And what happens when, as a consequence, things the US cares about explode in turn? Then we will find out…
Open Thread – Weekend 12 March 2022
- Open Thread – Mon 25 Nov 2024
- The more you gets the less you eats
- Open Thread – Weekend 23 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Thurs 21 Nov 2024
- Open Thread – Mon 18 Nov 2024
Missiles systems that require US operators to work? That have been used here and there even before the lifting of…
From Senator Rennick, but emphasis mine: I suspect both of these proposed bills will be passed at the end of…
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare November 25, 2024 3:36 pm Reply to Vicki I’m listening, Vicki. Maybe her friends don’t but we…
Russia Vs Ukraine actually perplexes me. In what year did the cold war begin again? Or did it actually end?…
But it is. The entire narrative line of the pro-Ukraine side is that Russia has no real interests involved, this is all about Putin, etc.
It was 2 months ago that Bourla said needed the 3rd dose because first two not effective. It is no surprise 3rd dose not work long as it is same as first two.
If we actually had an independent press, not fully supporting the Government vaccine programme, they would be putting this on the front page and saying you have got to be kidding. But no, what we will get is more experts telling us the 4th shot is necessary.
“Albert Bourla says people will need a fourth dose given protection offered from third doses “doesn’t last very long”.’
It isn’t. The entire point of the doctrine is to avoid needless death. Do you really think arming 13 year old boys and girls, and the like, to no reasonable end, is more moral than suing for peace? Keep in mind, the doctrine isn’t addressed to individual 13 year olds, and the like, they will never make these decisions, but leaders considering the conscription of the above, and their deployment in harm’s way.
I think the issue has moved on a little bit since then. The main topics for discussion now are:
-Whether Putin’s full-fledged invasion of a country that posed no threat to Russia whatsoever, shelling of civilian infrastructure, etc, is a just war or not (no one here seems to be able to say that it is a moral abomination, but perhaps we need more time!)
-Whether Ukrainians have the right to defend their country from a foreign invader, or not (I’m getting the vibe that a lot of “national” conservatives seem to think the answer is “nyet”, but let’s wait for the returns to come in first)
No it’s most certainly not. The issue is that a sovereign nation has been attacked and invaded. You’re now trying to make it sound as though it’s a just a Putin thing.
Russia under Tzar Putin has attacked a sovereign nation. He has threatened a nuclear attack against others who try to defend Ukraine’s right to exist as a sovereign nation. At each single turn, you’ve attempted to obfuscate your way out of this.
Finally, do you support Ukraine’s right to exist and make its own decisions with whom it wants to associate? It’s easy to answer, I think.
Insanity.
Pentagon gave USD 39 million to Peter Daszak’s NGO that funded coronavirus research at Wuhan lab
the deep state had its dick deep in this cake. what to make of it?
—-
A majority of DoD funding came from the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, a combat support agency with the goal to reduce the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction.
—-
so thats what you do, you pay your enemies and one of the poorest country in europe which happens to be kickback central to major dem AND gop politicians to “reduce threats”… sounds legit.
No one? Really. How about me for a start.
Figuressays:
March 14, 2022 at 10:52 pm
Jay Bhattacharya
@DrJBhattacharya
·
14h
Covid antibodies found in stored blood from Sept/Nov 2019 in European blood banks. The implications are enormous.
1. Long before the official start date, it was too late to stop the disease from spreading across the earth. We have wasted 2 years on lockdowns for nothing.
Funny. I said in January 2020 that, in the absence of a time machine, nobody could possibly know this virus was novel to humans (assuming it existed).
Did anyone disagree with you? At least, did anyone claim that the emergence of the virus could be tracked to within a few months?
Of course this won’t make any difference. If you believe being in contact with an unvaxed kid at school will cause you to die of measles but you can visit doctors every other day in perfect safety you’ll believe anything.
Isn’t that right Rex and Tim?
Poor old binary.
No matter how often we explain that no-one does visit a doctor “in perfect safety”, they just have to make a risk/reward calculation about visiting or not visiting, poor old binary is too stupid to be able to understand anything other than “100% safe/100% lethal”. He’s simply too stupid to understand that risks less than 100% but more than zero exist.
He’s genuinely too stupid to understand that lots of things have an inherent risk, and that risks have to be balanced and managed. It’s just beyond his comprehension that reducing a risk may be worthwhile even if the risk can’t be eliminated (e.g. perhaps measles vaxxes for kids), and conversely a risk may be worth taking (e.g. going to a doctor where one might, actually, have a small risk of encountering a harmful but very rarely lethal airborne virus, but the alternative is not getting an urgent test for a condition with a very high fatality rate).
“It does not compute! It does not compute!”
Poor old binary. It’s desperately sad.
Would you have said the exact same when the Soviet Union attacked Poland and split the country between itself and Nazi Germany?
If Poland gets dragged into this by a Putinist airstrike, the head explosions over at The American Conservative will be sufficient to phase out coal, nuclear and wind power the world over.
Zip
I believe it was a bunch of idiots doing the funding and had no idea what the fuck they were doing. Fauci isn’t the smartest gun in the West. They were taken for a fucking ride.
Ukraine was pivotal in helping the democrats destroy Trump’s presidency, both with Russiagate then with the impeachment.
Front and centre.
Certain loser “conservatives” now that its illegitimate democrat installed puppet government is getting the whole country smacked for being a regional shithead hopped up on US deep state power, “but POOOOOOTIN.”
Let’s edit this and put it in a historical context.
Poland was pivotal in helping Republicans destroy FDR’s presidency. This justifies both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union dismember Poland.
OK, but I don’t think that amounts to much of a casus belli under any moral or legal doctrine anywhere to be honest. Also, I’m not sure why Putin would even want to litigate the outcome of the 2020 election in the US, by blowing up a neighbouring country and ruining his own economy for a generation, but who am I to say?
I’m beginning to wonder if you actually believe Putin was somehow incapacitated and unable to make his own decision to invade the Ukraine and blow up its cities, or if mind-rays emanating from some place took charge and called all the shots for him. This is very odd.
When one of mine Entered Law the pep talk from the Supreme was to tell them, (all those new young lawyers), to go out and “BE ACTIVISTS”, to ignore those who said they couldn’t or shouldn’t and to actively look to change things.
Maybe, but that’s never how it plays out on the ground. It weakens those who fight by it, while providing a tactical and strategic advantage to those who don’t. Exhibit A: Afghanistan. We fought the ‘moral’ war, while losing the actual war. The needless deaths kept on for year after year. Fighting a war without trying to win is immoral.
No. Not at all.
lets ignore the ongoing atrocities in the Donbas or that the evidence is that troops were amassing to invade donetsk and luhansk…
defend away, whats it got to do with us? there are numerous other wars currently raging should we get on our high horse about these too?
I can definitely think of some scenarios where that would be a pretty understandable roll of the dice. But anyway, I’m seeing people thinking up a lot of reasons under various doctrines why Ukrainians shouldn’t defend their own country, but not too many that might explain why Russia shouldn’t have invaded in the first place.
Who knew that Just War Doctrine was so lopsided!
OK, I must have missed all the pixels you dedicated to explaining why the war is a splendid idea that Putin is entirely right to prosecute, in self-defence, against a Jewish Nazi Junta in Kiev/Kyiv.
Come on, we’ve had countless regime changes over the last 20 or so years. No one in the West cared a jot about the sovereignty of those states. Eight years earlier, the US was involved in the coup of a democratically elected government and caught on tape deciding who was going to lead the new regime and who should be left out of sight doing the dirty work.
I haven’t obfuscated anything. If Ukraine wants to exist it has to find a modus vivendi with Russia. If it is going to go the NATO road it will and is going to get wrecked. That is just a recognition of the situation it finds itself.
No, we don’t need more time. Russia’s invasion was immoral according to any reading of just-war theory – Aquinas, Augustine, Salamanca etc.
Some of us are trying to understand the war from the standpoint of realpolitic, not feelz. That means we can loathe Putin and seek to assess Russia’s national interest (as Russians see it) and compare that to the national interest policies and actions of the West. If we do so, it’s problematic for us that we gave a green light to the East Timor genocide, for example. I’m pretty sure East Timor was no threat to Indonesia or Australia.
Nah it didn’t “move on”, it magically went from 2014 you gleefully cheerleading the violent and morally revolting overthrow of Ukraine’s last legitimate and elected government by US democrats because it was too “pro Russian”, violently disenfranchising the Russian quarter of the country, something something eight years later…”OH MY GOD PUTINHITLERSTALIN INVASION HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?”.
Well let’s have a little talk about what happened in the eight years since you supported the country being turned into a oligarch playground complete with US State Dept. installed junta. But funnily enough none of the Euromaidan cheerleaders want to.
If you’re so upset about it, I guess you’ll concede you should have listened in 2014 that violently overthrowing a duly elected government and installing a US / German puppet junta in a Russian border country was probably, you know, a world war level bad idea.
What else did you think would happen? And why should we listen to you now?
we are not talking pocket money here.
compare and contrast with canada.
nobody asked fauci to walk. to me this implies he and the others were working with the CIA. you are asking us to believe that fauci was so stupid as to be suckered into giving the chinks a ton of money and access to knowledge how to concoct chimeric lethal viruses for “threat reduction”? I don’t know, the DoD, CIA would have to be complete fucking morons to even contemplate this, unless there was a reason for it.
Didn’t the US hit the Chinese embassy in Belgrade?
Are you for real Dover? What’s happening in Ukraine is not an Iraq-like regime change. It’s a wholesale takeover of a sovereign nation by Russia.
I have no idea what you’re talking about and if the US did this how does it justify the invasion of the Ukraine?
You’re okay with the wrecking part though if the Ukraine doesn’t bow to the Tzar. Correct?
..
I don’t give a rat’s clacker about the rights or wrongs of it.
Not my concern. Not something I can do anything about either.
Also don’t care that both sides during a war, shockingly, tell lies and use indoctrination and propaganda. Always.
I don’t care if Ukraine has dozens of bio weapon labs, if it’s run by complete cock knocking criminals or if Ukrainian natives have appalling personal hygiene. Or not.
I only care, out of total self interest, the precedent gets set that in the third decade of the 21st century, an invading force with all the armour and air power and mass, risks getting the shit beaten out of it by a well prepared home team with MANPADs, cheap drones, well drilled and committed men and the assist of US intel.
And that Xi also sees this and thinks twice before having a go in our region.
And none of this has much to do with the utter abortion that our elites have inflicted on us after the release of the Covid cold virus from that Wuhan lab. Although it’s understandable that the experience has somewhat soured our belief in the West, one must retain faith that it can come good again. After all, 3 million Ukrainians aren’t fleeing to Russia, are they?
OK, good to know.
Preaching to the choir. If you’d asked me (for what it’s worth) prior to the invasion whether Ukraine should join the EU let alone NATO, I would have answered: absolutely not, ever, under any circumstances. Now, I would definitely put both on the table, not as a serious offer, but as a way to induce Putin to withdraw from everywhere except the Crimea.
In the meantime, I’d pile every form of lethal ordinance into Ukraine in order to bleed Putin and his busted-ass economy to death, while slapping secondary sanctions on anyone who might be thinking about replenishing his military (also, maybe find a way for some Taiwanese officers to get combat experience, below the radar of course)…
First off the US called it an accident and apologized. If you have any contrary evidence then present it. Do you?
The issue of a bomb being lobbed over a clear border is altogether different to an accident at a building well INSIDE a border
Actually, my position is really simple, which is that Putin has made a catastrophic and immoral decision to invade Ukraine, and has probably destroyed his own country in the process. I’m guessing you don’t agree, and believe Putin has in fact made a wise decision to invade Ukraine???
Please bear with me, please, gentlepeople, while I vent!
Fuck, fuck, fucketty, fuck!
Thank you; that feels much better.
Why the rant? A brief history — a triple CABG almost 20 years ago, a stent to open up scar tissue about 4 years ago, and a stent inside that stent when the original began to fail.
So what?
The past couple of days, when walking, pain in my lower jaw/back molars down into my wrists, plus headache. Rest, and it all goes away.
See doctor tonight, had ECG, given nitrolingual spray, told to see my cardiologist ASAP.
FMD; here we go again!!!
jupes:
Oh yes.
That sounds pretty worrying. Best of luck, Bruce.
Putin is a loser who could have been a great figure in Russian history.
He straightened the joint up after Yeltsin but, like every other tyrannical asshole in history, he couldn’t let go. Russia should be one of the world’s dynamic, rejuvenated nations. Resource mega-rich, ultra-brainy population, sophisticated culture, it had everything going for it. It could have been a resources and technology powerhouse. But no. That means democracy and the rule of law. The East has been having a sook about he West for more than a thousand years and they just don’t want to move on.
It’s sovereign or it’s not.
It’s not given as a justification; I’m just pointing out that claims about sovereignty in the light of these interventions are made moot.
Where do I say it’s ok? If I tell someone that flirting with that guy’s wife is a bad idea and they still do it and get clobbered it doesn’t mean I’m ok with it. It means I thought it wasn’t a good idea.
If only Putin had enough smarts to ask NATO to do a Libya on Ukraine to protect civilians in Donbas from their murderous government.
Putin always seemed to me like a guy with regional street smarts. Really don’t get how he was duped into invading Ukraine by Victoria Nuland, John Kerry and Hunter Biden.
I need to get on my knees and beg 3 layers of government to give me permission to sell my own property. we are fucked, how do we ever come back from this bloated intrusive surveillance state we live in.
Good that you picked up those issues and saw the doc, Bruce.
We love the Bruce so take it easy until you see the cardio man. No triathlons.
Patron saint: St John of God. Prayer.
you do know that the entire iraq thing was revenge for saddam’s failed assassination attempt on Bush snr?
And I believe them. Similarly, I would think the same if any ordnance found its way into Poland.
The border issue is neither here nor there. The US was using an outdated map. Sometimes ordnance malfunctions or is damaged in flight.
Really , you’re asking this question? How do other nations in the world view Ukraine? Do they have embassies there?
Yep , they sure do and have done so since the 90s.
You’re trying to have it both ways now with respect to US actions in the past somehow justifying Ukraine invasion.
1. US did this so.
2. US did this so it must be okay.
Your analogy should at least describe accurately, the position the husband and wife find themselves. They’ve been divorced since 1991!
No.
It wasn’t benign like that.
If you didn’t comply, there were massive fines for businesses. It probably also helped stuff bricks and mortar retail some more.
It was also horribly divisive.
It was in no way at all benign.
Never, ever give up your nukes!
I command an army
what somebody a on blog forum pretends is rational
is not
just the way it is
The border is clear. The Chinese embassy was a building in a city. If you think this is similar then that’s bordering on weird.
Okay.
This is pretty rich. You were one of the biggest cheerleaders of Euromaidan and your cheerleading consisted loudly of the purpose being to get rid of the pro-russian elected government in favour of installing a pro EU government.
Hypocrisy thy name is Euromaidan cheerleader!
What I’d like to know though, and you would never explain at the time, and certainly not now as you go on about “people’s” right to exist, is just what you expected all the russians in russian east Ukraine to do about having their elected government violently ousted by your Ukrainian pure blood strongmen?
Do they not have a “right to exist ” and “make its own decisions with whom it wants to associate”?
Nein! You said then, and for eight long years of civil war as they attempted to separate and form their own countries where they actually get to vote.
Good. If Trump had his life imperiled by Iran, what would you have expected?
You tell us how clean Yanukovych’s elections were along with the referenda he held.
Also tell us how the ethnic Russian majority get to elect “their” President, are their votes worth more than other Ukrainians?
Bush jnr certainly found an excuse to start a war. The only right or wrong in geopolitics is the winner gets to rewrite history.
Bruce I have nerve damage in my neck that gives me similar symptoms. Some others as well, for me nothing can be done. Specialist fixed the things he didn’t know why they occurred and couldn’t fix the things he thought he could, at least it hasn’t got any worse.
Stix, I have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about. You have me confused with someone else. Got to bed.
Stix is from Queersland, so that explains both his confusion.
East Ukraine should go with the Tzar.
It’s okay with me, Champ.
I’ve never spoken about East Ukraine until now, dumbo. Never mentioned it.
Looks like Zelenskyy did really well in the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine in the 2019 election as he defeated the Euromaidan incumbent Poroshenko. Notice how the only region to vote for Poroshenko was the far west of the country.
Simply incredible that Putin was unable to capitalise on a pretty favourable election outcome for Russia, and resorted to invading and blowing up Ukraine instead.
They also had embassies in Iraq, Libya, and Syria, and yet…
No, saying that doing A will lead to B is not justifying.
The same warning holds given the husband.
No, I said the border issue was irrelevant if it’s a mistake.
A False Flag Is Coming
Gonzalo Lira
Indeed, because in 2019 he was pursuing a conciliatory line re Donbass, etc. but something changed once he won government.
So what?
See the above that is exactly what your doing.
There’s no husband nor wife for that matter. They divorced in 1991!
GPS is far more accurate these days than in the late 90s. Even though it’s Russia, I think they can figure out where the border is.
I hope people can see in this very thread, how easily nazism flourished in Ukraine.
They – ethnic Russians, convinced the majority of voters in Ukraine to vote for the pro-russian guy, their guy, in a internationally observed free and fair election.
I know this is incomprehensible to you, because in 2014 you corrupted yourself by supporting the violent overthrow of it in order to install a puppet junta, while I was saying like that it would lead to war and ethnic cleansing. But that is how democracy works.
Unlike Zelengsky who charged his opponents with treason and threatened to pass laws that would throw the media in jail once he won, if they weren’t careful during the campaign – then attempted to do so anyway.
gawd you people talk shit
war is about law
always was
always will be
certainly appears he was just another lying corrupt sack of shit. Zelensky neo-nazism was highlighted in Oliver Stone’s documentary, which Big Tech have deep sixed.
LOL
Twostix totally dodged the questions.
If having embassies indicates the recognition of sovereignty then why did NATO still bomb Libya? Because it could. Let’s be real.
No, pointing out double standards is not justifying.
Given the ex-husband.
They were using laser guided munitions. The map was outdated. The bomb hit the area marked. A border has nothing to do with it. You reckon the Chinese wouldn’t have been within their rights to say, Why not check to see if your maps are up-to-date before lobbing 5 JDAMS from a B-2 into that area? Mistakes, malfunctions, nevertheless happen.
Don’t believe your lying eyes!
The notion of a “Just War” goes back to around the 14th Century.
Never helped the peasantry and others of that ilk.
People have been fighting over the Ukraine for centuries as well.
And young teens have been going to war for, like, forever.
I wonder who benefits form this Russian invasion of its neighbour?
Not the civpop. In either country.
As Dover pointed out earlier in the thread, there was provocation to Russia.
I don’t think we should have bought into it by sending weaponry thus picking a side.
But my opinion, like everybody else’s on the thread, doesn’t matter in a war a long way away.
Perhaps some posters should stop getting their underwear in a twist.
Perhaps a dedicated thread?
Somewhat like the three Dover has already put up?
What a good idea.
No Tim. You’ve never explained it. You’ve stated it sure. But you’ve never explained how it works in this instance.
If disease is contagious then a doctor office is the most dangerous place you can be. On the planet.
Licking the floor of a melting down nuclear reactor would give you better odds.
Being a junior officer in the Battle of the Somme was more conducive to longevity.
I’ll repeat- even though you’ll ignore it because let’s face it, you’re a pathological liar – being in a doctor office gives you simultaneous exposure to lots and lots of pathogens.
Do you understand what simultaneous means? Do you understand why it changes everything when it comes to the risks of visiting a doctor (assuming diseases are contagious)?
If it’s sufficiently safe to justify any kind of visit to a doctor then literally every other action that exposes you to sick people germs must also be sufficiently safe. This is true for the same reason that if it’s safe to drink 10 litres of coke at once, then it’s safe to drink it over a year.
Now I look forward to your next response which will be to completely ignore the part about simultaneous exposure and instead to say:
“Nothing is binary
Except when I say so.
Figures says everything is binary.
Except that he doesn’t.
Therefore Figures is wrong.
QED”
C.L. has a piece on Murray’s Pub Test with Scummo last night.
I had a look but soon realised I can’t tolerate listening to the man or stomach his preacher face delivering down homie platitudes.
Quoting Zipster quoting the Times of India referencing USA “federal data” on funding the WIV:
Uhuh.
And how much is the damages bill for covid so far? Trillions of greenbacks?
And what was it the Lancet reported, roughly 18million excess world deaths over two years?
That’s before we put a dollar figure on the value of our rights of free movement, free trade, and free association.
But the threat reduction is A-Okay, sarge!
I almost liked them better when they were building Terminators.
Needs to be reposted again. Russia’s relative poverty is actually a human tragedy. Epic!
Figures:
The video/transcript for your 1052pm post.
Interesting.
Bruce in W.A.
That’s tough luck, Bruce.
You’re allowed to vent – do so.
Yanukovych won the Presidential election in 2010 with a slim majority. His pro-Russian stance was preferred to his competitor’s pro-Europe stance.
The Russians in the Ukraine make up about one third of the population, they aren’t the majority, so Yanukovych appealed to a larger group of Ukrainians than just the ethnic Russians.
Oliver Stone’s “Ukraine On Fire” documents that benighted county’s sad recent history.
After some advice.
I just went out to put the bins out.
Two Council “Workers” resplendent in HiVis are methodically inspecting all the recycling bins on the other side of the street, opening them and taking notes on the contents. Spending about 2-3minutes per bin.
So not just a cursory look, actually getting into the details of what is in the recycling!
Who is paying for this spying?? Can they even do that??
Who should I tip off for this obscene waste of money and invasion of privacy – suggestions welcome!