directed at another member of the crew]…you’re traitors…traitors..

    I’ve also seen several clips of the protest crowd in which women in muslim headscarves can be seen. Funny how they weren’t singled out for attention by the bulletin.


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  38. People are being subject to psychological warfare.
    I don’t know what the answer is.
    I not a solutions guy.
    I’m the “everything is shit guy”.
    Don’t look to me for a path out. I’m no leader.
    But I did predict all this months before most others did.
    So there is that.


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  39. calli at 4:53pm.
    The problem is that we’ve gone beyond it would make excellent vision for the ever hungry web-mill. We’ve got people who haven’t been able to work much for weeks and live normal lives. With every indication that these lockdown controls will go on in Victoria and NSW past the end of September, these are desperate times for a lot of our fellow citizens. If people already are suffering now from all manner of things – financially, health wise, anxiety, depression – how will they be managing or not by then? Vision for the ever hungry web-mill would seem ancillary in such a situation.

    This is not about encouragement of others to march and demonstrate; it is up to the individual and his/her family to decide what they should do. Just as it is up to the individual to weigh up whether they’re happy to get the jab.

    The PM says now we have to start treating ‘rona like the ‘flu once the nation gets to 70% vaccination and that government support cannot be open-ended; the premiers say they reserve the right to change (read, renege) on the National Cabinet decision they signed up to only a week or so ago; while none of the officials are telling the people the truth or helping them to surmount their worries. Instead, the citizens of this country are midpoint in the machinations of an unsavoury and destructive political class that sees the police as their agents and the people as dispensable. And all of this was on full display at the weekend.


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  40. Franx, I was exploring another avenue of protest.

    The Borg of the Left appear to do “spontaneous yet organised”. I wonder how they do it?

    As for confronting the police and “fun”, I don’t fancy it. But my scenario for Ashfield had no confrontational elements in it at all.

    I found this morning’s Leak cartoon of the fracas very interesting. Did you notice the bandana’d guy in the front? Leak may have been alluding to an agent provocateur- now they have no difficulty confronting the police at all. It feeds their desire for anarchy and adrenaline.


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  41. Calli
    Did you notice the bandana’d guy in the front? Leak may have been alluding to an agent provocateur- now they have no difficulty confronting the police at all. It feeds their desire for anarchy and adrenaline

    The cartoon may have been designed to provide balance and perhaps there were some provocateurs present in the crowd. But from the clip that Mater put up for this thread, there did not seem to be anyone close to the police when the shots were fired. At that point there seemed no risk to the police from the public, nor did it look like they were going to be in any danger, and not enough for the police to fire at defenceless people to gain control supposedly of a “precarious” situation.


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  42. At that point there seemed no risk to the police from the public, nor did it look like they were going to be in any danger, and not enough for the police to fire at defenceless people to gain control supposedly of a “precarious” situation.

    Agree absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind that the police behaved abominably (see my first comment on this thread).

    I may have since committed the inexcusable crime of derailing Mater’s thread with other issues, so apologies to him.


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  43. The other vid courtesy of XYZ where a bloke is questioning the police “you’re not going to use that, are you? What is that?” while he points at the semi-auto pepper-paint-ball whatever (Is it just an AR15 with pepper rounds?)

    Next thing – they’re popping him in the guts at point blank range.


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  44. To state the obvious: This is a public forum. We know the elite’s hit-poodles, the media, are very willing to and capable of, taking words or behaviours out of context and repackaging them to further their agenda. With the pace of the media cycle, by the time the targets get around to defending themselves, the spotlight has moved on, and the victim remains branded. When the same group is branded again and again, the underexposed form the opinion – in the absence of a contrasting message – that whatever this heavily branded group says or does in the future, should be ignored. Add this extra hurdle to the lack of resources, and it becomes more difficult to share what we are passionate about.

    This isn’t about ‘free speech.’ This is about being smart enough to look forward and deny those who seek to damage us, the opportunity to do so. It isn’t always going to work, but if we aren’t willing to seize the initiative, the least we can do is pretend we actually give a sh!t.


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  45. People are being subject to psychological warfare.
    I don’t know what the answer is.
    I not a solutions guy.

    Educate and wait. The State has managed to produce a bunch of Mongs so thick they think this is all ok. They won’t get it until the jackboot meets their own face.


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  46. There was a post very early on in one of the new Cats suggesting that instead of marching, people stay at home, open the front door, stay inside and bang pots together at a given time and post themselves doing it all over social media. They are not doing anything that is illegal or could provoke a police response.


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  47. People in Western Sydney should all take a garden chair out and sit on their lawn for 15 minutes or so at 9pm every night and howl at the sky or something. And then post it all over social media


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  48. Diogenessays:
    August 23, 2021 at 7:00 pm
    There was a post very early on in one of the new Cats suggesting that instead of marching, people stay at home, open the front door, stay inside and bang pots together at a given time and post themselves doing it all over social media. They are not doing anything that is illegal or could provoke a police response.

    That was the return of Professor Bunyip. He goes outside at Vicco Curfew time, and sounds a tattoo on his kitchen pot.

    Perhaps a bugler/cornetist/trumpeter could sound “Lights Out”?


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  49. PS, noise complaints by unsympathetic neighbours might be problematic?
    _————-
    If done at a reasonable time and for no longer than say 5 mins then the complaint will be ignored.

    Areader no need for snark. If it takes off like that stupid clapping for the NHS , it will eventually attract media attention and give a chance for the rightly pissed off the ability to protest without copping a massive fine or a police bullet or nanny saying ” I am so disappointed, the lockdowns will continue until the lockdown protests stop”


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  50. In the UK, whenever the riot shields and helmets are broken out (which used to be quite often), every helmet carries rank and serial markings so individuals can still be identified by police command and civilian alike. Tellingly not the case with the new VikPol kit.
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  51. Perfidious Albino

    I am old enough to remember leftist protestors (before most leftists became fascists) complaining that J B-P’s police removed their numbers before wading into the crowd.

    Now the police of fascist Victoria don’t have to remove their numbers, they are never on display.


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