Open Thread – Wed 15 Nov 2023


The Beach at Sainte-Adresse, Cluade Monet, 1867

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Rockdoctor
Rockdoctor
November 16, 2023 8:06 pm

Seems like he is working at cross purposes. If you employ AI then you probably don’t need to employ people. But then you have to sack members of your usual voting block.

Whoa, didn’t we go her with Robodebt??? Till the technology catches up lets leave it to writing flawed essays for people and answering dumb questions.

Mark from Melbourne
Mark from Melbourne
November 16, 2023 8:08 pm

Not sure what the Seth Efricans were thinking when they chose to bat. Surely, with the prospect of Duckworth-Lewis in the air, you want to be chasing? At least you know what your target is over-by-over.

Might just have dropped this one on that call.

cohenite
November 16, 2023 8:08 pm

Net Zero’s inevitable destination is returning us to unheated 19th century huts.

Jane Austen wrote the best literature ever in one of those.

cohenite
November 16, 2023 8:10 pm

Starck’s finished; he just bowled a ball 2 meters outside leg stump 3 meters above the batsman’s head.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 8:12 pm

She was informed going to be deported to Gaza.

Good.

cohenite
November 16, 2023 8:12 pm

Typical Starck over: next ball unplayable. Then a 4.

rosie
rosie
November 16, 2023 8:15 pm
Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 16, 2023 8:17 pm

Max at 5:09.
Now that was funny.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 16, 2023 8:18 pm

As we’ve known pretty much from day 1, J6 was a setup.

Yep.

Video Shows Ray Epps Appearing to Surveil Baked Alaska During Nov. 2020 ‘Stop the Steal’ Rally in Phoenix (10 Nov)

A recently recovered video from a “Stop the Steal” rally in Phoenix after the 2020 election shows Ray Epps appearing to surveil Anthime Gionet, also known as “Baked Alaska.”

In the second installment of Truth in Media’s series on the “curious case of Ray Epps,” host Lara Logan dug deeper into Epps’ background as an Oathkeeper in Queen Creek, Arizona, which coincidentally is the very same town Gionet is from.

Not at all a glowie, no sirree.

Real Deal
Real Deal
November 16, 2023 8:18 pm

Too busy to scroll back but the Mocker has a great article slamming Cate Blanchett. Someone ought to post it. It’s too good to read just once only….

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 8:18 pm

deKock gonski. Oh dear.

Unless Klaasen does something Maxwellish, game over.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 8:23 pm

Jaapies 3/22. Markram gone.

The saffers now have to pray for rain, despite choosing to bat first.

For a match with a result, both teams have to have 15 overs bowled to them. If it pisses down and nothing more can be done, the abovementioned jaapies will go on to the final because the finished above the Alintas on the table.

Drama beckons.

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 16, 2023 8:23 pm

Chloe Shorten has a piece in the Hun:

My journalism lecturer once said to our class that there are three sides to every story “yours, mine and the truth”.

This maxim is on high rotation at our house as we try to talk to our kids about war.

Families across the world are assaulted with a volume of misinformation I’ve never seen. Having navigated three kids through two federal election campaigns, I know first-hand the impact of online misinformation on kids.

Sometimes people share content that’s just wrong accidentally – not vigilant enough about the source for example.

But that doesn’t make it benign.

Misinformation is a threat to children’s wellbeing, to community safety, to social and economic stability, to democracy.

Disinformation on the other hand, is deliberate. It is curated and intended to cause division, and spreads with speed across apps and platforms, particularly by young people who use no other sources of information.

A 2022 survey found that “14 per cent of respondents reported knowingly sharing misinformation, and that these respondents were more likely to also report support for political violence, a desire to run for office, and warm feelings toward extremists.” Frightening.

In this current geopolitical upheaval, young Australians are on apps sharing horrific ‘frontline’ footage – actual and doctored.

But in the age of generative AI, how do we know what’s real and what is a lie?

Parents are struggling to sift through what may be propaganda that could radicalise their child. AI has undermined the old adage ‘believe half of what you see and none of what you hear’.

Misinformation about the conflict in Gaza and Israel has surged at the same time as online platforms cut staff who moderate content and water down related policies.

There is little accountability for the consequences of wrong information.

News outlet AFP’s fact checker is investigating shared clips of the conflict. Using reverse search techniques, they identified old videos being shared online as current footage – not just old but fake.

Game developer Bohemia Interactive made a statement saying how disheartened they were to see some of these videos were actually clips from their game Arma 3.

You read that right. Computer-generated imagery of rocket fire is being passed off as actual scenes from a war zone.

I suspect we are at a tipping point though. Online offerings certainly show us the inherent value of quality journalism and research.

Perhaps it is time to push back hard on harmful risky ‘live sources’ and ‘citizen journalism’ created for the purpose of getting TikTok or Insta famous.

We need to give our kids tools to check facts and fight for the veracity of their information. We have to explain to them to check before they post or share.

And, yes, the adults in the room also need to up their game and know when and how to question what we send and are being sent.

In the absence of rigorous media literacy training in our school curriculum and with limited regulatory guardrails, the best parents can do is tell their kids when it comes to online reportage is “check the source!”.

I am guiding my own to read news sources I’ve come to trust even where they have a slight bias or perspective – global news outlets like AP, Reuters, AFP have proved their integrity in resisting sensationalism.

For almost a decade my family has also relied on research by Harvard University’s Pew Internet Research Centre about how to spot disinformation and propaganda.

I get that this may not be your average dinner table conversation but it became a necessity in our house when Facebook and Twitter promulgated truly distasteful disinformation about someone we know and love.

I’ve been up close and personal. I visited families at a Melbourne mosque after the Christchurch massacre and covered my head in a sign of respect, as I would in any place of worship that it was customary.

Next minute, campaign materials and Twitter trolls claimed I had submitted to Sharia Law by doing so.

The election campaigns were particularly toxic with Facebook running all sorts of untruthful ads against my husband – and opposing politicians too. Facebook wouldn’t take them down during an election because, they argued, the platform is not ‘a publisher’.

While the Australian Electoral Commission couldn’t act because there are no federal ‘truth in advertising’ laws for elections in Australia.

Over the years I’ve been asked my view on hate posting and trolls but have chosen not to comment knowing there is little public sympathy for politicians of any stripe and less if their families complain.

I’m experiencing an upsurge in parents contacting me, desperate for resources to help them help their kids discern fact from fiction.

We know from the tragedy in Christchurch what internet rabbit holes can do to incite violence.

Likewise, fact checking right now isn’t about curtailing free speech, it’s about calling out the anti-Jewish tropes that are bubbling up in front of our children’s eyes.

The Australian Code of Practice on Disinformation and Misinformation framework doesn’t improve accountability and transparency. It was drafted and overseen by the tech industry itself, so there are insufficient incentives to improve their products. In other words, they mark their own homework

In what is undoubtedly one of the challenging portfolios of these times – from telco outages, and platform safety, to the NBN, ABC and Australia Post – Communications Minister, Michelle Rowland is taking on the boa constrictor in the room with a proposed Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation Bill.

Not an easy path in the era of fear of government laws clashing with parents who are hard wired to shield their kids from harm.

Perhaps it’s better named as the anti-child radicalisation bill.

Our kids are at the mercy of forces whose agenda is unclear, who know our laws and who know that oversight is yet to catch up.

Chloe Shorten is a writer and chair of the Centre for Digital Wellbeing

FMD what a turgid dingleberry of an article that is. Gets her news from Reuters, weren’t they the ones that had a photographer on the ground amazingly at the exact time shit went down on that horrible day?
She sez it’s all for the kids. I think she wants dissenting opinion to her idiot husband’s party policy to be silenced.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 8:24 pm

Too busy to scroll back but the Mocker has a great article slamming Cate Blanchett. Someone ought to post it. It’s too good to read just once only

I posted that, several times.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 8:25 pm

Know don’t go posting War and Peace, that’ll rude.

miltonf
miltonf
November 16, 2023 8:28 pm

FMD what a turgid dingleberry of an article that is. Gets her news from Reuters, weren’t they the ones that had a photographer on the ground amazingly at the exact time shit went down on that horrible day?
She sez it’s all for the kids. I think she wants dissenting opinion to her idiot husband’s party policy to be silenced.

yep these loathsome scions of the marxist establishment believe they’re born to rule. And what the buggery is the Centre for Digital Wellbeing?

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 8:29 pm

Jaapies 4/22.

Hazlewood, at the very back end of his career gets their No. 3 at second slip.

Almost 12 overs gone. The saffers are running at less than two runs per over.

‘Diplomatic immunity’ indeed.

Tom
Tom
November 16, 2023 8:30 pm

I think I’ve just figured out how the Incredible Luigi’s prime ministerial career will end.

Apart from being a lifelong activist, Luigi is a weak little man.

The Slovenian Hag has figured out the next Liars parliamentary leader will probably lose the next election and she doesn’t want to be the bunny.

Acting PM Richard Marles is the only adult left in the room, so he’ll be the bunny and will retire on the proceeds of his massive super payout in 2025 after the Liars are thrown out.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 8:31 pm

Seth Efrica have been a good team throughout the tournament. We shat in our nest by losing the first two games.

miltonf
miltonf
November 16, 2023 8:31 pm

A sort of Australian Chelsea Clinton.

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 16, 2023 8:32 pm

A sort of Australian Chelsea Clinton.

Chortle. Well played sir

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 8:33 pm

Jaapies 4/22.

Funny as.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 8:37 pm

Outside of Q d Kock, Klaasen an Miller are the two best batsmen. Let’s see if they can cobble a score,

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 16, 2023 8:40 pm

Finds Matthew Hayden talking absolute tripe, clicks the mute button.

Arky
November 16, 2023 8:41 pm

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Nov 16, 2023 6:33 PM
Mate of mine copped it in the neck for selling the family farm to the Saudis. He pointed out coldly that he had received NOT ONE tender of Australian money.

..
Gidday Zulu.
In the olden days a bloke could work his way up into owning a property. At least in the dairy business.
Farms had quarters for a single youngster and a house for a married man.
These men could learn the business and although the wages were low, there was a track to getting at least a share in a property through years of hard work.
How would a person who was keen on farming get there now, other than via family? And how many farmers sons actually want to do the work?
The destiny for agricultural land is large agribusinesses owned by wealthy people from overseas.
Which I reckon is a shame.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 8:44 pm

In There Should Be More of This news (the NT News):

A drunk man who tried to crack on to a Territory woman by threatening to bash her boyfriend and rape her has called for leniency after she responded by attacking him with a bar stool.

Standard night at local establishments in this part of the world.

Loretta Audrey-Faye Chumbley pleaded guilty in the Darwin Local Court on Thursday to an aggravated assault at the Berry Springs Tavern earlier this year.

Chumbley’s lawyer Brooke Houen said the 27-year-old fly-in-fly-out diesel fitter was at the pub on a Saturday night in March when she was approached by a drunk stranger.

Ms Houen said the man tried to pick a fight with Chumbley’s boyfriend, before attempting to put his arm around her and take a drag of her cigarette.

Chumbley tried to de-escalate the situation by going into the bar to get drinks but when she returned the man told her: “I’ll bash your boyfriend and take you home and rape you”.

Again, standard. Berry Springs is about 35 minutes out of highly-cultured Darwin.

The court heard she went to the table, picked up a bar stool and smashed its legs over his skull — leaving him with a round hole in his scalp and a concussion.

Chumbley then “dragged him around the ground” until her friends pulled her off.

PHRASING.

Despite being left with a permanent scar from the assault, the man said he did not believe locking Chumbley up would help her rehabilitation and urged the court to impose a non-custodial sentence.

This is pretty good. Finally, someone said ‘it’s my fault’ rather than usual spiel about falling into the wrong crowd, drug abuse, I was too pissed and so on.

She got a suspended sentence and walked. Mind you – this may have been embarrassment on the part of the bloke, because if the pic of this ‘woman’ is anything to go by, this bloke will be getting the piss taken out of him until he’s in his grave.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 16, 2023 8:46 pm

Acting PM Richard Marles is the only adult left in the room

That’s a heroic observation. He’d have trouble finding his way out of a bouncy castle.

mem
mem
November 16, 2023 8:50 pm

Carpe Jugulum
Nov 16, 2023 7:00 PM
Mem, this took some searching, i hope it helps.

Examples of salutory in a Sentence

Charles Robert Darwin:

False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for everyone takes a salutory pleasure in proving their falseness.

Thanks Carpe. Perhaps my memory isn’t so bad after all!

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 8:54 pm

Finds Matthew Hayden talking absolute tripe, clicks the mute button.

A very ordinary commentator indeed.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 9:00 pm

In There Should Be More of This news (the NT News):

Love it. Keep posting such.

rosie
rosie
November 16, 2023 9:13 pm

I’m surprised they haven’t put a price on pregnancy and labour (by the hour obviously)

We won’t get real equality until we price breastmilk, and treat breastfeeding as work

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 9:14 pm

VicJack Inc may be, just maybe, starting to get the picture (the Hun):

A man has been charged with performing the Nazi salute in Melbourne’s western suburbs. The man is alleged to have made the gesture on Mason St, Newport, in the early hours of last Sunday.

The salute was given outside a home where police had been responding to a noise complaint at 3.50am.

And:

“The 55-year-old Newport man has been charged with perform a Nazi gesture, stalking, and threats to kill,” a Victoria Police statement said.

The charged man has been bailed to appear before Melbourne Magistrates’ Court on January 8.

A long way to go, but better.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 16, 2023 9:15 pm

Could I buy a bottle? No way! I have to go the the government bottle-o. It’s taxed at something like 45%.

Ever noticed whenever and wherever one goes overseas that the grog in other countries is priced less than half what we pay here?

Those Airbus miles for Albo won’t pay for themselves you know.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 9:16 pm

Women everywhere do disproportionate amounts of unpaid or informal work, meaning they generally work longer hours and have less time for rest and leisure than men.

Sigh!

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 16, 2023 9:17 pm

I’m experiencing an upsurge in parents contacting me, desperate for resources to help them help their kids discern fact from fiction.

File under things that did not happen.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 16, 2023 9:19 pm

That’s a bit hard Knuckles. [Phrasing!]

Loretta Audrey-Faye Chumbley’s pic can be seen here.

With a name like that she’s Darwin royalty. As well as having arms worthy of a rigger.

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 16, 2023 9:22 pm

In news that may get monty moist in the pantaloons, Daily Telegraph:

An Israeli supporter has been charged and a carload of flag-waving Palestinian teens dealt with as youth offenders after a concerning clash in North Bondi.

The 19-year-old Israeli supporter was charged with affray and using an offensive implement to commit indictable offence after the incident at a BP petrol station on Old South Head Rd about 10pm on Wednesday.

Police allege the clash began after the Israeli supporter in a Mercedes sedan saw a carload of teenage Palestinian supporters waving flags out the window, and did a U-turn to follow them.

Footage taken from inside the man’s car shows him following the Mercedes through the streets of the beachside suburb, before he allegedly pulled out a hockey stick at the BP petrol station when confronting the four teenage Palestinian supporters.

In a statement, NSW Police said officers “patrolling the area arrived a short time later and separated the groups. No one was injured in the incident.”

“Following inquiries, a 19-year-old man was arrested at a home in Bondi about 12pm Thursday and taken to Bondi Police Station.

“He was charged with affray and use offensive implement with intent to commit indictable offence.

“He was granted conditional bail to appear at Waverley Local Court on Tuesday 12 December 2023.”

Before the Israeli and Palestinian groups came face-to-face and had a verbal confrontation at the BP petrol station, a rock was thrown at the driver’s side mirror of the Toyota hatchback, smashing the glass.

The Israeli supporter then drove away fled to a nearby service station, with the sedan carrying the group of teenagers arriving a short time later.

NSW Police said the four Palestinian teens had also been charged and will be dealt with in accordance with the Young Offenders Act.

Also under investigation is an incident captured on video which saw a food delivery rider sent skidding to the ground, after being cut off by a vehicle following behind the group of Palestinian supporters.

The footage from inside the car captures the hi-vis wearing scooter rider lying on the road at the intersection of Old South Head Rd and O’Brien St.

Also in the car with the Israeli supporter who was charged by police were two women, one aged under 18 and another in her 30s.

One of the women could be heard telling the delivery driver they had captured the crash on video and then yelling at the other car, a GoGet rental vehicle, to pull over.

Police are continuing to investigate.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 9:23 pm

As well as having arms worthy of a rigger

The piece said she’s a FIFO diesel fitter.

Which is probably right, because it looks like she’s been swapping out engines with her face instead of spanners.

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 16, 2023 9:24 pm

Be very wary of rushed legislation.
What level of confidence do you have that there are not nasties deliberately buried in it?

thefrollickingmole
thefrollickingmole
November 16, 2023 9:25 pm

Knuckles

I’ll see the bar stool to the head and raise you 1/2 ear bitten off on the dancefloor.
Our old skipper, Zorba, no one was in any doubt the lady was justified, despite him never stating what had caused her to do it. Hub

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 9:27 pm

A long way to go, but better.

I don’t agree KD. It’s a token law that changes nothing and not far from a thought crime.
More so thay since they let pro Hamas walk free.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 9:33 pm

I don’t agree KD. It’s a token law that changes nothing

So, let them run free?

Don’t get me wrong – I would dearly love VicJack Inc to pinch people wholesale for doing that at pro-Pali demonstrations – but at least they’re starting to clear a low bar.

Mark from Melbourne
Mark from Melbourne
November 16, 2023 9:34 pm

What level of confidence do you have that there are not nasties deliberately buried in it?

Deliberately? I’m 100% confident that won’t be the case. They aren’t that smart under pressure, especially.

I am reminded of a software conference many, many moons ago, where during the QA Keynote, the speaker asked the QA Mangers present if they would board a plane that was developed under their QA standards. Only one hand was raised, that of the QA Manager for what was then IBM OS/2.

Speaker asked was she really so confident in her team? “Yes”, she responded brightly, “I’m confident we’d never leave the gate”.

Yes, I too think this was a put-up job, but it was funny as!

Indolent
Indolent
November 16, 2023 9:35 pm
Alamak!
November 16, 2023 9:36 pm

With a name like that she’s Darwin royalty

a.k.a. Bogan Elite?

Indolent
Indolent
November 16, 2023 9:40 pm
rosie
rosie
November 16, 2023 9:42 pm

Suggestion on extwitter that the no fuel for incubators was a stunt to give hamas time to concrete and tile over tunnel entrances.
Anything is possible in hamasworld.
Mr fafo made it south, even though he’s a marked man.
Probably wore a burka, jic.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 9:43 pm

So, let them run free?

Yes. Then ridicule and ostracise the moron.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 16, 2023 9:48 pm
Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 16, 2023 9:49 pm

I loathe the fakirs and don’t doubt their boundless hatefulness for an instant. I’m just not going to take their hideous porn around with me in my head for the rest of my life.

Ditto.
I don’t need to put my fingers through the crucifixion holes to believe.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 16, 2023 9:49 pm

Tickler, how come Dutchsinse missed the Icelandic eruption?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 16, 2023 9:53 pm

Mr fafo made it south, even though he’s a marked man.
Probably wore a burka, jic.

More likely spangled jocks and a cape.
I have a certain admiration for the guy.
He’s a sharp operator.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 9:53 pm

So, let them run free?

Yes. Then ridicule and ostracise the moron

Okay. How?

This is a serious question. How do you propose to ‘ridicule and ostracise’ this (admitted, no problem) dickhead? How are people going to work out who he is? Facebook?

If so, who’s going to post it on Facebook? ‘Oh my neighbour Barry did a Nazi salute, he lives somewhere in Werribee, quick – everyone work out his name and we’ll shame him on social media’?

The salute was done at ten to four in the morning in the burbs, not at midday in Collins Street.

The only way this will get any traction at all is through the courts – the exact same way all those soccer dickheads got exposed after invading the Olympic Stadium months ago. Name them, use the MSM who will take their pictures outside court and go from there.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 9:57 pm

Also, there was the pretend Nasty who lived in a small Mallee town – Beulah – and who decided to raise and display a swastika from a flagpole in his front yard.

It wasn’t local displeasure that forced him out of the town and back to the smoke. It was publicity – in that case, A Current Affair.

No publicity = no ridicule, no ostracism. Shining a light on it is where it starts – otherwise it just emboldens them.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 16, 2023 9:58 pm

Tickler, how come Dutchsinse missed the Icelandic eruption?

Hasn’t happened yet.
Patience, Sancho.

RÚV have helpfully put up several webcams, like this one. A beautiful day in Iceland!

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:00 pm

The piece said she’s a FIFO diesel fitter.

I doubt that not. LOL

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:05 pm

Yeah Buelah. Kind of half way ‘tween Warracknabeal and Hopetoun.

Did a Silo art thing a few years back. Early 2020. Just before the COVID tyranny.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:06 pm

The one at Brim, just north of Warracknabeal was first. And is still best.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:10 pm

It was publicity – in that case, A Current Affair.

Yep public shamming.

All the restrictions on free speech have predicated on something reasonable .
All those restrictions get used selectively.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 16, 2023 10:11 pm

Sancho Panzer
Nov 16, 2023 9:49 PM
Tickler, how come Dutchsinse missed the Icelandic eruption?

He’s been booted from nearly every ISP … Starlink included . He’s had enough for the time being. He has made the USGS look like clowns. Especially the fat pig, Lucy.

He’s been hacked so many times. Shit hit the fan when he exposed the Direct Energy Weapons in those satellite feeds with Calli fires.

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 16, 2023 10:12 pm

Shit hit the fan when he exposed the Direct Energy Weapons in those satellite feeds with Calli fires.

Which fires?
California?

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 16, 2023 10:13 pm

The fracture is right under the town, Grindavik, that you can see on the webcam. Roughly aligned across the aspect of the camera. Big cracks in the town as the magma has been pushing upwards. The magma is thought to be 300-500m beneath: it hasn’t found its way to the surface yet but there’s been a lot of SO2 fumes, which can only be because the gas is percolating up cracks from the magma below.

If more magma comes up from the conduit that will pop the cork. But there’s a small chance the town will survive if that doesn’t happen and the magma freezes in place underground. IMO still thinks it will erupt though.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:14 pm

Also if he made threats lock him up.

Remember the fuss made over the OK sighn and the people that lost jobs over it.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 16, 2023 10:16 pm

Sancho Panzer
Nov 16, 2023 10:12 PM

If I can find them again. I’ll shall post. He’s basically switching off.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:17 pm

Which fires?
California?

Of course. More rabbit hole lunacy here needed late in the night.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 10:19 pm

Also if he made threats lock him up.

He was locked up.

Remember the fuss made over the OK sighn and the people that lost jobs over it.

I really am not getting our point bespoke. Is it that the Ok sign should be treated in the same manner as the Nazi salute?

Or – is it that one should be allowed to hand out the Adolf salute anywhere, at any time? On a ‘free speech’ basis?

Sancho Panzer
Sancho Panzer
November 16, 2023 10:20 pm

From the Oz.

Labor has capitulated to Peter Dutton’s demands for urgent and far-reaching controls over ­criminals released from immigration detention following a High Court ruling, acknowledging ­serious community fears over those set free.

With the Prime Minister overseas and the government facing one of its biggest political challenges yet, Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles agreed to all of the Coalition’s demands for tougher restrictions over the released ­detainees to ensure the swift passage of the emergency measures

It’s all over for Luigi.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:22 pm

Hamarse are a sideshow controlled by Mossad. Tell me I’m crazy!

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:24 pm

Come on, let’s get the show rolling.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 16, 2023 10:27 pm

Zafiro
Nov 16, 2023 10:17 PM

STFU you MSM consuming moron!

Arky
November 16, 2023 10:29 pm

Or – is it that one should be allowed to hand out the Adolf salute anywhere, at any time?

..
Yes.
For most of my life anyone who threw such a gesture was doing so in mockery of authoritarians: bosses, teachers or politicians who overstepped the bounds of their lawful authority. Often with a finger under the nose to emulate that pathetic little man Adolf.
Why should the rest of us lose such a powerful way to indicate such because a few bozos my do it sincerely?
During the covid crap we should have been chucking a seig heil at the whole bloody lot of them.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:30 pm

He would have been locked up without the threats.

I really am not getting our point bespoke. Is it that the Ok sign should be treated in the same manner as the Nazi salute?

No.

Or – is it that one should be allowed to hand out the Adolf salute anywhere, at any time? On a ‘free speech’ basis?

Yes and we should be free call the clown out.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 10:32 pm

Yes and we should be free call the clown out.

Well, you don’t know who he is.

So you can’t.

Mark from Melbourne
Mark from Melbourne
November 16, 2023 10:36 pm

… and Travis Head, of all people, just about puts the Saffies away with two in an over.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:36 pm

How did A Current Affair find out about that bloke, KD?

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:39 pm

Chill out, Steve.

Like I said upthread, if we want to defeat the Chinese takeover of Australia it will take a joining of forces of very disparate groups. “normal” Aussies like on this blog, Grampians NAZIs,, Lebo bikers and tobacconists, , Sudo and Polynesian gang bangers et al

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 10:47 pm

How did A Current Affair find out about that bloke, KD?

The usual methods, I would imagine.

Do you think ACA would be remotely interested in doing the same thing to a bloke Heiling his way across his front yard at 4.00 a.m.?

Which one do you give a pass to, and which one do you ‘ridicule and ostracise’?

There is a reason Chermany, for all their faults banned anything remotely resembling that salute. Free speech does not include walking into a primary school excursion in a botanical garden somewhere and screaming ‘C**t C**t C**t’ for 20 minutes.

It is offensive, and in this case directly represents a regime that sponsored the murder of millions of people.

If you’re happy with thousands of Muslims Sieg Heiling in front of a synagogue, just say so. Don’t hint at it.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:47 pm

Well, you don’t know who he is.

I would if was in my town.

So I could.

Zatara
Zatara
November 16, 2023 10:48 pm

Diversity is our strength — until the left is feeling its oats, at which point violently-enforced conformity becomes our strength.

– Ace

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 10:52 pm

I would if was in my town.
So I could.

No you couldn’t.

Because this is an unnamed bloke in a ‘town’ of six million people.

Perfidious Albino
Perfidious Albino
November 16, 2023 10:53 pm

KD – sadly, I wouldn’t be the least surprised to find the arrested nazi symbol thrower was making a statement about VicJack inc.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 10:56 pm

I’d wager the Chinese already own this place. It just hasn’t been formally announced.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 10:59 pm

Free speech does not include walking into a primary school excursion in a botanical garden somewhere and screaming ‘C**t C**t C**t’ for 20 minutes.

That would be targeted harassment. All ready covered.

f you’re happy with thousands of Muslims Sieg Heiling in front of a synagogue, just say so. Don’t hint at it.

No and don’t imply I would.

Do you think ACA would be remotely interested in doing the same thing to a bloke Heiling his way across his front yard at 4.00 a.m.?

They would if reported. That is why the new law is bad. Laws are already in place cover harassment, insightment to violence.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 10:59 pm

I wouldn’t be the least surprised to find the arrested nazi symbol thrower was making a statement about VicJack inc.

Agreed PA. Absolutely agreed.

As I mentioned before people triple-piked themselves onto fainting couches, it would be most excellent if VicJack Inc started doing this to people at pro-Pali demos.

I also said that if they did so, it would be clearing a low bar, and that it was a start.

I actually thought it was a no-brainer, and had no idea it would devolve into a second-rate ‘fwee speech’ cooking class.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:01 pm

Do you think ACA would be remotely interested in doing the same thing to a bloke Heiling his way across his front yard at 4.00 a.m.?

They would if reported

Yeah righto. Sure.

Not even Frontline would touch a single instance of that.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:09 pm

I actually thought it was a no-brainer, and had no idea it would devolve into a second-rate ‘fwee speech’ cooking class.

Sigh!

Dot
Dot
November 16, 2023 11:11 pm

Hamarse are a sideshow controlled by Mossad. Tell me I’m crazy!

Yes. That is crazy talk. I will help you out. I will rebroadcast your insanity tomorrow.

Hopefully your desires will be met by the bucketful.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:16 pm

Is done in your own home or at a party as a joke. Some nob or disgruntled spouse reports it. The cops are now obligated to treat it as a crime.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:26 pm

Is done in your own home or at a party as a joke

6,000,000 people shot and/or incinerated. Not hurt feelings, not ‘offended’. Shot, gassed and burnt.

You’re right. Funny stuff. Great joke. Forget everything I said.

On the other hand, anyone that does that in a public place, where other people that person does not know can see it – may be, just may be, a cockhead.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:30 pm

Calm down KD.

Watch a some John Cleese.

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 16, 2023 11:34 pm

Yes. That is crazy talk.

Just trying getting the blog firing. It got a bit sluggish. But yeah man, you know everything..

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:34 pm
DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 16, 2023 11:34 pm

There was a Fawlty towers episode where John Cleese marched around with a finger under his nose pretending to be a Nazi. I don’t think he should be arrested for it.

Laughing at anyone who pretends to be a Nazi seems reasonable to me. Taking them seriously would be rather difficult.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:38 pm

Watch a some John Cleese.

I am extremely familiar with Fawlty Towers, thank you.

Again, you are missing context* – this time, from a TV show produced in 1974 and the current anti-semitic horseshit on display.

*The Fawlty Towers context, in case you were wondering, is that in that episode (titled The Germans) Cleese was taking the piss out of the Germans themselves, not taunting the victims of a 6,000,000-strong genocide.

MatrixTransform
November 16, 2023 11:41 pm

KD … you sound like a 16yo girl

DrBeauGan
DrBeauGan
November 16, 2023 11:45 pm

in that episode (titled The Germans) Cleese was taking the piss out of the Germans themselves

No he wasn’t. He was taking the piss out of a certain kind of Englishman.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:45 pm

So…..

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:49 pm

KD … you sound like a 16yo girl

I see the McWilliams Reserve’s kicking in, just in time for the night shift.

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:51 pm

All the switches have evidently been flicked for the day.

Arky
November 16, 2023 11:52 pm

“Springtime for Hitler”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zY1orxW8Aw
..
Illinois Nazis – blues brothers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9thcZ9AzVY
..

Knuckle Dragger
Knuckle Dragger
November 16, 2023 11:54 pm

He was taking the piss out of a certain kind of Englishman

He did it in front of the German guests in the dining room.

‘Hey! Hey! Who’s this then?’ he said, in spite of Polly and the others trying to stop him doing it.

Geez.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 16, 2023 11:55 pm

This is precisely why even the 2 State Solution just will not work. Remember the call for “from the river to the sea”. The Palestinians want it ALL. If they can, they will take it.

There have been five attempts at a “Two State” solution since the late 1930’s. Israel has accepted each one, the Pali’s have rejected each one, while continuing to demand the total annihilation of the State of Israel.

Arky
November 16, 2023 11:56 pm

It’s funny because there is something camp about Nazis. You know, Ernst Rohm and all that.
Which is probably why we aren’t allowed to mock them anymore.
Not because our progressive overlords seriously think National Socialism is about to make a big comeback.

bespoke
bespoke
November 16, 2023 11:57 pm

This started out as as simple disagreement. It was you who made it personal, why?

It is an unnecessary law.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 17, 2023 12:01 am

Daily Mail.

Blamey Barracks Kapooka: Australian army is rocked as soldier tries to end his life during a training exercise at a shooting range

Suicide attempt puts solider in hospital
Attempt made during weapons training

Zafiro
Zafiro
November 17, 2023 12:01 am

Victoria is a billion dollars in debt or some shit. So where is all the money for all this infastuckcha coming from?

Chinese Credit Card, I would bet my balls.

bespoke
bespoke
November 17, 2023 12:08 am

It is an unnecessary law. Put in place to appeal to ‘progeseves’.

Alamak!
November 17, 2023 12:08 am

There have been five attempts at a “Two State” solution since the late 1930’s. Israel has accepted each one, the Pali’s have rejected each one,

Throwing out any kind of 2 state solution leads to a single state which is either non-democratic or non-jewish majority. Could be some tough choices ahead for Israel and the ME in general.

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 17, 2023 12:13 am

Arky, regarding your comment about farmers son’s “taking on the farm” up thread, it’s not unknown for the mothers of those son’s to do everything they can to discourage those sons…

“No son of mine is going FARMING!!! MY sons are going to be University educated professionals, not FARMERS!!! Funny, they don’t object to a new car every year, private schools for the children, or frequent overseas holidays…

Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
Zulu Kilo Two Alpha
November 17, 2023 12:30 am

Throwing out any kind of 2 state solution leads to a single state which is either non-democratic or non-jewish majority.

It’s also ignoring the simple truth that there has been a Palestinian State since 1947 – it’s called “Jordan.” The Pali’s have followed every swivel eyed loon, who demanded the total annihilation of Israel, from the days of the late 1930’s, when any of the wealthy and powerful Palestinians who advocated sharing the land with the Jews, was murdered on the orders of another swivel eyed loon – the Grand Mufti of Jeruselum. He who had tea and bikkies in Berlin, with Adolph Hitler.

H B Bear
H B Bear
November 17, 2023 1:03 am

Loretta Audrey-Faye Chumbley

Must have been over wintering up from Radelaide. Certainly not Local Court Material.

Steve trickler
Steve trickler
November 17, 2023 1:39 am

He’s a little twerp you’d his kick head across the road. Don’t start with anti-sematic claims. A lot of people need to hang. He’s a little prick.

Ben Shapiro vs Candace Owens Beef Escalates BIG TIME

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 17, 2023 1:59 am

Wake up to the cricket match being in the balance now. 70 odd needed with 5 wickets in hand. Smiffy will need to lift.

pete of perth
pete of perth
November 17, 2023 2:31 am

39 of 105 balss

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
November 17, 2023 2:48 am

Hello? Is this the AGM of the Grampians Tail Gunner Stanning Club?

> Labor agreeing to “tougher restrictions over the released ­detainees to ensure the swift passage of the emergency measures”.

Any chance this “emergency” was used to justify some hand-wavy vaguely worded legislation that can be used against anybody with only the slightest of justifications and has no sunset clause? Because that’s the sort of thing we expect these days.

rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 3:19 am

Candace Owen’s is emerging, at the very least, an ignoramus on the subject of the middle east.
She tried to claim the ‘muslim quarter’ of Jerusalem was evident of apartheid, as though muslims were forced to live in the equivalent of a (Jewish) ghetto.

rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 3:27 am

Like Alyssa Milano objecting to American Jews saying no ceasefire.
Dumb as a box of rocks.
No ceasefire until all hostages released and hamas has surrendered or the threat to Israel ends.
Hamas are still indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel.
In the meantime aid is flowing into Gaza including fuel.
The Australian. Paywalled.
The head of an Israeli military taskforce overseeing the flow of aid into the Gaza Strip says he’s willing to allow unlimited ­humanitarian trucks into the territory, but a shortage of UN vehicles and shipping bottlenecks are stifling the flow of assistance.
Elad Goren, leader of the civil department of COGAT, a defence agency that liaises with Palestinians on civilian affairs, said a lack of UN trucks was partly to blame for the trickle of aid arriving daily at Egypt’s Rafah Crossing.

rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 3:30 am
rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 3:38 am

Oh and Stew Peters is an unrepentant full blown anti Semite on a par with Jonathan Hinkler.

rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 3:51 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:00 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:01 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:02 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:04 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:05 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:07 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:08 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:09 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:11 am

Gary Varvel. Brilliant.

Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:12 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:14 am
Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 4:15 am
Johnny Rotten
November 17, 2023 4:20 am

Thanks Tom. Some clever toons there. Happy Friday.

Johnny Rotten
November 17, 2023 4:28 am

I never trashed a hotel room or did drugs.

– Sean Connery

John H.
John H.
November 17, 2023 4:37 am

The indigenous activists have been rather quiet. While most of the media, political class, corporations, and so called elites have long endorsed the their argument that colonization, intergenerational trauma, and racism are the primary causes of domestic violence, inter-clan violence, fetal alcohol syndrome, high incarceration rates, obesity, diabetes, kidney failure, rheumatic heart disease, opportunistic infections, sexual abuse, child abuse, unemployment, remote community dysfunction, reduced lifespan, alcoholism, drug addiction, elevated suicide rates, those activists now realise that the broader Australian public has unequivocally rejected their argument and believe indigenous activists need stop blaming everyone else for the behavior of the people they claim to represent.

The Bungonia Bee
The Bungonia Bee
November 17, 2023 5:30 am

Who was it that said long ago (Fraser era?) that “we don’t need a tourist as Prime Minister”?

The Bungonia Bee
The Bungonia Bee
November 17, 2023 5:33 am

Does Nikki Haley support the naming of journalist’s sources, leakers of government matters, and all informants/whistleblowers?

The Bungonia Bee
The Bungonia Bee
November 17, 2023 5:35 am

If Chris Kenny thinks Tony Abbott had lapses of judgement, how does he feel now about his support of the Voice?

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 17, 2023 6:06 am

Does Nikki Haley support the naming of journalist’s sources, leakers of government matters, and all informants/whistleblowers?

Haley will support what ever the GOP establishment tells her to support.

Dot
Dot
November 17, 2023 6:22 am

FOR POSTERITY

Zafiro
Nov 16, 2023 10:22 PM
Hamarse are a sideshow controlled by Mossad. Tell me I’m crazy!

The Bungonia Bee
The Bungonia Bee
November 17, 2023 6:23 am

There’s endless talk on the current affairs shows about how to get out the conservative vote in 2024.
But how can anyone continue to have faith in USA elections? They are gamed at every level, including the string of court cases brought against Trump.
The latest is from Pennsylvania, where hundreds of thousands of votes were moved around!

Dot
Dot
November 17, 2023 6:48 am

What an absolute pisser.

Aaron Clarey’s latest book is #1 in Feminist Theory on Amazon and a best selling book!

A World Without Men: An Analysis of an All-Female Economy

https://a.co/d/6df5ze1

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 7:01 am

Bud Light fun continues.

Anheuser Marketing Chief Out as Bud Light Sales Tank (16 Nov)

Anheuser-Busch’s U.S. chief marketing officer Benoit Garbe is leaving after the company reported a 29% decline in U.S. third-quarter earnings and backlash against Bud Light continues, CNN reports.

Beer Business Daily publisher Harry Schuhmacher says Bud Light sales volume in the July to September quarter decreased 30%, on par with its second-quarter deterioration.

“That tells me that this is quasi-permanent, meaning those customers are just lost forever,” Schuhmacher says, adding he expects AB will see year-over-year declines in that range for the “foreseeable future.”

Righties may be quiet but they do buy stuff. Or not buy stuff when they’ve been insulted, denigrated and ignored.

Cassie of Sydney
November 17, 2023 7:02 am

Candace Owen’s is emerging, at the very least, an ignoramus on the subject of the middle east.
She tried to claim the ‘muslim quarter’ of Jerusalem was evident of apartheid, as though muslims were forced to live in the equivalent of a (Jewish) ghetto.”

I needed an early morning laugh. Owen has always been a vacuous flake, I’ve never liked her much. As for the Muslim quarter, has Owen heard of the “Jewish quarter”, the “Christian quarter” and the Armenian quarter” of the old city? These quarters go back over a thousand years.

My God, she’s a dumb arse. We complain about the intellectual dearth on the left, particularly when it comes to history, but we also have it in spades on the right, idiots, morons and dumb arses like Owen. Idiots need to be called out regardless of what ideological side they’re on.

Cassie of Sydney
November 17, 2023 7:04 am

Yehudit Weiss

Sad and depressing. I don’t hold out much hope for the other hostages.

Roger
Roger
November 17, 2023 7:09 am

Greeting from Otago, NZ!

9C & raining.

Wish you were here!:D

NZ is stunning as always, locals friendly. But it appears to be a country living beyond its means. New government not yet formed, Winston Peters reportedly being courted.

Biggest issue after the economy is the winding back of “co-governance.”

Have met a few obnoxious American Democrats scouting the place out for residence should Trump be elected in 2024. Alas, I didn’t pack my MAGA cap.

Over and out.

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 17, 2023 7:11 am

VP Biden Followed Advice Hunter Sent To His ‘Champ4’ Burner Email

https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/16/vp-biden-followed-advice-hunter-sent-to-his-champ4-burner-email/

What kind of vice president has burner phones?

bespoke
bespoke
November 17, 2023 7:12 am

Owen has always been a vacuous flake, I’ve never liked her much.

Yep.

Cassie of Sydney
November 17, 2023 7:23 am

And the oldest community in the Old City is the Armenian (Christian) quarter.

Further to “apartheid”, after the war in 1947 and 1948, a war which led to the establishment of the state of Israel, Jordan seized control of the Old City and they controlled it until 1967. Under Jordanian rule, the Old City was ethnically cleansed of ALL Jews with the Jewish quarter emptied, synagogues trashed and used as warehouses, Torah Scrolls dumped on garbage pits. NO Jew was allowed to enter and or pray at the Kotel (the Wailing Wall) for eighteen years, until 1967.

I’m not aware of any Israeli government edict since 1967 that has ever cleansed the Muslim quarter or the Waqf (the Temple Mount area) of Muslims.

Perhaps Ms Owen should go back to school.

Megan
Megan
November 17, 2023 7:32 am

Re Candace Owen’s- there’s nothing wrong with strong opinions, as long as they are weakly held. Refusing to hear anything different and digging in to ensure you are right is a red flag of ignorance.

Be prepared to be wrong. Prove me wrong, in fact. A willingness to be wrong is how we learn.
I’m surprised she has such a blind spot on this.

alwaysright
alwaysright
November 17, 2023 7:37 am

A willingness to be wrong is how we learn.

Or in Barney Rubbles words: “It takes a smart man to know that he is stupid, Fred.”

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 7:42 am

I seem to recall people going to jail for 5 or 10 years for this on J6.

6 Capitol Police Officers Injured After Pro-Hamas Capitol Hill Insurrection (16 Nov)

In another mostly peaceful insurrection, pro-Hamas protesters attacked the Democratic National Committee Headquarters while wearing black t-shirts reading “ceasefire”.

The violence motivated by their demands that Israel stop attacking Hamas terrorists led Capitol Police in riot gear to take on the violent terrorist mob.

6 Capitol Police officers were injured as members of the hate groups on the scene assaulted and pepper sprayed police officers.

The attempts by ‘ceasefire’ Hamas supporters to penetrate the building also led to a lockdown of nearby House offices.

Capitol Police officers evacuated members of Congress while fighting to control the mob outside.

Lets see what the Dept of “Justice” does. Probably nothing. With the likewise craven inaction of both our own and the Pommy plod the trust and respect of the they/thems in blue will be reaching rock bottom.

London Police Claim They Were Powerless to Act as Palestine Protesters Stormed War Memorial

(16 Nov)

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 7:45 am
Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 7:51 am

And what do we have here?

Terror tunnel entrance uncovered at al-Shifah Hospital (16 Nov)

IDF Spokesman Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari revealed that the IDF had discovered a tunnel shaft at al-Shifah Hospital in the Gaza Strip during operations at the hospital which Hamas has been using as a command and control center.

What a surprise!

(Be sure to watch the video to the end – it’s only 28 sec.)

Mak Siccar
Mak Siccar
November 17, 2023 7:52 am

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/11/michael_ramirez_replies_to_that_craven_move_from_the_washington_post_to_cancel_his_cartoon.html

An excerpt.

This cartoon was designed with specificity. Its focus is on a specific individual and the statements he made on behalf of a specific organization he represents—their claims of victimhood, and the plight of innocent Palestinians used as pawns in their political and military strategy.

That person is Ghazi Hamad. The caricature of the central figure looks like Ghazi Hamad.

The organization is Hamas. The main figure in the cartoon is labeled Hamas.

Hamad’s words and the innocents bound to him as human shields and their forced martyrdom reflect the official position of Hamas.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that blames Israel for the attack on civilians, but ignores its own complicity in their suffering. It was Hamas that first launched the attack on Israel, continues to use civilian infrastructure as cover, and restricts the evacuation of Gaza civilians from areas which Israel has given advanced warning of strikes.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 17, 2023 7:53 am

I have actually liked Candace, but domestic politics is more her beat.

If she is ill-informed about what is happening in Israel, and its background, then I will be that she has not previously taken a real interest and has casually picked up an inaccurate picture.

The footage of Ben Shapiro calling her out look to have been from a private event where he might be blunter than he would in public. In public, or speaking privately but face-to-face, I imagine he would have been more diplomatic.

shatterzzz
November 17, 2023 7:54 am

Sad and depressing. I don’t hold out much hope for the other hostages.

I think, the hostages have been dead for quite awhile .. once HAMAS realised that, this time around, the emotive blackmail wasn’t working the hostages became a liability .. Any found alive would be witnesses who could, possibly, identify their captors …….!

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 17, 2023 7:57 am

Just asking the inmates of Victoria:

Is the Police Force Service Arm of the Labor Party really called VicPol?

Like MiniTru?

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 17, 2023 8:01 am

Rita Panahi with an interesting suggestion:

The result of the race-based referendum is a clear sign that we need more direct democracy in this country.

There is no good reason why at a federal election we cannot have a plebiscite on consequential national issues; to give the Australian people a say on the shape and direction their country takes on matters such as population, energy, national security and even spending priorities and cultural issues.

The triumph of the No vote against the so-called “Indigenous Voice” shows that there is a deepening divide between mainstream Australia and the political, media, academic and corporate class who heavily backed the Yes campaign.

Too often governments claim a mandate on issues that were never debated or contested.

At the last election we had both major parties pushing daft, economy-damaging, energy-cost-raising net zero policies.

At state level, the groupthink was even more pronounced, with the thoroughly useless Victorian Libs backing Labor on everything from a treaty with the Indigenous population to extreme climate policies with bolder targets than those planned by the Anthony Albanese government.

We may not have much choice at state level but at national level it looks like the Coalition is beginning to find its mojo.

In the aftermath of the failed referendum, the usual suspects in the media are again furnishing the Liberal Party with the worst possible advice.

Leftist wishful thinking masquerading as analysis is being published and shared on the airwaves but thus far Opposition leader Peter Dutton is ignoring the advice.

On Thursday we saw the Albanese government capitulate in spectacular fashion after a week of pressure from Dutton following a High Court decision that led to release of more than 80 criminals, including murderers and child rapists, from immigration detention.

In what is a huge backflip Labor accepted the Opposition’s six amendments, enraging the Left including their unofficial coalition partners, the Greens.

Greens leader Adam Bandt posted this on Thursday: “Labor is dancing to the Liberals’ tune … Labor is letting Peter Dutton write anti-refugee legislation and silencing anyone who tries to stop them”.

But looking beyond this emergency legislation what would be the result if at the next federal election the Australian people were asked about the level of annual immigration they would like to see for the next decade?

You can be sure that a clear majority would want to see less than the current 500,000 figure. In a plebiscite they could be asked to pick between less or more than 200,000.

What about a plebiscite on energy policy such as removing the ban on nuclear power?

And there’s no reason why you couldn’t ask multiple questions including covering cultural issues such as Australia Day or whether the medical transitioning of children should be banned.

On Thursday, Liberal senator Alex Antic’s request to refer his Childhood Gender Transition Prohibition Bill – seeking to ban gender reassignment treatment and surgery for children – to a Senate hearing was blocked by Labor and the Greens.

This is another issue where public opinion is dramatically at odds with the “ruling class’’ of politicians, bulk of the mainstream media, academia and corporate Australia.

“Over the past decade or so there has been an enormous increase in the number of children experiencing confusion about their own gender,” Senator Antic told the Herald Sun.

“I sought to have my Childhood Gender Transition Prohibition Bill referred to a Senate committee to allow evidence from both sides of the debate to be taken in advance of the Bill progressing to a vote. Sadly, Senator Nick McKim from the Australian Greens moved that the Bill not be referred, and his motion was supported by the Australian Labor Party.

“Once again, the opportunity to hear evidence in relation to this critical matter has been shot down by Labor and the Greens.”

Shame on Labor and the Greens and also shame on the Liberal MPs such as Simon Birmingham, Maria Kovacic, Dean Smith and Jane Hume who failed to support Antic or abstained from the vote.

The electorate deserves a clear choice on important issues and under Dutton there has been a resurgence of Liberal values that were abandoned under Turnbull and in Scott Morrison’s last two years.

But they need a clear, consistent line on major policy issues such as energy and immigration as well as cultural issues.

Weakness equals electoral oblivion.

Aside from the well documented phuckwittery of the Greens, Ms Panahi has an idea worthy of discussion.

alwaysright
alwaysright
November 17, 2023 8:06 am

Is the Police Force Service Arm of the Labor Party really called VicPol?

Vikpol, Stasi, Blackshirts, Sturmtruppen, NKVD, SS, Granny bashers, and more …

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 17, 2023 8:07 am
Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 17, 2023 8:08 am

London Police Claim They Were Powerless to Act as Palestine Protesters Stormed War Memorial

The men being remembered ran into the face of rifle and machine gun fire from a well concealed enemy, amidst explosions that tore men anpart, and over the bodies of men killed doing exactly what they were doing. They huddled in trenches and hole as artillery fire rained down for days in end and all of this without being to clock off after eight hours.

What a degrading juxtaposition.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:08 am

I like to think that I am a fair-minded person and I have been thinking overnite that I should apologise to Johanna for linking her name with Hamas. I was referring to a strategy, not the terrorist organisation, but it was still unfair. The point could well have been made in another way. So I am sorry I did that.

To be fair also, she was not the instigator of the vile attack on me on the last OT, top of page 5. It may be that Kevni is Grigs, or someone similar. Or simply a lone wolf.

Johanna comments well here on many issues. I have always said that and still do.

Tom
Tom
November 17, 2023 8:11 am

Perhaps Ms Owen should go back to school.

Like JC, as a red-blooded male, I forgive Candace many of her sins because she’s so good-looking.

But the bigger problem for Americans involved in politics is their ignorance of the world.

Even though it’s now under unprecedented attack from the inside by America’s cultural self-haters, the USA is the only country on earth founded by idealists at a constitutional convention who set out to create a model for human freedom.

Patriotic Americans justifiably consider theirs the greatest country on earth.

The place is a magnet. People from all over the world want to be Americans.

One of the side effects among patriotic Americans is a form of cultural narcissism that breeds ignorance about the world — even among democratic freedom fighters like Candace Owens.

Mak Siccar
Mak Siccar
November 17, 2023 8:14 am

In today’s Oz.

HENRY ERGAS

Calling out Hamas evil demands moral clarity

NOVEMBER 17, 2023

Growing up in the shadow of the Second World War, I knew what an existential battle for survival meant. That war had been no ordinary contest. It was a struggle against an adversary so monstrous that the consequences of its final victory were literally beyond calculation.

The laws of war required the suffering on the two sides to be constantly weighted – painfully, dreadfully, as the bombing of Dresden and the use of the atomic bomb brought home with stomach-wrenching force.

But the enormity of the horrors that would have accompanied the Allies’ defeat ruled out easy judgments. There were no ready scales for comparing the harm a military decision could inflict on innocent civilians against the overwhelming significance of freeing humanity from regimes that were the very embodiment of radical evil.

Sky News host Andrew Bolt says there’s one more example of the Albanese government’s lack of leadership when “Jew-hatred is just… going insane”. Mr Bolt fact-checked Australia Palestine Advocacy Network President Nasser Mashni’s claim that his father was “ethnically cleansed by Jewish terror gangs” in the late 40s. More
When those regimes’ complete destruction finally wrenched a chance of peace out of the rubble of broken cities and the misery of broken lives, the world thought it had drawn the lessons.

The United Nations, US president Harry Truman declared at the organisation’s founding conference, would “provide the machinery which will make future peace not only possible but certain”. And empowered by a newly established International Court of Justice, international law would be given the means to hold those who committed “crimes against the peace” accountable, removing the need for individual countries to wage punitive war.

But the god of our dreams is also the god of our nightmares. From the slaughter fields of Ukraine to the charnel house that is Syria, those aspirations have gone up in flames.

[READ MORE: Anti-Semitism rife as Hamas exploits its human shields | Move for tough laws to stamp out hate speech | ‘Progressives’ have no idea what would be done to them in Gaza | ‘No citizen is safe’ if tide not turned on anti-Semitism | ABC in denial over vile anti-Semitism display | Pope calls Gaza daily but ‘aware of anti-Semitism’ | Murdoch rallying call to condemn anti-Semitism | We can’t turn blind eye to extremist, anti-Semitic hate in Australia | War memorial defaced in anti-Israel hit |]

As the UN descends into irrelevance, the laws of war, which were intended to protect the innocent, are being used to shelter the terrorists who deliberately place them at risk. Hailed as a triumph of civilisation, they have become a tool facilitating barbarism’s relentless advance.

That leaves the people of Israel once again facing the fearfulness, the sense of danger, the perception of the struggle’s ultimate character, which pervaded the memories in which I was raised.

Like Hitler, Hamas has never hidden its genocidal intentions: the opening passage of its Covenant says “Israel will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it”. And in one of his most authoritative texts, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi, its recently deceased spiritual leader, wrote: “The latest punishment of the Jews was by Hitler; the next, with the help of Allah, will come from the Muslims.”

Those goals have been there for all to see; what Hamas proved on October 7 was that for so long as its military capabilities remained intact, it would relentlessly pursue its interpretation of the Koran’s command to “plant terror in the heart of the enemies of Allah”, eroding, to the breaking point, the viability of Israelis’ daily lives.

None of that implies the Palestinians have no grievances; but the Germans had their grievances too. It was, for example, undeniable that there were large German majorities in both the Sudetenland and Danzig, the crisis points of 1938 and 1939. When the Nazis demanded those territories, their claims were, much like Hamas’, couched – and this was the pretence – in the respectable language of self-determination. The London Times, in endorsing appeasement, had no difficulty in describing them as “justified by ethics and policy”.

It was, however, a grotesque illusion to believe – as the appeasers did – that because no “government with the interests of its own people at heart would expose them to the horrors of war”, a territorial concession here, a bit more power there, would avoid “the ultimate evil of a general conflict”. For the Nazis’ goal was never a greater share of the pie; it was, exactly like the Islamists, to inaugurate, over the charred bodies of their adversaries, a new millennium.

Moved not by want but by hate, they had no real interest in agreements, regarding them as mere tactics, all the better to subjugate the enemy. Hamas, which believes “Jews, who are by their nature liars, cannot keep a contract”, has felt free to breach every agreement it has ever entered into; the Nazis’ ethics, if one can call them that, were no better.

Confronting them required moral clarity – the moral clarity to distinguish radical evil, which endangers everything that is decent in this world of ours, from ordinary enmity. Instead, the appeasers, by conjuring a moral equivalence between victims and executioners, sowed the confusion that made the cataclysm all the more certain.

Today, moral confusion yet again fills the air. And our government, far from correcting the confusion, compounds it – by repeatedly claiming, for example, that Israel, as a democracy, should be “held to a higher standard” than its adversaries.

It is, however, surely obvious that the demands of morality do not depend on the nature of a regime: to believe the Holocaust was any less of a crime because it was committed by a dictatorship is so plainly contrary to moral principle and international law as to be absurd.

But the “higher standard” claim was never intended to withstand intelligent scrutiny. A weapon disguised as a platitude, it smuggled in a double standard: one for Israel, another for Hamas.

And by transforming the virtue of being a democracy into a vice, it served to justify the single-minded focus on Israel, which obscures, if it does not entirely occlude, the atrocities Hamas commits day after day, including by indiscriminately shelling Israeli homes, schools and hospitals. The babies in the hospitals of Gaza, who are the unintentional victims of a legitimate military operation, count; those in the hospitals of Israel, who are the intentional victims of terrorism, don’t.

No less egregious is the constant pairing of vicious anti-Semitism with the taunts some Muslim women have experienced for wearing hijabs.

Those taunts are utterly despicable; but an abyss separates their severity from the menaces that have forced the Jewish community to guard creches, schools and synagogues from potentially deadly attack. To pretend otherwise is not merely foolish: by placing murderous rage on a par with ordinary stupidity, it trivialises – and hence excuses – the Jew-hating fury that disgraces our streets.

The government argues that it is being even-handed, so as not to deepen current divisions. But its lack of clarity has the opposite effect: by relentlessly blurring the line between right and wrong, it gives Hamas’s supporters a legitimacy they do not deserve, fuelling the radicalisation that is tearing us apart.

In the end, national unity demands moral direction, not moral equivocation. So too does our ability to face the future, for the unhinging of the nation’s moral compass doesn’t merely extinguish the courage to speak the truth: it erases the courage needed to see it. In a world that is far from being at peace, and where devastating cataclysms are not simply the painful memories of the old but looming threats to the young, that doesn’t just blind – it kills.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:24 am

I think I would prefer to leave debate to the ongoing political system approved electorally rather than be ruled by Referendum. OK if the Referendum yes vote is for something that is good for the country, but not so helpful if it restricts good and needed political action (as in the GST for example, or as it would if in the Voice yes had prevailed).

Also, Rita’s idea may work for one key policy issue to be put to the people, but if a raft of them were then the debate could get quite muddied in the electoral fray.

However, I’m agnostic about it. Convince me otherwise and I might join you.

Parties already use polling to determine the public mood.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 8:26 am

I’m amused that the biggest demonstration in Washington DC’s recent history didn’t make the front page of the Washington Post.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:30 am

Growing up in the shadow of the Second World War

Interesting that Ergas prefaces his piece with this. As a War Baby, my childhood was lived in the great shadow of that War too. Only when I was ten, in the early fifties, did a more hopeful and happy zeitgeist arise, not so much in Britain but with the start of ‘the long boom’ in Australia it was a lucky time indeed to reach adolescence and become that new thing – a ‘teenager’.

bespoke
bespoke
November 17, 2023 8:34 am

Un convincing.

Cassie of Sydney
November 17, 2023 8:38 am

London Police Claim They Were Powerless to Act as Palestine Protesters Stormed War Memorial”

The other day I was castigated here when I wrote that the UK has fallen.

You know what, I’m right, the UK has fallen.

bespoke
bespoke
November 17, 2023 8:41 am

If she is ill-informed about what is happening in Israel, and its background, then I will be that she has not previously taken a real interest and has casually picked up an inaccurate picture.

She said she has many ‘ex’ BLM on her staff. Who is influencing who.
The animosity directed towards the Jews by radical blacks has a long history.

Black Ball
Black Ball
November 17, 2023 8:43 am

Yeah Lizzie I don’t know how Ms Panahi’s idea will work. We had over a year of Teh Voice rubbish polluting the airwaves.
I’m more of electorate by electorate. Take Adam Bandt for instance. The bloke wants net zero, give it to him. Have all the solar and wind hooked up to the one grid completely divorced from other sources of energy.
He wants unchecked immigration, let them roam free in Melbourne. They voted for that, let them have it.

Mother Lode
Mother Lode
November 17, 2023 8:47 am

There is a term you don’t hear often these days: charnel house.

At a time when football players are called ‘heroes’ and matters of passing significance labelled ‘historic’, surely we can have charnel houses after football matches and council elections.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:48 am

Last night, after ‘my show’ – The Late Debate – Hairy kept the TV on to look at Piers Morgan’s discussion panel on Britain’s ‘boat people’ problem, as more and more small boats flood The Chanel towards Britain’s welcoming asylum and welfare system, in a slow-drip invasion of new people not seen since the fifth century continental Anglo-Saxons spied a green and pleasant land.

What a bun fight that discussion was. On the left (some blonde woman) and the right (the redoubtable Esther Crackow) there was agreement that turning back the boats, the ‘Australian Solution’, was the only way. The wittering supposedly-conservative male in the middle said how glad he was that the Rwanda option had just been axed by Britain’s highest court, because fairness, because morality etc. The two women sensibly argued that off-shore processing, even of just a random few, would act as a deterent. Piers Morgan came in with his twopenneth liberal view that it was the approval backlog pf 30K people that was the problem, so speed it up. Nobody said the obvious to that, which was that a sped-up approval process would simply increase the numbers attracted by a quick entry.

Sugar on the Table is a phrase they have yet to learn.

I was born in Britain and love the place. So sad to see it being overwhelmed by cultures that will change it irrevocably. The glorious Esther K is a stunning example of how that doesn’t have to happen; but she is not Muslim.

Top Ender
Top Ender
November 17, 2023 8:51 am

Your dosh at work:

Taxpayers will fork out about $180,000 a month to electronically track 84 convicted criminals released from immigration detention as Labor scrambles to ensure community safety.

Of the 92 asylum seekers identified by the federal government as being impacted by the High Court ruling that their ongoing detention was ­unlawful, 64 were previously convicted for “very serious” and violent offences, among them murderers, pedophiles and rapists.

Mandatory curfews and electronic bracelets will now be used to monitor the movements of the 84 asylum seekers released so far, under new laws Labor rushed through parliament yesterday.

Daily Tele

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:51 am

The other point is that the ‘full’ and ‘closed’ signs should definitely be up on the Dover coast. Britain is a small island jealously proud of its countryside, which a massive population increase will decimate.

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 17, 2023 8:53 am

Just had a blood test this morning.
They took my precious blood.
No doubt some will end up in a government lab trying to find out why I haven’t had COVID yet.
I’m keeping an eye out for black vans over the next week or so.

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
Elizabeth (Lizzie) Beare
November 17, 2023 8:59 am

Un convincing.

The Oracle Speaks.

What about what?

Dot
Dot
November 17, 2023 9:02 am

What a bun fight that discussion was. On the left (some blonde woman) and the right (the redoubtable Esther Crackow) there was agreement that turning back the boats, the ‘Australian Solution’, was the only way.

The Charnel is short and there is a charnel under the Charnel.

We had/have a few hundred km of sea minimum. Their task would/will be much more difficult.

Wally Dalí
Wally Dalí
November 17, 2023 9:03 am

Speech Night at the Catholic college- all discretionary awards, plus awards for made-up subjects, went to 90% girls. However-
Subject awards-
Year 7 – 2 to boys, 5 to girls. Imbalance solid until boys reappear at about yr 10-
By Year 12 – 8 to boys, 4 to girls.
So, either girls are dedicated swots but get overrun by the boys who kick their heels until about the age they get their P plates, or… the Matriarchy runs the school.

Bruce of Newcastle
Bruce of Newcastle
November 17, 2023 9:05 am

Have all the solar and wind hooked up to the one grid completely divorced from other sources of energy.

Speaking of such things.

[UK] Solar Power Auction Prices Raised By 30% (16 Nov)

As well as the massive price rises for offshore wind, prices have also been increased for solar power

Says a lot that a skint government is forced to raise the subsidy for solar and wind because the operators can’t make a profit on the already enormous subsidies. Meanwhile in India…

India To Increase Coal Production By 60% (16 Nov)

Current domestic production hovers around one billion tonne annually. This increase in output aims to ensure ample supply of domestic coal to India’s thermal power plants, which are essential for the country’s growing energy needs.

Makes Bowen’s green fanaticism a complete joke.

rosie
rosie
November 17, 2023 9:05 am
Indolent
Indolent
November 17, 2023 9:07 am
bespoke
bespoke
November 17, 2023 9:07 am

The sincerity, Elizabeth.

Oracle: the new and rapidly diminishing in its meaning. Like calling all who disagrees with you grigs or bird. Low energy.

Colonel Crispin Berka
Colonel Crispin Berka
November 17, 2023 9:08 am

re: Margoliscomment image

What’s being unmasked is not the identity of the perp but the facade that any anonymity exists at present. The only question is how many people can get your IRL ID from your screen name and whether the answer takes 5 seconds or a week.

And I would have got away with it too if it weren’t for those three-letter kids!

Indolent
Indolent
November 17, 2023 9:09 am
feelthebern
feelthebern
November 17, 2023 9:11 am

The Federalist community has been alluding to a case being put together with the view to get it before SCOTUS at some stage.
The aim is to have the obstruction of justice indictment/charge/conviction universe ended with regards to giving the FBI incorrect or incomplete information.
This has become such a go-to for the DOJ since 2016 & there have been over 200 plea deals entered into based on this since then.
The DOJ is so concerned about it that they have ceased using it in new indictments over the past month or so.
The problem is that Kav & Roberts are flakes in cases like this.
Time will tell.

Indolent
Indolent
November 17, 2023 9:13 am

Of course. When you get away with treason and graft what’s a few mishandled documents?

Report: Joe Biden to Escape Charges for Mishandling Classified Docs

Zatara
Zatara
November 17, 2023 9:15 am

My God, she’s a dumb arse.

Owens made the classic talking head mistake of speaking outside her brief. She is extremely good at debating topics she has been properly prepped for, but like anyone else is weak when they try to wing it.

Attempting to comment on a topic she was ignorant about bit her bigly. Hopefully she will learn from her mistake.

Indolent
Indolent
November 17, 2023 9:16 am

I’m afraid it’s rotten to the very core.

FBI Forced Out Trump Supporting Agents, Claims Whistleblower.

The disclosures state several former servicemen were accused by Jeffrey Veltri, the deputy assistant of the FBI’s Security Division, alongside Dena Perkins, an assistant section chief, of “disloyalty to the United States” after displaying characteristics similar to those of a Donald Trump supporter.

The characteristics are said to have included refusing to wear a face mask, refusing to receive a COVID-19 vaccination, and participating in religious activities.

feelthebern
feelthebern
November 17, 2023 9:18 am

Good summary of the different treatment Biden & Trump received over their docs.

Jeff Carlson
@themarketswork

Long Post. Biden and his lawyers have always maintained that as soon as classified documents were discovered at Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center they notified the National Archives.

This was simply not true. The Biden White House took actions to secure and conceal the existence of classified documents held by Biden long before they admitted that Joe Biden held any classified documents.

It also appears that high-level White House officials actively worked to sort through boxes of documents and took direct action to hide a number of these boxes from the National Archives – and from investigators – many months before they admitted to the possession of classified documents.

On March 18, 2021, Annie Tomasini – Assistant to the President, Senior Advisor to the President and Director of Oval Office Operations – suddenly went to the Penn Biden Center to “take inventory” of President Biden’s documents and material – nearly twenty months before the officially acknowledged timeline began. As Jonathan Turley pointed out, Tomasini was “one of the closest aides to Biden and a close friend to Hunter Biden.

Nor was Tomasini the only Biden official to visit the Penn Biden Center to examine Biden’s documents. The Oversight Committee alleges that the Biden Camp “omitted months of communications, planning, and coordinating among multiple White House officials” from their timeline of events.

These officials included Kathy Chung, Penn Biden Center employees, and President Biden’s personal attorneys who were sent “to retrieve the boxes containing classified materials.” The timeline from the Biden Camp also omitted multiple visits from at least five White House employees, including the previously mentioned Dana Remus and Tomasini – along with Anthony Bernal, Ashley Williams and an unknown staffer.

These “visits” took place in May, June and October of 2022 to access and secure what were purportedly personal items of President Biden at Penn Biden Center. More importantly, no one knows where these documents are – or what was actually in them. As House Chairman James Comer notes, “To date, the White House has not disclosed what was in the boxes Ms. Williams retrieved or where they were delivered.”

Additionally, on the same day that Biden lawyers alerted the National Archives to the existence of classified documents at the Penn Biden Center, Pat Moore, President Biden’s personal attorney, scheduled a FedEx pickup with Penn Biden Center employees.

According to Comer, “a FedEx worker showed up to Penn Biden Center on November 2, 2022, to load the documents and ship them out. In understated fashion, Comer said that he “finds it troublesome that boxes of documents were potentially removed from Penn Biden Center prior to NARA’s arrival and assessment.”

In January 2023, President Biden’s personal attorney, Bob Bauer, released a statement that included a timeline of events that inexplicably began on November 2, 2022, with the “unexpected discovery” of Obama-Biden records at the Penn Biden Center.

The timeline from Bauer & Biden was incomplete and misleading. It omitted months of communications, planning, and coordinating among the multiple White House officials, Ms. Chung, Penn Biden Center employees, and President Biden’s personal attorneys to retrieve the boxes containing classified materials.

Bauer’s timeline also failed to disclose the FedEx pickup that happened on the morning of November 2nd. Yet another Biden/Government coverup. Done as Trump is being prosecuted by Biden’s DOJ for what are likely lesser offenses.

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